Trust statement, more to come I believe (hope this link works, I've been given responsibility for uploading the statement and I don't really know how to post things on our site!):
Call me old fashioned but if you we going to do a pitch inspection, does it make sense to do it in a pair of formal shoes rather than football boots? Isn't every soft pitch going to feel unplayable when you have a nice pair of leather-soled brogues on your feet?
It is a huge embarrassment to know that we currently have the worst pitch in the league; It is a huge embarrassment to see other clubs fans laughing at our expense; It is a huge embarrassment that someone at the club doesn't seem to know what a playable surface looks like; It is a huge embarrassment that the club statement is so inept; But mostly for me it's that the club seems to have given no consideration to the many fans of both clubs who were making the effort to travel miles and hours to game. Not good enough.
Steve Bradshaw is The Chief Operations Officer. He is responsible for the stadium.
It is evident that the pitch has major problems due to collapsed drainage & capped/sealed drains (allegedly).
Therefore any water will not drain away properly.
Any COO worthy of his position, would surely, have personally inspected the pitch, together with the ground staff on a regular basis this week.
Following these inspections, then there should have been regular updates, to say that there was doubt over the Barnsley game proceeding.
There should have been a local referee called in yesterday, to inspect and to announce his view.
If the referee decided that a further inspection would be required on Saturday, then this should have been communicated & the inspection should have taken place at 9am this morning.
Unless, someone can explain why the above is factually incorrect or was not possible, then I believe Mr Bradshaw is at fault for this debacle.
If I'm wrong, I apologise, but this is the way I see it & it doesn't come as a great surprise.
You forgot two things! He manages the comms team who released the statement today He would be responsible for the budgets in this area - both spending them and negotiating them in the first place
It has been stated that today's debacle was as a result of the failure to spend £28K over the summer. This in a club which spends £17M per annum on staff, players and operations. If true then this is rediculous considering costs today, risks to the future programme and the aspirations of this club to push on with this squad and climb the league.
The comms team will have released the statement they were instructed to.
Of course. And those who didn't get as far as the ground today may not be aware that there is a page in the programme by Mr Bradshaw telling us about all the work on the pitch - clearly he is responsible for it when it suits.
Just to be clear about this. There is still no head of comms at the club.
Someone earlier in the thread said that senior management would have validated the statement and so it's their responsibility. That's missing the point. Bradshaw will have written that statement. The comms team will simply have pushed publish.
The issue is not the postponement per se but the incompetence and or contempt displayed by Charlton's senior management for the fans of both clubs.
The referee offered a Friday inspection. Charlton turned it down. Why?
The postponement may well have been unavoidable but it could have been announced hours earlier or even the day before and fans of both clubs spared the time and expense of an unnecessary journey.
Crass incompetence at best and contempt for the paying customer at worst in my opinion.
Didn't both managers agree with the referee yesterday that the pitch was unplayable?
Unless I've missed something, we don't know.
We know that the referee spoke to both managers about it, but we don't know what the managers said to him.
Danny Wilson has said publicly that it was the correct decision because player safety is paramount; that may well mean he thought the pitch was unplayable, or it could simply mean he doesn't want to publicly disagree with the ref, or recognises that it was the ref's call to make.
As I said at the start, I may well have missed something though.
I have just read RedRobin's "geography lesson" and he said what I had thought. Adding to his comments is the fact that the Thames barrier has been up many times in the last month or so. Where does all the water which the barrier holds back go to ? Yes, into the water table.
Having lived close to the Thames in Greenwich in 1952, when you may know there was severe flooding, including the Canvey Island being completely immersed, I have first hand experience of what high tides and excessive rain can do in this area. I and my older family were woken in the middle of the night to move to safer areas.
Yesterday, I, like others, worked till 1.30 in Gravesend, then went to collect my son and three Grandsons before heading off to the match. We arrived at the Valley at around 2.40 p.m. to find the game was off.
The fact that we had not been informed sooner or better, is, in my opinion, the main gripe we have with the club. But following some recent disappointment of my family group, which I, having spent in excess of £500 for taking them to the Leed's match, did not receiving anything like value for the money spent, or even what I had been told to expect (and that had nothing to do with the match or it's result). So this seems to be symptomatic of the big decline in the general standard of administration within the club in recent times.
