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Alnwick to Leyton Orient (ed. SOLD)

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    I would agree distribution was not Alnwick's strongest point. Hamer is better in that respect. Alnwick has been playing well and on the surface this seems a crazy decision. But We had 3 senior keepers available - one who I have yet to see live but despite his crucial mistake apparently is a top class keeper (the best we currently have on paper anyway), Alnwick and Hamer who is injured so not likely to be bid for. Added to that we have a good young prospect in Pope out on loan. So perhaps selling Alnwick was inevitable and we made a profit. If all this leads to us being able to put out a better 11 that keeps us up I'll be happy.
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    Alnwick leaving is not going to have an effect one way or another on whether we survive in this league or not. Other positions will.
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    Dale stephens 84 games 10 goals in the league

    Yann kerm 89 games 29 goals in the league

    although kerms record is alright a third of these games were in league 1, so hardly jaw dropping statistics

    Oh ok, I didn't realise that goals scored was the only relevant statistic when assessing how important a player is. I've got some bad news for you about Thuram-Ulien - no goals in 84 appearances throughout his career so far.
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    Roland rules again.
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    One thing we all agree on is that this squad needs refreshing. They did an outstanding job last year but the lack of investment and new players has caused them to stagnate. If we sell a keeper and still have two good ones at the club then we can invest in the positions we need to fill - selling Stephens and topping up his fee with the sale of Alnwick could get us a superior replacement for Dale with little depleting effect on our squad. Surely that's a good thing?

    sell the family silver to bring in some ASDA crockery ? .. I exaggerate .. but you get my drift
    Are either of those players the family silver? And what makes you think the players we have brought in aren't any good? I'd hardly describe Stephens and Alnwick as the jewel in our relegation zoned crown. The main thing about this transfer for me is there are areas of the squad that need to be improved and we're funding it by selling from an area where we have an excess. That's sensible.
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    MrLargo said:

    Dale stephens 84 games 10 goals in the league

    Yann kerm 89 games 29 goals in the league

    although kerms record is alright a third of these games were in league 1, so hardly jaw dropping statistics

    Oh ok, I didn't realise that goals scored was the only relevant statistic when assessing how important a player is. I've got some bad news for you about Thuram-Ulien - no goals in 84 appearances throughout his career so far.

    hahaha do you even understand football? a striker and an attacking mids job is to score goals? whats the point in having them if they dont want to score? stupid statement to make
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    The only player to come away from Doncester with any credit.

    His distribution at Doncaster was at times poor. At one point we had been defending our goal, the entire Charlton team was in our half, and he elected to kick the ball as far as possible, the ball made the opposition penalty area and our nearest player was around the centre circle. This handed possession to Doncaster, who set up their next attack and kept the pressure on us.
    you're picking on ONE mistake as a justification for transferring him !!?? .. by that token all 15 should be sent down the road

    No you are choosing to misread my post. My post makes no comment on the transfer favourable or otherwise.

    My post was in response to a post about his performance at Doncaster. I criticised one aspect of his play. I gave one example of this aspect. There were more examples available.


    and on more than one occasion he made a quick clever long throw to set up a break/attack which on the night came to nothing as did so much else .. you are making rather one eyed attempts here to justify the unjustifiable .. BUT .. you're entitled to your view .. but you might consider getting a new pair of specs before the next game
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    The only player to come away from Doncester with any credit.

    His distribution at Doncaster was at times poor. At one point we had been defending our goal, the entire Charlton team was in our half, and he elected to kick the ball as far as possible, the ball made the opposition penalty area and our nearest player was around the centre circle. This handed possession to Doncaster, who set up their next attack and kept the pressure on us.
    Strange how differently people view the same match. I thought Alnwick's distribution was excellent, bar the one kick that you've highlighted. His throwing was very accurate and spent little time deliberating over whether to throw it or not, like many keepers do, just got it straight out to the wing backs for them to run on to.

