Still can't believe we lost this one. Leeds were average, except for McCormack, and were their usual dirty, time wasting, cynical selves. However, the referee clearly fell for it all and was very weak - the weakest at the valley this season I feel. He played into their hands. From 80 to 90 minutes on the clock, the ball was only in play for about have of that time as they were rolling on the floor and time wasting, so how did he only add 4 mins for the whole half! The other significant factor, as has been said, is the difference between the two keepers: Hamer flapped and let in 2 soft goals, whereas Kenny made 2 great saves. Never been into Hamer bashing but he is not helping the back 4 and does not instil confidence at corners or free kicks. Apart from his goal, Stewart was invisible and afraid to stand up to their physical approach - wish Chris would have replaced him not Harriot. Wilson had a poor game also. Church, Morro, Jacko, Wiggy all worked their socks off as ever. But... roll on the next game and the next win.
Jackson what a great player and such a big character . Don't care about the result today I thought barring the rare fatal errors charlton the team performed very well and their keeper saved them from defeat. Take the positives from this and look forward to QPR
Gave the game a swerve due to uncertainty over kick-off and went to the Welling FA cup game (which was an absolute cracker!)
Was initially relieved I missed the Leeds game as from looking at the score line it sounded like we'd had a horror show. However after speaking to people it seems that Leeds had the all luck today.
Can't believe they scored 4. Absolute mess for their third goal, god knows what Hamer was doing. Kenny made a couple of decent saves to keep them in it and I thought at 2-2 we would go on and win it but the indecisiveness for the third goal finished us off. Pissed of because Leeds weren't that good and this was justified by their time wasting in the first half and as for the ref, what an absolute joke. Great strike by Stewart and superb assist by Church for Jackos goal. Not sure what bringing Kermo on for as he was way off the pace. Hacked off.
Everyone has said it already but 1StevieG echoes my thoughts the closest.
Didn't think SCP would unleash The Beast today and agree that it didn't really work- 2 more weeks and hopefully he'll be the reason Green is picking the ball out of his net...more than once.
A fit Woody would have enhanced our defence & we really don't "do" soggy pitches, do we.
A draw , if not a jammy 3-2 win would have been fair IMHO but McC was something special.....shame.
Unlike SG, I'm not exactly hacked off but disappointed in the final score which flattered time wasting, gobby, dirty Leeds.
But we did show the home crowd glimpses of the decent passing football we've seen away from home recently and there are a lot of positives to build on ...when there is a level(dry) playing field....
You can't give away cheap goals like we did today and expect to win. The worst thing is that we made leeds look a half decent side and they are average at best. If harriet is goal side the pen should be avoided and what hamer is doing for the third goal only he knows. Strange that it comes on the back of 4 straight clean sheets, but there you go. Having a 2 week break before we get a chance to put things right doesn't help either.
Does anyone think the 4-1-4-1 was completely wrong today? A formation which sucess lies in possession but the valley swamp was never going to accommodate?
Well I don't think we lost because of it. We created a fair few chances but couldn't put them away and didn't actually give them many opportunities. The difference ultimately was the class (at championship level) striker they have.
Nope. Bang on. Leeds played a 5-3-2 to 3-4-1-2, as they did in the recent Sky game against Birmingham. CP set it up well. Cousins picked up Austin in the hole behind the front two, Jacko & Stephens played against Brown and Murphy; Harriott & Stewart played up against the wing backs. The Game Plan was to turn their static Back Three and get Church running in behind. They were rattled in the period up to half-time. I thought we dominated the play in the first half and up to the 73rd minute, even after suffering a poor decision on the penalty and then we suffered two poor free kick decisions on the third goal. The ref was guessing all afternoon and guessed wrong on all three occasions.
At 2-2 we are the likely winners, then the Referee is conned yet again into giving two soft free kicks and we defended poorly at the second free kick.
The introduction of Kermorgant failed. We lapsed into long hopeful balls against three tall centre backs. But the manager had to do something to change the pattern.
