Could Roland just be right?
Comments
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I would imagine SL fans were saying the same 18 months ago.
Ask them in 5 months when they are in the CL and they'll say he got it right.3 -
No evidence (yet). Just my view on his practises in football. He does not care about Charlton. I do.AddicksAddict said:
The evidence for this statement is...?Gammysnr said:He's wrong on all levels. A wrong 'un.
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Slightly off the subject but I don't quite fully understand Roland's set-up. For instance what happens to us (and th e other clubs) if anything happens to Roland? Would we come under his family's control or that of his business empire? just wondered.0
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But is there necessarily a difference, except in a positive sense? Many investors will own a number of companies around the world, and will be keen for them to take advantage of those ties where they can, without in any way compromising their individual identities.PragueAddick said:
I'm sure Morts will reply for himself but the difference is that the Division One "project" related exclusively to CAFC. This project, for better or for worse, relates to a network of clubs across Europe, of which we are just one. That is a really important difference. We may differ in opinion of whether it will work but we should never forget that that is what it is.iaitch said:
Dictionary definition of project 'something that is contemplated, devised, or planned; plan; scheme'.Mortimerician said:For me he is wrong. I support a football club, not a project. It's immaterial if it's a successful business project.
Surely we had a project to get us out of League 1, no objections to that project was there?
At an extreme, most big stock-exchange investors will 'own' any number of companies without having any operational input at all.
Clearly others will want a much closer tie-up, so only time will tell, but I am not sure that it is possible to extrapolate on immediate actions that he has taken in an attempt (successful or otherwise) to solve a perceived immediate crisis and conclude that this is how things will always be.
It is perfectly plausible that he wants Charlton to be a unique and successful club, with unique advantages as part of a group. Not least because this is what he keeps insisting (didn't he have some phrase about 'which or your children do you love most?').0 -
Yes this I believe to be true.ValleyGary said:I would imagine SL fans were saying the same 18 months ago.
Ask them in 5 months when they are in the CL and they'll say he got it right.
However I wonder what SL fans would say if they were a feeder club/ reserve team/ experiment for another club.
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I suspect that if Roland can get us in to the Premiership, Standard Liege will become a feeder club for us.seth plum said:
Yes this I believe to be true.ValleyGary said:I would imagine SL fans were saying the same 18 months ago.
Ask them in 5 months when they are in the CL and they'll say he got it right.
However I wonder what SL fans would say if they were a feeder club/ reserve team/ experiment for another club.2 -
I think that his way should be given the chance to work, we are no more in danger of being exploited now than we were before him, and I still have seen no evidence to suggest otherwise
ultimately though if you have to sell your soul to the highest bidder like murray done to TJ/MS then you shouldn't be surprised when 2 rogue traders needs to sell and the only one that is interested is one that most wouldn't want, (like a loan shark) , is the only man with the pennies willing to ignore the blatant mis mgmt like the pitch issue2 -
How far off are Liege from the Champions league in any season anyway I wonder. Probably always in the top 4 or so perhaps. Not sure our situation and football in general in England is in any way comparable to Belgium. If we're pushing to get in the Premier league next season then yes I would say he's been successful in his plan.ValleyGary said:I would imagine SL fans were saying the same 18 months ago.
Ask them in 5 months when they are in the CL and they'll say he got it right.
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Well - and just thinking aloud - let's consider what we have learnt about RD, from Belgian journos and fans:StevieK said:
But is there necessarily a difference, except in a positive sense? Many investors will own a number of companies around the world, and will be keen for them to take advantage of those ties where they can, without in any way compromising their individual identities.PragueAddick said:
I'm sure Morts will reply for himself but the difference is that the Division One "project" related exclusively to CAFC. This project, for better or for worse, relates to a network of clubs across Europe, of which we are just one. That is a really important difference. We may differ in opinion of whether it will work but we should never forget that that is what it is.iaitch said:
Dictionary definition of project 'something that is contemplated, devised, or planned; plan; scheme'.Mortimerician said:For me he is wrong. I support a football club, not a project. It's immaterial if it's a successful business project.
Surely we had a project to get us out of League 1, no objections to that project was there?
At an extreme, most big stock-exchange investors will 'own' any number of companies without having any operational input at all.
