So, to recap what some on here are whingeing about ...
That not ALL stands will be open for this Cup match ( If East Standers are miffed about their regular seats being unavailable, then why not Upper North & West regulars too ? )
But does this make any sense ????
Each stand that is open requires turnstile operators, matchday stewards, kiosk facilities, cleaners post match and surveillance from the "Police Box " between the JS & West Stands.
In addition, the level of noise for supporting the home team would be diminished in light of the scatter of supporters.
The Valley would look ridiculously "empty" to the cameras /news coverage...do we need another reason for Palace fans to snigger in our direction ?
It seems to me, and of course this is purely my personal opinion, that the use of 2 words by the Club to justify their decision has escalated to a ridiculous level , especially at a time when surely we should ALL be concentrating our energies into the future of our Club and short term, survival in this league.
The Club will know how many tickets have been sold thus far....does the Trust ? Should we expect the Trust to be consulted before any decision affecting supporters is made?( and that would mean anything directly or indirectly - pretty much everything!) And finally, I'd like to ask how many Trust members have approached razil & co to investigate this issue.
This is not an anti Trust post - I took out my membership at the launch in Bartrams on 5th December 2012 and donated the gaffer's signed training top worth circa £450 for auction to raise much needed funds.
But I am concerned that those involved on the Board are becoming too embroiled in matters which may alienate not only the Club but also the majority of supporters who are not supportive of the Trust in the first place. Dialogue, communication - whatever word you care to use- IS important but IMHO should not be over utilised. The result could be withdrawal of this facility rather than the opposite.
I know others who are not going because of it.
Then you've just got to laugh at the stupidity of it !
So, to recap what some on here are whingeing about ...
That not ALL stands will be open for this Cup match ( If East Standers are miffed about their regular seats being unavailable, then why not Upper North & West regulars too ? )
But does this make any sense ????
Each stand that is open requires turnstile operators, matchday stewards, kiosk facilities, cleaners post match and surveillance from the "Police Box " between the JS & West Stands.
In addition, the level of noise for supporting the home team would be diminished in light of the scatter of supporters.
The Valley would look ridiculously "empty" to the cameras /news coverage...do we need another reason for Palace fans to snigger in our direction ?
It seems to me, and of course this is purely my personal opinion, that the use of 2 words by the Club to justify their decision has escalated to a ridiculous level , especially at a time when surely we should ALL be concentrating our energies into the future of our Club and short term, survival in this league.
The Club will know how many tickets have been sold thus far....does the Trust ? Should we expect the Trust to be consulted before any decision affecting supporters is made?( and that would mean anything directly or indirectly - pretty much everything!) And finally, I'd like to ask how many Trust members have approached razil & co to investigate this issue.
This is not an anti Trust post - I took out my membership at the launch in Bartrams on 5th December 2012 and donated the gaffer's signed training top worth circa £450 for auction to raise much needed funds.
But I am concerned that those involved on the Board are becoming too embroiled in matters which may alienate not only the Club but also the majority of supporters who are not supportive of the Trust in the first place. Dialogue, communication - whatever word you care to use- IS important but IMHO should not be over utilised. The result could be withdrawal of this facility rather than the opposite.
I know others who are not going because of it.
Then you've just got to laugh at the stupidity of it !
I expect I'm setting myself up with this but, is the view much different from the West Stand than it would be from the Arthur Wait Stand? And would we have castigated those that complained about having to watch their football from there when they were used to where they had been watching it for a good number of years?
So, to recap what some on here are whingeing about ...
That not ALL stands will be open for this Cup match ( If East Standers are miffed about their regular seats being unavailable, then why not Upper North & West regulars too ? )
But does this make any sense ????
Each stand that is open requires turnstile operators, matchday stewards, kiosk facilities, cleaners post match and surveillance from the "Police Box " between the JS & West Stands.
In addition, the level of noise for supporting the home team would be diminished in light of the scatter of supporters.
The Valley would look ridiculously "empty" to the cameras /news coverage...do we need another reason for Palace fans to snigger in our direction ?
It seems to me, and of course this is purely my personal opinion, that the use of 2 words by the Club to justify their decision has escalated to a ridiculous level , especially at a time when surely we should ALL be concentrating our energies into the future of our Club and short term, survival in this league.
