ACV does not prevent a move from the Valley. It is purely there in case some shark / desperate broke owner tries to sell the Valley to run off with the money / recoup losses from sale of the ground. The result of that being that Charlton ended up ground sharing with Orient / West Ham / C Palace or Millwall. It allows for a small gap for the fans to respond and try to stay at the Valley.
Any new (decent) owner, would want to communicate with the fanbase / customers of Charlton / new business – particularly if suggesting a stadium move.
Any decent owner has nothing to fear from ACV, Charlton supporters or the Trust. ACV does not prevent any positive moves from the club. The idea that ACV prevents any decent owners from taking over the club as Charlton fans are not prepared to move from the Valley in a positive move is just plain wrong / misguided. ACV if anything can enhance a bid for a stadium on the Peninisula.
There is a good chance that some in the Council would prefer Social Housing at the Valley and posh new superflats on the Peninsula with no pesky football club or supporters to deal with. ACV picks up Charlton as a stakeholder and if a company wants to be part of the Peninsula and wants a stadium there, the fact that Charlton Athletic is at the Valley as a recognised stakeholder is helpful. Council can make a deal for Social Housing in exchange for approval of an agreement for a new stadium.
ACV is about Charlton retaining a home in the Charlton area, and if you oppose ACV for me, it is not supporting Charlton in the Greenwich area / Peninsula. If as a Charlton fan you support that, then you should support the Trust and ACV.
I never said we speak for them we merely present what fans we have approached say, we have covered an awful lot of channels with very limited manpower, but still reached a large number
I would absolutely love to have been able to contact every single fan and explain acv, rather than the slice that we have managed to, but I can tell you we have made a massive effort so far to do so I can assure you.
Some people have still never heard of the trust, yet we have distributed 8500?? Tnt 3000 of which were given away free with the match day programme, 2000 publicised acv also given away free.
We had stalls in the west, outside the shop, the lib, and many outside the north, and at club day, sounds like we could have had a lot more in the East, praps we'll keep the petition open and see just how many we can get who knows.
I know everyone is gutted about the proposed takeover not going ahead, and that with are left with the uncertainity of MS and TJ but Charlton fans need to get a grip.
The only one who can really tell you why they have not taken over the club is Josh Harris. IMO, It is unlikely to have anything to do with ACV.
Raz, I in no way want to degenerate what you are doing. However you don't necessary speak for the majority of Charlton fans. My parents have not missed a home game for ages. They no nothing of the Trust. They live in East Sussex, don't use the net, don't listen to local radio obviously, are not a member of a Supporters Group, wouldn't have a clue what twitter is etc etc. The two people who sit in front of us likewise. I come up on Valley Express and people ask me what is going on with certain things. I also hear other talking on the coach who also have no clue about what is going on about a great many things. I think that actually our fan base is quite old and the above is not isolated in that fan base but actually quite widespread.
So no I don't ignore facts that don't suit my view but it seems you quite likely are ignoring great swaths of our fanbase. I'm quite sure you could arrange for each coach to have copies of your magazine on board for each traveller to have a copy etc etc, hand out leaflets at turnstiles other than those at the North Stand.
As said I'm not against what you are doing at all but I don't think you can in any way say you speak for the majority of Charlton fans as a great many know nothing about you at all.
What do you expect the Trust to do Large, come round and knock on your Mum and Dad's front door? If people live outside the club's main catchment area and don't make any effort to communicate with the world using modern means it's going to be very hard for the Trust to reach them.
We get a minority of the population sufficiently informed and exorcised to take part in General elections, with something like Football Club politics you're only ever going get a tiny minority taking an active interest. Most people want to know the score on a Saturday and the headline news like signings and sacking and that's about it.
Ridiculous diversion to blame ACV or the Trust. Why can't people see what's in front of them?
Because it's confusing? But I'll have a crack at it anyway. Slater knew by the Ipswich game that the deal had fallen through, (but the lesser mortals around him, at the Ipswich game, still thought it was going ahead). The chummy totally private tete a tete Slater had with Roberts has bothered me ever since. The ACV had been, IMO, quite deliberately and cynically delayed until they knew the deal had fallen though. It isn't the Trust and the ACV that has caused any problem, it is all about what TJ and MS have put in their due diligence paper work. It's enticing some big players. But then, lo and behold, the potential buyers discover that all that glisters is not gold. So they try to negotiate a fall in price which gets turned down. Then the news leaks out, something I imagine TJ and MS were not keen to happen. The club has just become worth less money maybe because there are people trying to drive the price down to a realistic level. I refuse to give up hope!!!
Ridiculous diversion to blame ACV or the Trust. Why can't people see what's in front of them?