Incidentally, I was one of the many, who drove to Newcastle for the match, which was called off, when we were in sight of the ground. Due, we are told, to the safety of the fans, in the streets around the ground Then more recently to Walsall, when the match was called off just as we drove into the car park, because one corner of the pitch was frozen, I cannot accept all the hysteria surrounding the fans inconvenience in this match. I got nothing for my inconvenience and neither did Newcastle or Walsall suffer, as far as I am aware.
That's a good point because it then shows powell to not have been dilligant with his preperation for yesterdays fixture any manager worth his salt wouldve been keeping an eye on the pitch conditions for tactics and an advantage against the opposition
What is more likely is that powell could see the refs point of view and agreed with his decision
Like he agreed with the 2 previous refs who deemed it fit
That is why I am convinced there was no difference in the pitch than those 2 games
Do we really think that our staff are that shit at their jobs that they would not see the pitch as so bad it could be called off
Or is it more than plausabe that the last two refs wouldve played yesterday and this one wouldn't and therfore causing the late comms and postponment
The pitch was a disgrace against Brighton and Sheff Weds. The pitch was similarly disgraceful yesterday and will be a disgrace Tuesday. The pitch has been a shambles for well over 2 years. The problem is the poor drainage and the mud, that doesn't allow the ball to run true, and poor footing for players. The effect is cumulative. The pitch is deteriorating as the winter progresses. The pitch will likely further deteriorate with main problem being the drainage whatever the ground staff do. The cover with hot air is not going to help that. Enough is enough already. How bad does it have to get ? This is not the 1950s.
I don't agree with the argument saying it is a fussy referees fault. Maybe this referee was right and the others got it wrong. I would really like to see a decent game of passing football encouraged and to be properly entertained. The state of the pitch shows massive disrespect to the paying customers and players. Focus should be on resolving the bleedin' problem not downplaying it and indicating that everything is fine.
Can they not sort out a solution to drainage for feck sake in this day and age ?
“To be honest with you the ground staff have worked so hard. We’ve had a dome on it so it hasn’t taken the amount of rain it could have done, but it’s the after-effects of those two games it’s still suffering from it."
This statement by Chris Powell might be read to imply it was worse than before.
I think if either club disagreed with the ref they could and should have said so. There's nothing inappropriate about stating an honest disagreement, while recognising the ref has to decide. They had a chance to lobby the ref it was playable; there's no sign in the video or the statements that they did.
Just to be clear about this. There is still no head of comms at the club.
Someone earlier in the thread said that senior management would have validated the statement and so it's their responsibility. That's missing the point. Bradshaw will have written that statement. The comms team will simply have pushed publish.
It's likely to have been a collaboration. It's unlikely Bradshaw went off and wrote it privately and told the comms team to stick it out. That said, no blame whatsoever attaches to the comms staff in my view. They can only do what they are allowed to do.
That's a good point because it then shows powell to not have been dilligant with his preperation for yesterdays fixture any manager worth his salt wouldve been keeping an eye on the pitch conditions for tactics and an advantage against the opposition
What is more likely is that powell could see the refs point of view and agreed with his decision
Like he agreed with the 2 previous refs who deemed it fit
That is why I am convinced there was no difference in the pitch than those 2 games
Do we really think that our staff are that shit at their jobs that they would not see the pitch as so bad it could be called off
Or is it more than plausabe that the last two refs wouldve played yesterday and this one wouldn't and therfore causing the late comms and postponment
I'm not convinced that's true, NLA. The video clip of the pitch inspection clearly shows Powell, Danny Wilson and the ref squelching about on an expanse of wet mud near the half-way line where a ball obviously wouldn't bounce or roll. Pictures posted here from the Upper North show similar patches all over the pitch. Conditions underfoot looked markedly worse than for the Brighton and Sheffield Wednesday games.
