- Here's why people think he's our best player (myself included):
- People demanding him to carry the ball / push forward / bust into box, HE'S NOT THAT KIND OF PLAYER. Not every centre mid has to be like Scott Parker when he was with us or Nicky Bailey.
- What does he offer? POSSESSION. With Stephens sitting in midfield we at least kept the ball in Boro's half for a large amount of time in the second half. Yes he was sloppy today - but he still kept showing for it and was consistently brave enough to look for the pass unlike every other player in our team who just hoofed or clipped it forward.
- Someone asked about does he get any assists > his pass to Fuller v Watford was perfect and was one of the few goals we've scored this season that hasn't come from a set play / long ball.
- BUT. And there's a big but, to get the best out of a talent like this we need energy alongside him and creativity in front of him. Hence why moving Pritchard away from the centre today was a huge mistake. How often has we seen those two together in the same midfield? I can't remember a single one. To me, those two together seems like a perfect fit...
We still haven't scored a second half goal at home this season - infact we haven't scored any goals after the 35th minute.
Given the natural inclination for home teams to attack in the second half (usually shooting towards their favoured end ie. Covered End), this is turning into a really unusual and worrying statistic.
It seems the only player who doesn't appear to have got a complete c**ting is Wilson. Who would've thought that three or four weeks ago?
But please, it's one thing say "X didn't have a good game", or "Y looked out of sorts", etc, but why does it always have to be "X is shit", "Y is garbage" yardy yardy yar.
Oh, and we're "relegated already" according to some numbnuts. FFS, People need t get a grip. The first sign of trouble and people on here wet their knickers. The same as they did last season, the same as they will do every season.
More claps then boos when his name was read out, nothing during the game.
Just some minor booing when he started going off into one about a decision he didn't like. Generally there was nothing though, because he didn't really have a significant impact in the game.
Kerkar should never put on a Charlton shirt again unless every other man in the team has a broken leg and can't play. We need to ring up Villa and ask if their Stephens offer still stands. We miss Yann and Wiggins.
One interesting fact that I've only just noticed: in our first 8 home games of the season we will have already played the top 6 teams in the table - Cardiff, Boro, Palarse, Leicester, Hull & Blackburn.
Mind you, we have also lost the two other games as well - Watford & Barnsley.
Talk from a few about SCP moving on is absolutely disgraceful!
Boro weren't that good a side, Barnsley were better the other week. We threw it away yesterday, we manufactured our own defeat by making very costly individual errors, and poor tactical errors.
Barnsley beat us fair & square, yesterday we lost the game of our own accord.
The most worrying issue for me is the way our heads went down still with 20 to go. Team spirit is something I've not seen at home since the Leicester game.
We have to stay right behind SCP, we have enough quality to stay in this division. Theres no need for panic.
Gutted with the result but don't see the point in constantly slagging our boys off because at the end of the day we just are not good enough for this division.you need to take your chances at this level which is something we are not doing game after game and getting punished for it and for every mistake we make seems to lead to a goal!!!! Stephens should have started instead of Pritchard anyone who knows anything about football should see that he is our best midfielder out of the midfielders who started today don't tell me he is fifth choice no way.thought tony Mowbray's comments after the game were pure class he didn't give it the big un and said we caused them a few problems for an hour.....if we had gone in 2-1 at half time I think that would have been a true reflection but it wasn't to be.poor sub at half time by SCP we all know that but I believe he is the man for the job and he is still learning at this level hopefully come may there are 3 worst teams than us!!!! Mowbray made a good statement after he said "we had defenders who defended when they needed to and strikers who scored when they got the chances" simple game really!!!! But this is what we ain't doing and why we are 4th bottom!!!
Dont really think they was much better than us apart from taking there chances. We create a LOT of chances. We just dont take them. BWP pea roller shots, Pritchard looping header that could have gone into orbit (should have scored).
Only thing about the chances is BWP never gets any through balls to run on. Always crosses or balls he has to challenge in the air, he wont score with set-up play like that.