Because it's confusing? But I'll have a crack at it anyway. Slater knew by the Ipswich game that the deal had fallen through, (but the lesser mortals around him, at the Ipswich game, still thought it was going ahead). The chummy totally private tete a tete Slater had with Roberts has bothered me ever since. The ACV had been, IMO, quite deliberately and cynically delayed until they knew the deal had fallen though. It isn't the Trust and the ACV that has caused any problem, it is all about what TJ and MS have put in their due diligence paper work. It's enticing some big players. But then, lo and behold, the potential buyers discover that all that glisters is not gold. So they try to negotiate a fall in price which gets turned down. Then the news leaks out, something I imagine TJ and MS were not keen to happen. The club has just become worth less money maybe because there are people trying to drive the price down to a realistic level. I refuse to give up hope!!!
Maybe RBG suddenly pushed the ACV through because the sale looked likely to close - it wouldn't have been good PR for them if the club was sold while the ACV was tied up in red tape.
Raz, I in no way want to degenerate what you are doing. However you don't necessary speak for the majority of Charlton fans. My parents have not missed a home game for ages. They no nothing of the Trust. They live in East Sussex, don't use the net, don't listen to local radio obviously, are not a member of a Supporters Group, wouldn't have a clue what twitter is etc etc. The two people who sit in front of us likewise. I come up on Valley Express and people ask me what is going on with certain things. I also hear other talking on the coach who also have no clue about what is going on about a great many things. I think that actually our fan base is quite old and the above is not isolated in that fan base but actually quite widespread.
So no I don't ignore facts that don't suit my view but it seems you quite likely are ignoring great swaths of our fanbase. I'm quite sure you could arrange for each coach to have copies of your magazine on board for each traveller to have a copy etc etc, hand out leaflets at turnstiles other than those at the North Stand.
As said I'm not against what you are doing at all but I don't think you can in any way say you speak for the majority of Charlton fans as a great many know nothing about you at all.
What do you expect the Trust to do Large, come round and knock on your Mum and Dad's front door?
If you do can you ring first to see if they need any milk, bread etc ;-)
Exiled Addick said : 'If people live outside the club's main catchment area and don't make any effort to communicate with the world using modern means it's going to be very hard for the Trust to reach them.'
I've tried to get them to use the net but they are 80 now and my Dad's only just sussed how the Hoover works !!
I am not anti trust. I don't think the takeover collapsing has anything to do with either the Trust or the ACV being granted. All I am saying is that although 2,000 signatures on the petition is great it shouldn't be seen as an absolute endorsement of what you are doing. I applaud those involved and know the hard work that is being done by a good number of people and I'd never diss that. It is true though that a great many fans know nothing of the Trust or what an ACV even is.
Charlton sale off table American billionaire Joshua Harris has pulled out of talks to buy Charlton, who are being kept afloat by Mayfair property developer Kevin Cash. It is understood Harris, who owns basketball’s Philadelphia 76ers and ice hockey’s New Jersey Devils, and associates withdrew their interest at the due diligence stage. Charlton’s claim to own land on the Greenwich peninsular near the O2 Arena is said to be an issue.
Charlton’s claim to own land on the Greenwich peninsular near the O2 Arena is said to be an issue.
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Why would the club (TJ / MS) claim to own land on the Greenwich peninsular near the 02 arena if they don't ffs ? (Assuming that the above quote has any validity ?)
This is what Due Diligence is for, I guess to identify any owner bullshit.
I am 'team Valley' but understand a move in the future may be beneficial.
However, even if the trust didn't canvas all supporters - sorry Large, disagree with you on this - ignorance or nonchalance of what is planned, by others, for the club's future without any process in place to protect our 'bricks and mortar' may lead us back to '85.
I liken the 'guaranteed' dream for Premership football at what ever cost long term to the behaviour that caused the economic problems of the last five years.
Charlton sale off table American billionaire Joshua Harris has pulled out of talks to buy Charlton, who are being kept afloat by Mayfair property developer Kevin Cash. It is understood Harris, who owns basketball’s Philadelphia 76ers and ice hockey’s New Jersey Devils, and associates withdrew their interest at the due diligence stage. Charlton’s claim to own land on the Greenwich peninsular near the O2 Arena is said to be an issue.
Probably told them we still owned the ground at Angerstein Athletic - where that business park, the Royal Mail sorting office & the Chinese supermarket is these days.
I think we really are seeing what clowns run our club now. How on earth do they think they can pull the wool over so many people's eyes. I really do wonder how long it's going to be before the fans show their frustration on match days?
A fair bit of land is leased out as well. I still think this is why Cash pulled the plug, he didn't get the land he was after. But, as the land is heavily contaminated, the costs involved in a clean will be enormous and you will still have gas explosion potential so no underground heating is allowed in any future stadium. (This is a problem in the Stade de France). The more you look at it, the more problems seem to crop up. TJ at some stage will surely have to realise that he is losing more than he can hope to gain?
