Can't understand why the topic is so heavily focused on finances - we offered him a contract for christ sake!!! Players who are in the reserves and unlikely to be given a starting place are unlikely to get a 2-3 year deal at this level, why can't people understand that? It sounds to me like it is a footballing based decision (on both sides) and thats it.
Evina is the sort of player that can be let go with no contract extension offered if we really were in a dire situation.
Could we have offered him a one year contract to get a development fee? Why do people get so touchy when it is mentioned that it could be a financial decision ?
Can't understand why the topic is so heavily focused on finances - we offered him a contract for christ sake!!! Players who are in the reserves and unlikely to be given a starting place are unlikely to get a 2-3 year deal at this level, why can't people understand that? It sounds to me like it is a footballing based decision (on both sides) and thats it.
Evina is the sort of player that can be let go with no contract extension offered if we really were in a dire situation.
Of course it's about finances. We have to make savings. We offered him a contract that suited our financial situation and he was disappointed. He has the right to look elsewhere.
Can't understand why the topic is so heavily focused on finances - we offered him a contract for christ sake!!! Players who are in the reserves and unlikely to be given a starting place are unlikely to get a 2-3 year deal at this level, why can't people understand that? It sounds to me like it is a footballing based decision (on both sides) and thats it.
Evina is the sort of player that can be let go with no contract extension offered if we really were in a dire situation.
Clearly, the most important element in the negotiation with Evina will have been Chris Powell's assessment of him as a player. In that sense, you're right, it's a footballing decision. However, you can't divorce the footballing and financial aspects of squad management. The two are inextricably linked; ultimately, there has to be a judgement around value for money.
I think that what we may be beginning to see here is a decline in the wages of many of the players at this level along with a shortening of typical contract lengths. That's not good news for the players obviously. Be interesting to see how this develops.
As I noted above, this tells us nothing, good or bad, about the Club's financial position, though in my view it's actually a positive because it demonstrates that the Club is acting thoughtfully.
Can't understand why the topic is so heavily focused on finances - we offered him a contract for christ sake!!! Players who are in the reserves and unlikely to be given a starting place are unlikely to get a 2-3 year deal at this level, why can't people understand that? It sounds to me like it is a footballing based decision (on both sides) and thats it.
Evina is the sort of player that can be let go with no contract extension offered if we really were in a dire situation.
Of course it's about finances. We have to make savings. We offered him a contract that suited our financial situation and he was disappointed. He has the right to look elsewhere.
Think it's a bit of both really. It's all about getting value for money. If you offer him say,a 3 year deal, there's a chance he might sit on his arse counting it for two of them and in the final year decide to pull his finger out to get offered a new deal at the end.One year keeps him on his toes and keeps him pushing for a first team spot increasing his chances of getting a new deal next summer. The financial rewards offered to Cedric Evina should not reflect the state of CAFC's finances in any way.
Now If it was offered to Wiggins on the other hand......
Can't understand why the topic is so heavily focused on finances - we offered him a contract for christ sake!!! Players who are in the reserves and unlikely to be given a starting place are unlikely to get a 2-3 year deal at this level, why can't people understand that? It sounds to me like it is a footballing based decision (on both sides) and thats it.
Evina is the sort of player that can be let go with no contract extension offered if we really were in a dire situation.
Of course it's about finances. We have to make savings. We offered him a contract that suited our financial situation and he was disappointed. He has the right to look elsewhere.
Think it's a bit of both really. It's all about getting value for money. If you offer him say,a 3 year deal, there's a chance he might sit on his arse counting it for two of them and in the final year decide to pull his finger out to get offered a new deal at the end.One year keeps him on his toes and keeps him pushing for a first team spot increasing his chances of getting a new deal next summer. The financial rewards offered to Cedric Evina should not reflect the state of CAFC's finances in any way.
Now If it was offered to Wiggins on the other hand......
The club has made a significant investment in the development squad, both in terms of signing players as well as promoting from our academy as well as recruiting staff to run it. It makes no sense to do this and not develop players for the first team. However Powell may not think these players are quite ready yet, but there must be a longer term plan to bring these players through either next season or the season after. As a consequence it makes no sense to offer 2 or 3 year deals to players who are not going to be first team regulars as this ties up a squad place and budget further down the line for players moving out of the development squad.
Devite recently signed a one year deal. He's older than Ceddy and probably has more confidence in establishing himself as a first team player here or maybe has woken up to the financial realities of being a championship squad player. Remember he was without a club for some time last summer and only signed with us after a trial.