Theres no reason we couldnt have won that game by more than a couple of goals if it wasnt for this lack of clinical finishing and lapse in defending.
If anyone is to blame its not Powell. His subs arnt as bad as half of you make out either. Lack of investment into the squad is the problem. Apart from Fuller and possibly Wilson the rest in are not suffcient
Stephens didnt play badly. He sprayed a lot of balls out to Kerkar, who, although made a lot of poor crosses, made enough good ones for someone to get on the end of.
Talk from a few about SCP moving on is absolutely disgraceful!
Boro weren't that good a side, Barnsley were better the other week. We threw it away yesterday, we manufactured our own defeat by making very costly individual errors, and poor tactical errors.
Barnsley beat us fair & square, yesterday we lost the game of our own accord.
The most worrying issue for me is the way our heads went down still with 20 to go. Team spirit is something I've not seen at home since the Leicester game.
We have to stay right behind SCP, we have enough quality to stay in this division. Theres no need for panic.
The change at half time was our downfall. Then when the mistakes crept in we go a goal down we change formation to try and get us back in the game and in doing so had the opposite effect. Felt sorry for Pritchard as he was doing fine in the middle. Poor marking for their first goal, bad mistake for the second and the the next 2 were a case of leave the front door open, here are the keys to the car and the safe, help yourself.
How is this result NOT explainable in terms of the amount of first team and first choice players out injured and the frugal nature of our transfer dealings in the summer? What do you think another manager (pick one that you rate) would do under the circumstances and constraints that CP is under? Do you think they'd be picking up results where he isn't? I'll tell you what, they'd walk. My concern isn't that the board will sack him, it's that another team with more and better players and more money will come in for him. I believe Blackpool are in the market.
How is this result NOT explainable in terms of the amount of first team and first choice players out injured and the frugal nature of our transfer dealings in the summer? What do you think another manager (pick one that you rate) would do under the circumstances and constraints that CP is under? I'll tell you. They'd walk. My concern isn't that the board will sack him, it's that another team with more and better players and more money will come in for him. I believe Blackpool are in the market.
Take your point but I can't see CP quitting, and if he did I don't think it'd be for Blackpool. Leicester might be a different story.
And as for Middlesborough being "workmanlike" or "not very good" - they have 28 points and are sitting in automatic promotion spots. The comments others in League 1 made about us last season looked very similar. I remember "not convinced" from Sheffield Wed as being one that tickled us in particular.
How is this result NOT explainable in terms of the amount of first team and first choice players out injured and the frugal nature of our transfer dealings in the summer? What do you think another manager (pick one that you rate) would do under the circumstances and constraints that CP is under? I'll tell you. They'd walk. My concern isn't that the board will sack him, it's that another team with more and better players and more money will come in for him. I believe Blackpool are in the market.
Take your point but I can't see CP quitting, and if he did I don't think it'd be for Blackpool. Leicester might be a different story.
watched football league show and it was Dervite who let Woodgate go which was my initial thought yesterday.I will stand by my view that Boro are a good side.
Some of the criticisms of Stephens for playing too deep are well wide of the mark. At that stage we were playing 3-5-2 with Morro, Cort and Dervite at the back. None of them have good distribution so Stephens was clearly (probably under instructions) then dropping deep to pick the ball up from them and look to bring others into the game. Passing sideways? Yes, mostly, but if there is no movement ahead of him finding space what was he expected to do? He isn't equipped to dribble the ball through 6 players and we don't want him to start chipping it hopefully forward for defenders like Woodgate and Bikey to easily nod out. He did his job quite well, with some very good crunching challenges thrown in, even if a few of his passes were intercepted - as were those of nearly all our players.
Dervite in midfield was a mistake. As part of a 4-5-1 formation, sitting just in front of the back 4, ok. But yesterday he looked like what he was - a pretty average centre back playing out of position. Poor touch and inaccurate passes.