Apart from the excellence of McCormack, Leeds were a cynical team , but it was ever thus. Where before it was Dirty Leeds, it's now Diving/ Time-wasting Leeds. Disappointed in Brian McDermott, who was brought up at Arsenal with the likes of Brady & Rix. He's betraying his roots with that performance. However, Don Revie would be proud. I wouldn't like to watch that nonsense every week.
Was sat in NEQ and I thought the Leeds player dived on contact for the pen, rather than being tripped.
For the 3rd Leeds goal I thought it looked like Hamer thought Jacko was gonna deal with it. One of them got it wrong and at the time I thought it was JJ, but bow to others who believe Hamer was at fault. Do feel for Hamer though. Seems to get a lot of stick, some a bit OTT. For instance, granted his kicking today was not as good as other games, but it looked no worse than Kenny's.
Good game to watch, but very frustrating and unfair result.
I feel very sorry for the players today, because they certainly did not deserve to lose. The referee was so one sided it was unbelievable and Leeds were dirty, constantly play acting and very very lucky. The score flattered Leeds as they were not worthy of a 4-2 win.
Frustrating game because at 2-2 I definitely thought we wouldn't lose the game.
Obviously difficult conditions but I thought our midfield were again very good today and Wiggins my MOM.
Who knows what Hamer was dreaming about for the third goal, I will never be a fan but I think it was just destined to be one of those days
Horrible side and particularly Michael Brown, we had a bit of 'banter' just after he tried to get Morro sent off, good job I don't play I would just want to break his legs
Hope we get behind the side at QPR better than we did today
The referee was diabolical. Leeds played the referee, and cheated / dived for the penalty and fell over injured numerous times to break up play and held back promising Charlton positions. The balance of important decisions fell in Leeds favour. The crucial second goal, Harriots barely touched the leeds player and he dived headlong onto the pitch.
That is not the reason why we lost. Charlton lost due to tactical error and to the better individual quality of McCormack, Blackstock and Kenny. Leeds won because they took the opportunities that fell their way. They had better attacking quality. Blackstock did some decent hold up play that contributed to the first goal. Paddy Kenny made 2 excellent saves.
For Charlton, we created numerous promising positions but did not have enough quality in the final third. We also had a keeper who failed to manage his own six yard area.
Charlton had two attacking wingers on the pitch who left the full backs, exposed. This was not helped by Wilson constantly charging up the pitch. If that happens then someone has to fill the gap left and this did not happen consistently. With hindsight, given McCormack's individual quality, Pritchard on his case would have prevented Leeds scoring 4 goals.
I know some have reservations about Pritchard but he does help protect the defence and solidify the midfield. Pritchard is more diligent in his defensive duties. That may result in sacrificing some attacking verve but isn't that better than conceeding 4 goals and losing the game ?
Leeds won because they had the best 2 players on the pitch, in Kenny and McCormack, the rest of the players were evenly matched. i wasn't convinced Church's incident was a penalty at the time, I though it was more him falling over the defender, rather than the defender bringing him down (and yes there is a difference) but if we get to see a replay tonight, I might change my mind.
Posting without reading so : I thought the ref got the spot kicks right. Clumsy challenge by Harriott whilst Church tripped over his own feet. Leeds scored from every effort on target. Kenny made two top class saves whilst Hamer was at fault for their third and didn't look too well positioned for the fourth. Cousins continues to impress and even if he does make an error he doesn't let his head drop or let him stop from playing a difficult pass the next time. Thought Morro could have easily seen red, as could Kenny for his flapping of the ref booking him. I couldn't understand that once Kermy came on he was either wide of the box or coming deep when he should have been in the box and us lumping every ball in his direction. I wouldn't normally advocate that but it wasn't a pitch to play football on. Thought Leeds adapted better to the conditions. I was happy with the team picked, going with two wide players, but it just wasn't to be our day.