Clearly others will want a much closer tie-up, so only time will tell, but I am not sure that it is possible to extrapolate on immediate actions that he has taken in an attempt (successful or otherwise) to solve a perceived immediate crisis and conclude that this is how things will always be.
It is perfectly plausible that he wants Charlton to be a unique and successful club, with unique advantages as part of a group. Not least because this is what he keeps insisting (didn't he have some phrase about 'which or your children do you love most?').
- he is not a football fan, and he does not understand the obsession we have with it (he expressed bewilderment that the Belgian PM travelled two hours to see his team)
- he believes that it is possible to make money from football; unlike most owners. We may infer that the main motivation is therefore to show the business world that he can do it where others have failed to do so
- one way to make the overall business profitable is to achieve "synergies" by sharing human resources - players and other resources - across the network
So I think the synergy element - which is about cost reduction - is the most challenging element to the idea that individual business units (clubs) identities will be preserved.
On the other hand you make profit not just by cost-reduction but revenue increase. As many people have said many times, the clearest opportunity in front of him to quickly increase revenue is to get CAFC into the FAPL. If that happened his business goal, and our personal goal, would be perfectly aligned.
But the devil is in the detail...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmo0mmX1P2g#t=70
This used to be my home,
But nothin's the same since you left baby
But that's OK, I can handle it,
I got some new friends now!
Some new friends now!
I sold my soul to the Devil
But the Devil came back for more
I sold my soul to the Devil
But the Devil came back for more
Well I'm in need of some cash
So what is he waiting for
I don't know what it's like
To live in a house like this
I don't know what it's like
To live in a house like this
Just see the curtain's are closed
And the garden's a wilderness
(And the garden's a wilderness)
The bottle's my friend
Since the day you walked out that door
Well the bottle's my friend
Since the day you walked out that door
I've got a head full of blues
But nothin' worth fightin' for
I sold my soul to the Devil
But the Devil came back for more
I sold my soul to the Devil
But the Devil came back for more
Well I'm in need of some cash
So what is he waiting for
I sold my soul to the Devil
The Devil came back for more
I sold my soul to the Devil
Devil came back for more
Well I'm in need of some cash
So what is he waiting for
I sold my soul to the Devil
Devil came back for more
Sold my soul to the Devil
Devil came back for more
Well I'm in need of some cash
So what is he waiting for.....0 -
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aint that the truth0
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Wrong on both points.danhughes99 said:he had a fair crack of the whip and didnt deliver.
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But if we stay up and then invest next season (which I've heard will happen) then a play-off push could see a shift in the pecking order.seth plum said:
Yes this I believe to be true.ValleyGary said:I would imagine SL fans were saying the same 18 months ago.
Ask them in 5 months when they are in the CL and they'll say he got it right.
However I wonder what SL fans would say if they were a feeder club/ reserve team/ experiment for another club.
Theres millions more to be had for Prem football than the Belgium league and a brief CL appearance.2 -
ValleyGary said:seth plum said:
Yes this I believe to be true.ValleyGary said:I would imagine SL fans were saying the same 18 months ago.
Ask them in 5 months when they are in the CL and they'll say he got it right.
However I wonder what SL fans would say if they were a feeder club/ reserve team/ experiment for another club.
But if we stay up and then invest next season (which I've heard will happen) then a play-off push could see a shift in the pecking order.
Theres millions more to be had for Prem football than the Belgium league and a brief CL appearance.
I completely agree with this too, there may well be a shift in the pecking order in the future, would you like that to happen?
However for now Charlton Athletic need to stay up.
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Lots of ifs in this thread...2
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I would agree, if I had time to count how many there were.ValleyTalkBlog said:Lots of ifs in this thread...
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Just because you keep saying the same thing it just make it more true than the last timeseth plum said:
Yes this I believe to be true.ValleyGary said:I would imagine SL fans were saying the same 18 months ago.
Ask them in 5 months when they are in the CL and they'll say he got it right.
However I wonder what SL fans would say if they were a feeder club/ reserve team/ experiment for another club.
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@Algarveaddick @Bill_Stumps @Henry Irving
look, I haven't come on here to pick a fight about the merits of CP and the job he done, yet you lot all want to. If I had, I'd be getting dug out for mentioning the same argument thats on 20 other threads.
I respect people have different opinions and this has been rehashed on here countless times, there is no point going over it all again.
