I don't think you can compare a game in August, when people may not have seen a live game for a while with a game at the start of Jan when it's freezing cold and most people are skint.
I'd also like to know how many people are committed enough to go to this game yet would be put off by not being able to sit in their normal seat.
Any comparative analysis of League Cup first round and FA Cup third round attendances would show the latter are significantly higher.
The club are opening around 8,000 home seats when I guess an estimated 3-4,000 home fans will go. In doing so it is.providing an option to sit on the side or sit behind the goal. Ie. There should be something for everyone.
Whether one stand or all stands are open on Saturday, it is likely to be one of the worst ever FA Cup turn outs in the Valley history.
It's for a whole multiple of reasons, but the East not being open isn't one of them.
You may be right, AFKA, as the club has gone out of its way over the years to discourage interest, on and off the pitch, but a home attendance of 4,000 or less at The Valley for the third round of the FA Cup on a Saturday would indeed, I think, be unprecedented.
I think the gate will be unprecedented - there are many more on here talking about not going that I remember before. I have missed just a few games since the late 80s, and all of them have been for a good reason. I'm choosing to not go to a home game, opposed to having something else I had to do, for the first time in 25 years. I'm not special in any way but if I'm feeling like that (and I was one of the 791 - from memory - that attended the league cup game at Selhurst and one of a smaller number that was at Steve Gritt's Testimonial) then I can see a lot of fans choosing to do something else.
We have hundreds (if not thousands) of season ticket holders that choose not to turn up for games when they already have a ticket and can sit in their normal seat, I can't see why this game would attract many at all. I also agree that an August evening after a long break when we'd just finished on a great run, would be more appealing that a cold/wet Saturday in January when the team are not playing very well.
The club are opening around 8,000 home seats when I guess an estimated 3-4,000 home fans will go. In doing so it is.providing an option to sit on the side or sit behind the goal. Ie. There should be something for everyone.
Whether one stand or all stands are open on Saturday, it is likely to be one of the worst ever FA Cup turn outs in the Valley history.
It's for a whole multiple of reasons, but the East not being open isn't one of them.
Spot on, AFKA
Why would you want to scatter a mere 3-4,000 fans over 3 different areas ?
I'd also like to know how many people are committed enough to go to this game yet would be put off by not being able to sit in their normal seat.
Surely thats an oxymoron ? , not sure how someone could be committed to attend.. yet refuse to do so due to having to move seats. It just seems like another petty reason to complain about the board who cant do anything right.
I'd also like to know how many people are committed enough to go to this game yet would be put off by not being able to sit in their normal seat.
Surely thats an oxymoron ? , not sure how someone could be committed to attend.. yet refuse to do so due to having to move seats. It just seems like another petty reason to complain about the board who cant do anything right.
That was the point I was trying to make, I'm not exactly sure what the Trust are hoping to achieve with all of this.
I don't think you can compare a game in August, when people may not have seen a live game for a while with a game at the start of Jan when it's freezing cold and most people are skint.
I'd also like to know how many people are committed enough to go to this game yet would be put off by not being able to sit in their normal seat.
Any comparative analysis of League Cup first round and FA Cup third round attendances would show the latter are significantly higher.
possibly slightly different this time as they are the same oppo.
I won't bother with this saturday's game as got other things to do, but I'm pretty sure it'll be off anyway and I'd more than likely go to the rearranged fixture
I'd also like to know how many people are committed enough to go to this game yet would be put off by not being able to sit in their normal seat.
Surely thats an oxymoron ? , not sure how someone could be committed to attend.. yet refuse to do so due to having to move seats. It just seems like another petty reason to complain about the board who cant do anything right.
That was the point I was trying to make, I'm not exactly sure what the Trust are hoping to achieve with all of this.
I agree that it isn't a huge issue to most and it wouldn't have stopped me attending but I also think the Trust are right to ask the questions of the Club as to what the business case is.
I don't think they have gone about it very well ie leaving it so late, the multiple threads/articles/not referencing the article in the programme in which the Club gave a partial answer or the previous debate on here which went over the same ground.
But I still think they are right to ask the question and seek more detail than "significant" savings
I don't think you can compare a game in August, when people may not have seen a live game for a while with a game at the start of Jan when it's freezing cold and most people are skint.
I'd also like to know how many people are committed enough to go to this game yet would be put off by not being able to sit in their normal seat.