That's the main problem in my opinion - too many players played out of position. Apart from Dervite, yesterday we had also Kerkar at left back (lightweight and can't tackle) and Pritchard moved to the right midfield slot (no pace, can't cross) when he had been effective in the middle in the first half.
I am a big Chris Powell fan and have nothing but respect and admiration for the man, but it seems to me that he needs to address this issue. Some of it has been forced on him by a bad run of injuries and others out of form, but some of it is self-inflicted.
Kerkar's crossing was appalling. Got in to decent positions and put in countless balls during the second half but they were almost all dreadful. We needed to bring Green on.
Was a shame to see Morrison usually so consistent inexplicably give the ball away which put them 2-1 up and cost us the game - as soon as we went behind it was only going one way.
I was saying it all summer and it is still our biggest problem - we need a proper, decent centre mid. Board need to step up and give Powell one. Really wish we'd have flogged Stephens and bought in Hammonds / another cm.
As others have said we are up against it with injuries, but get behind Powell and I think we'll be okay. Anything on Tuesday is a bonus, but I genuinely fancy us to get a result at Bristol.
If we can hang in there, get Kermogant, Wiggins and Fuller back, then all we need is that centre mid and we'll be good enough to get into lower midtable and avoid the bottom 4 or 5.
Another very worrying performance, albeit against a good side, who had good shape and organisation and were very clinical in front of goal.
Some poor and uncharacteristic defensive errors and Chris' decision to go with three at the back was a big mistake against a fast breaking team like Boro. Better to stay in the game and try and nick one. We were all over the shop and completely fell apart in the second half. That sort of lashing is very debilitating.
As has been said many times, we are short in midfield but the lack of movement up front is a major problem and leaves players on the ball with no effective options. We also hardly got to their line from wide positions in the second half.
The reality is that a number of stalwarts from last year like Jackson and BWP ( and probably Hollands ) are simply not up to it at this level. With the current rash of injuries, our options are very limited and we'll just have to dig in and try and pick up some points where we can. I expect that we'll look at the loan market but, whatever happens, we need to try and avoid chopping and changing every week and to try and develop some combination play in the team.
As said Dervite looked like a CB in midfield, might do a job in a 4-5-1, not the answer in a 4-4-2.
Scoham is right. Dervite is nowhere near mobile enough to play CM in a 4 man midfield, even if it is at the base of a diamond. I thought he was VERY ordinary and he looked worse at centre-back (did not win ONE header). It will have to be 4-5-1 v Cardiff to steady the ship. BWP might have to be sub (hard on him, like it used to be hard on Jeffers, but needs must). Thought Kerkar did alrightish at LB (he kept his position ok but can't head). I've never been a fan of Jackson at LB but we might need to go with the following (assuming Wilson is injured);
Solly, Morrison, Cort, Jackson
Green Hollands Pritchard Stephens Kerkar
Hulse
Haynes & Cook can cover the wide men. Dervite can cover Hollands or Stephens but seemingly we don't have anyone to cover Pritchard as the offensive midfielder....unless Cook plays LW and Kerkar plays CM instead of Pritchard.
PS: Screamer...a couple more positives(!) from yesterday....Hamer's performance and Boro missing two easy chances late on!
Some of the criticisms of Stephens for playing too deep are well wide of the mark. At that stage we were playing 3-5-2 with Morro, Cort and Dervite at the back. None of them have good distribution so Stephens was clearly (probably under instructions) then dropping deep to pick the ball up from them and look to bring others into the game. Passing sideways? Yes, mostly, but if there is no movement ahead of him finding space what was he expected to do? He isn't equipped to dribble the ball through 6 players and we don't want him to start chipping it hopefully forward for defenders like Woodgate and Bikey to easily nod out. He did his job quite well, with some very good crunching challenges thrown in, even if a few of his passes were intercepted - as were those of nearly all our players.
Dervite in midfield was a mistake. As part of a 4-5-1 formation, sitting just in front of the back 4, ok. But yesterday he looked like what he was - a pretty average centre back playing out of position. Poor touch and inaccurate passes.
