This idea is growing on me. Ironically it's probably the club at the top of the tree who will benefit least from the arrangement, or at least will need the most money spent.
It's clear, though, that RD will use the network where it's beneficial but spend money where required. Qualification of 'beneficial' and 'where required' is key to that, something Prague has more than alluded to previously, but if this is a long term project then the idea of a network of clubs, managers, players is hugely exciting and will provide an answer at least in part to that question.
Probably won't save us from relegation though, but good to read elsewhere we are actively working on loans with Champ experience.
Last night over dinner I ran the RD thing past a German mate of mine who is both a keen Frankfurt fan and a regional director of Ogilvy, a WPP company and therefore a network. It's fair to say that he was puzzled by it. In particular:
- he had no idea why anyone would want to buy Jena for business reasons. For a start RD can only have bought 49%. My buddy was quite clear that the 50+1 rule stretches right down the leagues. And Jena is a small town. Red Bull bought a Leipzig club and that apparently isn't going well either
- the one that most puzzled him was Ujpest. He says Hungarian football is in a dreadful state. Match fixing rife, and hooliganism rampant. Why go to Hungary at all?
- between us we also figured that the Spanish one is odd, because "TV money" doesn't really add up as a reason. Spanish clubs have to negotiate individual rights. Apart from Real and Barca, not many are doing that successfully. (but maybe it has a good academy)
I don't mean to say that it won't work. I'm just at this time genuinely puzzled about his choice of clubs. The good thing is that ours makes the most sense because of the FAPL TV revenues. It would be really interesting to have him explain it, but I don't think he will do that, not least because he fears others will copy it.
But you may wish to consider that the owner is creating a great story or 'pitch' given that as far as the two ex communist powerhouses are concerned he has purchased 'names' at a minimal cost. But maybe he hopes to clean up by first by selling SL at a substantial profit and then plans to do the same with CAFC sooner rather than later.
In essence the other clubs are a blind or what we may consider as window dressing.
I may have watched too many Hollywood sting movies but it may all be a very clever strategy in order to do what business people try to do - make money!
Perhaps we look at it another way and RD is building a player trading network with cheap 2nd tier clubs in big cities. I acknowledge that the spanish (and Italian) tv deals are negotiated indivisually. But would Spain (and Portugal) be a good way to introduce South American players? Is it easier to get European work permits there for Argentinians especially in the 17-21 age range who won't have international honours?
I too don't know how the Hungarian club fits but perhaps over time, actions and research will reveal answers. If we can sign the right players over the next few weeks and climb out of the relegation zone with some wins then that looks like an initial success to me.
We will then see what happens to the squad over the summer with network players coming in.
Perhaps we look at it another way and RD is building a player trading network with cheap 2nd tier clubs in big cities. I acknowledge that the spanish (and Italian) tv deals are negotiated indivisually. But would Spain (and Portugal) be a good way to introduce South American players? Is it easier to get European work permits there for Argentinians especially in the 17-21 age range who won't have international honours?
I too don't know how the Hungarian club fits but perhaps over time, actions and research will reveal answers. If we can sign the right players over the next few weeks and climb out of the relegation zone with some wins then that looks like an initial success to me.
We will then see what happens to the squad over the summer with network players coming in.
I have taken a look at KZ Jena. It isn't a "2nd tier club in a big city". It's in the North eastern Regional league, a level below the national 3rd division. Attendance figures for the club are not given, but the average for the league last season was 1,809. Jena as a city has a population of 107,000, although it is a reasonably well populated part of Thuringia. But Erfurt, its bigger neighbour, has its own club. The stadium is currently like many I have seen in Eastern Europe,decrepit, open save for one stand, and with a running track around it. And it seems that it is a hot topic. There is a lobby to reconstruct it, as a multi-purpose stadium, and the fans seem to want that. As far as I can tell, it would be rebuilt by the city with public funds.
It really doesn't look promising. This is no sleeping giant.
However, possibly the Wikipedia page on the city itself holds a clue to RD's interest.
"The city's economy is based on high-tech industry and research, making Jena an innovation centre in Germany. Optical and precession industry is the leading branch to date, while software engineering, other digital businesses and biotechnology are of growing importance." That fits with RD's own business. Why he would invest in the local football club still isn't clear even so, but I suspect this is not a coincidence.