Prague its embaressing that thew club have allowed the pitch to be a shambles
Yep I get that and agree but unless people have the balls to call the ground staff liars and chris powell an incompetnt mgr who is also responsible
Because I would have been checking the pitch just so I could nick and advantage
We have to accept that the ref made a call that 2 prior refs hadn't
The offical line from the club is that the pitch was the same as brighton and sheff weds
So who is to blame those two refs for playing games that got us 4 points or this one for calling it off
I wasn't going but got a text from someone who was and I thought bollox I will go
Got in car to leave and got text saying game off so I went back in home
It is the outrage that gets me what else couldve been done if you don't want to believe anything other than what the club says
The crux for me is that the pitch is a problem. One game abandoned, one previously postponed, one previously played after a late pitch inspection. Is it really beyond the realms of comprehension to have a precautionary pitch inspection at say 4pm on Friday and if necessary another EARLY on the Saturday. If it passes then great and if it doesn't at least you can call it off earlier. Either way it is a win, win situation. Instead we have instead a lose, lose situation. I'm bothered about the pitch but wouldn't have been bothered so much if it had been called off earlier. This was then compounded by a late statement by the Club and even then blaming the ground staff. The fault lies with Senior Management, end of or at least it does in public.
Also, maybe the previous two refs were wrong and this one right. Both managers agreed with the decision after all.
Vff, that is exactly what the club has done over the past week - said there is a problem and they will spend the money to fix it. But that cannot happen until the close season.
Again, I ask, what more could the club have done? There has been very little rain in the area over the last week - certainly no more than can be expected for every week for the foreseeable future. So this situation is not going to improve - do we really expect the club to put out a statement a couple of days before every game for the next few months that 'game might or might not be going ahead'? That will not help anyone.
Not punching a hole as it obviously makes sense, however it is a plan formed with the luxury of hindsight.
Of course BUT we need a plan going forward because this won't be the last time we have a game called off. Agree with all that Prague so forward it to Bradshaw ASAP.
But veiwfinder we can only go on what the official line is from those that know
My personal opinion is it was playable but that's because I think that players wouldve played on it ten yrs ago so why not now
Also if you drew a non league team out in the cup and the pitch was like that it would be called a leveller
Am I happy that our pitch is to be viewed against those things no I am not
But I also know that our ground staff are honest hard working people and if they say it was the same or comparable to the other 2 games then I belive them
If they hadn't have said that I wouldve said the same as others
But if I belive that then I have to belive that it was only the ref who made the call and the club done all they could
Not much to add to all the above - except to note that all of the long-standing and chronic problems facing the club were never going to be resolved immediately following the takeover. Given that we know Paddy and Nathan have produced magnificent pitches in the past, we have to acknowledge that the root of the current problems with the pitch is severe under-investment. There is a defective drainage system, relatively poor seed having been used (so I believe) and a lack of covers, heating and artificial lighting. Some of that can be and is being addressed immediately but the big work can only be done in the close season - and they need to give the ground staff the whole time to get it right, none of those silly matches at the end of the season to raise a few quid.
Meanwhile, we are going to be on a knife edge right through to April, and it's going to be a slog. No point in digging out Paddy and his team, and that would be unfair anyway.
The senior management and the communications team did a poor job yesterday, and that really needs to be addressed. But for the pitch, the board should listen to Paddy, give him whatever he asks for and then keep their fingers crossed, like the rest of us.
why blame the Comms team. Nothing goes out without Senior Management approval so how is it their fault?
StevieK Member 2:23PM Vff, that is exactly what the club has done over the past week - said there is a problem and they will spend the money to fix it. But that cannot happen until the close season.
Again, I ask, what more could the club have done? There has been very little rain in the area over the last week - certainly no more than can be expected for every week for the foreseeable future. So this situation is not going to improve - do we really expect the club to put out a statement a couple of days before every game for the next few months that 'game might or might not be going ahead'? That will not help anyone.
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VFF
Maybe the situation is worse than they anticipated. The pitch has deteriorated to such a point that getting games on is not definite. Sure the club would prefer to get the work completed at the end of the season but is it really feasible to leave that long ?
Yes, I do think that they should have a protocol and plan in place for informing supporters of the status of the game if it is at risk, especially given this weeks debacle and there is no improvement in the playing surface.
If we're looking to narrow down yesterdays clusterfuck to the individuals most responsible, then I'm blaming Bradshaw for my personal inconvenience at yesterday's postponement. His decision making process and poor communication instructions have cost me 2hrs and £25 of wasted fuel that could have been avoided. Reading through this thread, I seem to have got off lightly compared to many others.
