Pubs, and the demise of.

Oggy Red

Yes, gets my goat when you order a basic no frills something to eat in the bar, surrounded by drinkers - and the fuckers rip you off with a hefty service charge.

That's no restaurant. It's a pub bar. You're eating in a drinking area, for God's sake!

InspectorSands

guinnessaddick said:

fenlandaddick said:

InspectorSands said:

Rufus_Ambition said:

Anyone know what’s happening with the Antigallican? When it got planning permission to turn it into an HMO, they said that there would be a bar on the ground floor once complete.

Tbf it looks smart now. Apparently they applied for a licence in March, but I’ve looked through the windows a few times recently and the “bar” area looks tiny and I can’t believe it will ever open as a pub again.

(Apologies if this has been mentioned already!)

It got a licence, pretty much because it's stipulated in the planning permission that the space must remain a public house. However, I guess there's nothing stopping it remaining a *closed* public house.

However, one stipulation in the licence is that it must remain closed whenever Charlton are at home.

@InspectorSands Excuse my ignorance, but why would one want a pub to close when the football is on. Surely that is prime time to make some cash for the pub. Is there history there? Genuinely interested. I last lived in Woolwich in the 90s so out of touch will local goings on.

Probably OB don’t want it as the away pub.

Probably this. It's hard to tell because this one seems to have been decided behind closed doors by council officers rather than heard in public by councillors - I guess nobody complained so it was easy to rubber-stamp because there was previously a pub there. The place is a 60-room hotel now so it could end up being a private bar for that, in theory.

I guess it suits both a landowner who's not serious about turning it into a pub, but has to go through the motions, and a police force that can't be arsed to do its job.

iaitch

Redskin said:

InspectorSands said:

The Vanbrugh in Greenwich is back as... the Duke of Greenwich 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CunIU8DsMEr/?hl=es

Went here with my brother and Fireplace Max last week.
We each bought a round  - beers only.
We shared a barbecued 'Beer Can Chicken' and a plate of hummus.
Bill: £92
There was a 12.5% service charge...
You're not a restaurant and unfortunately, you're not much of a pub either. And neither are you in North London or West Greenwich where you might get away with that sort of thing.
Shame, as I had high hopes, this being my local.
The Dupe of Greenwich, more like.

Judging by that the pub won't be around too long.

InspectorSands

iaitch said:

Why is it struggling and the Bugle Horn is still going? Or is the Bugle just about surviving? I don't use these pubs by the way.

Extremely high rent demands, basically. I'd imagine the Bugle is just about surviving. There'd be some potential if the rent demands weren't so ludicrous - Geoff had hit on something by turning into a mini-Pelton - but Mendoza simply aren't interested in owning pubs because they don't make huge amounts of money.

I think a lot of people forget that Charlton isn't as well off an area as some of its residents think, and while the Village has lots of nice green space nearby, that nice green space doesn't come into the pub and spend money. 

iaitch

Thanks

Redskin

iaitch said:

Redskin said:

InspectorSands said:

The Vanbrugh in Greenwich is back as... the Duke of Greenwich 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CunIU8DsMEr/?hl=es

Went here with my brother and Fireplace Max last week.
We each bought a round  - beers only.
We shared a barbecued 'Beer Can Chicken' and a plate of hummus.
Bill: £92
There was a 12.5% service charge...
You're not a restaurant and unfortunately, you're not much of a pub either. And neither are you in North London or West Greenwich where you might get away with that sort of thing.
Shame, as I had high hopes, this being my local.
The Dupe of Greenwich, more like.

Judging by that the pub won't be around too long.

I walked past there at lunchtime yesterday and there were no more than 12 or so people in the garden on a sunny day. Under the previous landlady, the garden would have been full to bursting.
They'll certainly need a major rethink, or as you say, they'll die a death.

InspectorSands

iaitch said:

InspectorSands said:

A depressingly predictable development with the Swan (suspect this will get thrown out and it'll turn into another battle that'll take years)

https://greenwichwire.co.uk/2023/08/14/charltons-white-swan-pub-could-become-a-tesco-store-if-offshore-developer-has-its-way/

You have a Co-op and a Costcutter if it's still open, across the road from the White Swan, surely too much retail in a short space?

A Co-op that's got a serious shoplifting problem as well. Costcutter is an international food store now which seems to be doing okay - the whole block was redone with flats above during the pandemic. 