Just had a piece about our recent changes on sky soccer Saturday. The panel not impressed with goings on at all. Powell in a very very difficult position.
Prague it certainly is a puzzle! It sounds like that's how RD heard about the opportunity to pick the club up ... a high tech bod who was a supporter? Having listened to Richard Murray the other night, my focus is on the calibre of loan signings over next couple of weeks. RD is picking certain clubs up for buttons. How the football talent is improved and managed will become apparent. For instance these Liege players at CAFC - will they make a difference; are they here to help, or because they are already on the group payroll or a bit of both. I want to see some games before I make a call on that. And I think we will all have a better idea by 5pm 15th March. On a different note I think Powell has to fight for his career in the game - whether this is at CAFC or not is totally unclear. It looks like he's staying put for now and a couple of decent results will shore up his position.
Perhaps we look at it another way and RD is building a player trading network with cheap 2nd tier clubs in big cities. I acknowledge that the spanish (and Italian) tv deals are negotiated indivisually. But would Spain (and Portugal) be a good way to introduce South American players? Is it easier to get European work permits there for Argentinians especially in the 17-21 age range who won't have international honours?
I too don't know how the Hungarian club fits but perhaps over time, actions and research will reveal answers. If we can sign the right players over the next few weeks and climb out of the relegation zone with some wins then that looks like an initial success to me.
We will then see what happens to the squad over the summer with network players coming in.
I have taken a look at KZ Jena. It isn't a "2nd tier club in a big city". It's in the North eastern Regional league, a level below the national 3rd division. Attendance figures for the club are not given, but the average for the league last season was 1,809. Jena as a city has a population of 107,000, although it is a reasonably well populated part of Thuringia. But Erfurt, its bigger neighbour, has its own club. The stadium is currently like many I have seen in Eastern Europe,decrepit, open save for one stand, and with a running track around it. And it seems that it is a hot topic. There is a lobby to reconstruct it, as a multi-purpose stadium, and the fans seem to want that. As far as I can tell, it would be rebuilt by the city with public funds.
It really doesn't look promising. This is no sleeping giant.
However, possibly the Wikipedia page on the city itself holds a clue to RD's interest.
"The city's economy is based on high-tech industry and research, making Jena an innovation centre in Germany. Optical and precession industry is the leading branch to date, while software engineering, other digital businesses and biotechnology are of growing importance." That fits with RD's own business. Why he would invest in the local football club still isn't clear even so, but I suspect this is not a coincidence.
"Still puzzled" , of Prague
To me this is a theory from an intelligent man that is developing in practice. There are various ways of making money in football but very few are really successful. The most obvious is promotion to the Premier League, and perhaps then to sell on. Another would be to qualify for the Champions League. Another to grow your own players and sell them on, or to be smart in the transfer market - the approach Ashley and Jiminez appear to favour. Most owners lose money.
The network is essentially a development of the traditional feeder model, which is what RD had with Standard Liege and Sint-Truiden. The advantages of owning both clubs are obvious, but of course the more clubs you own, offering different things to the network and providing different opportunities, the more opportunity to profit - and perhaps as importantly, to spread risk - in playing assets as much as in anything else.
I think in principle, you would buy clubs who have a realistic Champions League opportunity in the foreseeable, or within countries whose leagues are of strong financial standing and where the clubs purchased stand a chance of ascension to the top revenues. So as well as my home country of Belgium, I'd be looking at England (check), Spain (check), Germany (check). Italy, France and possibly Portugal would also figure in my thinking, assuming I could pick up the club cheap enough (Jena cost €2m, with a aim of BL2 within 5 years).
One thing that seems to be common to all RD's purchases is that there is, to varying degrees, development opportunity. Clearly the numbers being bandied about shows the potential within SL, we know the potential within our club, and many of the others have promotion or competition opportunity which would enhance their value.