Why was Harriots played on the right and Stewart on the left ? It just didn't work. Wrong footed players on opposite sides only works in limited situations. Square pegs in square holes, it should be. Stewart scored coming in from the right on his right side but blazed at least 4 rubbish crosses into the stands from the left. Harriots was caught out on the right for the Leeds non penalty.
We miss Solly at right back. Get fit /well soon ! The team needs you. (Particularly when playing a flat back 4).
Leeds fans were in good voice but their team is anti football, diving, time wasting, referee playing rubbish. Kenny booked for time wasting after 37 mins, I ask you, constantly in the refs ear. I have time for Leeds fans, mostly decent the ones I have met, but that team was poor (apart from the individual quality of McCormack, Blackstock and Kenny).
I don't think the state of the pitch helped the passing game, we were trying to play.
I know Reams has a very single minded campaign against Powell on ITV but in my opinion, any change in manager would be very short sighted (to save posting on ITV). I question the tactics today, but I have faith that CP will get the balance right with the players at his disposal. The spirit of the team will see us through.
Having watched the replay of the 3rd and 4th goals I'm disappointed with both - Hamer and Jackson look all at sea for the 3rd and Hamer should have done better with the 4th. Hard to tell if the penalty should have been given....
The half time whistle came five minutes too early for us, we were on a roll at the time. We seemed to lose shape when we started making subs, and fizzled out completely in the last 20 minutes.
All in all we gave it a good shot, but the afternoon underlined once again the difference it makes having someone who can hit the onion bag.
I enjoyed the game but in disbelief at Kenny's save and Mcormacks goals. He had the game of his life and it stuffed us today.Thought Harriet played quite well apart from giving away the penalty, and it definitely was a soft penalty. Dervite was very poor today but all the team played with spirit. We have played worse and won.
Leeds done a proffessional job on us, next time we go 1-0 up away i want us to roll around, time waste, feign injury, dive in the box. Not pretty but effective ...just ask Leeds
First half was the strongest Charlton display I have seen at home in 3-4 seasons. Controlled midfield, imaginative passing and hard work on a very challenging surface. With Fuller or Obika we would have been 3-1 up at the break. If we keep playing like that we don't need to worry about relegation and if we had a top class striker we could be aiming at the play-offs rather than aspiring to mid-table obscurity.
Second half the ref played a blinder and scored a hat-trick. The penalty was soft, the first free kick was a non-event and the second free kick questionable. Mr Keith Stroud should stick to schoolboy football as he could not control an adult profesisional match, based on that woeful performance.
Paddy Kenny made a world class save in both halves. Sadly, Hamer (though a good keeper) wimps out at crucial moments in a congested penalty area.
Overall that is the best we have payed all season but thanks to Mr Kenny and Mr Stroud we lost 4-2.
Given that it was an exciting and passionate game with a poor ref, I thought our support was very lacklustre today.
If you weren't there today, don't panic. The better side lost.
I was sitting next to two Spurs fans from Norway who decided on a whim to catch our game today before the Spurs game tomorrow. At half time one of them asked me "Is it always so intense here?". They thought it was an enjoyable game which should have been won by Charlton.
As I walked out an old boy rushed past me muttering "F**king Hamer" I can't agree - how many hours was it since he'd last conceded a goal? Must have been close to 8. And people want him dropped - seriously?
Bringing on Yann made the team worse, I'm sorry to say. And I hope the only reason for making the two late subs was to rest the players who came off. Expecting anyone to come onto that pitch, in those conditions and change things round with 8 minutes on the clock is asking too much.
Well, those moaning about the lack of goals and entertainment at The Valley, got exactly that. Careful what you ask for.
CP might have preferred a clean sheet and a point perhaps?
I'm sure he would have done. But I enjoyed the game enormously and thought we played really well. We would have deserved at least a point if not all three, but for the brilliance of McCormack. Finishing like that deserves to clinch the game.