Any comparative analysis of League Cup first round and FA Cup third round attendances would show the latter are significantly higher.
Airman that's simply not true. Looking at the attendances for the 2 League Cup first round matches and the 1 FA Cup third round matches that we've played in the last 3 years shows that attendances are very similar.
I think the question is more about the business case. The club have suggested there will be "significant" savings, Airman had suggested otherwise I believe therefore it seems correct to try and figure out which is right - asking for stands to be opened just so you can sit in the one you prefer is ludicrous although if you believe that shutting stands to suit the likely attendance isn't an issue then perhaps we should only opens 15,000 seats for every home game maybe shut the West stand) ?
The home support for Huddersfield was 6,158 - for Orient it was 4,935.
Reading is not really a like for like comparison IMO, as they were higher division opposition, but the home support was just under 6,000.
In general I also think Reading and Orient are more interesting opposition than Huddersfield, but that might just be me!
I've pulled the arguments together into a piece here for anyone who is interested.
Apologies for the "bollocks" statement. I've just taken a look at the attendances for 1st/2nd round FA Cup matches from the seasons we were in League 1 and I'd like to retract it.
7,461 Carlisle FA Cup 2nd Rnd 11/12 4,803 Barnet FA Cup 1st Rnd Replay (evening game) 10/11 8,682 Luton FA Cup 2nd Rnd 10/11
The home support for Huddersfield was 6,158 - for Orient it was 4,935.
Reading is not really a like for like comparison IMO, as they were higher division opposition, but the home support was just under 6,000.
In general I also think Reading and Orient are more interesting opposition than Huddersfield, but that might just be me!
I've pulled the arguments together into a piece here for anyone who is interested.
Apologies for the "bollocks" statement. I've just taken a look at the attendances for 1st/2nd round FA Cup matches from the seasons we were in League 1 and I'd like to retract it.
7,461 Carlisle FA Cup 2nd Rnd 11/12 4,803 Barnet FA Cup 1st Rnd Replay (evening game) 10/11 8,682 Luton FA Cup 2nd Rnd 10/11
it makes perfect sense to not open the east and the nth upper, saving hundreds of pounds only if that is the case is better than spunking 100s for no reason,
your season ticket doesn't cover cup matches does it ??? so you haven't lost your seat as it aint yours for that match
I think the question is more about the business case. The club have suggested there will be "significant" savings, Airman had suggested otherwise I believe therefore it seems correct to try and figure out which is right - asking for stands to be opened just so you can sit in the one you prefer is ludicrous although if you believe that shutting stands to suit the likely attendance isn't an issue then perhaps we should only opens 15,000 seats for every home game maybe shut the West stand) ?
Is it not quite obvious the business plan currently is to spend as little money as possible?
Is it not appropriate for a fans organisation to ask a few questions about it, not least because some kind of consultation/communication may be appropriate in some kind of future scenario? Or do we simply shrug and get on with it?
Those who say no big deal, what is the fuss about (there is very little actual fuss) have got a point, but might like to recognise that there are some people who simply like to have their usual place in the East Stand and elsewhere. No not logical, only a matter of personal taste, a bit like the personal taste that influences which team you support in the first place.
But the club could be doing them a favour - we are creatures of habit but a change can sometimes be refreshing. I changed armchair the other day and the novelty was nice for 20 minutes or so.
but surely also the thought of the fans organisation should be id do the same , on the principles that saving a £1coin when we are skint is better than spending one if we didn't need to
now if we based it on the assumption of noises that murmerd through here in the last couple of pre seasons about people not being paid in local business
that saving a hundred quid may have paid the veg bill for a fortnight
I don't see the problem either about the East Stand being closed just in the same that being a ST holder in the North Upper I couldn't care less that my seat will be unavailable for the game either - if I can be bothered to go that is.
edit - does it also not make logical sense if we're only going to sell 7,000 home tickets and i'm being very generous with this amount to put all the fans together in an area where we only need a 7,000 home capacity for? This makes the areas of the North Lower and West Lower ideal for the game.
For those who insist on sitting in the same seat why not take these rare chances to experience the match from a different part of the ground? You might even like it elsewhere, doubtful but it's not for the want of at least giving it a try anyway.
And someone mentioned closing the North altogether to keep the East open as it has better cover from the elements....really? there's plenty of shelter in the North Lower if you avoid the first three rows or so and we want *some* kind of atmosphere for the game don't we, therefore the North Lower needs to be open.