So, what if you were bold enough to think that your network and your money could qualify currently smaller clubs for the Champions League? Ujpest might look an odd purchase to us, but they were in the Europa League as recently as the 2009/10 season having been League runners-up the previous season - just one more place and they'd have been in the Champions League qualifiers. Historically they are one of the most successful clubs in Hungary. What if RD could qualify them for a group stage within 10 years? Prize money aside, a club at the peak of its value ripe for selling on?
And what if the network could sustain a group of players who could be 'distributed' across the clubs in accordance with their ability and the standing of the club they were assigned to? Would it be possible to improve Ujpest in Hungary with Liege reserves? Undoubtedly, I'm sure it would. Or promising young players from Charlton? Could Joe Piggott spend a season on loan next year to help them improve? Would it reduce transfer expenditure across the network? Absolutely!
And if Ujpest were promoted and their standing increased, they might attract a little investment to further develop the profit opportunity. And so on.
Personally I can see profit opportunity in all these clubs individually, but the network view probably offers the greatest insight.
And take it a step further - what if you could develop a brand opportunity across your network? Well, you'd want to exploit the EU first, but I wonder where RD's first non-EU purchase will be? China? Brazil? What if you were to sell an entire network of clubs, to say, Red Bull? I think this is an unlikely scenario though, but it wouldn't surprise me should similar ideas have crossed RD's thought lines.
The other obvious opportunity, which perhaps might play to a concern particularly sensitive to Charlton supporters, is to purchase the clubs, and seek to sell on at a future date but retain ownership of the grounds, creating revenue and profit opportunity from leasing back to the clubs. Not without risk, but probably a relatively easy dollar too.
The Hungarian and East German clubs would've been cheap to buy and give access to affordable talent. They also provide a platform for young players to play competitively.
Some good posts on here - a lot of food for thought. I suppose we have no choice but to wait and see what happens; I get the feeling it's either going to be very good for our club, or very bad.... time will tell.
On a slightly different note. Does anybody remember a very young Michael Turner spending a year at Internazionale in an exchange arrangement. He was young, but I think he was probably positive in engaging with that experience, despite having to adapt to very new, and somewhat alien and lonely circumstances.
Michael has gone on to make it in the game.
I do not think the Michael Turner success is possible to replicate with every young player uprooted from home and family, and encouraged to move hither and thither around a European network of clubs. A young George Best was homesick when only in Manchester.
To think of all the players as a farm, and a stable of talent, is OK in theory, but much more messy in practice. It can't be easily assumed that players can settle in circumstances that are foreign to them, even if football is the universal language.
I suppose I am saying that with players, especially younger players, there is a substantial human and organic variable inbuilt that you don't get when dealing with stark numbers.
If Roland is building a network model he might want to consider the degree to which human resources are managed, and players supported. I suppose supported but not indulged. To have success everybody needs to remain mindful that proper resources would have to be put in. I bet any hovering agents will insist loan 'riders' more lavish than on any Rolling Stones tour!
Is it all as easy as telling Loic, 'pack your bags mate, you're going to live in a bedsit in Plumstead for the next six months and work for Charlton, enjoy'?
Best thing I ever did in my career was spend a year working in Saudi Arabia. I wish I'd done it as a younger man.
I think in football more young players should pursue their education in different football cultures. I feel confident more would become better players than not, even if it's a step down in status.
Perhaps the key in this is your last sentence. Treat the player as a resource and you'll be limiting what's possible; treat them as a human being and get their buy-in to the opportunity and you'll find more success I'm sure.
Which reminds me. It struck me today quite why the Director of Football model hasn't succeeded in England as it has on the continent. The British game has traditionally been built on, as much as ability, the never-say-die spirit. It makes the English game the most admired in terms of excitement at least. There's no point throwing a 'resource' into this mix. Ability is only part of the picture.
I wonder if RD's first mistake is not recognising how important this is over here, perhaps evidenced by the sale of Kermorgant - and the way in which it came about - more than any other dealing. It might be something those with access to Katrien Meire might want to stress to her, before Chris Powell has any more players foistered upon him without the 'character' due diligence that's become his trademark every bit as much as it was Curbs's.
Good point - but ability wins out every time and this country needs to change - to find a way to join its best elements with the best elements from the continent. Having youth links with clubs from other countries can only benefit all parties in the long run IMO.