For me it was the second really entertaining game at the Valley in succession, because it wasn't really that different from the excellent Wigan game - except for the small matter of six goals!
We might have had more shots, played better etc but they scored more goals. End of
Very frustrating but as Oggy said oh for one of those "boring, negative" displays when we don't concede.
We looked like the team from the start of the season making and being punished for them.
Don't blame the ref either. Clear pen to them and he booked them for timewasting. They are a snidy dirty side with class keeper and striker.
When Harriot and Stewart switched back to their natural sides they and we looked much better so why move them back at the start of the 2nd half.
Kermo looked a shadow of himself.
People slag off Pritchard and he has his faults but we missed him today.
So just to clarify then the best team always score more goals. Thought they were the winners.
Surely depends on your interpretation of football, I know we are not allowed to have a differing opinion to you but I thought we were the better team for most of the game today, some terrible ref decisions & a couple of poor mistakes at the back did not make us the worst team today end of!
No need to come out with personal crap about not being allowed an opinion different from mine. Just a pointless and totally false statement as you just proved.
The aim of the game is to score more than the other side. Leeds did that better than us today. Despite what SKY and the BBC might want people to think about possession and shots only GOALS count.
We did play some good stuff but they had a better keeper and Blackstock and McCormack were better strikers than we had. So they won. Just as when we go away, soak up pressure and win 1 - 0. We're not lucky, we deserve those wins because we scored more goals and that made us the better side.
Comments
The other significant factor, as has been said, is the difference between the two keepers: Hamer flapped and let in 2 soft goals, whereas Kenny made 2 great saves. Never been into Hamer bashing but he is not helping the back 4 and does not instil confidence at corners or free kicks.
Apart from his goal, Stewart was invisible and afraid to stand up to their physical approach - wish Chris would have replaced him not Harriot. Wilson had a poor game also.
Church, Morro, Jacko, Wiggy all worked their socks off as ever. But... roll on the next game and the next win.
Was initially relieved I missed the Leeds game as from looking at the score line it sounded like we'd had a horror show. However after speaking to people it seems that Leeds had the all luck today.
Didn't think SCP would unleash The Beast today and agree that it didn't really work- 2 more weeks and hopefully he'll be the reason Green is picking the ball out of his net...more than once.
A fit Woody would have enhanced our defence & we really don't "do" soggy pitches, do we.
A draw , if not a jammy 3-2 win would have been fair IMHO but McC was something special.....shame.
Unlike SG, I'm not exactly hacked off but disappointed in the final score which flattered time wasting, gobby, dirty Leeds.
But we did show the home crowd glimpses of the decent passing football we've seen away from home recently and there are a lot of positives to build on ...when there is a level(dry) playing field....
At 2-2 we are the likely winners, then the Referee is conned yet again into giving two soft free kicks and we defended poorly at the second free kick.
The introduction of Kermorgant failed. We lapsed into long hopeful balls against three tall centre backs. But the manager had to do something to change the pattern.
Apart from the excellence of McCormack, Leeds were a cynical team , but it was ever thus. Where before it was Dirty Leeds, it's now Diving/ Time-wasting Leeds. Disappointed in Brian McDermott, who was brought up at Arsenal with the likes of Brady & Rix. He's betraying his roots with that performance. However, Don Revie would be proud. I wouldn't like to watch that nonsense every week.
For the 3rd Leeds goal I thought it looked like Hamer thought Jacko was gonna deal with it. One of them got it wrong and at the time I thought it was JJ, but bow to others who believe Hamer was at fault. Do feel for Hamer though. Seems to get a lot of stick, some a bit OTT. For instance, granted his kicking today was not as good as other games, but it looked no worse than Kenny's.
Good game to watch, but very frustrating and unfair result.
Obviously difficult conditions but I thought our midfield were again very good today and Wiggins my MOM.