InspectorSands

Redskin said:

iaitch said:

Redskin said:

InspectorSands said:

The Vanbrugh in Greenwich is back as... the Duke of Greenwich 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CunIU8DsMEr/?hl=es

Went here with my brother and Fireplace Max last week.
We each bought a round  - beers only.
We shared a barbecued 'Beer Can Chicken' and a plate of hummus.
Bill: £92
There was a 12.5% service charge...
You're not a restaurant and unfortunately, you're not much of a pub either. And neither are you in North London or West Greenwich where you might get away with that sort of thing.
Shame, as I had high hopes, this being my local.
The Dupe of Greenwich, more like.

Judging by that the pub won't be around too long.

I walked past there at lunchtime yesterday and there were no more than 12 or so people in the garden on a sunny day. Under the previous landlady, the garden would have been full to bursting.
They'll certainly need a major rethink, or as you say, they'll die a death.

Ultimately, it's the same offshore property owner here that's shafting the Swan. The rent on the Vanbrugh/Duke of Greenwich was set at £90,000/year. I suspect the new owners have overreached themselves and overestimated how much disposable income there is around that end of Greenwich, especially with the Crown having sewn up a lot of that crowd now.

InspectorSands

fenlandaddick said:

guinnessaddick said:

fenlandaddick said:

InspectorSands said:

Rufus_Ambition said:

Anyone know what’s happening with the Antigallican? When it got planning permission to turn it into an HMO, they said that there would be a bar on the ground floor once complete.

Tbf it looks smart now. Apparently they applied for a licence in March, but I’ve looked through the windows a few times recently and the “bar” area looks tiny and I can’t believe it will ever open as a pub again.

(Apologies if this has been mentioned already!)

It got a licence, pretty much because it's stipulated in the planning permission that the space must remain a public house. However, I guess there's nothing stopping it remaining a *closed* public house.

However, one stipulation in the licence is that it must remain closed whenever Charlton are at home.

@InspectorSands Excuse my ignorance, but why would one want a pub to close when the football is on. Surely that is prime time to make some cash for the pub. Is there history there? Genuinely interested. I last lived in Woolwich in the 90s so out of touch will local goings on.

Probably OB don’t want it as the away pub.

"Welcome to Charlton away fans. Thanks for travelling but good luck finding somewhere for a beer".

Or do they go somewhere else now? If not it means those punters are spending money outside of Charlton, and negating part of the reason for the club being there. (Helping other businesses make money). Gets right on my wick.

Almost like they want the places closed. /Rant over/

And I probably have the wrong end of the stick completely. 🙃

They go to the Angerstein at the bottom of Westcombe Hill now, very slightly outside Charlton.

Or they go into Greenwich, Spoons in Woolwich or drink around London Bridge, I expect. 

AFKABartram

InspectorSands said:

Redskin said:

iaitch said:

Redskin said:

InspectorSands said:

The Vanbrugh in Greenwich is back as... the Duke of Greenwich 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CunIU8DsMEr/?hl=es

Went here with my brother and Fireplace Max last week.
We each bought a round  - beers only.
We shared a barbecued 'Beer Can Chicken' and a plate of hummus.
Bill: £92
There was a 12.5% service charge...
You're not a restaurant and unfortunately, you're not much of a pub either. And neither are you in North London or West Greenwich where you might get away with that sort of thing.
Shame, as I had high hopes, this being my local.
The Dupe of Greenwich, more like.

Judging by that the pub won't be around too long.

I walked past there at lunchtime yesterday and there were no more than 12 or so people in the garden on a sunny day. Under the previous landlady, the garden would have been full to bursting.
They'll certainly need a major rethink, or as you say, they'll die a death.

Ultimately, it's the same offshore property owner here that's shafting the Swan. The rent on the Vanbrugh/Duke of Greenwich was set at £90,000/year. I suspect the new owners have overreached themselves and overestimated how much disposable income there is around that end of Greenwich, especially with the Crown having sewn up a lot of that crowd now.

Nearly two grand a week in rent before you’ve sold a pint. Blimey 

Croydon

InspectorSands said:

fenlandaddick said:

guinnessaddick said:

fenlandaddick said:

InspectorSands said:

Rufus_Ambition said:

Anyone know what’s happening with the Antigallican? When it got planning permission to turn it into an HMO, they said that there would be a bar on the ground floor once complete.

Tbf it looks smart now. Apparently they applied for a licence in March, but I’ve looked through the windows a few times recently and the “bar” area looks tiny and I can’t believe it will ever open as a pub again.

(Apologies if this has been mentioned already!)

It got a licence, pretty much because it's stipulated in the planning permission that the space must remain a public house. However, I guess there's nothing stopping it remaining a *closed* public house.

However, one stipulation in the licence is that it must remain closed whenever Charlton are at home.