Good point - but ability wins out every time and this country needs to change - to find a way to join its best elements with the best elements from the continent. Having youth links with clubs from other countries can only benefit all parties in the long run IMO.
Yes but let's not gamble at senior level when a relegation battle means character will be of primary importance.
I'd argue, by the way, that had Liverpool been 3-0 up rather than down Ac Milan wouldn't have found a way back...
The 'network' may be a sound business model, but I can't help thinking that to a fan craving thrills, things might be a tad dull. If transfers are largely restricted to clubs within the Duchatelet stable, the possibility of recruiting fresh new blood from elsewhere is denied. A very restricted gene pool is highly unhealthy; just look at the population of Norfolk.
And I'm ambivalent about our academy graduates. Are they 'Charltonised', ingrained with caution, OK at tippity-tappity sideways moves but lacking a bit of beef and forward incisiveness? Poyet looks promising, but I have yet to be convinced that Cousins is anything special. Harriott and Pigott are lower-league standard.
By restricting our options we are blind to the possibility of the unexpected, of recruiting a player from an unlikely source, of splashing out on a proven winner.
The 'network' may be a sound business model, but I can't help thinking that to a fan craving thrills, things might be a tad dull. If transfers are largely restricted to clubs within the Duchatelet stable, the possibility of recruiting fresh new blood from elsewhere is denied. A very restricted gene pool is highly unhealthy; just look at the population of Norfolk.
And I'm ambivalent about our academy graduates. Are they 'Charltonised', ingrained with caution, OK at tippity-tappity sideways moves but lacking a bit of beef and forward incisiveness? Poyet looks promising, but I have yet to be convinced that Cousins is anything special. Harriott and Pigott are lower-league standard.
By restricting our options we are blind to the possibility of the unexpected, of recruiting a player from an unlikely source, of splashing out on a proven winner.
Harriot and Pigott are lower-league standard player in a lower league standard team right now, let's not pretend otherwise. With few exceptions, these are decent to good League One players playing above their natural level. Poyet and Cousins both look like they could go on to bigger and better things to me - Shelvey and even Jenkinson prove there are Premiership quality youth products coming through the Charlton academy at the moment, and an injury-free Solly I would rate just as highly.
I also think your insistence that we are blind to other opportunities is just factually and provably wrong - Pete The Plumber wasn't a RD stable signing, and he comes much higher rated than the likes of Jordan Cook or Bradley Pritchard, both of whom were gambles on signing and in the latter was a very good signing for the league we were in at the time.
Firstly, let me say that I believe we will stay up. I also picked out on some of the positives for players and coaches in an earlier thread and repeated earlier here.
However, as an aside to a really good thread. I am wondering how TJ/MS feel about the sale of three key players in January when they agreed a sale to RD which was structured to reduce by £4m to £14m if we got relegated. Horrible for us and not something I want to contemplate, but a £4m pot suddenly appears for RD to make use of across his network.
Last night over dinner I ran the RD thing past a German mate of mine who is both a keen Frankfurt fan and a regional director of Ogilvy, a WPP company and therefore a network. It's fair to say that he was puzzled by it. In particular:
- he had no idea why anyone would want to buy Jena for business reasons. For a start RD can only have bought 49%. My buddy was quite clear that the 50+1 rule stretches right down the leagues. And Jena is a small town. Red Bull bought a Leipzig club and that apparently isn't going well either
- the one that most puzzled him was Ujpest. He says Hungarian football is in a dreadful state. Match fixing rife, and hooliganism rampant. Why go to Hungary at all?
- between us we also figured that the Spanish one is odd, because "TV money" doesn't really add up as a reason. Spanish clubs have to negotiate individual rights. Apart from Real and Barca, not many are doing that successfully. (but maybe it has a good academy)
I don't mean to say that it won't work. I'm just at this time genuinely puzzled about his choice of clubs. The good thing is that ours makes the most sense because of the FAPL TV revenues. It would be really interesting to have him explain it, but I don't think he will do that, not least because he fears others will copy it.