That's the main problem in my opinion - too many players played out of position. Apart from Dervite, yesterday we had also Kerkar at left back (lightweight and can't tackle) and Pritchard moved to the right midfield slot (no pace, can't cross) when he had been effective in the middle in the first half.
I am a big Chris Powell fan and have nothing but respect and admiration for the man, but it seems to me that he needs to address this issue. Some of it has been forced on him by a bad run of injuries and others out of form, but some of it is self-inflicted.
Exactly.
People criticizing Stephens for passing sideways seem to forget every other player knocking it forward failed to do anything....
I've criticised Dale for always knocking it sideways. I've also said he is a decent player. I think the issue for him and the team is that he is a decent player in a really crap midfield but he must take some responsibility as our "best" midfielder to grab the game and impose his obvious talent. He doesn't. He always takes the easy option. He needs to grow some balls.
I've criticised Dale for always knocking it sideways. I've also said he is a decent player. I think the issue for him and the team is that he is a decent player in a really crap midfield but he must take some responsibility as our "best" midfielder to grab the game and impose his obvious talent. He doesn't. He always takes the easy option. He needs to grow some balls.
Bit late to start growing a pair at his age!
Apart from a couple of sliding tackles he gave the ball away as cheaply as the rest of the team. There were moments in the second half where Boro could have passed blindfolded to each other.
Well lets move on and look on the bright side however hard it maybe to find. When Brighton beat us 4-0 at home despite playing us off the park their goals were all as a result of individual mistakes by our players, after that game we went on a positive run so lets hope history repeats itself.
Danny Haynes looked good yesterday when he came on and made one cross that Hulse almost turned in. Providing his hamstrings did not go in the shower he has a lot to offer on Tuesday.
All I have to say is, to the bloke 10 seats along from me shouting "you're a disgrace" "you useless effing c's" we are none of these we are just simply not good enough for this league yet, we have an above average league one squad struggling to come to terms with life in the championship. The players are giving all they have but we are just not up to it, unlike the shower that took us down to league one who were gutless and spineless. We are playing to our full capacity but we are just 2 or 3 championship quality players short, unless this is rectified through loans or in January to finish one outside relagation would be dreamland. The board need to act now and help powelly out before he starts taking a kicking as has already started or worse case they sack him and we lose one of the most promising inspiring managers we have had for years.
Even game first half and with Dervitte and pritchard and Wilson in midfield we at least had physicality to compete. Wilson's injury and somehow we ended up with the paceless and undynamic duo of Stephens and Jackson in the middle. Add to that BWP being a complete liability (and has been for a year now) and it was game, set and match. I like BWP and have sympathy that his plans in the summer seem to have been scuppered by financial problems but more often than not i'm finding his 'in game' tactics/changes aren't helping. Why not just switch Cook or Haynes for Wilson and keep everything else the same? CP still has my full backing but we need to settle the team down and get some consistency in selection. Hulse is a bonus and their clinical finishing punished some uncharacteristic defensive mistakes but i felt our half time changes did for us really.
Comments
- Here's why people think he's our best player (myself included):
- People demanding him to carry the ball / push forward / bust into box, HE'S NOT THAT KIND OF PLAYER. Not every centre mid has to be like Scott Parker when he was with us or Nicky Bailey.
- What does he offer? POSSESSION. With Stephens sitting in midfield we at least kept the ball in Boro's half for a large amount of time in the second half. Yes he was sloppy today - but he still kept showing for it and was consistently brave enough to look for the pass unlike every other player in our team who just hoofed or clipped it forward.
- Someone asked about does he get any assists > his pass to Fuller v Watford was perfect and was one of the few goals we've scored this season that hasn't come from a set play / long ball.
- BUT. And there's a big but, to get the best out of a talent like this we need energy alongside him and creativity in front of him. Hence why moving Pritchard away from the centre today was a huge mistake. How often has we seen those two together in the same midfield? I can't remember a single one. To me, those two together seems like a perfect fit...