@InspectorSands Excuse my ignorance, but why would one want a pub to close when the football is on. Surely that is prime time to make some cash for the pub. Is there history there? Genuinely interested. I last lived in Woolwich in the 90s so out of touch will local goings on.

Probably OB don’t want it as the away pub.

"Welcome to Charlton away fans. Thanks for travelling but good luck finding somewhere for a beer".

Or do they go somewhere else now? If not it means those punters are spending money outside of Charlton, and negating part of the reason for the club being there. (Helping other businesses make money). Gets right on my wick.

Almost like they want the places closed. /Rant over/

And I probably have the wrong end of the stick completely. 🙃

They go to the Antigallican at the bottom of Westcombe Hill now, very slightly outside Charlton.

Or they go into Greenwich, Spoons in Woolwich or drink around London Bridge, I expect. 

Angerstein you mean

Off_it

iaitch said:

Redskin said:

InspectorSands said:

The Vanbrugh in Greenwich is back as... the Duke of Greenwich 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CunIU8DsMEr/?hl=es

Went here with my brother and Fireplace Max last week.
We each bought a round  - beers only.
We shared a barbecued 'Beer Can Chicken' and a plate of hummus.
Bill: £92
There was a 12.5% service charge...
You're not a restaurant and unfortunately, you're not much of a pub either. And neither are you in North London or West Greenwich where you might get away with that sort of thing.
Shame, as I had high hopes, this being my local.
The Dupe of Greenwich, more like.

Judging by that the pub won't be around too long.

Just looked on their website. Dear oh dear. You might get away with that up in Borough Market or somewhere like that, but round there?!

Oh, and it's already shut Monday's and Tuesday's, which doesn't bode well.

InspectorSands

Croydon said:

InspectorSands said:

fenlandaddick said:

guinnessaddick said:

fenlandaddick said:

InspectorSands said:

Rufus_Ambition said:

Anyone know what’s happening with the Antigallican? When it got planning permission to turn it into an HMO, they said that there would be a bar on the ground floor once complete.

Tbf it looks smart now. Apparently they applied for a licence in March, but I’ve looked through the windows a few times recently and the “bar” area looks tiny and I can’t believe it will ever open as a pub again.

(Apologies if this has been mentioned already!)

It got a licence, pretty much because it's stipulated in the planning permission that the space must remain a public house. However, I guess there's nothing stopping it remaining a *closed* public house.

However, one stipulation in the licence is that it must remain closed whenever Charlton are at home.

@InspectorSands Excuse my ignorance, but why would one want a pub to close when the football is on. Surely that is prime time to make some cash for the pub. Is there history there? Genuinely interested. I last lived in Woolwich in the 90s so out of touch will local goings on.

Probably OB don’t want it as the away pub.

"Welcome to Charlton away fans. Thanks for travelling but good luck finding somewhere for a beer".

Or do they go somewhere else now? If not it means those punters are spending money outside of Charlton, and negating part of the reason for the club being there. (Helping other businesses make money). Gets right on my wick.

Almost like they want the places closed. /Rant over/

And I probably have the wrong end of the stick completely. 🙃

They go to the Antigallican at the bottom of Westcombe Hill now, very slightly outside Charlton.

Or they go into Greenwich, Spoons in Woolwich or drink around London Bridge, I expect. 

Angerstein you mean

ha, yes, I should know as I grew up pretty much opposite that place...

R0TW

Was you a junior fireman?

clive

https://greenwichwire.co.uk/2023/08/12/sun-in-the-sands-closes-after-green-light-given-for-flats-behind-landmark-pub/

Redskin

AFKABartram said:

InspectorSands said:

Redskin said:

iaitch said:

Redskin said:

InspectorSands said:

The Vanbrugh in Greenwich is back as... the Duke of Greenwich 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CunIU8DsMEr/?hl=es

Went here with my brother and Fireplace Max last week.
We each bought a round  - beers only.
We shared a barbecued 'Beer Can Chicken' and a plate of hummus.
Bill: £92
There was a 12.5% service charge...
You're not a restaurant and unfortunately, you're not much of a pub either. And neither are you in North London or West Greenwich where you might get away with that sort of thing.
Shame, as I had high hopes, this being my local.
The Dupe of Greenwich, more like.

Judging by that the pub won't be around too long.

I walked past there at lunchtime yesterday and there were no more than 12 or so people in the garden on a sunny day. Under the previous landlady, the garden would have been full to bursting.
They'll certainly need a major rethink, or as you say, they'll die a death.

Ultimately, it's the same offshore property owner here that's shafting the Swan. The rent on the Vanbrugh/Duke of Greenwich was set at £90,000/year. I suspect the new owners have overreached themselves and overestimated how much disposable income there is around that end of Greenwich, especially with the Crown having sewn up a lot of that crowd now.