PA,
I think you have to factor in RD,s personal outlook and remember the guy has always been a firebrand in terms of social activism. O i think he genuinely likes the sense of history and social benevolence that comes with a charlton or a carl Zeiss. When 8/10 championship clubs are open to offers, why did he choose us? I believe the sense of history and in particular the Valley Party activism would have been very atttactive factors for him.
From what I've been reading over the past 2 month on Rd he has an over riding.sense of history and community in all his projects. Seems to want to be seen as a factor for regeneration using more clever methods than pure donation. This seems to fit in with modern thinking of the best form of "Charity", not hand outs but merely a more level playing field for the lesser haves.
If he gets Carl Zeiss back to the bundesliga that will be quite some acheivement
Whatever the future, RD has created a platform for some very interesting discussions that have extend well beyond the immediate interests of this club. Thank you CL for providing this excellent forum. One thing is certain; the pro's and con's of his new ownership will be the subject of endless debate for some time to come!) Life under the previous owners (tweedle Dum & Tweedle Dee) was very boring compared to this!
Good point - but ability wins out every time and this country needs to change - to find a way to join its best elements with the best elements from the continent. Having youth links with clubs from other countries can only benefit all parties in the long run IMO.
Yes but let's not gamble at senior level when a relegation battle means character will be of primary importance.
I'd argue, by the way, that had Liverpool been 3-0 up rather than down Ac Milan wouldn't have found a way back...
And if Liverpool only had English/British players they wouldn't have even made the final!
Firstly, let me say that I believe we will stay up. I also picked out on some of the positives for players and coaches in an earlier thread and repeated earlier here.
However, as an aside to a really good thread. I am wondering how TJ/MS feel about the sale of three key players in January when they agreed a sale to RD which was structured to reduce by £4m to £14m if we got relegated. Horrible for us and not something I want to contemplate, but a £4m pot suddenly appears for RD to make use of across his network.
Tel, I also think we will stay up, (however you're the one with the £20 bet with Pete). The thing that gets me is that as a owner of a club you can't bet on your club, but you can do this sort of thing. What's the difference?
Just having a look at Ujpest. Currently 10th in the first division of 16 clubs. Currently nine points off a Europa league place, six points above a relegation place. That shows potential. However ...average attendances 1,635, highest 2,467. Three young Belgians in the squad, One of them has played previously for both Standard and Sint-Truiden, one just for S-T.. Two Spaniards, but neither have done time in the network. OK..now get these admission prices for league games: walk up prices are between £2.30 and £6.60. Now, if you have an average price of £4 per person, an average of 1,700 gate, and 15 home games, your turnstile revenue for the whole season is £102,000. There will be TV money and sponsorship, but this is Hungary. This reliable looking article suggests that Hungarian League TV money is around €500,000. So that suggests that Ujpest's total annual revenue is around £500,000, or around the money we are reported to have offered Yann.
The same article however points out what riches can be earned by qualifying for the UCL (far less so for the Europa League). It is difficult to estimate from the opaque explanations avaialble but they would probably treble their revenue just by getting to the playoff stage in UCL.
And yet, and yet. What about the wages of the players coming from Belgium? Even if they are young reserves, they have to be very expensive by local standards.
I must confess that, it being close to my kind of business in structural terms, I am fascinated by it. But I am still far from sure that I understand it, even in business terms.
Well, someone must be subsidising and I doubt that it is institutional lending so it must be investment. From RD? or is he not the only one pumping money in to oil the network?
Good point - but ability wins out every time and this country needs to change - to find a way to join its best elements with the best elements from the continent. Having youth links with clubs from other countries can only benefit all parties in the long run IMO.
Yes but let's not gamble at senior level when a relegation battle means character will be of primary importance.
I'd argue, by the way, that had Liverpool been 3-0 up rather than down Ac Milan wouldn't have found a way back...
And if Liverpool only had English/British players they wouldn't have even made the final!
Who said anything about nationality? There are enough gutless English players out there. Danny Green being one obvious example. Ravel Morrison being a higher profile one. Oh for even one player like Vincent Kompany in our side who combines ability, character and leadership seemingly effortlessly.
My point was that managers anywhere - but particularly in England - have to build squads with more than just ability. If the manager has players foisted upon them with little more than a technical match then it will be almost impossible to develop a strong and consistent team spirit, the likes of which has been at the heart of modern Charlton success.