Anyone would think people are being evicted from there homes with the closure of the East!
The home support for Huddersfield was 6,158 - for Orient it was 4,935.
Reading is not really a like for like comparison IMO, as they were higher division opposition, but the home support was just under 6,000.
In general I also think Reading and Orient are more interesting opposition than Huddersfield, but that might just be me!
I've pulled the arguments together into a piece here for anyone who is interested.
Apologies for the "bollocks" statement. I've just taken a look at the attendances for 1st/2nd round FA Cup matches from the seasons we were in League 1 and I'd like to retract it.
7,461 Carlisle FA Cup 2nd Rnd 11/12 4,803 Barnet FA Cup 1st Rnd Replay (evening game) 10/11 8,682 Luton FA Cup 2nd Rnd 10/11
Pretty sure Luton would have sold whatever we gave them, so maybe 6500 or less Charlton for that game
Well I have my tickets already, and it is in the covered end, and I shall sing. I reckon that Oxford will p*ss all over us for atmosphere as well as win the match.
The club can't have it both ways. They can't 'sell' the season tickets when it works out no cheaper if you miss a couple of games, and you factor in paying for the ticket months in advance when the big selling point is that you have your own seat. I have no idea if there is any small print in the T&Cs that says that they don't actually have to deliver your specific seat for any or all games, but with such paltry attendances (despite what they quote) there is no chance of any fan not getting in for any games.
It is easy to see that many season ticket holders are missing for many games. It is not difficult to make savings by passing on the ridiculously priced £30 games, so I am inclined to believe that the only benefit of buying a season ticket is to have the same seat.
I can be a bit of a stick in the mud, and I'm not going in any case, but irrespective as to how many posters on here belittle those of us that feel as though our usual seat should be made available it doesn't change the fact that there are more than a handful that do not agree with closing the stands that they normally sit in.
We will never know how many fans choose to stay away because they can't have their own seat because you can't try it both ways, but I'm convinced that anyone that wasn't sure they were going to go would be put off by having to select a different seat, park somewhere else or walk a lot further around the ground and not have the same type of view that they are used to and not sit with the same group they normally do. Let's remember that players, managers and the division we play in changes. The only constant in the ground and your own seat!
I think it is perfectly acceptable for the FF or the Trust to be asking the club what they are doing, and why. If the club want to come out and be open ans say that we are looking to get out of the FA Cup as soon as possible and we will be fielding a reserve team and only opening half the ground and don't really want anyone to come then fine. However, I don't think they will offer that explination unless we ask them.
So, to recap what some on here are whingeing about ...
That not ALL stands will be open for this Cup match ( If East Standers are miffed about their regular seats being unavailable, then why not Upper North & West regulars too ? )
But does this make any sense ????
Each stand that is open requires turnstile operators, matchday stewards, kiosk facilities, cleaners post match and surveillance from the "Police Box " between the JS & West Stands.
In addition, the level of noise for supporting the home team would be diminished in light of the scatter of supporters.
The Valley would look ridiculously "empty" to the cameras /news coverage...do we need another reason for Palace fans to snigger in our direction ?
It seems to me, and of course this is purely my personal opinion, that the use of 2 words by the Club to justify their decision has escalated to a ridiculous level , especially at a time when surely we should ALL be concentrating our energies into the future of our Club and short term, survival in this league.
The Club will know how many tickets have been sold thus far....does the Trust ? Should we expect the Trust to be consulted before any decision affecting supporters is made?( and that would mean anything directly or indirectly - pretty much everything!) And finally, I'd like to ask how many Trust members have approached razil & co to investigate this issue.
This is not an anti Trust post - I took out my membership at the launch in Bartrams on 5th December 2012 and donated the gaffer's signed training top worth circa £450 for auction to raise much needed funds.
But I am concerned that those involved on the Board are becoming too embroiled in matters which may alienate not only the Club but also the majority of supporters who are not supportive of the Trust in the first place. Dialogue, communication - whatever word you care to use- IS important but IMHO should not be over utilised. The result could be withdrawal of this facility rather than the opposite.
But the club could be doing them a favour - we are creatures of habit but a change can sometimes be refreshing. I changed armchair the other day and the novelty was nice for 20 minutes or so.
But the club could be doing them a favour - we are creatures of habit but a change can sometimes be refreshing. I changed armchair the other day and the novelty was nice for 20 minutes or so.