Who knows what Hamer was dreaming about for the third goal, I will never be a fan but I think it was just destined to be one of those days
Horrible side and particularly Michael Brown, we had a bit of 'banter' just after he tried to get Morro sent off, good job I don't play I would just want to break his legs
Hope we get behind the side at QPR better than we did today
That is not the reason why we lost. Charlton lost due to tactical error and to the better individual quality of McCormack, Blackstock and Kenny. Leeds won because they took the opportunities that fell their way. They had better attacking quality. Blackstock did some decent hold up play that contributed to the first goal. Paddy Kenny made 2 excellent saves.
For Charlton, we created numerous promising positions but did not have enough quality in the final third. We also had a keeper who failed to manage his own six yard area.
Charlton had two attacking wingers on the pitch who left the full backs, exposed. This was not helped by Wilson constantly charging up the pitch. If that happens then someone has to fill the gap left and this did not happen consistently. With hindsight, given McCormack's individual quality, Pritchard on his case would have prevented Leeds scoring 4 goals.
I know some have reservations about Pritchard but he does help protect the defence and solidify the midfield. Pritchard is more diligent in his defensive duties. That may result in sacrificing some attacking verve but isn't that better than conceeding 4 goals and losing the game ?
We were nowhere near that good/unlucky today
We miss Solly at right back. Get fit /well soon ! The team needs you. (Particularly when playing a flat back 4).
Leeds fans were in good voice but their team is anti football, diving, time wasting, referee playing rubbish. Kenny booked for time wasting after 37 mins, I ask you, constantly in the refs ear. I have time for Leeds fans, mostly decent the ones I have met, but that team was poor (apart from the individual quality of McCormack, Blackstock and Kenny).
I don't think the state of the pitch helped the passing game, we were trying to play.
I know Reams has a very single minded campaign against Powell on ITV but in my opinion, any change in manager would be very short sighted (to save posting on ITV). I question the tactics today, but I have faith that CP will get the balance right with the players at his disposal. The spirit of the team will see us through.
All in all we gave it a good shot, but the afternoon underlined once again the difference it makes having someone who can hit the onion bag.
First half was the strongest Charlton display I have seen at home in 3-4 seasons. Controlled midfield, imaginative passing and hard work on a very challenging surface. With Fuller or Obika we would have been 3-1 up at the break. If we keep playing like that we don't need to worry about relegation and if we had a top class striker we could be aiming at the play-offs rather than aspiring to mid-table obscurity.
Second half the ref played a blinder and scored a hat-trick. The penalty was soft, the first free kick was a non-event and the second free kick questionable. Mr Keith Stroud should stick to schoolboy football as he could not control an adult profesisional match, based on that woeful performance.
Paddy Kenny made a world class save in both halves. Sadly, Hamer (though a good keeper) wimps out at crucial moments in a congested penalty area.
Overall that is the best we have payed all season but thanks to Mr Kenny and Mr Stroud we lost 4-2.
Given that it was an exciting and passionate game with a poor ref, I thought our support was very lacklustre today.
If you weren't there today, don't panic. The better side lost.
As I walked out an old boy rushed past me muttering "F**king Hamer" I can't agree - how many hours was it since he'd last conceded a goal? Must have been close to 8. And people want him dropped - seriously?
Bringing on Yann made the team worse, I'm sorry to say. And I hope the only reason for making the two late subs was to rest the players who came off. Expecting anyone to come onto that pitch, in those conditions and change things round with 8 minutes on the clock is asking too much.
For me it was the second really entertaining game at the Valley in succession, because it wasn't really that different from the excellent Wigan game - except for the small matter of six goals!
Don't you just hate Leeds?
The aim of the game is to score more than the other side. Leeds did that better than us today. Despite what SKY and the BBC might want people to think about possession and shots only GOALS count.
We did play some good stuff but they had a better keeper and Blackstock and McCormack were better strikers than we had. So they won. Just as when we go away, soak up pressure and win 1 - 0. We're not lucky, we deserve those wins because we scored more goals and that made us the better side.