Just having a look at Ujpest. Currently 10th in the first division of 16 clubs. Currently nine points off a Europa league place, six points above a relegation place. That shows potential. However ...average attendances 1,635, highest 2,467. Three young Belgians in the squad, One of them has played previously for both Standard and Sint-Truiden, one just for S-T.. Two Spaniards, but neither have done time in the network. OK..now get these admission prices for league games: walk up prices are between £2.30 and £6.60. Now, if you have an average price of £4 per person, an average of 1,700 gate, and 15 home games, your turnstile revenue for the whole season is £102,000. There will be TV money and sponsorship, but this is Hungary. This reliable looking article suggests that Hungarian League TV money is around €500,000. So that suggests that Ujpest's total annual revenue is around £500,000, or around the money we are reported to have offered Yann.
The same article however points out what riches can be earned by qualifying for the UCL (far less so for the Europa League). It is difficult to estimate from the opaque explanations avaialble but they would probably treble their revenue just by getting to the playoff stage in UCL.
And yet, and yet. What about the wages of the players coming from Belgium? Even if they are young reserves, they have to be very expensive by local standards.
I must confess that, it being close to my kind of business in structural terms, I am fascinated by it. But I am still far from sure that I understand it, even in business terms.
The other issue with FFP is that it benefits clubs with parachute payments all the more, as these increase their turnover. The parachute payments themselves are also being increased and lasting for longer, so before you know it we will be competing against half the division on subsidies from a brief spell in the Prem. FFP will therefore not level the playing field at all.
So they should deduct the parachute payments from the turnover for these clubs.(?).
Comments
It's clear, though, that RD will use the network where it's beneficial but spend money where required. Qualification of 'beneficial' and 'where required' is key to that, something Prague has more than alluded to previously, but if this is a long term project then the idea of a network of clubs, managers, players is hugely exciting and will provide an answer at least in part to that question.
Probably won't save us from relegation though, but good to read elsewhere we are actively working on loans with Champ experience.
- he had no idea why anyone would want to buy Jena for business reasons. For a start RD can only have bought 49%. My buddy was quite clear that the 50+1 rule stretches right down the leagues. And Jena is a small town. Red Bull bought a Leipzig club and that apparently isn't going well either
- the one that most puzzled him was Ujpest. He says Hungarian football is in a dreadful state. Match fixing rife, and hooliganism rampant. Why go to Hungary at all?
- between us we also figured that the Spanish one is odd, because "TV money" doesn't really add up as a reason. Spanish clubs have to negotiate individual rights. Apart from Real and Barca, not many are doing that successfully. (but maybe it has a good academy)
I don't mean to say that it won't work. I'm just at this time genuinely puzzled about his choice of clubs. The good thing is that ours makes the most sense because of the FAPL TV revenues. It would be really interesting to have him explain it, but I don't think he will do that, not least because he fears others will copy it.
But you may wish to consider that the owner is creating a great story or 'pitch' given that as far as the two ex communist powerhouses are concerned he has purchased 'names' at a minimal cost. But maybe he hopes to clean up by first by selling SL at a substantial profit and then plans to do the same with CAFC sooner rather than later.
In essence the other clubs are a blind or what we may consider as window dressing.
I may have watched too many Hollywood sting movies but it may all be a very clever strategy in order to do what business people try to do - make money!
I too don't know how the Hungarian club fits but perhaps over time, actions and research will reveal answers. If we can sign the right players over the next few weeks and climb out of the relegation zone with some wins then that looks like an initial success to me.
We will then see what happens to the squad over the summer with network players coming in.
The stadium is currently like many I have seen in Eastern Europe,decrepit, open save for one stand, and with a running track around it. And it seems that it is a hot topic. There is a lobby to reconstruct it, as a multi-purpose stadium, and the fans seem to want that. As far as I can tell, it would be rebuilt by the city with public funds.
It really doesn't look promising. This is no sleeping giant.
However, possibly the Wikipedia page on the city itself holds a clue to RD's interest.