I think a few of our fans should invest in "Who moved my cheese". Creature of habit is an unhealthy human trait!
So, to recap what some on here are whingeing about ...
That not ALL stands will be open for this Cup match ( If East Standers are miffed about their regular seats being unavailable, then why not Upper North & West regulars too ? )
But does this make any sense ????
Each stand that is open requires turnstile operators, matchday stewards, kiosk facilities, cleaners post match and surveillance from the "Police Box " between the JS & West Stands.
In addition, the level of noise for supporting the home team would be diminished in light of the scatter of supporters.
The Valley would look ridiculously "empty" to the cameras /news coverage...do we need another reason for Palace fans to snigger in our direction ?
It seems to me, and of course this is purely my personal opinion, that the use of 2 words by the Club to justify their decision has escalated to a ridiculous level , especially at a time when surely we should ALL be concentrating our energies into the future of our Club and short term, survival in this league.
The Club will know how many tickets have been sold thus far....does the Trust ? Should we expect the Trust to be consulted before any decision affecting supporters is made?( and that would mean anything directly or indirectly - pretty much everything!) And finally, I'd like to ask how many Trust members have approached razil & co to investigate this issue.
This is not an anti Trust post - I took out my membership at the launch in Bartrams on 5th December 2012 and donated the gaffer's signed training top worth circa £450 for auction to raise much needed funds.
But I am concerned that those involved on the Board are becoming too embroiled in matters which may alienate not only the Club but also the majority of supporters who are not supportive of the Trust in the first place. Dialogue, communication - whatever word you care to use- IS important but IMHO should not be over utilised. The result could be withdrawal of this facility rather than the opposite.
I think the club will look more ridiculous closing one side of the ground when the lower west will be crammed, reducing catering revenue because of the congestion, to be honest. This was tried before for the JPT in 2009 and 2010 and dropped in 2011 because it had caused too many problems. This is just another version of the same thing, with the lower north also open for a bigger competition.
People will have different views and no one is right or wrong, but I think those of us who disagree with it are entitled to our view and to expect that any discussion is based on facts, i.e. not lauding a saving that may well not exist. That's what doesn't make sense, Fanny. I wouldn't imagine the lower west would be much more empty with the east open than it is for most other games, also shown on TV. As I warned it would be, Millwall was the best example of that.
Advance ticket sales will tell you very little for a game like this. Who knows what the effect of a takeover announcement might be on the walk-up?
It won't stop me going to the game (if it's on!), but I know others who are not going because of it.
Comments
That was a rhetorical question as it's once!
We have hundreds (if not thousands) of season ticket holders that choose not to turn up for games when they already have a ticket and can sit in their normal seat, I can't see why this game would attract many at all. I also agree that an August evening after a long break when we'd just finished on a great run, would be more appealing that a cold/wet Saturday in January when the team are not playing very well.
Why would you want to scatter a mere 3-4,000 fans over 3 different areas ?
Talk about looking silly !
I won't bother with this saturday's game as got other things to do, but I'm pretty sure it'll be off anyway and I'd more than likely go to the rearranged fixture
I don't think they have gone about it very well ie leaving it so late, the multiple threads/articles/not referencing the article in the programme in which the Club gave a partial answer or the previous debate on here which went over the same ground.
But I still think they are right to ask the question and seek more detail than "significant" savings
League Cup
Leyton Orient 5,914
Reading 6,668
FA Cup
Huddersfield 6,657
Reading is not really a like for like comparison IMO, as they were higher division opposition, but the home support was just under 6,000.
In general I also think Reading and Orient are more interesting opposition than Huddersfield, but that might just be me!
I've pulled the arguments together into a piece here for anyone who is interested.
I bought tickets for the FA cup in the West Stand.
As I did for the League Cup.
TBH, I don't know what the fuss is about!
7,461 Carlisle FA Cup 2nd Rnd 11/12
4,803 Barnet FA Cup 1st Rnd Replay (evening game) 10/11
8,682 Luton FA Cup 2nd Rnd 10/11
it makes perfect sense to not open the east and the nth upper, saving hundreds of pounds only if that is the case is better than spunking 100s for no reason,
your season ticket doesn't cover cup matches does it ??? so you haven't lost your seat as it aint yours for that match
Is it not appropriate for a fans organisation to ask a few questions about it, not least because some kind of consultation/communication may be appropriate in some kind of future scenario? Or do we simply shrug and get on with it?