Charlton sale off table American billionaire Joshua Harris has pulled out of talks to buy Charlton, who are being kept afloat by Mayfair property developer Kevin Cash. It is understood Harris, who owns basketball’s Philadelphia 76ers and ice hockey’s New Jersey Devils, and associates withdrew their interest at the due diligence stage. Charlton’s claim to own land on the Greenwich peninsular near the O2 Arena is said to be an issue.
Raz, I in no way want to degenerate what you are doing. However you don't necessary speak for the majority of Charlton fans. My parents have not missed a home game for ages. They no nothing of the Trust. They live in East Sussex, don't use the net, don't listen to local radio obviously, are not a member of a Supporters Group, wouldn't have a clue what twitter is etc etc. The two people who sit in front of us likewise. I come up on Valley Express and people ask me what is going on with certain things. I also hear other talking on the coach who also have no clue about what is going on about a great many things. I think that actually our fan base is quite old and the above is not isolated in that fan base but actually quite widespread.
So no I don't ignore facts that don't suit my view but it seems you quite likely are ignoring great swaths of our fanbase. I'm quite sure you could arrange for each coach to have copies of your magazine on board for each traveller to have a copy etc etc, hand out leaflets at turnstiles other than those at the North Stand.
As said I'm not against what you are doing at all but I don't think you can in any way say you speak for the majority of Charlton fans as a great many know nothing about you at all.
What do you expect the Trust to do Large, come round and knock on your Mum and Dad's front door?
If you do can you ring first to see if they need any milk, bread etc ;-)
Exiled Addick said : 'If people live outside the club's main catchment area and don't make any effort to communicate with the world using modern means it's going to be very hard for the Trust to reach them.'
I've tried to get them to use the net but they are 80 now and my Dad's only just sussed how the Hoover works !!
I am not anti trust. I don't think the takeover collapsing has anything to do with either the Trust or the ACV being granted. All I am saying is that although 2,000 signatures on the petition is great it shouldn't be seen as an absolute endorsement of what you are doing. I applaud those involved and know the hard work that is being done by a good number of people and I'd never diss that. It is true though that a great many fans know nothing of the Trust or what an ACV even is.
That's fair enough Large, but there is only so much the Trust (which is after all a relatively small, charitably funded, voluntary organization) can do to contact people. If they're trying to get their message out using local news media, the internet and leaflets/manned stalls at games then they've got most bases covered. It's then up to us to try meet them halfway and at least be on the look out for news about the club.
If people don't read, listen to the radio, go online and throw any leaflet they are given in the bin then it's really their fault when the Zombie Apocalypse hits and they get bitten watching Countdown with the back door open. (No lewd jokes about Countdown and backdoors please).
And as for takeovers and lying owners, I wonder if it is not about time that we as supporters put together our own prospectus - dearly beloved club with unique history and great potential seeks committed, rich owner for long term and mutually beneficial relationship etc etc...or does that sound too much like an Acworth letter?
If someone at the club (MS or TJ) Have said they own that land maybe they have been to Greenwich Council and have found out that the could own it providing they give Greenwich Council the land where The Valley currently sits. Then MS or TJ have told JH that they own it and not said they could own it thats why JH has pulled out because he found out that the process to own that land is harder then he thought at first. Well that's my theory anyway
Charlton sale off table American billionaire Joshua Harris has pulled out of talks to buy Charlton, who are being kept afloat by Mayfair property developer Kevin Cash. It is understood Harris, who owns basketball’s Philadelphia 76ers and ice hockey’s New Jersey Devils, and associates withdrew their interest at the due diligence stage. Charlton’s claim to own land on the Greenwich peninsular near the O2 Arena is said to be an issue.
Surprised at the general “oh well, it’s charlton” reaction. TJ and MS are getting off very lightly. I would’ve thought that, given our history, we’d be a bit more vocal about our club getting screwed.
Surprised at the general “oh well, it’s charlton” reaction. TJ and MS are getting off very lightly. I would’ve thought that, given our history, we’d be a bit more vocal about our club getting screwed.
Totally agree. We got used to having a good, communicative board of directors for a long time, until these two took over. It's obvious they want to sell, it's obvious they are asking too much and won't budge. And from recent comments perhaps there is more to this than any of us fans imagined.
Of course there's no on obligation for them to say anything and until the deal is officially dead in the water then I wouldn't expect anything, but when the seemingly inevitable is confirmed then a comment would be appreciated.
And failing that,it must be time for a more vocal/visible response from the fans
Comments
Any new (decent) owner, would want to communicate with the fanbase / customers of Charlton / new business – particularly if suggesting a stadium move.