"The city's economy is based on high-tech industry and research, making Jena an innovation centre in Germany. Optical and precession industry is the leading branch to date, while software engineering, other digital businesses and biotechnology are of growing importance." That fits with RD's own business. Why he would invest in the local football club still isn't clear even so, but I suspect this is not a coincidence.
"Still puzzled" , of Prague
RD is picking certain clubs up for buttons. How the football talent is improved and managed will become apparent. For instance these Liege players at CAFC - will they make a difference; are they here to help, or because they are already on the group payroll or a bit of both.
I want to see some games before I make a call on that. And I think we will all have a better idea by 5pm 15th March.
On a different note I think Powell has to fight for his career in the game - whether this is at CAFC or not is totally unclear. It looks like he's staying put for now and a couple of decent results will shore up his position.
The network is essentially a development of the traditional feeder model, which is what RD had with Standard Liege and Sint-Truiden. The advantages of owning both clubs are obvious, but of course the more clubs you own, offering different things to the network and providing different opportunities, the more opportunity to profit - and perhaps as importantly, to spread risk - in playing assets as much as in anything else.
I think in principle, you would buy clubs who have a realistic Champions League opportunity in the foreseeable, or within countries whose leagues are of strong financial standing and where the clubs purchased stand a chance of ascension to the top revenues. So as well as my home country of Belgium, I'd be looking at England (check), Spain (check), Germany (check). Italy, France and possibly Portugal would also figure in my thinking, assuming I could pick up the club cheap enough (Jena cost €2m, with a aim of BL2 within 5 years).
One thing that seems to be common to all RD's purchases is that there is, to varying degrees, development opportunity. Clearly the numbers being bandied about shows the potential within SL, we know the potential within our club, and many of the others have promotion or competition opportunity which would enhance their value.
So, what if you were bold enough to think that your network and your money could qualify currently smaller clubs for the Champions League? Ujpest might look an odd purchase to us, but they were in the Europa League as recently as the 2009/10 season having been League runners-up the previous season - just one more place and they'd have been in the Champions League qualifiers. Historically they are one of the most successful clubs in Hungary. What if RD could qualify them for a group stage within 10 years? Prize money aside, a club at the peak of its value ripe for selling on?
And what if the network could sustain a group of players who could be 'distributed' across the clubs in accordance with their ability and the standing of the club they were assigned to? Would it be possible to improve Ujpest in Hungary with Liege reserves? Undoubtedly, I'm sure it would. Or promising young players from Charlton? Could Joe Piggott spend a season on loan next year to help them improve? Would it reduce transfer expenditure across the network? Absolutely!
And if Ujpest were promoted and their standing increased, they might attract a little investment to further develop the profit opportunity. And so on.
Personally I can see profit opportunity in all these clubs individually, but the network view probably offers the greatest insight.
And take it a step further - what if you could develop a brand opportunity across your network? Well, you'd want to exploit the EU first, but I wonder where RD's first non-EU purchase will be? China? Brazil? What if you were to sell an entire network of clubs, to say, Red Bull? I think this is an unlikely scenario though, but it wouldn't surprise me should similar ideas have crossed RD's thought lines.
The other obvious opportunity, which perhaps might play to a concern particularly sensitive to Charlton supporters, is to purchase the clubs, and seek to sell on at a future date but retain ownership of the grounds, creating revenue and profit opportunity from leasing back to the clubs. Not without risk, but probably a relatively easy dollar too.
Michael has gone on to make it in the game.
I do not think the Michael Turner success is possible to replicate with every young player uprooted from home and family, and encouraged to move hither and thither around a European network of clubs. A young George Best was homesick when only in Manchester.
To think of all the players as a farm, and a stable of talent, is OK in theory, but much more messy in practice. It can't be easily assumed that players can settle in circumstances that are foreign to them, even if football is the universal language.
I suppose I am saying that with players, especially younger players, there is a substantial human and organic variable inbuilt that you don't get when dealing with stark numbers.
If Roland is building a network model he might want to consider the degree to which human resources are managed, and players supported. I suppose supported but not indulged. To have success everybody needs to remain mindful that proper resources would have to be put in. I bet any hovering agents will insist loan 'riders' more lavish than on any Rolling Stones tour!
