AA has done well and looked like a creative in the middle which we lacked. Other than that I cant see what the Jan signings brought us at all, but that could be because they havent featured a great deal. Perhaps this will change under new management and we'll see what the likes of Nego and Koc can bring to the table?
I would bet my entire net worth on Thuram conceding a hell of a lot more than Hamer/Alnwick have if we replayed the season. This is not digging Thuram out but he has been assessed by many and is at an ENGLISH Conference level, he may be good at shot stopping but that does not make him good enough for this league. Ben Hamer is wanted by clubs in our league and the Premier League, i think these pro's know more than you do about quality of keepers.
Nego & PP are permanents and perhaps for the future yes - how were they to help Powell? we would be in the same position with or without them - they mean nothing to CAFC first team as it stands, maybe in the future they will.
Reza - Missed chances, looks the part in his youtube videos for Iran, but he is no better than what Church is doing, putting in effort with no end product, and occasionally Church does have an end product. Reza needs more time for a proper assessment, but he's not scored or set up any goals, I don't think.. something Kermorgant was doing with the same team around him.
AA - Quality but only playing in glimpses, he was signed nearing the end of the Championship season without full fitness. He plays game in the second gear because if he steps into any further gears he will be in a heap struggling for breath.
We are in no better position with all of these. They have not been picked out to help us, you are disillusioned if you think these are what we need. Reza maybe, but with experience, AA maybe, but with fitness. Neither of them have these attritributes yet.
These players have been pushed our way for their individual reasons that benefit the wellbeing of RDs network, RD pushes players about within his network and buys players into his network, they have not been cherry picked to save us.
For me he is wrong. I support a football club, not a project. It's immaterial if it's a successful business project.
Dictionary definition of project 'something that is contemplated, devised, or planned; plan; scheme'.
Surely we had a project to get us out of League 1, no objections to that project was there?
I'm sure Morts will reply for himself but the difference is that the Division One "project" related exclusively to CAFC. This project, for better or for worse, relates to a network of clubs across Europe, of which we are just one. That is a really important difference. We may differ in opinion of whether it will work but we should never forget that that is what it is.
But is there necessarily a difference, except in a positive sense? Many investors will own a number of companies around the world, and will be keen for them to take advantage of those ties where they can, without in any way compromising their individual identities.
At an extreme, most big stock-exchange investors will 'own' any number of companies without having any operational input at all.
Clearly others will want a much closer tie-up, so only time will tell, but I am not sure that it is possible to extrapolate on immediate actions that he has taken in an attempt (successful or otherwise) to solve a perceived immediate crisis and conclude that this is how things will always be.
It is perfectly plausible that he wants Charlton to be a unique and successful club, with unique advantages as part of a group. Not least because this is what he keeps insisting (didn't he have some phrase about 'which or your children do you love most?').
All depends where you draw the line. Personally I see it as very different to a self contained project where the investors may have other, unrelated, business interests. Despite the fact that players and managers come and go I've remained loyal because I identify with the club. If that now becomes an outpost of a football empire and the players we have may be shuffled out or new ones might be shuffled in and managers might be shuffled in then I immediately feel disassociated. I appreciate that I'm maybe a outlier here but where I think people are getting confused by judging its success based on team success. I couldn't give a flying fuck if we romp to the premiership title, it wouldn't change how coldly I feel about it. Football supporters generally and Charlton more than most, are not doing it for fun. Late nights, travel, disrupted weekends. I don't do all this because I get to bask in reflected glory.
It's fair enough, the Belgian owns the club, he can run it like a business and second in staff from his other businesses, but maybe I will start acting like a customer and say, why give up my precious cash and even more precious time to watch a substandard team playing on a substandard pitch in a cold stadium where I consider myself lucky if I manage to buy an overpriced beer in a concrete concourse at half time? On the off chance that some of the dross that weren't good enough for the other businesses flourishes with us? On the off chance that we uncover a diamond from our wonderful academy and it doesn't get snatched away to a more business critical location? As a customer I'd probably say fuck that.
VG this thread is about RD's methods. My point is that he has demonstrated that he interferes with the playing side and places players whether the manager wants them or not. Those players (whether loans or permanent) have clearly not been up to the task with the possible exception of AA. 'Where would we be without these loans' well we could hardly be in a worse position than at the bottom of the league. That position has been 'achieved' with contracted players BUT this thread is whether RD's methods could be right, not whether contracted players are up to the task. That's for other threads.
VG this thread is about RD's methods. My point is that he has demonstrated that he interferes with the playing side and places players whether the manager wants them or not. Those players (whether loans or permanent) have clearly not been up to the task with the possible exception of AA. 'Where would we be without these loans' well we could hardly be in a worse position than at the bottom of the league. That position has been 'achieved' with contracted players BUT this thread is whether RD's methods could be right, not whether contracted players are up to the task. That's for other threads.
You keep quoting me but missing off the 'anyway' part. Changes my sentence entirely. Im not saying that these guys have come in and done wonders, I'm saying that without them we would still be bottom and getting rejected by players who decide to go to our current positional rivals (see Ishmael Miller). But yes, thats for another thread, so we'll leave it there.
Do i agree with us being an owners number 2? No. But as we are, i don't see a massive deal with us getting a few extra players on an already thin squad.
A number of Lifers have pointed to the league position of Liege as 'evidence' that RDs methods can work. What about the other clubs in his stable? None of them are tearing up their divisions. It is therefore quite conceivable that it is as much good fortune as brilliant planning that sees Liege where they are this season. My second point is that no-one can claim both that his method of swapping players from clubs show a canny involvement in the particular club and at the same time that he doesn't try and dictate who plays. Is anyone seriously suggesting that he lumped us with half a dozen players and was totally indifferent whether Powell played them or not? Did he bring them over here just to allow them to improve their English? No he brought them so that they could play and he could either flog them as first teamers or could flog our own players if he could get the imports into the side in their place.