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    The future for modern football managers will change, and I suspect Chris Powell knows that. I once spoke to Fred Lucas of this parish and he told me that he was sold from Charlton to Luton without knowing anything about it, and the chairmen has sorted it out.
    The days of clubs being run by candlestick makers, with a gruff sheepskin coated manager getting the players fit by running up and down the terraces are long gone.
    I also suspect the days of the autocratic all powerful manager such as the bloke now at Chelsea, or the last Manchester United manager are numbered too.
    We are a global village, especially in Europe, and especially when it comes to football. Owners such as Roland, and the Watford crowd will come in more and more, the new technologies and the media will also shift things and make things more instant.
    Chris Powell is in a situation where he can dig in his heels and refuse to be persuaded of anything because of pride, and a belief that he should call ALL the shots, or he can recognise the new reality and deal with it, which I suspect he has done so far.
    However Football can be an emotional and irrational thing very often, and as a man who is emotional, loyal, and in love with the game, Chris has to balance the feeling side (ie loyalty to Yann and the other players) with the more objective side as demonstrated by Roland.
    To Roland it must make pure sense to supply a well regarded French international keeper, and then let a keeper with a one year contract go, especially as it looks as if we can turn a profit on the estimable Ben Alnwick. To Roland the Yann situation is probably guided by a form of logic more than anything else.
    Incidentally Alnwick, who has moved around a lot, bided his time, took his chance well, and responded brilliantly. I hope he is a success at Leyton Orient, and I hope they get promoted with him (especially if we get extra money if they go up!)
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    stonemuse said:

    In my opinion, there's not much to choose between Hamer and Alnwick. Both have strengths and weaknessess. I have a feeling that Alwick was told he'd be second or third choice once Hamer was fit and his agent may have manufactured the move. Just a thought...

    There is only one guy who is going to be number one and its the guy that cost us points at Middlesborough,
    harsh. As I doubt you were there AFKA, with all due respect, how can you comment on his performance?

    Harsh maybe, but the reality is Alnwick is CURRENTLY our number one keeper, and has been over the last month. Our manager has had a new keeper sent to him that he did not want, and i believe, been told to play him. He did so at Boro, and regardless of whether he pulled off some good saves, made a howler that determined the result.

    Alnwick come back into the side, performed very well. At Doncaster i have heard it suggested (entirely up to you whether you believe me or not) Powell was told to play Thuram by RD / RD's people, Powell went against it and played the player he wanted to play, Alnwick.

    Three days later Alnwick is sold, and rumours circ that Powell was close to being sacked.

    Thuram may well turn out to be a much better keeper than any we currently have, but that is irrelevent. He was not the choice of those whose decisions it should be who play and who don't.

    Should Powell walk ?? Of course he should. His position has been completely undermined and is currently untenable.

    However, you saw how the ridiculous similar farce at Cardiff turned out and Malky McKay refusing to hand in his notice in a similar situation. I wonder if Powell is mates with Malky by any chance...



    Why have you not talked about church's two howlers that he fucked up and did not score which determined the result?

    because it is completely irrespective to my point. My point is the manager is being told what goalkeeper to play.
    but you don't know that AFKA ... it's just guesswork and supposition. If you are right, I agree ... but I'm not convinced yet. Let's see where we are at 11 pm.
    As said, just my view based on what i've been told. Everyone is entitled to their own view.

    And as much as i like Powell, i would not believe a single word he says in the press or in public.

    With the greatest respect AFKA your argument can't lose can it ? Selective choice of what you believe.

    I suppose we're all guilty of that.

    Can't lose? I'm not trying to 'win' anything. i'm just stating my point.

    I think our club is currently a farce. We are attempting what appears to be a whole summer transition within the space of three days.

    - Our manager (from what i've been told) is having little or no so in what is coming in or going out

    - It now appears a strong possibility he is being leaned on on who to play. Certainly the case with the keep at Donny

    - Our Chairman appears to have no idea who it is who is deciding who comes and goes

    - Squad morale is said to be shot to pieces

    - Regardless of what may come in today, We have offloaded a fair spine of the team with our currently best performing keeping, currently best performing midfielder, and at some point today our best performing striker and fans favourite.

    There is no attempt to be selective, those are the stand out points to me.

    Yet you don't believe what our manager said himself at a press conference just yesterday. Why ? because it doesn't fit in with your views. That's fair enough because I know that you probably hear things that the majority of us don't get to hear so whilst you are making a judgement based on that I am making mine on the words from the horses mouth. Of course CP could be just an outright liar but when he says he's in the loop and knows what is going on and is in close communication with the owner "Roland" then I am happy to take him on his word.