For the disintegration/collapse of the pitch it's harder to blame one individual - but if you had to pick one name, then that person is Richard Murray. The fact that we spent 8 years in the premiership and never invested in the pitch is a disgrace that hangs round Mr Murray's neck more than any other.
Yesterdays PP wasn't down to just a bit of bad luck, a fussy referee or sustained bad weather - it was down to ongoing mismanagement and neglect. For that, we could easily be fined and potentially sued.
Dowie reed Pardew parky and murray for taking us to lge 1 meaning the new lot had to buy a whole new team get rid of a poor mgr and have no money left once their backer pulled out to fix it
Previous late postponements keep being mentioned such as Walsall and Newcastle when we were the visitors. You cannot compare these with yesterdays shambles. Both cancellations were caused by poor weather in the hours leading up to the games, I went to both and although mightily pissed off I accepted that in all probability it was out of the clubs hands. This is one of the pitfalls of being an away fan. However, yesterday was different. Every man and his dog knew how bad the pitch was and in light of the events of the last week or so, it is indefensible that the club did not bother to have a local referee inspect the pitch on the Friday evening or first thing on the Saturday. Furthermore, how can a referee, Chris Powell and Danny Wilson walk on to the pitch and agree unanimously with in minutes that the pitch was unplayable and not one member of staff at CAFC thought likewise? Add to this the statement by the club that there will be no pitch issues for the Barnsley game and you have one total balls up.
Moby Duck, what about the drainage collapse 2 years ago, whose responsibility was that and why was that not addressed in the summer ?
The point being is that we've operated on a small budget for many years. Others on this site have claimed that no serious work has been carried out on the pitch since 1996/7? (or somewhere thereabouts). I'm not privy to any financial facts, but if we've been flirting with administration in recent years then you can understand delaying work as long as possible. Between 2000-2007, this wasn't the case, which is why I still hold Murray as the most responsible person for the state of the Valley pitch. It has been a problem for much longer than two years.
It has to be considered that the pitch hasn't had a game played on it since 26 December - so there has been time to improve it. The fact that we haven't suggests that there isn't a magic cure which is worrying. We probably need a prolonged dry spell - what's the forecast for tonight? As for communications - as a season ticket holder and somebody who made the journey to the ground yesterday, I would like to hear what the short term plan is to address this problem. A decent length interview with Paddy should be the minimum we deserve.
Comments
http://www.castrust.org/2014/01/trust-statement-regarding-barnsley-postponement/
More to come I believe.
It is a huge embarrassment to see other clubs fans laughing at our expense;
It is a huge embarrassment that someone at the club doesn't seem to know what a playable surface looks like;
It is a huge embarrassment that the club statement is so inept;
But mostly for me it's that the club seems to have given no consideration to the many fans of both clubs who were making the effort to travel miles and hours to game. Not good enough.
Nail on the head
Someone earlier in the thread said that senior management would have validated the statement and so it's their responsibility. That's missing the point. Bradshaw will have written that statement. The comms team will simply have pushed publish.
The referee offered a Friday inspection. Charlton turned it down. Why?
The postponement may well have been unavoidable but it could have been announced hours earlier or even the day before and fans of both clubs spared the time and expense of an unnecessary journey.
Crass incompetence at best and contempt for the paying customer at worst in my opinion.
We know that the referee spoke to both managers about it, but we don't know what the managers said to him.
Danny Wilson has said publicly that it was the correct decision because player safety is paramount; that may well mean he thought the pitch was unplayable, or it could simply mean he doesn't want to publicly disagree with the ref, or recognises that it was the ref's call to make.
As I said at the start, I may well have missed something though.
Having lived close to the Thames in Greenwich in 1952, when you may know there was severe flooding, including the Canvey Island being completely immersed, I have first hand experience of what high tides and excessive rain can do in this area. I and my older family were woken in the middle of the night to move to safer areas.
Yesterday, I, like others, worked till 1.30 in Gravesend, then went to collect my son and three Grandsons before heading off to the match. We arrived at the Valley at around 2.40 p.m. to find the game was off.