Any decent owner has nothing to fear from ACV, Charlton supporters or the Trust. ACV does not prevent any positive moves from the club. The idea that ACV prevents any decent owners from taking over the club as Charlton fans are not prepared to move from the Valley in a positive move is just plain wrong / misguided. ACV if anything can enhance a bid for a stadium on the Peninisula.
There is a good chance that some in the Council would prefer Social Housing at the Valley and posh new superflats on the Peninsula with no pesky football club or supporters to deal with. ACV picks up Charlton as a stakeholder and if a company wants to be part of the Peninsula and wants a stadium there, the fact that Charlton Athletic is at the Valley as a recognised stakeholder is helpful. Council can make a deal for Social Housing in exchange for approval of an agreement for a new stadium.
ACV is about Charlton retaining a home in the Charlton area, and if you oppose ACV for me, it is not supporting Charlton in the Greenwich area / Peninsula. If as a Charlton fan you support that, then you should support the Trust and ACV.
I would absolutely love to have been able to contact every single fan and explain acv, rather than the slice that we have managed to, but I can tell you we have made a massive effort so far to do so I can assure you.
Some people have still never heard of the trust, yet we have distributed 8500?? Tnt 3000 of which were given away free with the match day programme, 2000 publicised acv also given away free.
We had stalls in the west, outside the shop, the lib, and many outside the north, and at club day, sounds like we could have had a lot more in the East, praps we'll keep the petition open and see just how many we can get who knows.
The only one who can really tell you why they have not taken over the club is Josh Harris. IMO, It is unlikely to have anything to do with ACV.
We get a minority of the population sufficiently informed and exorcised to take part in General elections, with something like Football Club politics you're only ever going get a tiny minority taking an active interest. Most people want to know the score on a Saturday and the headline news like signings and sacking and that's about it.
Exiled Addick said : 'If people live outside the club's main catchment area and don't make any effort to communicate with the world using modern means it's going to be very hard for the Trust to reach them.'
I've tried to get them to use the net but they are 80 now and my Dad's only just sussed how the Hoover works !!
I am not anti trust. I don't think the takeover collapsing has anything to do with either the Trust or the ACV being granted. All I am saying is that although 2,000 signatures on the petition is great it shouldn't be seen as an absolute endorsement of what you are doing. I applaud those involved and know the hard work that is being done by a good number of people and I'd never diss that. It is true though that a great many fans know nothing of the Trust or what an ACV even is.
Charlton sale off table
American billionaire Joshua Harris has pulled out of talks to buy Charlton, who are being kept afloat by Mayfair property developer Kevin Cash.
It is understood Harris, who owns basketball’s Philadelphia 76ers and ice hockey’s New Jersey Devils, and associates withdrew their interest at the due diligence stage. Charlton’s claim to own land on the Greenwich peninsular near the O2 Arena is said to be an issue.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2522174/No-mercy-Arsenal-coach-Mark-Arber-Mesut-Ozil-betting-scandal--Charles-Sale.html
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Why would the club (TJ / MS) claim to own land on the Greenwich peninsular near the 02 arena if they don't ffs ? (Assuming that the above quote has any validity ?)
This is what Due Diligence is for, I guess to identify any owner bullshit.
I am 'team Valley' but understand a move in the future may be beneficial.
However, even if the trust didn't canvas all supporters - sorry Large, disagree with you on this - ignorance or nonchalance of what is planned, by others, for the club's future without any process in place to protect our 'bricks and mortar' may lead us back to '85.
I liken the 'guaranteed' dream for Premership football at what ever cost long term to the behaviour that caused the economic problems of the last five years.
WTF? It could be a Chinese whispers cock-up on Charles Sale's part, but...
The Morden Wharf site is owned by Cathedral Group and Development Securities PLC. AFAIK the rest of the land close to the O2 is mostly owned either by GLA Land & Property (essentially, Boris/City Hall) or Meridian Delta (AEG).
There is plenty to be critical of on here!
and this is how I feel after 55 PAGES of this thread:
If people don't read, listen to the radio, go online and throw any leaflet they are given in the bin then it's really their fault when the Zombie Apocalypse hits and they get bitten watching Countdown with the back door open. (No lewd jokes about Countdown and backdoors please).
Then MS or TJ have told JH that they own it and not said they could own it thats why JH has pulled out because he found out that the process to own that land is harder then he thought at first.
Well that's my theory anyway
Of course there's no on obligation for them to say anything and until the deal is officially dead in the water then I wouldn't expect anything, but when the seemingly inevitable is confirmed then a comment would be appreciated.
And failing that,it must be time for a more vocal/visible response from the fans