    I agree that I doubt CP knows exactly where this brave new world will lead but at this point I think he's giving it his best shot because like all of us he doesn't know it won't work.

    I refuse to think that this is all bad until proved otherwise including the conspiracy theories.

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    Rob62 said:



    stonemuse said:

    In my opinion, there's not much to choose between Hamer and Alnwick. Both have strengths and weaknessess. I have a feeling that Alwick was told he'd be second or third choice once Hamer was fit and his agent may have manufactured the move. Just a thought...

    There is only one guy who is going to be number one and its the guy that cost us points at Middlesborough,
    harsh. As I doubt you were there AFKA, with all due respect, how can you comment on his performance?

    Harsh maybe, but the reality is Alnwick is CURRENTLY our number one keeper, and has been over the last month. Our manager has had a new keeper sent to him that he did not want, and i believe, been told to play him. He did so at Boro, and regardless of whether he pulled off some good saves, made a howler that determined the result.

    Alnwick come back into the side, performed very well. At Doncaster i have heard it suggested (entirely up to you whether you believe me or not) Powell was told to play Thuram by RD / RD's people, Powell went against it and played the player he wanted to play, Alnwick.

    Three days later Alnwick is sold, and rumours circ that Powell was close to being sacked.

    Thuram may well turn out to be a much better keeper than any we currently have, but that is irrelevent. He was not the choice of those whose decisions it should be who play and who don't.

    Should Powell walk ?? Of course he should. His position has been completely undermined and is currently untenable.

    However, you saw how the ridiculous similar farce at Cardiff turned out and Malky McKay refusing to hand in his notice in a similar situation. I wonder if Powell is mates with Malky by any chance...



    Why have you not talked about church's two howlers that he fucked up and did not score which determined the result?

    because it is completely irrespective to my point. My point is the manager is being told what goalkeeper to play.
    but you don't know that AFKA ... it's just guesswork and supposition. If you are right, I agree ... but I'm not convinced yet. Let's see where we are at 11 pm.
    As said, just my view based on what i've been told. Everyone is entitled to their own view.

    And as much as i like Powell, i would not believe a single word he says in the press or in public.

    With the greatest respect AFKA your argument can't lose can it ? Selective choice of what you believe.

    I suppose we're all guilty of that.

    Can't lose? I'm not trying to 'win' anything. i'm just stating my point.

    I think our club is currently a farce. We are attempting what appears to be a whole summer transition within the space of three days.

    - Our manager (from what i've been told) is having little or no so in what is coming in or going out

    - It now appears a strong possibility he is being leaned on on who to play. Certainly the case with the keep at Donny

    - Our Chairman appears to have no idea who it is who is deciding who comes and goes

    - Squad morale is said to be shot to pieces

    - Regardless of what may come in today, We have offloaded a fair spine of the team with our currently best performing keeping, currently best performing midfielder, and at some point today our best performing striker and fans favourite.

    There is no attempt to be selective, those are the stand out points to me.

    Exactly this
    Agreed
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    stonemuse said:

    Rob62 said:

    I suppose there is always the chance that CP has bought into this. He could be at desperation point with the current squad and be going along with RD's clearout. Keep himself at the club he loves and see how RD's project goes. Alternatively he could be sat at Sparrows lane with his head up his arse thinking strange thoughts like the rest of us.

    He has not bought into this. He is in an impossible situation.
    how do you know that?
    Because I do
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    se9addick said:

    Alnwick is a Charlton legend and I'm disgusted he's been treated like this.

    best month by a Charlton player EVER

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    MrLargo said:

    Dale stephens 84 games 10 goals in the league

    Yann kerm 89 games 29 goals in the league

    although kerms record is alright a third of these games were in league 1, so hardly jaw dropping statistics

    Oh ok, I didn't realise that goals scored was the only relevant statistic when assessing how important a player is. I've got some bad news for you about Thuram-Ulien - no goals in 84 appearances throughout his career so far.

    hahaha do you even understand football? a striker and an attacking mids job is to score goals? whats the point in having them if they dont want to score? stupid statement to make
    I am guessing you are only about 13 or 14 years old, so I won't be too harsh on you.

