Can't agree Airman, yes CP is Charlton to the bone, yes he did wonders in the promotion season, this season we have been crap, consistently and totally crap. There are mitigating factors but if Powell was half the manager some paint him as then he would get better out of this lot. He got a good run going at the arse end of last season, we know the players have it in them, they aren't showing a sign of it. He HAS to be at least in part responsible.
I am puzzled by people stating that Powell has to take responsibility for this, that and the other, because one thing he's never done is blame anyone else - even though he's been employed in a circus for the last 18 months.
The fact that Danny Green is even on the bench is a pretty good indicator of the problems he has, because the bloke's a liability as was once shown once again when he surrendered possession for the second goal. And what was that free-kick about?
There were some encouraging things on the pitch this afternoon, including Poyet and Ajdarevic but there's no evidence either way to suggest things would have been different if Parzyszek had started. It's just an assumption by people who haven't had the benefit of watching him in training over the last week. I hope he turns out to be useful, but I also remember the people on here insisting that Pigott should play at the start of the season. By the same token we will be very lucky to get 20 games out of Poyet between now and May and it's probably not in his interest that we do.
Like most people I don't always agree with Chris's team selection or substitutions, but I do recognise that he has an exceptional ability to motivate the players and get them to put in the effort, because they want to play for him, although that may be undermined if the established players feel they are being replaced by others not chosen by him.
Quite simply the squad is still not good enough, because it has been depleted as well as increased. We need to bring in two or three exceptional loan signings who speak English and are used to the pace and physicality of English football and I don't believe changing the manager at this stage as well as so many of the players would be a sensible move, even if there was an obviously better one available.
As it stands we are going down - no question - but the owner has the financial capacity to avoid this fate with short term expenditure and to save himself money in the medium term by doing so. Presumably that is what he will try to do. But in response to the claim that the most people now think Chris has to go, not in my name, thanks.
Everyone in the stadium wanted to see PP and then he brought on church!!! With 18 mins to go why not make all three changes and bring on PP aswell, it would have given a lift to the crowd and maybe spurred us on to get an equaliser but no he leaves him and brings him on when we're 2-0 down with 3 mins to go, that is just appalling management.
Also what about the training exercise that we saw in the video in the week? What is the point on working on scoring from crosses when we're playing with 4 CM's in midfield!
The only person to blame for this is powell, and he still hasnt learned all season, i cannot see us staying up playing like this, and the fact that andy hughes is shouting more encouragement from the sidelines and gets told off for doing so speaks volumes
So who would you play? Green, Harriott and Cook aren't the answer.
Could have played Nego at RB with Wilson RM, but that still leaves us needing a left winger. There were mixed reports on Nego last week though and Powell probably didn't think any of the midfield deserved to be dropped.
Until we get a loan or two in Powell's got two choices, play his best players with one or two out of position, or play one or two players that aren't really good enough.
The thing is, you pick your team and then do the training sessions tactics ect. If he knew he was picking 4 CM's why work on and put a video out of crossing and shooting when thats not going to be the game plan??
Im not on about that we havent got any good wingers im just saying if powell knew that he wasnt going to play wingers why is he working on crossing the ball in when he knew that wouldnt be game realistic
Cousins can't play wide right. JJ can't play wide left. Astrit looks like he would be good in the centre of midfield and Poyet had a good game there too. Mmmmm going to be a tad crowded in there isn't it?
It's a short clip to show off the new strikers, it can't be all they worked on in training all week.
The wide midfielders aren't the only players that can get crosses in either.
It just seems stupid that the club would put out that getting us excited then to realise that we were playing 4 CM's and that powell thought PP was only good for 3 mins at the end, if he can come on for that he could have came on at 1-0 down with 18 mins to go, with church. I would say that church should have came on instead of green i would rather have church on the wing
Bitterly disappointed by yesterday it was a must win, unfortunately it doesn't get any easier teams above us will play twice more in the league before we play QPR and the following week we have Leicester away!
would someone tell me if the attacking exercise in the PP Reza video was actually put into practice with crosses coming in, or did it not happen because we played 4 cm's?
yes i found that video positive but it just didnt happen anough today
And who's fault is that? He picks a narrow side just after the fans see the new strikers scoring from crosses in a training video - Not smart. We are continually beaten by sides who don't have to work very hard for the 3 points they take from us.
And who should the crosses come from? Danny Green? Maybe if we get some wide men in during the loan window we may see some different football
Can't agree Airman, yes CP is Charlton to the bone, yes he did wonders in the promotion season, this season we have been crap, consistently and totally crap. There are mitigating factors but if Powell was half the manager some paint him as then he would get better out of this lot. He got a good run going at the arse end of last season, we know the players have it in them, they aren't showing a sign of it. He HAS to be at least in part responsible.