CP is no more at Charlton. Rightly or wrongly. Now I support Charlton and not CP and I'd like to discuss the future of our club not its past.
So could you all kindly just "move on"
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No.2
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A number of Lifers have pointed to the league position of Liege as 'evidence' that RDs methods can work. What about the other clubs in his stable? None of them are tearing up their divisions. It is therefore quite conceivable that it is as much good fortune as brilliant planning that sees Liege where they are this season. My second point is that no-one can claim both that his method of swapping players from clubs show a canny involvement in the particular club and at the same time that he doesn't try and dictate who plays. Is anyone seriously suggesting that he lumped us with half a dozen players and was totally indifferent whether Powell played them or not? Did he bring them over here just to allow them to improve their English? No he brought them so that they could play and he could either flog them as first teamers or could flog our own players if he could get the imports into the side in their place.
Consider those given to us. Thuram. Far inferior to Ben Hamer. Reported to have been considered as conference level and he has actually played for the first team. If Thuram had been selected once Ben Hamer was fit does anyone think Ben would stay?? Nego, Anil Koc and Polish Pete. I've not seen any of them play but the coaching staff have and if they had thought they would have been better than anyone we were already playing they would have been regulars. Let's hope their English is coming on a treat. That leaves Reza and Astrit. Already fans have summed up Reza. Runs around a lot, falls over even more. Ah! but he scored for Iran midweek I hear. Yes - against Guinea and in a 2-1 defeat! Not exactly going to shake the world are they?
That leaves Astrit. Bags of skill, great strike on him but after 30 minutes was at walking pace. Clearly not going to be tracking back on his opposite number anytime soon. And he is the best 'given' to us. I don't 'blame' any of these players. I'm sure they want to do their best but why are they here? What have they brought to CAFC that as improved our performances? Of these imports only two started last night and neither completed the 90 minutes. Not inspiring is it?17 -
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Exactly. SL qualified for Europe every year for several years before RD took them over.Nug said:
How far off are Liege from the Champions league in any season anyway I wonder. Probably always in the top 4 or so perhaps. Not sure our situation and football in general in England is in any way comparable to Belgium. If we're pushing to get in the Premier league next season then yes I would say he's been successful in his plan.ValleyGary said:I would imagine SL fans were saying the same 18 months ago.
Ask them in 5 months when they are in the CL and they'll say he got it right.
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Sums it up perfectly legaladdick0
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Doesn't this rather contradict your own argument that players are being sent here and demanded that they should play, regardless of whether they are good enough for Charlton?legaladdick said:Nego, Anil Koc and Polish Pete. I've not seen any of them play but the coaching staff have and if they had thought they would have been better than anyone we were already playing they would have been regulars.
Plus, I love the way that Reza has gone from a situation where there was a huge thread demanding that he be sent over to us, when we thought he was mustard, to one where he is an SL player foisted on us, because we now don't think he's that great. How quickly perspectives change!4 -
But to be fair, if they do indeed end this year as Champions they will have broken years of Anderlecht hegemony. If you are a Standard fan, you are well pleased with that.DRAddick said:
Exactly. SL qualified for Europe every year for several years before RD took them over.Nug said:
How far off are Liege from the Champions league in any season anyway I wonder. Probably always in the top 4 or so perhaps. Not sure our situation and football in general in England is in any way comparable to Belgium. If we're pushing to get in the Premier league next season then yes I would say he's been successful in his plan.ValleyGary said:I would imagine SL fans were saying the same 18 months ago.
Ask them in 5 months when they are in the CL and they'll say he got it right.
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Does that mean that the RD Charlton will beat Millwall?PragueAddick said:
But to be fair, if they do indeed end this year as Champions they will have broken years of Anderlecht hegemony. If you are a Standard fan, you are well pleased with that.DRAddick said:
Exactly. SL qualified for Europe every year for several years before RD took them over.Nug said:
How far off are Liege from the Champions league in any season anyway I wonder. Probably always in the top 4 or so perhaps. Not sure our situation and football in general in England is in any way comparable to Belgium. If we're pushing to get in the Premier league next season then yes I would say he's been successful in his plan.ValleyGary said:I would imagine SL fans were saying the same 18 months ago.
Ask them in 5 months when they are in the CL and they'll say he got it right.