    Apart from Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, most strikers generally rely on receiving decent service in order to score goals. A striker playing for a team that creates 10 chances a game will normally end up scoring more goals than a striker playing for a team that creates only 2 chances in a game, regardless of how competent the striker is.

    A midfielders responsibilities are generally broader. Whilst he will be expected to chip in with a few goals, he will also be required to assist the defence in preventing the opposition from scoring, by making interceptions and tackles, and tracking back to ensure that opposing midfielders aren't left unmarked when they go forward. At the other end of the pitch, he will be expected to help to create chances for the striker (see description above) either by passing directly to the striker when he is standing in a goalscoring position, or by passing to another teammate who is better positioned to make a pass to the striker.

    I hope you find this information useful.
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    I see he has only joined the O's on a permanent deal until the end of the season. Not much security there !
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    MrLargo said:

    MrLargo said:

    Dale stephens 84 games 10 goals in the league

    Yann kerm 89 games 29 goals in the league

    although kerms record is alright a third of these games were in league 1, so hardly jaw dropping statistics

    Oh ok, I didn't realise that goals scored was the only relevant statistic when assessing how important a player is. I've got some bad news for you about Thuram-Ulien - no goals in 84 appearances throughout his career so far.

    hahaha do you even understand football? a striker and an attacking mids job is to score goals? whats the point in having them if they dont want to score? stupid statement to make
    I am guessing you are only about 13 or 14 years old, so I won't be too harsh on you.

    Apart from Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, most strikers generally rely on receiving decent service in order to score goals. A striker playing for a team that creates 10 chances a game will normally end up scoring more goals than a striker playing for a team that creates only 2 chances in a game, regardless of how competent the striker is.

    A midfielders responsibilities are generally broader. Whilst he will be expected to chip in with a few goals, he will also be required to assist the defence in preventing the opposition from scoring, by making interceptions and tackles, and tracking back to ensure that opposing midfielders aren't left unmarked when they go forward. At the other end of the pitch, he will be expected to help to create chances for the striker (see description above) either by passing directly to the striker when he is standing in a goalscoring position, or by passing to another teammate who is better positioned to make a pass to the striker.

    I hope you find this information useful.
    and your comment about thuram scoring goals backed up your point how? the reason that you said it was...?
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    edited January 2014
    MrLargo said:

    MrLargo said:

    Dale stephens 84 games 10 goals in the league

    Yann kerm 89 games 29 goals in the league

    although kerms record is alright a third of these games were in league 1, so hardly jaw dropping statistics

    Oh ok, I didn't realise that goals scored was the only relevant statistic when assessing how important a player is. I've got some bad news for you about Thuram-Ulien - no goals in 84 appearances throughout his career so far.

    hahaha do you even understand football? a striker and an attacking mids job is to score goals? whats the point in having them if they dont want to score? stupid statement to make
    I am guessing you are only about 13 or 14 years old, so I won't be too harsh on you.

    Apart from Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, most strikers generally rely on receiving decent service in order to score goals. A striker playing for a team that creates 10 chances a game will normally end up scoring more goals than a striker playing for a team that creates only 2 chances in a game, regardless of how competent the striker is.

    A midfielders responsibilities are generally broader. Whilst he will be expected to chip in with a few goals, he will also be required to assist the defence in preventing the opposition from scoring, by making interceptions and tackles, and tracking back to ensure that opposing midfielders aren't left unmarked when they go forward. At the other end of the pitch, he will be expected to help to create chances for the striker (see description above) either by passing directly to the striker when he is standing in a goalscoring position, or by passing to another teammate who is better positioned to make a pass to the striker.

    I hope you find this information useful.
    So much for our midfield.



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    First look on here today, and a real surprise to start what will be a roller-coaster day. I doubt that anyone saw this transfer coming but with 3 keepers competing for a starting place and a highly rated youngster waiting in the wings, GK is certainly one position where we can afford to trim the wage bill a little. If that frees up money for a good creative midfielder or a dangerous winger or another quality striker that's all good for me.