Fuller, Haynes, Hulse, Obika and Kermorgant.
Sordell, Church, Pigott, formerly Kermorgant, and now Reza and unpronounceable Pete.
As Scoham said, crossing isn't restricted to wide midfielders. Corners and free kicks are crossing opportunities. Green was brought on to supply crosses. That's probably why they practised crossing in training.
As Scoham said, crossing isn't restricted to wide midfielders. Corners and free kicks are crossing opportunities. Green was brought on to supply crosses. That's probably why they practised crossing in training.
Wouldnt it be better to practice with defenders in there aswell then?
Good points, Airman, and I agree that despite being dealt a bad hand by the previous regime, Powell has consistently refused to blame others for the team's poor performances. Witness his emotional apology on the pitch at the end of last season; Powell's dignity is one of the qualities that has warmly endeared him to the fans.
Patently our squad lacks the ability to compete strongly in this division. I don't doubt Powell's motivational skills, but the almost total absence of attacking force in a number of recent games - only one or two shots on target, and in at least one game none at all - speaks to me of a fundamental managerial weakness. Whether by technical ability, rehearsed set-plays, native cunning or sheer brute force, it's imperative that players get past opponents to make goal-scoring chances. We have failed.
It's a proven statistic that a change of manager generally sparks an improvement in results, if only temporarily. If in a month's time we are in the same position, I think it would be negligent not to give a new man a dozen games to keep us up.
Everyone agrees we need a creative CM and a winger on loan, but will SCP play them from the start. According to comments Poyet, Cousins and AA were our best players and we know he will not leave out JJ.
Posting my comment without going through the other seven pages so apologies if I'm repeating a lot of things...
I know it was a team with a few strangers yet Sordell and Green need to stop trying to be heroes and need to use their team mates... About three times in the second half Sordell picked up the ball in the middle of their half and just ran with it when there were options available (Before shooting into a blocking man), Green was the same, he had a brilliant chance to put Wilson through on the overlap but decided to go into a cul-de-sac... Play for the shirt not the name on the back of it
Last comment about Sordell but it sadly pleases me that its not just the fans fed up with him... Wilson put a lovely cross into him at one point 2nd Half and the lazy bugger didnt even bother jumping (ironically it was the defender behind him who jumped and cleared it), a few minutes later it happened again and you saw Wilson absolutely scream at Sordell in frustration!!
Think the criticism of Thuram is a bit harsh cant say much for the last two games but the first Goal was one of those crosses put into the sort of area where the 'keeper cannot come for it, if they do then they may as well commit suicide its more sensible... the second goal again couldnt do much about
He made just the one commanding punch from a corner which cleared the ball quicker than our defenders do sometimes from such play and made some good catches, he miss-kicked it twice but those who are bemoaning that cant have been around during the times of Kiely because his distribution in the first half was excellent (quickly got rid of the ball to start new attacks as well) - He also made an excellent save shortly after it went 1-0 to stop Burke one-on-one!!
Evina needs to be loaned out to League One... He needs some confidence and its gonna start costing us... It was him sleeping that allowed Burke in for the one-on-one
Poyet is gonna be come a class player and like Cousins now I reckon he'll become a regular feature in the Midfield... Some might be surprised and disagree with me about saying this but I prefer him to Stephens, under him there would be too many sideways / backwards passing whereas Poyet will always drop deep to the Defenders pick up the ball and start an attack.
Ajdarevic... This guy really surprised me and I'd like him to stay on a perm basis, he must have been given a free-role as countless times I saw him drift over to the right by Cousins (which is a slight concern seeing he left Evina on his own a bit) yet the countless times he kept the ball in play was amazing, that with his flick-ons actually going to team mates I reckon we've found a more creative player in Midfield than Kermorgant when playing up front (Bit of a spongefoot when shooting though).
Reza... I liked the runs he kept trying to make, dropped deep to get the ball... reckon if we have him and Church up front they could leave defences paranoid with the amount of running both players do, fraid Powell needs to take him aside and get him to cut out the diving, if he did dive then well done the Referee (It was the only good thing he did all game)
All in all I reckon you've got to look at this result long term... You can see that this team is gonna be passing it around more rather than lumping it forwards and not making excuses for the defeat yet it was difficult trying to do that with the pitch how it was as the players didnt know how hard to pass the ball (when you also combine the fact when the ball would bounce it would be like a rugby ball as there were a few times when Charlton players would position themselves to bring the back under control after the bounce and it would end up elsewhere) etc... so hopefully we can really improve the pitch over the summer
Think overall it was a harsh defeat... We certainly created opportunities but (1) the ball just wouldnt sit for us or (2) We'd have Randolph in the way and I always knew coming into this match that we'd have to come up with something special to beat him
EDIT
Substitutes... I know a lot of people have criticised Powell's timing and choice of sub today yet felt he got it spot on... Church was brought on to make a nuisance of himself and like I said above... make the defenders paranoid whilst Green was put on to try and add some width (Just I doubt his instructions were definitely not to lose the ball in the middle of the pitch and so concede)...