Consider those given to us. Thuram. Far inferior to Ben Hamer. Reported to have been considered as conference level and he has actually played for the first team. If Thuram had been selected once Ben Hamer was fit does anyone think Ben would stay?? Nego, Anil Koc and Polish Pete. I've not seen any of them play but the coaching staff have and if they had thought they would have been better than anyone we were already playing they would have been regulars. Let's hope their English is coming on a treat. That leaves Reza and Astrit. Already fans have summed up Reza. Runs around a lot, falls over even more. Ah! but he scored for Iran midweek I hear. Yes - against Guinea and in a 2-1 defeat! Not exactly going to shake the world are they?
That leaves Astrit. Bags of skill, great strike on him but after 30 minutes was at walking pace. Clearly not going to be tracking back on his opposite number anytime soon. And he is the best 'given' to us. I don't 'blame' any of these players. I'm sure they want to do their best but why are they here? What have they brought to CAFC that as improved our performances? Of these imports only two started last night and neither completed the 90 minutes. Not inspiring is it?
His other teams are in pub leagues. Whats to say he hasn't took them over to gain experience in running football clubs. Not a lot of money to lose or gain at that level….so could be called an experiment.
He inherited CAFC already in a pickle but with the potential to play in the the most finically rewarding league's in the world. Do you really think he's ignorant to this fact? He'd be a pretty shit businessman if her was.
Reza - Played bit parts or out of position so far. And well done in highlighting one game…ignore that fact he scored regularly in a tough qualifying group, including a goal against South Korea, who's defence is made up of a couple of Bundesliga players.
Where we would be without these loans brought in anyway? Christ, even Ishmael Miller chose Yeovil Town over us!!!
Maybe if they'd played four in defence, instead of two, Reza might have had a harder time scoring!
All depends where you draw the line. Personally I see it as very different to a self contained project where the investors may have other, unrelated, business interests. Despite the fact that players and managers come and go I've remained loyal because I identify with the club. If that now becomes an outpost of a football empire and the players we have may be shuffled out or new ones might be shuffled in and managers might be shuffled in then I immediately feel disassociated. I appreciate that I'm maybe a outlier here but where I think people are getting confused by judging its success based on team success. I couldn't give a flying fuck if we romp to the premiership title, it wouldn't change how coldly I feel about it. Football supporters generally and Charlton more than most, are not doing it for fun. Late nights, travel, disrupted weekends. I don't do all this because I get to bask in reflected glory.
It's fair enough, the Belgian owns the club, he can run it like a business and second in staff from his other businesses, but maybe I will start acting like a customer and say, why give up my precious cash and even more precious time to watch a substandard team playing on a substandard pitch in a cold stadium where I consider myself lucky if I manage to buy an overpriced beer in a concrete concourse at half time? On the off chance that some of the dross that weren't good enough for the other businesses flourishes with us? On the off chance that we uncover a diamond from our wonderful academy and it doesn't get snatched away to a more business critical location? As a customer I'd probably say fuck that.
OK then, simple question: the club (just like pretty much every other club) is not currently solvent: it loses £3m/£4m each year. If you do not want the club to be run in this way to save money, how would you like to see it run? Or is your support dependent on the club's directors/banks putting their hands in their pockets to give away £3m/£4m each year?
I'm really not in a position to comment the relative merits of the loan players, having hardly seen any of them.
The key point for me though is not to debate how good they are. It is that they have not been brought here based on the specifications that the manager provided in the run up to the window, concerning which positions should be strengthened, and with what kind of player. So Ajdarevic is by common consent the most promising looking player of the new recruits but he is a central midfielder. Because of the emergence of Cousins and now Poyet, we have a lot of players (some like Pritchard out of form) whose natural position is in the centre, but we have been short of natural wide midfield players. This wasn't addressed by the "network" so Powell got pelters for playing Cousins wide right, got fired, only for the new guy to come in and play Cousins...wide left.
Then there is the keeper. Regardless of how good he is, he was the first one to arrive, and at the time, it seemed like the one position where we had good cover. I don't know what exactly is "wrong" with Ben Alnwick, and unless you do Gary, I'd be careful of assuming anything. What I do know is that Alnwick continued to play and get good reviews from all on here up until the point when he was suddenly shunted off.
And then there is the issue we haven't really talked about on here much. Who is paying the salaries of the loan players? And are they 'adjusted' up or down, depending on whom they came from? The point is that for RD the most satisfying element of these players coming here is that maybe this has reduced the Standard wage bill, thus helping towards some Standard P&L target that he may have set. Or in another aspect of the wages issue, he may be congratulating himself that he brought in "lots" of new players whose combined salaries are less than what he saved on those of Yann and Stephens.
And then there is the issue of Polish Pete. He isn't 'network', yet many ITK people are claiming that significant cash has been splashed on him. Perhaps equal to or more than the amount we got for Yann. Was this the right move at the right time?
So perhaps the question to ask is this. If we were a standalone club, not in a network; would Chris Powell or any other manager, say for example, Dave Jones, bring these particular players in , in order to ensure we avoid relegation, especially if they also knew in advance that they would have to sell Yann and Dale ?
I am not fundamentally against the network vision or principal, but I am using the above examples to illustrate my point: the devil is in the detail.
Personally I think he made a mistake in sacking CP, but these things do happen in football!