There is also distinct contrast with the confidence shown by the manager in Dervite this season, there never seemed to be any hesitation in putting him in either at centre back or defensive midfield. Contrast this with Ceddy where the world and his wife got to play out of position at left back before he got into the side last season.
Both the establishment of development squad football and FFP has put real pressure on squad players, particularly in the championship. Unless you are an established first choice at this level then I think you are faced with a choice. Drop down a division and establish yourself as a first choice with a bigger league 1 club. This may give you the financial security of a two or three year contract (like we were dishing out two years ago). Otherwise accept a potentially nomadic existence of shorter term contracts in the championship, with the lack of security this presents and hope that you get a decent run in a side which means you catch the eye of a championship manager who will be prepared to offer you a longer term deal. At the same time you run the risk of hardly featuring (not even in the development squad) and could find yourself out of contract at the end of the season, with not much football on your CV and a spotty teenager from the development squad taking your place in the team you've just left.
I don't think Its a great time to be a journeyman footballer at the moment. We seem to forget that footballers are just like us (though younger and a lot fitter than me in my case!) with mortgages and young families. There is a lot of mental pressure on players regardless of what is going on with the club on the field that we just don't even consider. Thinking about this certainly makes me think differently about Hollands, with three young kids, out of contract next summer and not in our side.
All of this discussion is based on the assumption that Wiggins will be with us next season, but at the moment that's just an assumption too. I hope it's a valid one, but I expect we will end up with a loan signing or right back playing in this position at some stage next season and then we'll be in a better position to judge. You can't seriously rely on someone who hasn't made their debut as the first line of cover, in my view.
I like Evina and he came on in leaps and bounds once he was given a run in the team. I'm sorry if he's leaving and I expect Chris Powell is too. But a manager has to make difficult choices within the overall resource level and as long as he is the one making them then I'm not going to criticise. I have total faith in Chris, as a person and as a manager.
The story in the People was very much what I heard coming out of the club at senior levels at the end of the season, but that was four weeks ago. I didn't repeat it because there's really no point. People will believe what it suits them to believe.
Ultimately if Chris feels that he isn't being given sufficient resources to keep the team in the Championship then he has a decision to make, but unless he actually walks then we have to assume he thinks he has at least a fighting chance and that the choices are his. However, I don't think this will be the last discussion of this kind on here this summer.
We are seeing the players who will be going - the real sense of what to expect next season is when we see the players coming in. In reality, with talented youngsters coming through, I'd be reluctant to offer Ceddy more than a year if I was Sir Chris. Whatever the fionancial situation, we can't afford to put ourselves in a position where we are paying players who are strictly reserves. The jury must be out on Ceddy in relation to that.
Ceddy can take that one of two ways - 1) I haven't established myself but had a decent run in the side last season, I'll accept the deal and fight for a better one or 2) I have been loyal to the club, not banging down doors and did what was aknowledged to be a decent job when called on last season. I expected the club to reflect that with the deal ity offered me. He clearly has favoured the second option.
Solly was 2nd choice right back in League 1 with very little experience. If Fox hasn't got a realistic chance of stepping in the near future he shouldn't be at the club, he's 20 later on this year. He's only going to be able to prove himself here if he gets an opportunity.
Just to be clear, under FFP Charlton are well within the limits for next season at this point in time - at least £1.5M has dropped off of the wage bill in the last month. Add to that the fact that stadium depreciation (£1M) and the Academy (£?) do not figure then we are well within the £8M losses allowed.
Evina is a player I would have kept but if there are top youth players coming through then it makes sense he was only offered 1 year - especially when the loss limits come down in 2014/15 as Mundell alludes.
There is another side to this which is who will come in? Anyone who says nobody is going to be signed is either deluded or has another agenda... For the owners would not have pumped in £14M of loans to date over two seasons to then watch the whole thing fall over.
For the board or Chris Powell to consider a parting of the ways after two years of climbing back up the ladder with a brand new squad is madness - but then this is football!
Not too worried...sounds like we have potential backup in the younger players...and may delve in for an emergency loan if needed...at very worse we've got an Ex-England International leftback sitting on the bench!!
Just to be clear, under FFP Charlton are well within the limits for next season at this point in time - at least £1.5M has dropped off of the wage bill in the last month. Add to that the fact that stadium depreciation (£1M) and the Academy (£?) do not figure then we are well within the £8M losses allowed.
Evina is a player I would have kept but if there are top youth players coming through then it makes sense he was only offered 1 year - especially when the loss limits come down in 2014/15 as Mundell alludes.
There is another side to this which is who will come in? Anyone who says nobody is going to be signed is either deluded or has another agenda... For the owners would not have pumped in £14M of loans to date over two seasons to then watch the whole thing fall over.