The Club will know how many tickets have been sold thus far....does the Trust ? Should we expect the Trust to be consulted before any decision affecting supporters is made?( and that would mean anything directly or indirectly - pretty much everything!) And finally, I'd like to ask how many Trust members have approached razil & co to investigate this issue.
This is not an anti Trust post - I took out my membership at the launch in Bartrams on 5th December 2012 and donated the gaffer's signed training top worth circa £450 for auction to raise much needed funds.
But I am concerned that those involved on the Board are becoming too embroiled in matters which may alienate not only the Club but also the majority of supporters who are not supportive of the Trust in the first place. Dialogue, communication - whatever word you care to use- IS important but IMHO should not be over utilised. The result could be withdrawal of this facility rather than the opposite.
I know others who are not going because of it.
Then you've just got to laugh at the stupidity of it !
I expect I'm setting myself up with this but, is the view much different from the West Stand that it would be from the Arthur Wait Stand? And would we have castigated those that complained about having to watch their football from there when they were used to where they had been watching football for a good number of years?
So, to recap what some on here are whingeing about ...
That not ALL stands will be open for this Cup match ( If East Standers are miffed about their regular seats being unavailable, then why not Upper North & West regulars too ? )
But does this make any sense ????
Each stand that is open requires turnstile operators, matchday stewards, kiosk facilities, cleaners post match and surveillance from the "Police Box " between the JS & West Stands.
In addition, the level of noise for supporting the home team would be diminished in light of the scatter of supporters.
The Valley would look ridiculously "empty" to the cameras /news coverage...do we need another reason for Palace fans to snigger in our direction ?
It seems to me, and of course this is purely my personal opinion, that the use of 2 words by the Club to justify their decision has escalated to a ridiculous level , especially at a time when surely we should ALL be concentrating our energies into the future of our Club and short term, survival in this league.
The Club will know how many tickets have been sold thus far....does the Trust ? Should we expect the Trust to be consulted before any decision affecting supporters is made?( and that would mean anything directly or indirectly - pretty much everything!) And finally, I'd like to ask how many Trust members have approached razil & co to investigate this issue.
This is not an anti Trust post - I took out my membership at the launch in Bartrams on 5th December 2012 and donated the gaffer's signed training top worth circa £450 for auction to raise much needed funds.
But I am concerned that those involved on the Board are becoming too embroiled in matters which may alienate not only the Club but also the majority of supporters who are not supportive of the Trust in the first place. Dialogue, communication - whatever word you care to use- IS important but IMHO should not be over utilised. The result could be withdrawal of this facility rather than the opposite.
I know others who are not going because of it.
Then you've just got to laugh at the stupidity of it !
That's fine but it's no way to run a business. Some people said the same thing about the move to Selhurst Park. After all, the players and the manager were the same, so weren't those who wouldn't attend stupid for missing out on First Division football? I'm not saying the situations are comparable, just that it's no good to say that because most people think one way the rest should just fall into line or be ignored.
The club needs to base its decisions on what people will do, not what it thinks they ought to do, because in the end it's up to individuals to decide. In this case, attending is a marginal decision already for many people, as shown by the attendances year on year. It doesn't take much for them to decide not to bother.
So, to recap what some on here are whingeing about ...
That not ALL stands will be open for this Cup match ( If East Standers are miffed about their regular seats being unavailable, then why not Upper North & West regulars too ? )
But does this make any sense ????
Each stand that is open requires turnstile operators, matchday stewards, kiosk facilities, cleaners post match and surveillance from the "Police Box " between the JS & West Stands.
In addition, the level of noise for supporting the home team would be diminished in light of the scatter of supporters.
The Valley would look ridiculously "empty" to the cameras /news coverage...do we need another reason for Palace fans to snigger in our direction ?
It seems to me, and of course this is purely my personal opinion, that the use of 2 words by the Club to justify their decision has escalated to a ridiculous level , especially at a time when surely we should ALL be concentrating our energies into the future of our Club and short term, survival in this league.
The Club will know how many tickets have been sold thus far....does the Trust ? Should we expect the Trust to be consulted before any decision affecting supporters is made?( and that would mean anything directly or indirectly - pretty much everything!) And finally, I'd like to ask how many Trust members have approached razil & co to investigate this issue.