I think Riga looks like he has potential and seems to be a good choice. I feel for him actually since it was not his fault that CP was sacked and he is going to get a lot less support than most new managers we have had. In fact the opposite, at a time when we should all be hoping he can fill a big void and keep us up.
I think Kermorgant would have gone anyway.
I have no problem taking players who need experience on loan. From anywhere else it is a loan, from Roland's clubs they are decried as rejects. Think we should give them support at least until they have played a few games. Some will be good and some will not- like loan players are!
Think that there is very little evidence to suggest that we are a feeder club! Actually I think that the idea of trading/ loaning players between teams within a network does have merit (although potential pitfalls)
I do not buy that he is trying to get us relegated! This does not stand up to scrutiny,or logic.
I think it unfortunate that he took over at a time that a Charlton legend was manager of a squad which had not been developed. I strongly suspect that a great deal of the venom aimed at RD would not have happened if this hadn't been an issue.
I think it unlikely that the guy hand picks each squad for each of his six teams! I think that if he a great deal more hands on than other owners however and we are not used to this and it would certainly not be to the liking of many managers.
Quite honestly the stuff we hear from Standard fans is to be mistrusted. He sacked the former Manager, sold some overpaid players and reduced ticket prices- they are now storming the Belgian league, selling out and in next years Champions league! Which kinda vindicates his decisions?! If he is picking their team then he is obviously doing it right!
RD has been here a few weeks - We all need to remember what was going of before he came - We were having a very bad season with a squad that desperately needed development and club in real financial peril. We had experienced a prolonged period of uncertainty and less than committed owners. RD came in, saved us from bankruptcy, stabilised the finances and loaned and sold us way better players than we would have got had the takeover failed.
I hope that over a longer term we all have a different perspective on this man, I might be wrong - however I doubt that I would ever want to go for a pint of IPA with him!
VG this thread is about RD's methods. My point is that he has demonstrated that he interferes with the playing side and places players whether the manager wants them or not. Those players (whether loans or permanent) have clearly not been up to the task with the possible exception of AA. 'Where would we be without these loans' well we could hardly be in a worse position than at the bottom of the league. That position has been 'achieved' with contracted players BUT this thread is whether RD's methods could be right, not whether contracted players are up to the task. That's for other threads.
Has he though? Clearly and understandably he would be reluctant to give money to a manager who has lead the team to five or six glorious victories over a whole season when he (RD) came in, but was willing to provide a few to varnish a clearly threadbare squad. Not once has there been any actual proof he has 'forced' Powell to play the Liege lot, Nego appeared once, Reza a few times, Thuram played only through necessity and AA looks a much better option than the likes of Gower or Pritchard.
We had achieved bottom place under Powell with Powell's players, our form was terrible, our performances awful, you cannot point to an owner reluctant to trust a manager in that position and say he is unfair to be dubious.
I don't recall stating that RD had "forced' Powell to play the Liege lot'. The evidence that Powell didn't seek a number of those sent to us is in the selection process. Does anyone seriously think that Powell was delighted to be sent players who can't even make the bench or can't last 90 minutes when we were/are desperate for quality players NOW? No-one will come out openly and say that RD foisted players onto the club but when our own Academy is producing superb players, why take mediocre ones from abroad, even if they may come good in future seasons? We weren't mid-table then but fighting for Championship survival and today the outlook is even bleaker.
Maybe, as VG says, no-one of any quality wanted to come to us but that is no reason to take players who are no help in the present situation.
As for RDs decision to sack Powell, if it had been on performances and results I could have understood but he said Powell was sacked because they "could not reach an agreement over the club's football strategy going forward". Seems to me that RD is more Vincent Tan than Tony Fernandes!!
Personally I think he made a mistake in sacking CP, but these things do happen in football!
I think Riga looks like he has potential and seems to be a good choice. I feel for him actually since it was not his fault that CP was sacked and he is going to get a lot less support than most new managers we have had. In fact the opposite, at a time when we should all be hoping he can fill a big void and keep us up.
I think Kermorgant would have gone anyway.
I have no problem taking players who need experience on loan. From anywhere else it is a loan, from Roland's clubs they are decried as rejects. Think we should give them support at least until they have played a few games. Some will be good and some will not- like loan players are!
Think that there is very little evidence to suggest that we are a feeder club! Actually I think that the idea of trading/ loaning players between teams within a network does have merit (although potential pitfalls)
I do not buy that he is trying to get us relegated! This does not stand up to scrutiny,or logic.
I think it unfortunate that he took over at a time that a Charlton legend was manager of a squad which had not been developed. I strongly suspect that a great deal of the venom aimed at RD would not have happened if this hadn't been an issue.
I think it unlikely that the guy hand picks each squad for each of his six teams! I think that if he a great deal more hands on than other owners however and we are not used to this and it would certainly not be to the liking of many managers.
Quite honestly the stuff we hear from Standard fans is to be mistrusted. He sacked the former Manager, sold some overpaid players and reduced ticket prices- they are now storming the Belgian league, selling out and in next years Champions league! Which kinda vindicates his decisions?! If he is picking their team then he is obviously doing it right!
RD has been here a few weeks - We all need to remember what was going of before he came - We were having a very bad season with a squad that desperately needed development and club in real financial peril. We had experienced a prolonged period of uncertainty and less than committed owners. RD came in, saved us from bankruptcy, stabilised the finances and loaned and sold us way better players than we would have got had the takeover failed.
I hope that over a longer term we all have a different perspective on this man, I might be wrong - however I doubt that I would ever want to go for a pint of IPA with him!
Why is it that every single one of the people who has joined this list since Duchatelet took over make comments that are resolutely pro- Duchatelet ? It really does begin to feel like some sort of organized campaign.
look, I haven't come on here to pick a fight about the merits of CP and the job he done, yet you lot all want to. If I had, I'd be getting dug out for mentioning the same argument thats on 20 other threads.
