Isn't it simply in many cases the pubs just don't get used enough to make it worthwhile to run them. Long gone are the days when most blokes popped in for a couple of pints whilst the little lady got the brats to bed and started dinner. Even the 'youth' don't frequent like we once did, it all seems to be pre drinks and then somewhere cheap!
I still can't believe someone bought the baring hotel in Grove Park to run as a pub again, place needs shed loads spent on it and apparently cost close to £800k to buy, difficult to see anyone getting a return there on their investment.
Was always a shyte pub……I too will be surprised if it becomes much of a success…..no parking if my memory serves me right? Could maybe attract rail passengers after work on their way home for a pint or two…..as The Lord Northbrook at Lee has done.
How long has there been a nightclub at that venue? I first went 40yrs ago when it was Flicks. Very sad.
Same, well about 37 years ago.
Local clubs just don't seem to attract enough people these days, add to that the general culture now of 'pre-drinking' and takings are massively down I suspect.
Much like the local boozer, clubs needs to evolve to survive and stay relevant. Gone are the days of the local boozer surviving in the week by tradesmen and the odd person having a 'swift half' on the way home. Same for clubs. I'd have thought a local venue which has some club nights, some live bands etc would maybe be more likely to survive.
Always be Flicks for me - many a Thursday or Saturday night in there back in the day when I could be out extremely late and still be able to go to work or play football next morning
Shouldnt these most recent comments be on the "nightclubs" thread, leaving those of us who like a pint of mild in an old mans pub whilst reading the paper in peace?
Apologies if this has been posted before, but from the SE London CAMRA Newsletter today:
The White Swan, Charlton closed since 2020, has now gone to Planning Inspectorate appeal for conversion to housing on upper floors and conversion to a non pub retail use on the ground floor, possibly a supermarket convenience store.
The Ravensbourne Arms, Lewisham closed since 2016, has a recently raised live planning application to convert the ground and basement floors to residential use.
and both the branch and individual members of the public may send in objections and letters of support to Lewisham Council. You can guess what the branch will be doing as we do not want to lose yet another pub that, until Antic closed it, was a very popular cask ale and music venue.
Isn't at least part of the reason many pubs have shut is because they simply aren't really viable anymore, drinking habits have changed and will continue to. A bit like a lot of hotels at seaside towns, they just don't make enough for someone to earn a living and be able to keep everything maintained and it becomes a viscous downward spiral.
The one I'm finding odd but time will tell about the true plans for it, the Baring Hall in Grove Park, it's likely a £2m project to get it back into a working public house (currently spending £10's of £1,000's removing squatters), yet I don't see how it's even remotely viable as a pub business. Hasn't been for decades, let alone recoup any outlay/maintain finance.
It was the first pub I ever went in as an under age drinker and more poignantly the first pub step I sat on as a kid after watching my dad play Sunday morning football at Mottingham playing fields ( plied with the apocryphal bottle of cantrell and cochrane lemonade and a straw.
It's viability been destroyed by the internal combustion engine not to mention drinking habits and a massive change in the local demographic. Good luck to anyone who thinks they can make it work..its a fantastic old building ( like a lot of old pubs)
I'd urge anyone to look at old pictures of it on the net ( pre Downham estate) .
It was the first pub I ever went in as an under age drinker and more poignantly the first pub step I sat on as a kid after watching my dad play Sunday morning football at Mottingham playing fields ( plied with the apocryphal bottle of cantrell and cochrane lemonade and a straw.
It's viability been destroyed by the internal combustion engine not to mention drinking habits and a massive change in the local demographic. Good luck to anyone who thinks they can make it work..its a fantastic old building ( like a lot of old pubs)
I'd urge anyone to look at old pictures of it on the net ( pre Downham estate) .
Agree about the building, it's actually listed now which adds it's own complexities.
But I just don't see it getting the footfall and spend for a pup that will cost £2m to get up and running. But a local publican has bought it, so he must know something no one else does. I knew a guy who looked at it 18 months or so ago who said it was so far off of being viable it was the quickest decision he'd ever made.
I do wonder how pubs like the rose in charlton stay open, can only assume its due to the football crowd but notice as season progresses and we are doing worse so does the crowd.