Had we been 1-0 up I reckon Piotr would have been put on to try and hold the ball up but Church is definitely the man to use when chasing the game... Would like to see Church and Reza start against Sheffield Wednesday with Piotr given a longer cameo (Depending on the score)
As Scoham said, crossing isn't restricted to wide midfielders. Corners and free kicks are crossing opportunities. Green was brought on to supply crosses. That's probably why they practised crossing in training.
Wouldnt it be better to practice with defenders in there aswell then?
If the footage shows the only training on crossing/attacking play that took place last week then I agree. I would also then agree that CP and his coaching team are clueless. I doubt this is the case though.
Sordell is never going to cut the mustard with us. He even told me after the match that he knows that the fans don't like him and that we would rather him not be here. Of course he could rectify this by giving more effort. I personally was very frustrated with him yesterday as he showed glimpses of promise then showed no effort when crosses were delivered into his area. I honestly think his confidence is shot to pieces.
As Scoham said, crossing isn't restricted to wide midfielders. Corners and free kicks are crossing opportunities. Green was brought on to supply crosses. That's probably why they practised crossing in training.
Wouldnt it be better to practice with defenders in there aswell then?
How do you know they didn't?
The clip in no way shows what they do or don't do in training all week.
Airman Brown says ''Quite simply the squad is still not good enough, because it has been depleted as well as increased. We need to bring in two or three exceptional loan signings who speak English and are used to the pace and physicality of English football and I don't believe changing the manager at this stage as well as so many of the players would be a sensible move, even if there was an obviously better one available''.
Agree 100%.
Can you honestly see us getting British players in when we can have loans from SL, Upjest and the other clubs Roland owns. What standard of football are these guys used to? Astrit the only loanee I'm impressed with! I think at the moment we are just no a cost cutting exercise, having read VOTV reasons on why Yann left!
I wasn't there so can't comment on the match.... but I'd like to put in a good word for Thuram, at Middlesbrough and Wigan his kicking was excellent so please don't write him off on a poor kicking display in one match at the Valley.
I wasn't there so can't comment on the match.... but I'd like to put in a good word for Thuram, at Middlesbrough and Wigan his kicking was excellent so please don't write him off on a poor kicking display in one match at the Valley.
Wasnt at Middlesbrough or Wigan but agreed... Was extremely windy at the Valley yesterday and note at one point in the first half Thuram went to take a goal kick and the ball rolled away a couple of inches
Airman Brown says ''Quite simply the squad is still not good enough, because it has been depleted as well as increased. We need to bring in two or three exceptional loan signings who speak English and are used to the pace and physicality of English football and I don't believe changing the manager at this stage as well as so many of the players would be a sensible move, even if there was an obviously better one available''.
Agree 100%.
Can you honestly see us getting British players in when we can have loans from SL, Upjest and the other clubs Roland owns. What standard of football are these guys used to? Astrit the only loanee I'm impressed with! I think at the moment we are just no a cost cutting exercise, having read VOTV reasons on why Yann left!
Depends how astute Roland is. He will have plenty of people advising him he needs players familiar with English football to stay up. I'd be amazed if Powell isn't telling him that and Murray ought to be too. If he insists he knows best and managing short term cost is a higher priority or that we can stay up using the network then he's not as clever as he thinks he is, in my opinion. It makes no business sense to get relegated.
would someone tell me if the attacking exercise in the PP Reza video was actually put into practice with crosses coming in, or did it not happen because we played 4 cm's?
yes i found that video positive but it just didnt happen anough today
And who's fault is that? He picks a narrow side just after the fans see the new strikers scoring from crosses in a training video - Not smart. We are continually beaten by sides who don't have to work very hard for the 3 points they take from us.
And who should the crosses come from? Danny Green? Maybe if we get some wide men in during the loan window we may see some different football
Exactly, it's not rocket science. Hopefully, DG will never set foot on the pitch again.
Comments
Im not on about that we havent got any good wingers im just saying if powell knew that he wasnt going to play wingers why is he working on crossing the ball in when he knew that wouldnt be game realistic
Regardless, seems a strange thing to focus on.
The wide midfielders aren't the only players that can get crosses in either.
Wilson Morrison Wood Nego
Cousins AA Poyet
Church PP Reza
Is the team that should play against sheff wed
Sordell, Church, Pigott, formerly Kermorgant, and now Reza and unpronounceable Pete.
No comparison to date.