;-)0 -
His other teams are in pub leagues. Whats to say he hasn't took them over to gain experience in running football clubs. Not a lot of money to lose or gain at that level….so could be called an experiment.legaladdick said:A number of Lifers have pointed to the league position of Liege as 'evidence' that RDs methods can work. What about the other clubs in his stable? None of them are tearing up their divisions. It is therefore quite conceivable that it is as much good fortune as brilliant planning that sees Liege where they are this season. My second point is that no-one can claim both that his method of swapping players from clubs show a canny involvement in the particular club and at the same time that he doesn't try and dictate who plays. Is anyone seriously suggesting that he lumped us with half a dozen players and was totally indifferent whether Powell played them or not? Did he bring them over here just to allow them to improve their English? No he brought them so that they could play and he could either flog them as first teamers or could flog our own players if he could get the imports into the side in their place.
Consider those given to us. Thuram. Far inferior to Ben Hamer. Reported to have been considered as conference level and he has actually played for the first team. If Thuram had been selected once Ben Hamer was fit does anyone think Ben would stay?? Nego, Anil Koc and Polish Pete. I've not seen any of them play but the coaching staff have and if they had thought they would have been better than anyone we were already playing they would have been regulars. Let's hope their English is coming on a treat. That leaves Reza and Astrit. Already fans have summed up Reza. Runs around a lot, falls over even more. Ah! but he scored for Iran midweek I hear. Yes - against Guinea and in a 2-1 defeat! Not exactly going to shake the world are they?
That leaves Astrit. Bags of skill, great strike on him but after 30 minutes was at walking pace. Clearly not going to be tracking back on his opposite number anytime soon. And he is the best 'given' to us. I don't 'blame' any of these players. I'm sure they want to do their best but why are they here? What have they brought to CAFC that as improved our performances? Of these imports only two started last night and neither completed the 90 minutes. Not inspiring is it?
He inherited CAFC already in a pickle but with the potential to play in the the most finically rewarding league's in the world. Do you really think he's ignorant to this fact? He'd be a pretty shit businessman if her was.
Reza - Played bit parts or out of position so far. And well done in highlighting one game…ignore that fact he scored regularly in a tough qualifying group, including a goal against South Korea, who's defence is made up of a couple of Bundesliga players.
Where we would be without these loans brought in anyway? Christ, even Ishmael Miller chose Yeovil Town over us!!!2 -
I like reza thing is he needs to play on the shoulder of the last centre back and he will score goals he just needs that first to go in!2
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28. A lot less than I expected.CrayAddick said:
I would agree, if I had time to count how many there were.ValleyTalkBlog said:Lots of ifs in this thread...
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To answer StevieK. Why do you think Powell was sacked? Powell said it wasn't the salary which was the sticking point on a new contract but was football matter related. This is precisely my point. Powell would not play those whom he considered not up to standard and wanted to have control over who was brought in.
And as for ValleyGary with 'where would we be without these loans brought in' well tell me please what they have achieved. Please set out, in detail (it won't take long) what invaluable contribution those I named made since they came.0 -
Thuram - 'far inferior to Hamer'..Really? Hamer made exactly the same mistakes earlier this season. Plus the fact we needed another keeper when it was clear something wasn't right with Alnwick's head.legaladdick said:To answer StevieK. Why do you think Powell was sacked? Powell said it wasn't the salary which was the sticking point on a new contract but was football matter related. This is precisely my point. Powell would not play those whom he considered not up to standard and wanted to have control over who was brought in.
And as for ValleyGary with 'where would we be without these loans brought in' well tell me please what they have achieved. Please set out, in detail (it won't take long) what invaluable contribution those I named made since they came.
Nego & PP are permanents and perhaps for the future.
Reza - As i said, played bit parts and out of position so far. Under the right manager and style he might flourish. 6 goals in Asian qualifying this term, theres clearly a player in there somewhere.
AA - another one thats not played in the right position so far. This bloke has quality, and without Roland he wouldn't even have been on our radar.
When players like Ishmael Miller are turning us down to go to clubs like Yeovil Town then there really is a concern. Its hardly like CP had a glowing loan player record when left to his own devices. We need all the help we can get, so digging out the SL players is harsh.
Perhaps you could tell me the invaluable contribution the contracted players at the club have had this season? (won't take long)
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