This is not an anti Trust post - I took out my membership at the launch in Bartrams on 5th December 2012 and donated the gaffer's signed training top worth circa £450 for auction to raise much needed funds.
But I am concerned that those involved on the Board are becoming too embroiled in matters which may alienate not only the Club but also the majority of supporters who are not supportive of the Trust in the first place. Dialogue, communication - whatever word you care to use- IS important but IMHO should not be over utilised. The result could be withdrawal of this facility rather than the opposite.
I know others who are not going because of it.
Then you've just got to laugh at the stupidity of it !
That's fine but it's no way to run a business. Some people said the same thing about the move to Selhurst Park. After all, the players and the manager were the same, so weren't those who wouldn't attend stupid for missing out on First Division football? I'm not saying the situations are comparable, just that it's no good to say that because most people think one way the rest should just fall into line or be ignored.
The club needs to base its decisions on what people will do, not what it thinks they ought to do, because in the end it's up to individuals to decide. In this case, attending is a marginal decision already for many people, as shown by the attendances year on year. It doesn't take much for them to decide not to bother.
Surely they make their decisions based on what people have done before? They will surely know the average crowd attendance for this stage in the cup and this level of competition. They then work out which stands are most financially viable to accommodate that level of attendance. If pre day sales are unusually high they will have another meeting to discuss opening more areas and if it turns out that they get very high levels of walk up on the day and have to turn people away then they will chalk it down to experience and re-evaluate for the next similar game.
Personally I can't believe there will be high levels of people basing their attendance on where they can sit. The price, quality of competition and weather / likehood of it being abandoned on the day are much more likely to affect attendance.
Very eloquent reply and probably accurate in terms of the figures. It doesn't change my belief that some fans would prefer to sit in their own seats, but if money is tight and the club believe that they will not attract any fewer fans then I can see the financial decision being what it is.
Whether the club should close stands and prevent fans sitting in their own seat to save money is a different question, but if they believe that they will save enough money (and they might not) then I can see why they would make that decision.
Interesting, however, that it reads like they are justifying their commitment to the FA Cup by not trying to win it, necessarily, but by making it cheap to watch.
I appreciate the discussion on this and the response from the club as well as learning about the prize money at stake. In answer to the questions about scope and approach of the Trust please allow me to share a snippet from the Trust feedback survey which was filled in by c.400 members and subscribers. (The results have been shared with the Trust board and after discussion an article will be written up) The vast majority indicated they would renew membership and ask others - thanks. And they also indicated that more questions should be asked of the club in a more visible fashion. As ever the Trust board is taking guidance from its membership. I completely understand that some may feel the Trust could go too far but we had similar minority feedback about ACV when it was launched. This isn't about one cup match is it? It is about our clubs approach to the FA Cup and gleaning more information about what works and what doesn't to make this club sustainable.
I have no problem with the Trust asking the question about areas of the Stadium being closed.
However, as only 2,200 (so far) have deigned to feel it worth going to the FA Cup game, and we have had an informative response from the club, can't we just move on?
And, perhaps, instead of the Trust asking the club how serious they take the FA Cup, perhaps they should question supporters how seriously THEY take it?
I'm really am struggling to understand what the point of the trust is tbh, think it's now more about people trying to get ITK and getting one over other supports, this is a pointless argument the club is doing the right thing by trying to save money, thought that's what people wanted a well run club!!! It's not perfect but it's what we've got
I'm really struggling to see the problem. The fact is we'll get a small gate... so financially it makes sense to not open some of the stands? Anyone not going because they are not in their prestigious seat needs a look at themselves.
I appreciate the discussion on this and the response from the club as well as learning about the prize money at stake. In answer to the questions about scope and approach of the Trust please allow me to share a snippet from the Trust feedback survey which was filled in by c.400 members and subscribers. (The results have been shared with the Trust board and after discussion an article will be written up) The vast majority indicated they would renew membership and ask others - thanks. And they also indicated that more questions should be asked of the club in a more visible fashion. As ever the Trust board is taking guidance from its membership. I completely understand that some may feel the Trust could go too far but we had similar minority feedback about ACV when it was launched. This isn't about one cup match is it? It is about our clubs approach to the FA Cup and gleaning more information about what works and what doesn't to make this club sustainable.