I respect people have different opinions and this has been rehashed on here countless times, there is no point going over it all again.
CP is no more at Charlton. Rightly or wrongly. Now I support Charlton and not CP and I'd like to discuss the future of our club not its past.
So could you all kindly just "move on"
If you want to discuss the future, and don't want to discuss the merits of Chris Powell, then please don't come out with statements like "[Chris Powell] didn't deliver". Simple really?
Personally I think he made a mistake in sacking CP, but these things do happen in football!
I think Riga looks like he has potential and seems to be a good choice. I feel for him actually since it was not his fault that CP was sacked and he is going to get a lot less support than most new managers we have had. In fact the opposite, at a time when we should all be hoping he can fill a big void and keep us up.
I think Kermorgant would have gone anyway.
I have no problem taking players who need experience on loan. From anywhere else it is a loan, from Roland's clubs they are decried as rejects. Think we should give them support at least until they have played a few games. Some will be good and some will not- like loan players are!
Think that there is very little evidence to suggest that we are a feeder club! Actually I think that the idea of trading/ loaning players between teams within a network does have merit (although potential pitfalls)
I do not buy that he is trying to get us relegated! This does not stand up to scrutiny,or logic.
I think it unfortunate that he took over at a time that a Charlton legend was manager of a squad which had not been developed. I strongly suspect that a great deal of the venom aimed at RD would not have happened if this hadn't been an issue.
I think it unlikely that the guy hand picks each squad for each of his six teams! I think that if he a great deal more hands on than other owners however and we are not used to this and it would certainly not be to the liking of many managers.
Quite honestly the stuff we hear from Standard fans is to be mistrusted. He sacked the former Manager, sold some overpaid players and reduced ticket prices- they are now storming the Belgian league, selling out and in next years Champions league! Which kinda vindicates his decisions?! If he is picking their team then he is obviously doing it right!
RD has been here a few weeks - We all need to remember what was going of before he came - We were having a very bad season with a squad that desperately needed development and club in real financial peril. We had experienced a prolonged period of uncertainty and less than committed owners. RD came in, saved us from bankruptcy, stabilised the finances and loaned and sold us way better players than we would have got had the takeover failed.
I hope that over a longer term we all have a different perspective on this man, I might be wrong - however I doubt that I would ever want to go for a pint of IPA with him!
Why is it that every single one of the people who has joined this list since Duchatelet took over make comments that are resolutely pro- Duchatelet ? It really does begin to feel like some sort of organized campaign.
Personally I think he made a mistake in sacking CP, but these things do happen in football!
I think Riga looks like he has potential and seems to be a good choice. I feel for him actually since it was not his fault that CP was sacked and he is going to get a lot less support than most new managers we have had. In fact the opposite, at a time when we should all be hoping he can fill a big void and keep us up.
I think Kermorgant would have gone anyway.
I have no problem taking players who need experience on loan. From anywhere else it is a loan, from Roland's clubs they are decried as rejects. Think we should give them support at least until they have played a few games. Some will be good and some will not- like loan players are!
Think that there is very little evidence to suggest that we are a feeder club! Actually I think that the idea of trading/ loaning players between teams within a network does have merit (although potential pitfalls)
I do not buy that he is trying to get us relegated! This does not stand up to scrutiny,or logic.
I think it unfortunate that he took over at a time that a Charlton legend was manager of a squad which had not been developed. I strongly suspect that a great deal of the venom aimed at RD would not have happened if this hadn't been an issue.
I think it unlikely that the guy hand picks each squad for each of his six teams! I think that if he a great deal more hands on than other owners however and we are not used to this and it would certainly not be to the liking of many managers.
Quite honestly the stuff we hear from Standard fans is to be mistrusted. He sacked the former Manager, sold some overpaid players and reduced ticket prices- they are now storming the Belgian league, selling out and in next years Champions league! Which kinda vindicates his decisions?! If he is picking their team then he is obviously doing it right!
RD has been here a few weeks - We all need to remember what was going of before he came - We were having a very bad season with a squad that desperately needed development and club in real financial peril. We had experienced a prolonged period of uncertainty and less than committed owners. RD came in, saved us from bankruptcy, stabilised the finances and loaned and sold us way better players than we would have got had the takeover failed.
I hope that over a longer term we all have a different perspective on this man, I might be wrong - however I doubt that I would ever want to go for a pint of IPA with him!
Why is it that every single one of the people who has joined this list since Duchatelet took over make comments that are resolutely pro- Duchatelet ? It really does begin to feel like some sort of organized campaign.
Why is there so much paranoia on this website?!
Actually I agree with you on that. I have seen a few posts that have made me wonder.
I am from Kent and discovered caught football like religion aged 40 so am a latecomer in most of your eyes. However I have now had ten season tickets with Charlton in three Leagues so think that I am entitled to an opinion. Hated Dowie; Jumped up and down when Pardew was appointed ( which I later regretted ) and had no time for Parkinson at all. Like CP and thought Curbs was god like.
It's not that I am resolutely pro RD so much as I don't agree with a lot of things said about the man and some of the players. In a year I may have changed my mind. There are a fair few people on here who are genuine and have similar views.
BTW this is the only forum I have ever joined and I did so because I had been following the site re the takeover. Nothing more sinister I can assure you!
Personally I think he made a mistake in sacking CP, but these things do happen in football!
I think Riga looks like he has potential and seems to be a good choice. I feel for him actually since it was not his fault that CP was sacked and he is going to get a lot less support than most new managers we have had. In fact the opposite, at a time when we should all be hoping he can fill a big void and keep us up.