For the board or Chris Powell to consider a parting of the ways after two years of climbing back up the ladder with a brand new squad is madness - but then this is football!
Of course we will sign players. It would be quite odd, though, if we allowed Evina to leave and then bought another left back as cover for Wiggins. Then again it would be quite odd for a promoted team to prioritise buying a reserve right back and a reserve goalkeeper, but we did. And the second signing still has to be paid for next month.
As was pointed out, Sir Chris also has the option of playing SOlly on the left and Wilson as right back in an emergency. I'm guessing we offered Evina a deal because he showed thi sseason that there is a chance he could become a useful left back - but that is a chance rather than a certainty and I doubt we will be deperate to sign a replacement.
Anyone know how much the Academy costs to run? I guess we are talking a substantial amount so if 1-2 players at least are not breaking through each season the benefits of running it have to be questioned.
I wish him well. I thought he was quite good, but not as good as Wiggins so wouldn't be first choice. He needs to go somewhere to play first team football.
I suspect he may be disapointed with the club for offering him a contract - which hinders him finding a club, seeing as Waggy was allowed to go on a genuine free.
I suspect he may be disappointed with the club for offering him a contract - which hinders him finding a club, seeing as Waggy was allowed to go on a genuine free.
maybe. His twitter last week had the below comments.
Fuming Ceddy this morning.
Am I a dickhead, apparently so yes!
Now the above could be anything but i would think due to the timing it has something to do with the contract discussions.
I suspect he may be disappointed with the club for offering him a contract - which hinders him finding a club, seeing as Waggy was allowed to go on a genuine free.
maybe. His twitter last week had the below comments.
Fuming Ceddy this morning.
Am I a dickhead, apparently so yes!
Now the above could be anything but i would think due to the timing it has something to do with the contract discussions.
Yeah, I saw that - and noticed it coincided with him changing his profile to "Professional Footballer"; when it had once been "Professional Footballer at Charlton Athletic; Ex Oldham and Arsenal.". It was also timed at the same time that he set his twitter feed to private - although that's presumably for the morons that gave him grief when he said Palace deserved their win more than Watford.
I like the guy, I thought he was pretty consistent towards the end of his run at LB - and felt pretty confident with him in that position. He was never going to force Wiggins out, but he was more than comfortable at this level. He also dealt with Zaha quite well at Palace IIRC; Zaha had no luck against Solly (Which was expected) - then swapped over and had very little luck against Evina.
I wish him the best and think it's a great shame. To be honest, I think he's a loss as big as Haynes - he was reliable and there when we needed him, and he seemed to have a good bit of banter with the others. Before we introduced Harriott in to the team I was wishing Evina was given a go at LM; I rated him more than Kerkar - and to be quite honest I thought Kerkar was pretty good before Millwall (A).
At the same time, he's a young man that should be enjoying football week-in week-out at this stage of his career; hopefully he'll get that soon. I feel sorry for the fact we put Solly at LB then tried loanees before we eventually put him out on the pitch, that alone IMO gives him enough of a right to want out.
By the sounds of it he wanted 2 years and promises he'd get more first team action, neither of which we could give.
Sounds like he's having a bit of a ceddy
Meh, you can kinda understand where he's coming from though... but no, that was never going to happen.
2 Years would've been fair I reckon, but there was no way anyone could meaningfully promise that he'd get more game time. Makes you wonder what he was expecting really.. It's always been pretty clear (from the outside at least) that your earn your name on the teamsheet with Powell, you don't just ask.
Solly was 2nd choice right back in League 1 with very little experience. If Fox hasn't got a realistic chance of stepping in the near future he shouldn't be at the club, he's 20 later on this year. He's only going to be able to prove himself here if he gets an opportunity.
Very true, and Jenks had made a handful of League One appearances before finding himself playing in the Champions League a season later. It all depends on the physical/emotional development of the players, which we're not really in a position to judge.
Comments
I think that what we may be beginning to see here is a decline in the wages of many of the players at this level along with a shortening of typical contract lengths. That's not good news for the players obviously. Be interesting to see how this develops.
As I noted above, this tells us nothing, good or bad, about the Club's financial position, though in my view it's actually a positive because it demonstrates that the Club is acting thoughtfully.
Now If it was offered to Wiggins on the other hand......
The club has made a significant investment in the development squad, both in terms of signing players as well as promoting from our academy as well as recruiting staff to run it. It makes no sense to do this and not develop players for the first team. However Powell may not think these players are quite ready yet, but there must be a longer term plan to bring these players through either next season or the season after. As a consequence it makes no sense to offer 2 or 3 year deals to players who are not going to be first team regulars as this ties up a squad place and budget further down the line for players moving out of the development squad.