Given the natural inclination for home teams to attack in the second half (usually shooting towards their favoured end ie. Covered End), this is turning into a really unusual and worrying statistic.
Mind you, we have also lost the two other games as well - Watford & Barnsley.
Boro weren't that good a side, Barnsley were better the other week. We threw it away yesterday, we manufactured our own defeat by making very costly individual errors, and poor tactical errors.
Barnsley beat us fair & square, yesterday we lost the game of our own accord.
The most worrying issue for me is the way our heads went down still with 20 to go. Team spirit is something I've not seen at home since the Leicester game.
We have to stay right behind SCP, we have enough quality to stay in this division. Theres no need for panic.
We create a LOT of chances.
We just dont take them. BWP pea roller shots, Pritchard looping header that could have gone into orbit (should have scored).
Only thing about the chances is BWP never gets any through balls to run on. Always crosses or balls he has to challenge in the air, he wont score with set-up play like that.
Theres no reason we couldnt have won that game by more than a couple of goals if it wasnt for this lack of clinical finishing and lapse in defending.
If anyone is to blame its not Powell. His subs arnt as bad as half of you make out either. Lack of investment into the squad is the problem.
Apart from Fuller and possibly Wilson the rest in are not suffcient
Stephens didnt play badly. He sprayed a lot of balls out to Kerkar, who, although made a lot of poor crosses, made enough good ones for someone to get on the end of.
Leicester might be a different story.
Dervite in midfield was a mistake. As part of a 4-5-1 formation, sitting just in front of the back 4, ok. But yesterday he looked like what he was - a pretty average centre back playing out of position. Poor touch and inaccurate passes.
That's the main problem in my opinion - too many players played out of position. Apart from Dervite, yesterday we had also Kerkar at left back (lightweight and can't tackle) and Pritchard moved to the right midfield slot (no pace, can't cross) when he had been effective in the middle in the first half.
I am a big Chris Powell fan and have nothing but respect and admiration for the man, but it seems to me that he needs to address this issue. Some of it has been forced on him by a bad run of injuries and others out of form, but some of it is self-inflicted.
Was a shame to see Morrison usually so consistent inexplicably give the ball away which put them 2-1 up and cost us the game - as soon as we went behind it was only going one way.
I was saying it all summer and it is still our biggest problem - we need a proper, decent centre mid. Board need to step up and give Powell one. Really wish we'd have flogged Stephens and bought in Hammonds / another cm.
As others have said we are up against it with injuries, but get behind Powell and I think we'll be okay. Anything on Tuesday is a bonus, but I genuinely fancy us to get a result at Bristol.
If we can hang in there, get Kermogant, Wiggins and Fuller back, then all we need is that centre mid and we'll be good enough to get into lower midtable and avoid the bottom 4 or 5.
Some poor and uncharacteristic defensive errors and Chris' decision to go with three at the back was a big mistake against a fast breaking team like Boro. Better to stay in the game and try and nick one. We were all over the shop and completely fell apart in the second half. That sort of lashing is very debilitating.
As has been said many times, we are short in midfield but the lack of movement up front is a major problem and leaves players on the ball with no effective options. We also hardly got to their line from wide positions in the second half.
The reality is that a number of stalwarts from last year like Jackson and BWP ( and probably Hollands ) are simply not up to it at this level. With the current rash of injuries, our options are very limited and we'll just have to dig in and try and pick up some points where we can. I expect that we'll look at the loan market but, whatever happens, we need to try and avoid chopping and changing every week and to try and develop some combination play in the team.
People criticizing Stephens for passing sideways seem to forget every other player knocking it forward failed to do anything....
Apart from a couple of sliding tackles he gave the ball away as cheaply as the rest of the team. There were moments in the second half where Boro could have passed blindfolded to each other.
Danny Haynes looked good yesterday when he came on and made one cross that Hulse almost turned in. Providing his hamstrings did not go in the shower he has a lot to offer on Tuesday.
We can't play that badly two games in a row.
We can't lose 5 home games in a row.