I think Kermorgant would have gone anyway.
I have no problem taking players who need experience on loan. From anywhere else it is a loan, from Roland's clubs they are decried as rejects. Think we should give them support at least until they have played a few games. Some will be good and some will not- like loan players are!
Think that there is very little evidence to suggest that we are a feeder club! Actually I think that the idea of trading/ loaning players between teams within a network does have merit (although potential pitfalls)
I do not buy that he is trying to get us relegated! This does not stand up to scrutiny,or logic.
I think it unfortunate that he took over at a time that a Charlton legend was manager of a squad which had not been developed. I strongly suspect that a great deal of the venom aimed at RD would not have happened if this hadn't been an issue.
I think it unlikely that the guy hand picks each squad for each of his six teams! I think that if he a great deal more hands on than other owners however and we are not used to this and it would certainly not be to the liking of many managers.
Quite honestly the stuff we hear from Standard fans is to be mistrusted. He sacked the former Manager, sold some overpaid players and reduced ticket prices- they are now storming the Belgian league, selling out and in next years Champions league! Which kinda vindicates his decisions?! If he is picking their team then he is obviously doing it right!
RD has been here a few weeks - We all need to remember what was going of before he came - We were having a very bad season with a squad that desperately needed development and club in real financial peril. We had experienced a prolonged period of uncertainty and less than committed owners. RD came in, saved us from bankruptcy, stabilised the finances and loaned and sold us way better players than we would have got had the takeover failed.
I hope that over a longer term we all have a different perspective on this man, I might be wrong - however I doubt that I would ever want to go for a pint of IPA with him!
Why is it that every single one of the people who has joined this list since Duchatelet took over make comments that are resolutely pro- Duchatelet ? It really does begin to feel like some sort of organized campaign.
Why is there so much paranoia on this website?!
Actually I agree with you on that. I have seen a few posts that have made me wonder.
I am from Kent and discovered caught football like religion aged 40 so am a latecomer in most of your eyes. However I have now had ten season tickets with Charlton in three Leagues so think that I am entitled to an opinion. Hated Dowie; Jumped up and down when Pardew was appointed ( which I later regretted ) and had no time for Parkinson at all. Like CP and thought Curbs was god like.
It's not that I am resolutely pro RD so much as I don't agree with a lot of things said about the man and some of the players. In a year I may have changed my mind. There are a fair few people on here who are genuine and have similar views.
BTW this is the only forum I have ever joined and I did so because I had been following the site re the takeover. Nothing more sinister I can assure you!
Personally I think he made a mistake in sacking CP, but these things do happen in football!
I think Riga looks like he has potential and seems to be a good choice. I feel for him actually since it was not his fault that CP was sacked and he is going to get a lot less support than most new managers we have had. In fact the opposite, at a time when we should all be hoping he can fill a big void and keep us up.
I think Kermorgant would have gone anyway.
I have no problem taking players who need experience on loan. From anywhere else it is a loan, from Roland's clubs they are decried as rejects. Think we should give them support at least until they have played a few games. Some will be good and some will not- like loan players are!
Think that there is very little evidence to suggest that we are a feeder club! Actually I think that the idea of trading/ loaning players between teams within a network does have merit (although potential pitfalls)
I do not buy that he is trying to get us relegated! This does not stand up to scrutiny,or logic.
I think it unfortunate that he took over at a time that a Charlton legend was manager of a squad which had not been developed. I strongly suspect that a great deal of the venom aimed at RD would not have happened if this hadn't been an issue.
I think it unlikely that the guy hand picks each squad for each of his six teams! I think that if he a great deal more hands on than other owners however and we are not used to this and it would certainly not be to the liking of many managers.
Quite honestly the stuff we hear from Standard fans is to be mistrusted. He sacked the former Manager, sold some overpaid players and reduced ticket prices- they are now storming the Belgian league, selling out and in next years Champions league! Which kinda vindicates his decisions?! If he is picking their team then he is obviously doing it right!
RD has been here a few weeks - We all need to remember what was going of before he came - We were having a very bad season with a squad that desperately needed development and club in real financial peril. We had experienced a prolonged period of uncertainty and less than committed owners. RD came in, saved us from bankruptcy, stabilised the finances and loaned and sold us way better players than we would have got had the takeover failed.
I hope that over a longer term we all have a different perspective on this man, I might be wrong - however I doubt that I would ever want to go for a pint of IPA with him!
Why is it that every single one of the people who has joined this list since Duchatelet took over make comments that are resolutely pro- Duchatelet ? It really does begin to feel like some sort of organized campaign.
Why is there so much paranoia on this website?!
Actually I agree with you on that. I have seen a few posts that have made me wonder.
I am from Kent and discovered caught football like religion aged 40 so am a latecomer in most of your eyes. However I have now had ten season tickets with Charlton in three Leagues so think that I am entitled to an opinion. Hated Dowie; Jumped up and down when Pardew was appointed ( which I later regretted ) and had no time for Parkinson at all. Like CP and thought Curbs was god like.
It's not that I am resolutely pro RD so much as I don't agree with a lot of things said about the man and some of the players. In a year I may have changed my mind. There are a fair few people on here who are genuine and have similar views.
BTW this is the only forum I have ever joined and I did so because I had been following the site re the takeover. Nothing more sinister I can assure you!
As for RDs decision to sack Powell, if it had been on performances and results I could have understood but he said Powell was sacked because they "could not reach an agreement over the club's football strategy going forward". Seems to me that RD is more Vincent Tan than Tony Fernandes!!