Patently our squad lacks the ability to compete strongly in this division. I don't doubt Powell's motivational skills, but the almost total absence of attacking force in a number of recent games - only one or two shots on target, and in at least one game none at all - speaks to me of a fundamental managerial weakness. Whether by technical ability, rehearsed set-plays, native cunning or sheer brute force, it's imperative that players get past opponents to make goal-scoring chances. We have failed.
It's a proven statistic that a change of manager generally sparks an improvement in results, if only temporarily. If in a month's time we are in the same position, I think it would be negligent not to give a new man a dozen games to keep us up.
I know it was a team with a few strangers yet Sordell and Green need to stop trying to be heroes and need to use their team mates... About three times in the second half Sordell picked up the ball in the middle of their half and just ran with it when there were options available (Before shooting into a blocking man), Green was the same, he had a brilliant chance to put Wilson through on the overlap but decided to go into a cul-de-sac... Play for the shirt not the name on the back of it
Last comment about Sordell but it sadly pleases me that its not just the fans fed up with him... Wilson put a lovely cross into him at one point 2nd Half and the lazy bugger didnt even bother jumping (ironically it was the defender behind him who jumped and cleared it), a few minutes later it happened again and you saw Wilson absolutely scream at Sordell in frustration!!
Think the criticism of Thuram is a bit harsh cant say much for the last two games but the first Goal was one of those crosses put into the sort of area where the 'keeper cannot come for it, if they do then they may as well commit suicide its more sensible... the second goal again couldnt do much about
He made just the one commanding punch from a corner which cleared the ball quicker than our defenders do sometimes from such play and made some good catches, he miss-kicked it twice but those who are bemoaning that cant have been around during the times of Kiely because his distribution in the first half was excellent (quickly got rid of the ball to start new attacks as well) - He also made an excellent save shortly after it went 1-0 to stop Burke one-on-one!!
Evina needs to be loaned out to League One... He needs some confidence and its gonna start costing us... It was him sleeping that allowed Burke in for the one-on-one
Poyet is gonna be come a class player and like Cousins now I reckon he'll become a regular feature in the Midfield... Some might be surprised and disagree with me about saying this but I prefer him to Stephens, under him there would be too many sideways / backwards passing whereas Poyet will always drop deep to the Defenders pick up the ball and start an attack.
Ajdarevic... This guy really surprised me and I'd like him to stay on a perm basis, he must have been given a free-role as countless times I saw him drift over to the right by Cousins (which is a slight concern seeing he left Evina on his own a bit) yet the countless times he kept the ball in play was amazing, that with his flick-ons actually going to team mates I reckon we've found a more creative player in Midfield than Kermorgant when playing up front (Bit of a spongefoot when shooting though).
Reza... I liked the runs he kept trying to make, dropped deep to get the ball... reckon if we have him and Church up front they could leave defences paranoid with the amount of running both players do, fraid Powell needs to take him aside and get him to cut out the diving, if he did dive then well done the Referee (It was the only good thing he did all game)
All in all I reckon you've got to look at this result long term... You can see that this team is gonna be passing it around more rather than lumping it forwards and not making excuses for the defeat yet it was difficult trying to do that with the pitch how it was as the players didnt know how hard to pass the ball (when you also combine the fact when the ball would bounce it would be like a rugby ball as there were a few times when Charlton players would position themselves to bring the back under control after the bounce and it would end up elsewhere) etc... so hopefully we can really improve the pitch over the summer
Think overall it was a harsh defeat... We certainly created opportunities but (1) the ball just wouldnt sit for us or (2) We'd have Randolph in the way and I always knew coming into this match that we'd have to come up with something special to beat him
EDIT
Substitutes... I know a lot of people have criticised Powell's timing and choice of sub today yet felt he got it spot on... Church was brought on to make a nuisance of himself and like I said above... make the defenders paranoid whilst Green was put on to try and add some width (Just I doubt his instructions were definitely not to lose the ball in the middle of the pitch and so concede)...
Had we been 1-0 up I reckon Piotr would have been put on to try and hold the ball up but Church is definitely the man to use when chasing the game... Would like to see Church and Reza start against Sheffield Wednesday with Piotr given a longer cameo (Depending on the score)
The clip in no way shows what they do or don't do in training all week.
''Quite simply the squad is still not good enough, because it has been depleted as well as increased. We need to bring in two or three exceptional loan signings who speak English and are used to the pace and physicality of English football and I don't believe changing the manager at this stage as well as so many of the players would be a sensible move, even if there was an obviously better one available''.
Agree 100%.
Can you honestly see us getting British players in when we can have loans from SL, Upjest and the other clubs Roland owns.
What standard of football are these guys used to? Astrit the only loanee I'm impressed with!
I think at the moment we are just no a cost cutting exercise, having read VOTV reasons on why Yann left!
Understand Hamer might return next week, lets hope so.