I'm really am struggling to understand what the point of the trust is tbh, think it's now more about people trying to get ITK and getting one over other supports, this is a pointless argument the club is doing the right thing by trying to save money, thought that's what people wanted a well run club!!! It's not perfect but it's what we've got
the intention is quite the opposite, it is intended to formalise the relationship, so that there is an accountable, nationally recognised body that can be there for the long haul, to 'represent' fans interests
many people had questions about the clubs approach to the FA cup and through this action the club has been able to justify its actions, people may disagree with the response, but it is a step towards more open communication
Obviously biased but getting that communication is worthwhile - statements like "significant savings" when there's credible evidence from credible sources to the contrary should be challenged. In this instance it was and the response was adequate (basically my main concern was that I thought the FA Cup was being de-prioritised, the answer made reference to that concern).
Hopefully all 2,200 of us can now look forward to the game !
I'm pleased the Trust has got a response, but it doesn't really address the figures I've put forward elsewhere, the extent to which costs are shared or, crucially, the effect on revenue. But I wouldn't expect the club to engage on that level to be honest.
Key points to understand are that Huddersfield was £15/£10/£5 and advance sales for a cup game, especially given the pitch issue/weather and after the club has been closed for two days, tell you very little. They are always the hardest games to predict walk-up and 2,200 sold 48 hours out is in no way surprising.
But we can all predict it will be postponed and that will reduce the eventual crowd anyway.
The club has to make a call - whether it is the right call or wrong one, it has made it. It can't be compared to leaving the Valley and even if you think it is wrong, you can understand the reasons for it being made. That is all there should be to it I think.
The club has to make a call - whether it is the right call or wrong one, it has made it. It can't be compared to leaving the Valley and even if you think it is wrong, you can understand the reasons for it being made. That is all there should be to it I think.
Not sure it's been compared to that. Be interesting to see what happens anyway.
But only we can moan about the arrangements for a game that is going to get postponed anyway. The re-arranged game may carry a new set of circumstances- a juicy draw in the next round boosting interest -midweek etc....
Comments
The club needs to base its decisions on what people will do, not what it thinks they ought to do, because in the end it's up to individuals to decide. In this case, attending is a marginal decision already for many people, as shown by the attendances year on year. It doesn't take much for them to decide not to bother.
AB: 'it's no good to say that because most people think one way the rest should just fall into line or be ignored'.
Oh the irony of this place! Cracks me up
If pre day sales are unusually high they will have another meeting to discuss opening more areas and if it turns out that they get very high levels of walk up on the day and have to turn people away then they will chalk it down to experience and re-evaluate for the next similar game.
Personally I can't believe there will be high levels of people basing their attendance on where they can sit. The price, quality of competition and weather / likehood of it being abandoned on the day are much more likely to affect attendance.
Close thread
Whether the club should close stands and prevent fans sitting in their own seat to save money is a different question, but if they believe that they will save enough money (and they might not) then I can see why they would make that decision.
Interesting, however, that it reads like they are justifying their commitment to the FA Cup by not trying to win it, necessarily, but by making it cheap to watch.
Fair enough response from Bradshaw. Sweating the asset
The vast majority indicated they would renew membership and ask others - thanks. And they also indicated that more questions should be asked of the club in a more visible fashion.
As ever the Trust board is taking guidance from its membership.
I completely understand that some may feel the Trust could go too far but we had similar minority feedback about ACV when it was launched.
This isn't about one cup match is it? It is about our clubs approach to the FA Cup and gleaning more information about what works and what doesn't to make this club sustainable.
However, as only 2,200 (so far) have deigned to feel it worth going to the FA Cup game, and we have had an informative response from the club, can't we just move on?
And, perhaps, instead of the Trust asking the club how serious they take the FA Cup, perhaps they should question supporters how seriously THEY take it?
many people had questions about the clubs approach to the FA cup and through this action the club has been able to justify its actions, people may disagree with the response, but it is a step towards more open communication
Hopefully all 2,200 of us can now look forward to the game !
Key points to understand are that Huddersfield was £15/£10/£5 and advance sales for a cup game, especially given the pitch issue/weather and after the club has been closed for two days, tell you very little. They are always the hardest games to predict walk-up and 2,200 sold 48 hours out is in no way surprising.
But we can all predict it will be postponed and that will reduce the eventual crowd anyway.