Stephens had a good game - so did Wilson - If you are looking for scapegoats - you ought to look at the players who let us down tonight - Cort (he has been excellent all season to be fair), Hollands and BWP were major reasons we lost - and whilst I still love the bloke - Sir Chris got the tactics wrong big time.
Decent debate chaps. Think @drawnablank and @valleygary comments sum it up pretty fair for me.
One thing that will never change with Charlton though. Whenever you are looking for a.little pick me up in life, this club seems to go out of its way to kick you in the ball cocks.
Tell me about it!...Was hoping Charlton was going to light up my day for a change!
Looking at the season the Pardew/Parky combo took us down, we were on 10 points after 9 games, then it really fell apart with 2 wins in the next 20!!!!!
I think this team is good enough to avoid such a dramatic slump......
right, here we go.................(but where do I start)
1) don't think we were unlucky - the ref did at least book the guy for diving & therefore sent him off. If you then lose to 10 men over 50 mins then you only have yourselves to blame.
2) central midfield is just not good enough. It took CP 6 games to work out we needed wingers, how long is it going to take to realise you also need your middle 2 to also go forward with it. Hollands was shocking - ball is always sideways or backwards. Someone needs to sit CP down & show him our goal - only time we played a ball FORWARD to a striker to run onto we score. Fuller played a similar ball for BWP in the 2nd half - more needed !!
3) As for BWP ????????? He was being pulled for that chance but 1 goal in 9 is shocking. Austin has 14 (FOURTEEN) so far this season for burnley - BWP wont get half that amount all season. He works well for the team & makes endless runs -= but tbh i'd rather a lazy "Killer" type (or a Super Clive) who instinctively knows where the goal is. BWP main asset is his pace - but he is not a natural goalscorer. Until we find someone who will score 20+ goals season in, season out then we are doomed. I have said this time & time again................
4) we have a goalkeeping coach, but do we have a goalscoring one !!! Goals win games & we simply never score enough. 9 games in & we have only scored more than once in 3 games(and then it was only 2) & only Ipswich have scored less. You may say we were unlucky tonight with the ball not falling for us, defenders getting blocks in etc but that happens in football - we need to be more clinical in front of goal. there were occaisons tonight where Pritchard & Solly could have shoy but decided to pass it back. Even last season when we walked League 1 we hardly set the goalscoring records alight - just once did we score more than 4 and we never walk all over teams.
5) To all those who said last month "wait until we have played 10 games" or " B'ham & Forest are tough top 6 teams" - well, take a lookat the now !!! both those teams are just above us & we really should have done a lot better against them.......btw, we now have to play 2 top 6 teams - both away from home. Come the end of the month I predict we will have only got points off Barnsley and we will be sitting bottom.
6) not sure Rasiak is the answer. He is only 20 and hasn't played a lot of football. If we are going to play an in-experienced youngster I'd prefer to play Ruben Bover - at least he is one of ours.
there - thats it. Unless it is sorted out soon I think we are going back into League 1. There are only so many times that you can blame bad luck, poor refs, blind linesmen etc etc...........sometimes you have to take off the rose-tinted glasses, give them a wipe and have another look. For those who weren't there, we have only ourselves to blame tonight !!!!!!!!!!
I think we got the ball into Fuller's feet 3 or 4 times all night. Each time something happened. Need this to happen more.
Felt we should have started 4-5-1/4-3-3. Our attacking strength on Saturday came from Stephens getting time and space, and threat from out wide. 4 against 5 in midfield today meant this just didn't happen.
Feared the worst when we went 1-0 down as Watford were really controlling things, but a fantastic ball from Stephens got us back in it. The sending off meant things were in our favour.
However, as we all know, tactics can quite easily be lost against ten men. Defending teams get deeper, the attacking team has to remain patient and work the ball, drawing teams out of position. We started off the second half doing this very well, but as we got more desperate, we started lumping it. Against three centre backs and with a limited aerial attack, this won't work. Particularly with some of the poor crosses we sent in today.
Feel Stephens is turning into a proper Championship midfielder. BWP is working his nuts off for little reward, and looking forward to seeing Solly back at RB - think his stint at left back could make him an even better player. We miss Wiggins' attacking thrust from LB. Morrison will be a Premiership defender sooner or later.
4-5-1 with Razak in and Fuller up front. Hollands poor tonight but did enough of the sweeping up job in the midfield 5 against Blackburn to get another chance on Saturday.
Wish we'd sold Stephens. I await the, " he's our most skilful playmaker".. Blah blah. He lacks urgency, won't put his foot through the ball when he shoots and loses out to often.