Is it not obvious? Powell's new contract had a caveat that Jose Riga was to be Dir of Football, something common okay in Europe, and CP as Head Coach (a setup which could have worked given Chris's obvious tactical naivety). CP didn't accept this and hence, given our position, RD felt that he didn't have any other option given that Chris was unlikely to change anything and therefore there was a very big chance that the status quo in terms of results would have carried on until the end if the season.
Far from having our worst interest at heart I do think there's a chance that he took a touch decision, one he knew would provoke such hostility, because it was the best call open to him at the time.
Chris Powell, for however much I regret it didn't work out and however many good & bad times we shared with him, was no managerial messiah.
There are lots of rose tinted glasses being worn cos it was Chris Powell
Disregarding the whole Powell thing for a moment, and bearing in mind the position we find ourselves in the League, have we improved our chances of staying up by selling Yann? So have we got a better striker in? I struggle a little to find Roland right on that decision alone. Personally I do not think Roland is right about very much at all about this club. But I doubt that will keep him awake tonight or any other.
The beauty of the current situation is that there are games coming thick and fast where we can see whether the team develops and that the loan window is still open so there's a chance to improve the squad. Some posters on here write great analysis from both sides of the situation and it is clear that many fans are raw. IMHO the midfield is far stronger with the sale of Stephens and the loan of Ajdarevic plus the emergence of Poyet...and Harriott is back. So one current player from last season one from the academy and one loan...we should get used to that because my guess is that is the shape of things to come. And it is cheaper and quicker than using agents / paying fees to UK clubs. Nothing has changed with our back five with a reserve loan keeper and no real cover for Solly but is he back soon? It is up front where I would challenge this new model for we have not replaced Kermorgant and we are not scoring goals. Signing someone good from anywhere doesn't break the rules - it will enhance the credibility of the model with the fans and the media... But that isn't Duchatelet's agenda. So I will simply state cc Katrien Miere that it will enhance the chances of staying up enabling the club to get on with building and stop the in-fighting. All we are saying is give us a goal!
True but (and yes failed to do so) but it was obvious from the money he was willing to pay for the likes of SWP, Gradel, Miller and all the others we don't know about, that the intention was there.
Personally I think he made a mistake in sacking CP, but these things do happen in football!
I think Riga looks like he has potential and seems to be a good choice. I feel for him actually since it was not his fault that CP was sacked and he is going to get a lot less support than most new managers we have had. In fact the opposite, at a time when we should all be hoping he can fill a big void and keep us up.
I think Kermorgant would have gone anyway.
I have no problem taking players who need experience on loan. From anywhere else it is a loan, from Roland's clubs they are decried as rejects. Think we should give them support at least until they have played a few games. Some will be good and some will not- like loan players are!
Think that there is very little evidence to suggest that we are a feeder club! Actually I think that the idea of trading/ loaning players between teams within a network does have merit (although potential pitfalls)
I do not buy that he is trying to get us relegated! This does not stand up to scrutiny,or logic.
I think it unfortunate that he took over at a time that a Charlton legend was manager of a squad which had not been developed. I strongly suspect that a great deal of the venom aimed at RD would not have happened if this hadn't been an issue.
I think it unlikely that the guy hand picks each squad for each of his six teams! I think that if he a great deal more hands on than other owners however and we are not used to this and it would certainly not be to the liking of many managers.
Quite honestly the stuff we hear from Standard fans is to be mistrusted. He sacked the former Manager, sold some overpaid players and reduced ticket prices- they are now storming the Belgian league, selling out and in next years Champions league! Which kinda vindicates his decisions?! If he is picking their team then he is obviously doing it right!
RD has been here a few weeks - We all need to remember what was going of before he came - We were having a very bad season with a squad that desperately needed development and club in real financial peril. We had experienced a prolonged period of uncertainty and less than committed owners. RD came in, saved us from bankruptcy, stabilised the finances and loaned and sold us way better players than we would have got had the takeover failed.
I hope that over a longer term we all have a different perspective on this man, I might be wrong - however I doubt that I would ever want to go for a pint of IPA with him!
Why is it that every single one of the people who has joined this list since Duchatelet took over make comments that are resolutely pro- Duchatelet ? It really does begin to feel like some sort of organized campaign.
Why is there so much paranoia on this website?!
Actually I agree with you on that. I have seen a few posts that have made me wonder.
I am from Kent and discovered caught football like religion aged 40 so am a latecomer in most of your eyes. However I have now had ten season tickets with Charlton in three Leagues so think that I am entitled to an opinion. Hated Dowie; Jumped up and down when Pardew was appointed ( which I later regretted ) and had no time for Parkinson at all. Like CP and thought Curbs was god like.
It's not that I am resolutely pro RD so much as I don't agree with a lot of things said about the man and some of the players. In a year I may have changed my mind. There are a fair few people on here who are genuine and have similar views.
BTW this is the only forum I have ever joined and I did so because I had been following the site re the takeover. Nothing more sinister I can assure you!
Personally I think he made a mistake in sacking CP, but these things do happen in football!
I think Riga looks like he has potential and seems to be a good choice. I feel for him actually since it was not his fault that CP was sacked and he is going to get a lot less support than most new managers we have had. In fact the opposite, at a time when we should all be hoping he can fill a big void and keep us up.
I think Kermorgant would have gone anyway.
I have no problem taking players who need experience on loan. From anywhere else it is a loan, from Roland's clubs they are decried as rejects. Think we should give them support at least until they have played a few games. Some will be good and some will not- like loan players are!
Think that there is very little evidence to suggest that we are a feeder club! Actually I think that the idea of trading/ loaning players between teams within a network does have merit (although potential pitfalls)
I do not buy that he is trying to get us relegated! This does not stand up to scrutiny,or logic.