Devite recently signed a one year deal. He's older than Ceddy and probably has more confidence in establishing himself as a first team player here or maybe has woken up to the financial realities of being a championship squad player. Remember he was without a club for some time last summer and only signed with us after a trial.
There is also distinct contrast with the confidence shown by the manager in Dervite this season, there never seemed to be any hesitation in putting him in either at centre back or defensive midfield. Contrast this with Ceddy where the world and his wife got to play out of position at left back before he got into the side last season.
Both the establishment of development squad football and FFP has put real pressure on squad players, particularly in the championship. Unless you are an established first choice at this level then I think you are faced with a choice. Drop down a division and establish yourself as a first choice with a bigger league 1 club. This may give you the financial security of a two or three year contract (like we were dishing out two years ago). Otherwise accept a potentially nomadic existence of shorter term contracts in the championship, with the lack of security this presents and hope that you get a decent run in a side which means you catch the eye of a championship manager who will be prepared to offer you a longer term deal. At the same time you run the risk of hardly featuring (not even in the development squad) and could find yourself out of contract at the end of the season, with not much football on your CV and a spotty teenager from the development squad taking your place in the team you've just left.
I don't think Its a great time to be a journeyman footballer at the moment. We seem to forget that footballers are just like us (though younger and a lot fitter than me in my case!) with mortgages and young families. There is a lot of mental pressure on players regardless of what is going on with the club on the field that we just don't even consider. Thinking about this certainly makes me think differently about Hollands, with three young kids, out of contract next summer and not in our side.
I like Evina and he came on in leaps and bounds once he was given a run in the team. I'm sorry if he's leaving and I expect Chris Powell is too. But a manager has to make difficult choices within the overall resource level and as long as he is the one making them then I'm not going to criticise. I have total faith in Chris, as a person and as a manager.
The story in the People was very much what I heard coming out of the club at senior levels at the end of the season, but that was four weeks ago. I didn't repeat it because there's really no point. People will believe what it suits them to believe.
Ultimately if Chris feels that he isn't being given sufficient resources to keep the team in the Championship then he has a decision to make, but unless he actually walks then we have to assume he thinks he has at least a fighting chance and that the choices are his. However, I don't think this will be the last discussion of this kind on here this summer.
Ceddy can take that one of two ways - 1) I haven't established myself but had a decent run in the side last season, I'll accept the deal and fight for a better one or 2) I have been loyal to the club, not banging down doors and did what was aknowledged to be a decent job when called on last season. I expected the club to reflect that with the deal ity offered me. He clearly has favoured the second option.
Evina is a player I would have kept but if there are top youth players coming through then it makes sense he was only offered 1 year - especially when the loss limits come down in 2014/15 as Mundell alludes.
There is another side to this which is who will come in? Anyone who says nobody is going to be signed is either deluded or has another agenda... For the owners would not have pumped in £14M of loans to date over two seasons to then watch the whole thing fall over.
For the board or Chris Powell to consider a parting of the ways after two years of climbing back up the ladder with a brand new squad is madness - but then this is football!
Fuming Ceddy this morning.
Am I a dickhead, apparently so yes!
Now the above could be anything but i would think due to the timing it has something to do with the contract discussions.
I like the guy, I thought he was pretty consistent towards the end of his run at LB - and felt pretty confident with him in that position. He was never going to force Wiggins out, but he was more than comfortable at this level. He also dealt with Zaha quite well at Palace IIRC; Zaha had no luck against Solly (Which was expected) - then swapped over and had very little luck against Evina.
I wish him the best and think it's a great shame. To be honest, I think he's a loss as big as Haynes - he was reliable and there when we needed him, and he seemed to have a good bit of banter with the others. Before we introduced Harriott in to the team I was wishing Evina was given a go at LM; I rated him more than Kerkar - and to be quite honest I thought Kerkar was pretty good before Millwall (A).
At the same time, he's a young man that should be enjoying football week-in week-out at this stage of his career; hopefully he'll get that soon. I feel sorry for the fact we put Solly at LB then tried loanees before we eventually put him out on the pitch, that alone IMO gives him enough of a right to want out.
Sounds like he's having a bit of a ceddy
2 Years would've been fair I reckon, but there was no way anyone could meaningfully promise that he'd get more game time. Makes you wonder what he was expecting really.. It's always been pretty clear (from the outside at least) that your earn your name on the teamsheet with Powell, you don't just ask.