The fact that we had not been informed sooner or better, is, in my opinion, the main gripe we have with the club. But following some recent disappointment of my family group, which I, having spent in excess of £500 for taking them to the Leed's match, did not receiving anything like value for the money spent, or even what I had been told to expect (and that had nothing to do with the match or it's result). So this seems to be symptomatic of the big decline in the general standard of administration within the club in recent times.
Incidentally, I was one of the many, who drove to Newcastle for the match, which was called off, when we were in sight of the ground. Due, we are told, to the safety of the fans, in the streets around the ground Then more recently to Walsall, when the match was called off just as we drove into the car park, because one corner of the pitch was frozen, I cannot accept all the hysteria surrounding the fans inconvenience in this match. I got nothing for my inconvenience and neither did Newcastle or Walsall suffer, as far as I am aware.
What is more likely is that powell could see the refs point of view and agreed with his decision
Like he agreed with the 2 previous refs who deemed it fit
That is why I am convinced there was no difference in the pitch than those 2 games
Do we really think that our staff are that shit at their jobs that they would not see the pitch as so bad it could be called off
Or is it more than plausabe that the last two refs wouldve played yesterday and this one wouldn't and therfore causing the late comms and postponment
I don't agree with the argument saying it is a fussy referees fault. Maybe this referee was right and the others got it wrong. I would really like to see a decent game of passing football encouraged and to be properly entertained. The state of the pitch shows massive disrespect to the paying customers and players. Focus should be on resolving the bleedin' problem not downplaying it and indicating that everything is fine.
Can they not sort out a solution to drainage for feck sake in this day and age ?
This statement by Chris Powell might be read to imply it was worse than before.
I think if either club disagreed with the ref they could and should have said so. There's nothing inappropriate about stating an honest disagreement, while recognising the ref has to decide. They had a chance to lobby the ref it was playable; there's no sign in the video or the statements that they did. It's likely to have been a collaboration. It's unlikely Bradshaw went off and wrote it privately and told the comms team to stick it out. That said, no blame whatsoever attaches to the comms staff in my view. They can only do what they are allowed to do.
Also, maybe the previous two refs were wrong and this one right. Both managers agreed with the decision after all.
Again, I ask, what more could the club have done? There has been very little rain in the area over the last week - certainly no more than can be expected for every week for the foreseeable future. So this situation is not going to improve - do we really expect the club to put out a statement a couple of days before every game for the next few months that 'game might or might not be going ahead'? That will not help anyone.
My personal opinion is it was playable but that's because I think that players wouldve played on it ten yrs ago so why not now
Also if you drew a non league team out in the cup and the pitch was like that it would be called a leveller
Am I happy that our pitch is to be viewed against those things no I am not
But I also know that our ground staff are honest hard working people and if they say it was the same or comparable to the other 2 games then I belive them
If they hadn't have said that I wouldve said the same as others
But if I belive that then I have to belive that it was only the ref who made the call and the club done all they could
2:23PM
Vff, that is exactly what the club has done over the past week - said there is a problem and they will spend the money to fix it. But that cannot happen until the close season.
Again, I ask, what more could the club have done? There has been very little rain in the area over the last week - certainly no more than can be expected for every week for the foreseeable future. So this situation is not going to improve - do we really expect the club to put out a statement a couple of days before every game for the next few months that 'game might or might not be going ahead'? That will not help anyone.
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VFF
Maybe the situation is worse than they anticipated. The pitch has deteriorated to such a point that getting games on is not definite. Sure the club would prefer to get the work completed at the end of the season but is it really feasible to leave that long ?
Yes, I do think that they should have a protocol and plan in place for informing supporters of the status of the game if it is at risk, especially given this weeks debacle and there is no improvement in the playing surface.
For the disintegration/collapse of the pitch it's harder to blame one individual - but if you had to pick one name, then that person is Richard Murray. The fact that we spent 8 years in the premiership and never invested in the pitch is a disgrace that hangs round Mr Murray's neck more than any other.
Yesterdays PP wasn't down to just a bit of bad luck, a fussy referee or sustained bad weather - it was down to ongoing mismanagement and neglect. For that, we could easily be fined and potentially sued.