Nearly two grand a week in rent before you’ve sold a pint. Blimey 

And they're only open five days a week...

clive

https://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/2023/08/22/mottingham-pub-opening-given-green-light/

Charlton_Charlie

Off_it said:

iaitch said:

Redskin said:

InspectorSands said:

The Vanbrugh in Greenwich is back as... the Duke of Greenwich 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CunIU8DsMEr/?hl=es

Went here with my brother and Fireplace Max last week.
We each bought a round  - beers only.
We shared a barbecued 'Beer Can Chicken' and a plate of hummus.
Bill: £92
There was a 12.5% service charge...
You're not a restaurant and unfortunately, you're not much of a pub either. And neither are you in North London or West Greenwich where you might get away with that sort of thing.
Shame, as I had high hopes, this being my local.
The Dupe of Greenwich, more like.

Judging by that the pub won't be around too long.

Just looked on their website. Dear oh dear. You might get away with that up in Borough Market or somewhere like that, but round there?!

Oh, and it's already shut Monday's and Tuesday's, which doesn't bode well.

My local too. I want to support it, as it's better open than closed...but also had 'a meal' in there and, while it was perfectly decent food, it didn't warrant the price. Once we'd ordered, my wife decided she wanted a side salad, so I went back to bar, looked at the menu and ordered something for £5.50...got rung up on the, til "that's £6.12 please"...I pointed out that that wasn't the price listed and was told that they'd added a service charge...for me walking to the bar and ordering something from the menu... AS said, I want to support it - and some of the beer is OK - but I won't be ordering food there again, nor will I be as frequent a visitor as I might have been.. Ale House and Crown it is...

swords_alive

Charlton_Charlie said:

Off_it said:

iaitch said:

Redskin said:

InspectorSands said:

The Vanbrugh in Greenwich is back as... the Duke of Greenwich 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CunIU8DsMEr/?hl=es

Went here with my brother and Fireplace Max last week.
We each bought a round  - beers only.
We shared a barbecued 'Beer Can Chicken' and a plate of hummus.
Bill: £92
There was a 12.5% service charge...
You're not a restaurant and unfortunately, you're not much of a pub either. And neither are you in North London or West Greenwich where you might get away with that sort of thing.
Shame, as I had high hopes, this being my local.
The Dupe of Greenwich, more like.

Judging by that the pub won't be around too long.

Just looked on their website. Dear oh dear. You might get away with that up in Borough Market or somewhere like that, but round there?!

Oh, and it's already shut Monday's and Tuesday's, which doesn't bode well.

My local too. I want to support it, as it's better open than closed...but also had 'a meal' in there and, while it was perfectly decent food, it didn't warrant the price. Once we'd ordered, my wife decided she wanted a side salad, so I went back to bar, looked at the menu and ordered something for £5.50...got rung up on the, til "that's £6.12 please"...I pointed out that that wasn't the price listed and was told that they'd added a service charge...for me walking to the bar and ordering something from the menu... AS said, I want to support it - and some of the beer is OK - but I won't be ordering food there again, nor will I be as frequent a visitor as I might have been.. Ale House and Crown it is...

Feel like Trading Standards should pull them up on that- needs to be reported first and then hope they're interested and resourced to follow up of course.  

Contact Trading Standards

Telephone: 020 8921 8223

Email: tradingstandards@royalgreenwich.gov.uk

Dansk_Red

I see that the redevelopment of the Victoria pub has finally started. Looks like they are keeping the original facade.

shirty5

Dansk_Red said:

I see that the redevelopment of the Victoria pub has finally started. Looks like they are keeping the original facade.

https://charltonchampion.co.uk/tag/victoria-pub/

mendonca

Shame it's going to be a nice looking Dominos.

clive

Off_it said:

Nothing dodgy about this. No Sir, nothing at all.

Two men have been arrested on suspicion of arson over a fire that tore through the Crooked House pub.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66608279

ElfsborgAddick

A rare find in Brazil, a proper boozer I can see myself using this a bit for the two months we're on the North East coast.

Off_it

You've a very strange barometer for what is a "Proper boozer"!

Off_it

THIS is a proper boozer!

Karim_myBagheri

"Proper boozer" a blokes garage with a fridge in it. 

stop_shouting

Off_it said:

THIS is a proper boozer!

Lose the cheap Verandahs and you’re on to something. 

ElfsborgAddick

Off_it said:

You've a very strange barometer for what is a "Proper boozer"!

Never been called a barometer before

Off_it

Quick pint anyone?