I think it unfortunate that he took over at a time that a Charlton legend was manager of a squad which had not been developed. I strongly suspect that a great deal of the venom aimed at RD would not have happened if this hadn't been an issue.
I think it unlikely that the guy hand picks each squad for each of his six teams! I think that if he a great deal more hands on than other owners however and we are not used to this and it would certainly not be to the liking of many managers.
Quite honestly the stuff we hear from Standard fans is to be mistrusted. He sacked the former Manager, sold some overpaid players and reduced ticket prices- they are now storming the Belgian league, selling out and in next years Champions league! Which kinda vindicates his decisions?! If he is picking their team then he is obviously doing it right!
RD has been here a few weeks - We all need to remember what was going of before he came - We were having a very bad season with a squad that desperately needed development and club in real financial peril. We had experienced a prolonged period of uncertainty and less than committed owners. RD came in, saved us from bankruptcy, stabilised the finances and loaned and sold us way better players than we would have got had the takeover failed.
I hope that over a longer term we all have a different perspective on this man, I might be wrong - however I doubt that I would ever want to go for a pint of IPA with him!
Why is it that every single one of the people who has joined this list since Duchatelet took over make comments that are resolutely pro- Duchatelet ? It really does begin to feel like some sort of organized campaign.
Why is there so much paranoia on this website?!
Actually I agree with you on that. I have seen a few posts that have made me wonder.
I am from Kent and discovered caught football like religion aged 40 so am a latecomer in most of your eyes. However I have now had ten season tickets with Charlton in three Leagues so think that I am entitled to an opinion. Hated Dowie; Jumped up and down when Pardew was appointed ( which I later regretted ) and had no time for Parkinson at all. Like CP and thought Curbs was god like.
It's not that I am resolutely pro RD so much as I don't agree with a lot of things said about the man and some of the players. In a year I may have changed my mind. There are a fair few people on here who are genuine and have similar views.
BTW this is the only forum I have ever joined and I did so because I had been following the site re the takeover. Nothing more sinister I can assure you!
Sorry IAgree but your view that Thuram's pick up of a ball in the QPR game constituted a 'great save' really did raise a few laughs - hence Nug's comments. I was going to write a lot more but that would be wrong. You must feel free to express your opinion of course.
Sorry IAgree but your view that Thuram's pick up of a ball in the QPR game constituted a 'great save' really did raise a few laughs - hence Nug's comments. I was going to write a lot more but that would be wrong. You must feel free to express your opinion of course.
OK then, simple question: the club (just like pretty much every other club) is not currently solvent: it loses £3m/£4m each year. If you do not want the club to be run in this way to save money, how would you like to see it run? Or is your support dependent on the club's directors/banks putting their hands in their pockets to give away £3m/£4m each year?
Simple answer: I didn't say that. You've invented a sentiment to fit your argument. Not at all against balancing books, making cuts and so on. Being part of the great football network project is just not for me.
OK then, simple question: the club (just like pretty much every other club) is not currently solvent: it loses £3m/£4m each year. If you do not want the club to be run in this way to save money, how would you like to see it run? Or is your support dependent on the club's directors/banks putting their hands in their pockets to give away £3m/£4m each year?
Simple answer: I didn't say that. You've invented a sentiment to fit your argument. Not at all against balancing books, making cuts and so on. Being part of the great football network project is just not for me.
Comments
Nego & PP are permanents and perhaps for the future yes - how were they to help Powell? we would be in the same position with or without them - they mean nothing to CAFC first team as it stands, maybe in the future they will.
Reza - Missed chances, looks the part in his youtube videos for Iran, but he is no better than what Church is doing, putting in effort with no end product, and occasionally Church does have an end product. Reza needs more time for a proper assessment, but he's not scored or set up any goals, I don't think.. something Kermorgant was doing with the same team around him.
AA - Quality but only playing in glimpses, he was signed nearing the end of the Championship season without full fitness. He plays game in the second gear because if he steps into any further gears he will be in a heap struggling for breath.
We are in no better position with all of these. They have not been picked out to help us, you are disillusioned if you think these are what we need. Reza maybe, but with experience, AA maybe, but with fitness. Neither of them have these attritributes yet.
These players have been pushed our way for their individual reasons that benefit the wellbeing of RDs network, RD pushes players about within his network and buys players into his network, they have not been cherry picked to save us.
It's fair enough, the Belgian owns the club, he can run it like a business and second in staff from his other businesses, but maybe I will start acting like a customer and say, why give up my precious cash and even more precious time to watch a substandard team playing on a substandard pitch in a cold stadium where I consider myself lucky if I manage to buy an overpriced beer in a concrete concourse at half time? On the off chance that some of the dross that weren't good enough for the other businesses flourishes with us? On the off chance that we uncover a diamond from our wonderful academy and it doesn't get snatched away to a more business critical location? As a customer I'd probably say fuck that.
Do i agree with us being an owners number 2? No. But as we are, i don't see a massive deal with us getting a few extra players on an already thin squad.
The key point for me though is not to debate how good they are. It is that they have not been brought here based on the specifications that the manager provided in the run up to the window, concerning which positions should be strengthened, and with what kind of player. So Ajdarevic is by common consent the most promising looking player of the new recruits but he is a central midfielder. Because of the emergence of Cousins and now Poyet, we have a lot of players (some like Pritchard out of form) whose natural position is in the centre, but we have been short of natural wide midfield players. This wasn't addressed by the "network" so Powell got pelters for playing Cousins wide right, got fired, only for the new guy to come in and play Cousins...wide left.