    I agree that Alnwick has done very well for us in his brief time here but I wouldn't put him ahead of Hamer in the pecking order. I just hope that CP was involved and agreed the move. More worried if those that think he is sidelined are correct.

    Good luck at Orient Ben.
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    Davo55 said:

    First look on here today, and a real surprise to start what will be a roller-coaster day. I doubt that anyone saw this transfer coming but with 3 keepers competing for a starting place and a highly rated youngster waiting in the wings, GK is certainly one position where we can afford to trim the wage bill a little. If that frees up money for a good creative midfielder or a dangerous winger or another quality striker that's all good for me.

    I agree that Alnwick has done very well for us in his brief time here but I wouldn't put him ahead of Hamer in the pecking order. I just hope that CP was involved and agreed the move. More worried if those that think he is sidelined are correct.

    Good luck at Orient Ben.

    Far too reasonable.
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    Hamer and Alnwick are two good keepers and this Thuram bloke appears to be on a par.

    To paraphrase Sparks "this town aint big enough for the 3 of us" and as long as Chris Powell decided who had to leave then I have no problem.
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    LenGlover said:

    Hamer and Alnwick are two good keepers and this Thuram bloke appears to be on a par.

    To paraphrase Sparks "this town aint big enough for the 3 of us" and as long as Chris Powell decided who had to leave then I have no problem.

    This is the main point i would love to have answered, is it Powells doing or is RD?
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    cafckev said:

    LenGlover said:

    Hamer and Alnwick are two good keepers and this Thuram bloke appears to be on a par.

    To paraphrase Sparks "this town aint big enough for the 3 of us" and as long as Chris Powell decided who had to leave then I have no problem.

    This is the main point i would love to have answered, is it Powells doing or is RD?
    Be honest, what do you think ?

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    Wasnt expecting this today
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    I'm not overly bothered. He was alright...had a few stormers, dropped a few clangers.

    He's obviously not tht good as a team better than orient would have come in for him. Thanks for the month of memories Ben, it was emotional

    Thuram and hamer will do
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    MrLargo said:

    MrLargo said:

    Dale stephens 84 games 10 goals in the league

    Yann kerm 89 games 29 goals in the league

    although kerms record is alright a third of these games were in league 1, so hardly jaw dropping statistics

    Oh ok, I didn't realise that goals scored was the only relevant statistic when assessing how important a player is. I've got some bad news for you about Thuram-Ulien - no goals in 84 appearances throughout his career so far.

    hahaha do you even understand football? a striker and an attacking mids job is to score goals? whats the point in having them if they dont want to score? stupid statement to make
    I am guessing you are only about 13 or 14 years old, so I won't be too harsh on you.

    Apart from Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, most strikers generally rely on receiving decent service in order to score goals. A striker playing for a team that creates 10 chances a game will normally end up scoring more goals than a striker playing for a team that creates only 2 chances in a game, regardless of how competent the striker is.

    A midfielders responsibilities are generally broader. Whilst he will be expected to chip in with a few goals, he will also be required to assist the defence in preventing the opposition from scoring, by making interceptions and tackles, and tracking back to ensure that opposing midfielders aren't left unmarked when they go forward. At the other end of the pitch, he will be expected to help to create chances for the striker (see description above) either by passing directly to the striker when he is standing in a goalscoring position, or by passing to another teammate who is better positioned to make a pass to the striker.

    I hope you find this information useful.
    and your comment about thuram scoring goals backed up your point how? the reason that you said it was...?

    I think he was using sarcasm to make his point but you didn't realise that.
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    No mention of a fee on OS. Mentioned above that Hearn doesn't do fees.
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    FFS come on-----------------a forward who has done it in sub standard leagues and until a week ago no one outside his wife and kids had herd of--------against the goals that Kerm has scored at this level.

    a full back that has amassed a total of 20ish games at a shit level

    a goal keeper who the manager didnt want to play

    a winger who is going into the reserves



    its chaos and total bollox
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    edited January 2014
    I think AFKA is right, I'm afraid - and I'm all for giving the new regime a chance, so it doesn't please me to say it. There is very good information that RD wanted Thuram to play Tuesday night and Chris insisted on playing Alnwick.

    It's not a question of who is right and whether Alnwick is any good, RD can't pick the team without it all ending in tears.
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