Those who say no big deal, what is the fuss about (there is very little actual fuss) have got a point, but might like to recognise that there are some people who simply like to have their usual place in the East Stand and elsewhere. No not logical, only a matter of personal taste, a bit like the personal taste that influences which team you support in the first place.
now if we based it on the assumption of noises that murmerd through here in the last couple of pre seasons about people not being paid in local business
that saving a hundred quid may have paid the veg bill for a fortnight
edit - does it also not make logical sense if we're only going to sell 7,000 home tickets and i'm being very generous with this amount to put all the fans together in an area where we only need a 7,000 home capacity for? This makes the areas of the North Lower and West Lower ideal for the game.
For those who insist on sitting in the same seat why not take these rare chances to experience the match from a different part of the ground? You might even like it elsewhere, doubtful but it's not for the want of at least giving it a try anyway.
And someone mentioned closing the North altogether to keep the East open as it has better cover from the elements....really? there's plenty of shelter in the North Lower if you avoid the first three rows or so and we want *some* kind of atmosphere for the game don't we, therefore the North Lower needs to be open.
Anyone would think people are being evicted from there homes with the closure of the East!
It is easy to see that many season ticket holders are missing for many games. It is not difficult to make savings by passing on the ridiculously priced £30 games, so I am inclined to believe that the only benefit of buying a season ticket is to have the same seat.
I can be a bit of a stick in the mud, and I'm not going in any case, but irrespective as to how many posters on here belittle those of us that feel as though our usual seat should be made available it doesn't change the fact that there are more than a handful that do not agree with closing the stands that they normally sit in.
We will never know how many fans choose to stay away because they can't have their own seat because you can't try it both ways, but I'm convinced that anyone that wasn't sure they were going to go would be put off by having to select a different seat, park somewhere else or walk a lot further around the ground and not have the same type of view that they are used to and not sit with the same group they normally do. Let's remember that players, managers and the division we play in changes. The only constant in the ground and your own seat!
I think it is perfectly acceptable for the FF or the Trust to be asking the club what they are doing, and why. If the club want to come out and be open ans say that we are looking to get out of the FA Cup as soon as possible and we will be fielding a reserve team and only opening half the ground and don't really want anyone to come then fine. However, I don't think they will offer that explination unless we ask them.
That not ALL stands will be open for this Cup match ( If East Standers are miffed about their regular seats being unavailable, then why not Upper North & West regulars too ? )
But does this make any sense ????
Each stand that is open requires turnstile operators, matchday stewards, kiosk facilities, cleaners post match and surveillance from the "Police Box " between the JS & West Stands.
In addition, the level of noise for supporting the home team would be diminished in light of the scatter of supporters.
The Valley would look ridiculously "empty" to the cameras /news coverage...do we need another reason for Palace fans to snigger in our direction ?
It seems to me, and of course this is purely my personal opinion, that the use of 2 words by the Club to justify their decision has escalated to a ridiculous level , especially at a time when surely we should ALL be concentrating our energies into the future of our Club and short term, survival in this league.
The Club will know how many tickets have been sold thus far....does the Trust ? Should we expect the Trust to be consulted before any decision affecting supporters is made?( and that would mean anything directly or indirectly - pretty much everything!) And finally, I'd like to ask how many Trust members have approached razil & co to investigate this issue.
This is not an anti Trust post - I took out my membership at the launch in Bartrams on 5th December 2012 and donated the gaffer's signed training top worth circa £450 for auction to raise much needed funds.
But I am concerned that those involved on the Board are becoming too embroiled in matters which may alienate not only the Club but also the majority of supporters who are not supportive of the Trust in the first place. Dialogue, communication - whatever word you care to use- IS important but IMHO should not be over utilised. The result could be withdrawal of this facility rather than the opposite.
People will have different views and no one is right or wrong, but I think those of us who disagree with it are entitled to our view and to expect that any discussion is based on facts, i.e. not lauding a saving that may well not exist. That's what doesn't make sense, Fanny. I wouldn't imagine the lower west would be much more empty with the east open than it is for most other games, also shown on TV. As I warned it would be, Millwall was the best example of that.
Advance ticket sales will tell you very little for a game like this. Who knows what the effect of a takeover announcement might be on the walk-up?
It won't stop me going to the game (if it's on!), but I know others who are not going because of it.