Is it all as easy as telling Loic, 'pack your bags mate, you're going to live in a bedsit in Plumstead for the next six months and work for Charlton, enjoy'?
I think in football more young players should pursue their education in different football cultures. I feel confident more would become better players than not, even if it's a step down in status.
Perhaps the key in this is your last sentence. Treat the player as a resource and you'll be limiting what's possible; treat them as a human being and get their buy-in to the opportunity and you'll find more success I'm sure.
Which reminds me. It struck me today quite why the Director of Football model hasn't succeeded in England as it has on the continent. The British game has traditionally been built on, as much as ability, the never-say-die spirit. It makes the English game the most admired in terms of excitement at least. There's no point throwing a 'resource' into this mix. Ability is only part of the picture.
I wonder if RD's first mistake is not recognising how important this is over here, perhaps evidenced by the sale of Kermorgant - and the way in which it came about - more than any other dealing. It might be something those with access to Katrien Meire might want to stress to her, before Chris Powell has any more players foistered upon him without the 'character' due diligence that's become his trademark every bit as much as it was Curbs's.
I'd argue, by the way, that had Liverpool been 3-0 up rather than down Ac Milan wouldn't have found a way back...
And I'm ambivalent about our academy graduates. Are they 'Charltonised', ingrained with caution, OK at tippity-tappity sideways moves but lacking a bit of beef and forward incisiveness? Poyet looks promising, but I have yet to be convinced that Cousins is anything special. Harriott and Pigott are lower-league standard.
By restricting our options we are blind to the possibility of the unexpected, of recruiting a player from an unlikely source, of splashing out on a proven winner.
I also think your insistence that we are blind to other opportunities is just factually and provably wrong - Pete The Plumber wasn't a RD stable signing, and he comes much higher rated than the likes of Jordan Cook or Bradley Pritchard, both of whom were gambles on signing and in the latter was a very good signing for the league we were in at the time.
However, as an aside to a really good thread. I am wondering how TJ/MS feel about the sale of three key players in January when they agreed a sale to RD which was structured to reduce by £4m to £14m if we got relegated. Horrible for us and not something I want to contemplate, but a £4m pot suddenly appears for RD to make use of across his network.
I think you have to factor in RD,s personal outlook and remember the guy has always been a firebrand in terms of social activism.
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i think he genuinely likes the sense of history and social benevolence that comes with a charlton or a carl Zeiss. When 8/10 championship clubs are open to offers, why did he choose us? I believe the sense of history and in particular the Valley Party activism would have been very atttactive factors for him.
From what I've been reading over the past 2 month on Rd he has an over riding.sense of history and community in all his projects. Seems to want to be seen as a factor for regeneration using more clever methods than pure donation. This seems to fit in with modern thinking of the best form of "Charity", not hand outs but merely a more level playing field for the lesser haves.
If he gets Carl Zeiss back to the bundesliga that will be quite some acheivement
Three young Belgians in the squad, One of them has played previously for both Standard and Sint-Truiden, one just for S-T.. Two Spaniards, but neither have done time in the network.
OK..now get these admission prices for league games: walk up prices are between £2.30 and £6.60. Now, if you have an average price of £4 per person, an average of 1,700 gate, and 15 home games, your turnstile revenue for the whole season is £102,000. There will be TV money and sponsorship, but this is Hungary. This reliable looking article suggests that Hungarian League TV money is around €500,000. So that suggests that Ujpest's total annual revenue is around £500,000, or around the money we are reported to have offered Yann.
The same article however points out what riches can be earned by qualifying for the UCL (far less so for the Europa League). It is difficult to estimate from the opaque explanations avaialble but they would probably treble their revenue just by getting to the playoff stage in UCL.
And yet, and yet. What about the wages of the players coming from Belgium? Even if they are young reserves, they have to be very expensive by local standards.
I must confess that, it being close to my kind of business in structural terms, I am fascinated by it. But I am still far from sure that I understand it, even in business terms.
Any thoughts?
My point was that managers anywhere - but particularly in England - have to build squads with more than just ability. If the manager has players foisted upon them with little more than a technical match then it will be almost impossible to develop a strong and consistent team spirit, the likes of which has been at the heart of modern Charlton success.