The one I'm finding odd but time will tell about the true plans for it, the Baring Hall in Grove Park, it's likely a £2m project to get it back into a working public house (currently spending £10's of £1,000's removing squatters), yet I don't see how it's even remotely viable as a pub business. Hasn't been for decades, let alone recoup any outlay/maintain finance.
I'm amazed as well. I can't believe it can possibly be viable. If it's cheap it will have a smallish number of Spoons type customers. If it's expensive and aimed more at the foodies, I just can't see it attracting the custom.
I do wonder how pubs like the rose in charlton stay open, can only assume its due to the football crowd but notice as season progresses and we are doing worse so does the crowd.
The Rose has it own set of locals that live in the nearby streets of Charlton that probably avoid the match day crowd.
I do wonder how pubs like the rose in charlton stay open, can only assume its due to the football crowd but notice as season progresses and we are doing worse so does the crowd.
The Rose has it own set of locals that live in the nearby streets of Charlton that probably avoid the match day crowd.
Fair enough. Admittedly never been there on a non-match day.
Comments
A major nightclub chain is shutting down 17 of its venues with the loss of about 470 jobs.
Rekom UK, which owns the Pryzm and Atik brands, said its venues had suffered as the cost-of-living crisis hit younger people's pockets.
Pryzm clubs in Birmingham, Leeds, Nottingham, Portsmouth, Plymouth and Watford are to close immediately.
Atik clubs in Dartford, Romford, Windsor and Wrexham are also among those shutting, it said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-68184713
I first went 40yrs ago when it was Flicks.
Very sad.
RIP Zens :-)
Local clubs just don't seem to attract enough people these days, add to that the general culture now of 'pre-drinking' and takings are massively down I suspect.
Much like the local boozer, clubs needs to evolve to survive and stay relevant. Gone are the days of the local boozer surviving in the week by tradesmen and the odd person having a 'swift half' on the way home. Same for clubs. I'd have thought a local venue which has some club nights, some live bands etc would maybe be more likely to survive.
😁
The White Swan, Charlton closed since 2020, has now gone to Planning Inspectorate appeal for conversion to housing on upper floors and conversion to a non pub retail use on the ground floor, possibly a supermarket convenience store.
The Ravensbourne Arms, Lewisham closed since 2016, has a recently raised live planning application to convert the ground and basement floors to residential use.
The full application may be viewed here
DC/24/134812 | Alterations and conversion of the existing public house into 4 residential flats (Use Class C3) at Ravensbourne Arms, 323 Lewisham High Street SE13. | RAVENSBOURNE ARMS, 323 LEWISHAM HIGH STREET, LONDON, SE13 6JZ
and both the branch and individual members of the public may send in objections and letters of support to Lewisham Council. You can guess what the branch will be doing as we do not want to lose yet another pub that, until Antic closed it, was a very popular cask ale and music venue.
The one I'm finding odd but time will tell about the true plans for it, the Baring Hall in Grove Park, it's likely a £2m project to get it back into a working public house (currently spending £10's of £1,000's removing squatters), yet I don't see how it's even remotely viable as a pub business. Hasn't been for decades, let alone recoup any outlay/maintain finance.
It was the first pub I ever went in as an under age drinker and more poignantly the first pub step I sat on as a kid after watching my dad play Sunday morning football at Mottingham playing fields ( plied with the apocryphal bottle of cantrell and cochrane lemonade and a straw.
It's viability been destroyed by the internal combustion engine not to mention drinking habits and a massive change in the local demographic. Good luck to anyone who thinks they can make it work..its a fantastic old building ( like a lot of old pubs)
I'd urge anyone to look at old pictures of it on the net ( pre Downham estate) .
But I just don't see it getting the footfall and spend for a pup that will cost £2m to get up and running. But a local publican has bought it, so he must know something no one else does. I knew a guy who looked at it 18 months or so ago who said it was so far off of being viable it was the quickest decision he'd ever made.
I can't believe it can possibly be viable.
If it's cheap it will have a smallish number of Spoons type customers.
If it's expensive and aimed more at the foodies, I just can't see it attracting the custom.
Application gone in for a micropub on Marechal Niel Parade on Main Road, In between the Newsagent’s / Offy and the Cafe
See you there!
PS. Looks absolutely tiny!