Then there is the keeper. Regardless of how good he is, he was the first one to arrive, and at the time, it seemed like the one position where we had good cover. I don't know what exactly is "wrong" with Ben Alnwick, and unless you do Gary, I'd be careful of assuming anything. What I do know is that Alnwick continued to play and get good reviews from all on here up until the point when he was suddenly shunted off.
And then there is the issue we haven't really talked about on here much. Who is paying the salaries of the loan players? And are they 'adjusted' up or down, depending on whom they came from? The point is that for RD the most satisfying element of these players coming here is that maybe this has reduced the Standard wage bill, thus helping towards some Standard P&L target that he may have set. Or in another aspect of the wages issue, he may be congratulating himself that he brought in "lots" of new players whose combined salaries are less than what he saved on those of Yann and Stephens.
And then there is the issue of Polish Pete. He isn't 'network', yet many ITK people are claiming that significant cash has been splashed on him. Perhaps equal to or more than the amount we got for Yann. Was this the right move at the right time?
So perhaps the question to ask is this. If we were a standalone club, not in a network; would Chris Powell or any other manager, say for example, Dave Jones, bring these particular players in , in order to ensure we avoid relegation, especially if they also knew in advance that they would have to sell Yann and Dale ?
I am not fundamentally against the network vision or principal, but I am using the above examples to illustrate my point: the devil is in the detail.
I think Riga looks like he has potential and seems to be a good choice. I feel for him actually since it was not his fault that CP was sacked and he is going to get a lot less support than most new managers we have had. In fact the opposite, at a time when we should all be hoping he can fill a big void and keep us up.
I think Kermorgant would have gone anyway.
I have no problem taking players who need experience on loan. From anywhere else it is a loan, from Roland's clubs they are decried as rejects. Think we should give them support at least until they have played a few games. Some will be good and some will not- like loan players are!
Think that there is very little evidence to suggest that we are a feeder club! Actually I think that the idea of trading/ loaning players between teams within a network does have merit (although potential pitfalls)
I do not buy that he is trying to get us relegated! This does not stand up to scrutiny,or logic.
I think it unfortunate that he took over at a time that a Charlton legend was manager of a squad which had not been developed. I strongly suspect that a great deal of the venom aimed at RD would not have happened if this hadn't been an issue.
I think it unlikely that the guy hand picks each squad for each of his six teams! I think that if he a great deal more hands on than other owners however and we are not used to this and it would certainly not be to the liking of many managers.
Quite honestly the stuff we hear from Standard fans is to be mistrusted. He sacked the former Manager, sold some overpaid players and reduced ticket prices- they are now storming the Belgian league, selling out and in next years Champions league! Which kinda vindicates his decisions?! If he is picking their team then he is obviously doing it right!
RD has been here a few weeks - We all need to remember what was going of before he came - We were having a very bad season with a squad that desperately needed development and club in real financial peril. We had experienced a prolonged period of uncertainty and less than committed owners. RD came in, saved us from bankruptcy, stabilised the finances and loaned and sold us way better players than we would have got had the takeover failed.
I hope that over a longer term we all have a different perspective on this man, I might be wrong - however I doubt that I would ever want to go for a pint of IPA with him!
We had achieved bottom place under Powell with Powell's players, our form was terrible, our performances awful, you cannot point to an owner reluctant to trust a manager in that position and say he is unfair to be dubious.
Maybe, as VG says, no-one of any quality wanted to come to us but that is no reason to take players who are no help in the present situation.
As for RDs decision to sack Powell, if it had been on performances and results I could have understood but he said Powell was sacked because they "could not reach an agreement over the club's football strategy going forward". Seems to me that RD is more Vincent Tan than Tony Fernandes!!
Actually I agree with you on that. I have seen a few posts that have made me wonder.
I am from Kent and discovered caught football like religion aged 40 so am a latecomer in most of your eyes. However I have now had ten season tickets with Charlton in three Leagues so think that I am entitled to an opinion. Hated Dowie; Jumped up and down when Pardew was appointed ( which I later regretted ) and had no time for Parkinson at all. Like CP and thought Curbs was god like.
It's not that I am resolutely pro RD so much as I don't agree with a lot of things said about the man and some of the players. In a year I may have changed my mind. There are a fair few people on here who are genuine and have similar views.
BTW this is the only forum I have ever joined and I did so because I had been following the site re the takeover. Nothing more sinister I can assure you!
Far from having our worst interest at heart I do think there's a chance that he took a touch decision, one he knew would provoke such hostility, because it was the best call open to him at the time.
Chris Powell, for however much I regret it didn't work out and however many good & bad times we shared with him, was no managerial messiah.
There are lots of rose tinted glasses being worn cos it was Chris Powell
I struggle a little to find Roland right on that decision alone.
Personally I do not think Roland is right about very much at all about this club. But I doubt that will keep him awake tonight or any other.
Some posters on here write great analysis from both sides of the situation and it is clear that many fans are raw.
IMHO the midfield is far stronger with the sale of Stephens and the loan of Ajdarevic plus the emergence of Poyet...and Harriott is back. So one current player from last season one from the academy and one loan...we should get used to that because my guess is that is the shape of things to come. And it is cheaper and quicker than using agents / paying fees to UK clubs.
Nothing has changed with our back five with a reserve loan keeper and no real cover for Solly but is he back soon?
It is up front where I would challenge this new model for we have not replaced Kermorgant and we are not scoring goals. Signing someone good from anywhere doesn't break the rules - it will enhance the credibility of the model with the fans and the media... But that isn't Duchatelet's agenda. So I will simply state cc Katrien Miere that it will enhance the chances of staying up enabling the club to get on with building and stop the in-fighting.
All we are saying is give us a goal!