We were better without him last season, we would be this.
Impressed with Wilson today though. Much improved.
What about setting up the goal and never giving the ball away all night? This is a league where you have to play football and keep possession. You can't get away with the hoof ball of last season. More culpable tonight were those who kept pumping aimless crosses into nowhere.
Never giving the ball away? Did you spend half the game queuing for a pint?
Wish I had!
I felt midfield retained possession and kept their shape well. There was little time on the ball and they made decisions well, esp when Watford were trying everything to get one of ours sent off. The problem for me was too much reliance on crossing as an attacking option, esp when BWP seems to prefer to run on to a ball over the top and Fuller likes it into feet.
Solly has to move to right back as we are losing the advantage of possibly our best player. If Evina is backup left back then play him. Hollands needs to be rested.
Our squad is so small that players are getting away with inept performances, because they know their position isn't in doubt. Thats everywhere including central defense.
It's a bit early to talk about going back down to league 1. I've got every faith in CP. Don't think we'll be pushing for promotion but also don't think we'll be relegated. This is a consolidation season as far as I'm concerned.
Why oh why didn't we have a man on the line for their free kick?? Seems a simple piece of defensive positioning that could well have prevented their winner. Hamer to blame for not insisting a man stand on the line or a team tactic not to defend free kicks in that way?
This match was the classic if you don't take your chances then you get punished.
The midfield lost their early edge which allowed Watford to exert pressure which created the corner for the goal. It looked to me as if there was a bit of "after you Claude" about our defending resulting in a free Watford header. We responded though and, thanks to Hall having the reactions of the QE2, Fuller was played in for a well taken goal.
Forresti (?spelling) then got sent off so all was set fair at half time with a 1-1 scoreline and Watford reduced to 10 men.
Second half we pummelled them but didn't really work Almunia too much and it was increasingly obvious to seasoned Charlton watchers that sooner or later Watford would break away and score. The only remaining question being whether or not we could equalise again.
If I was a gambling man I expect that Wilson is being slagged off on here tonight judging by comments around me at the match. For me that is unfair as he never hid and continually showed himself as wanting (and receiving) the ball. The problem for me, once again, was the midfield with Hollands looking slow and leggy and Stephens going missing. The crossing of Kerkar, Wilson and Green could have been better but at least they got themselves into position to make the crosses.
BWP will be disappointed with the chances he missed but again at least he was there to miss them although a couple of crosses went across the box with nobody there.
Credit is due to Watford for defending like Trojans with their 10 men. I lost count of the blocked shots.
We face a long, tense season but hopefully there will be 3 worse teams.
What a truly revolting bunch of wankers Watford are. The antics of some of their players was nothing short of shameful. The 18 summed it up at the end when Fuller went to shake his hand and he backed away, big smirk on his face and gave him the 2-1 fingers.
Wasn't overly impressed with our first half performance. When it went to 10 vs 11 we were in charge. We just don't have that bit of quality to create clear cut chances. Lost count of the amount of poor balls into the box or poor decisions in and around the box.
We desperately need some pace in the side.
Thought the ref was ok in the first half then totally lost the plot in the second. Wright-Phillips was virtually rugby tackled just before the free kick they were given and scored from. He bottled the Wright-Phillips one as he'd have had to send the bloke off.
Didn't understand the subs either. did we go 3-4-3 at the end?.
When you look at the fixtures we have coming up, it really is brown trousers time.
This is as far as I read but it stopped me in my tracks as it said it all for me.
Maybe sounds like an excuse for nil points but I left the ground tonight seething at the way the Watford "players" got away with so many outrageous fouls . The one that comes to mind first was Cort being strangled (2 hands roundhis neck!) at a corner in the 2nd half with no reaction from either the lino or the ref . Absolutely disgraceful ! And I always thought Zola was a gentleman ....
OK - we didn't take our chances and yes, our decision making at times wasn't the best but I thought the lads played their socks off.Wilson looked dead on his feet at the final whistle , to name but one.
Thought it was a horrid game- can't think of another word to describe what I feel. But I'm proud of the way we didn't drag ourselves down to their level of cheating & play acting. And as someone has already stated, our record against 10 men is not a good one...
I'm not too despondent though . SCP has had to tinker with his starting 11 several times this season and of course JJ added to his problems with his injury. It IS early days and this IS a good set of lads we have . The teams we have played thus far , Blackburn apart, are well established and practised in this league . We have not been over run by anyone, except of course the first 45 mins at Derby. There are lessons to be learned and I'm confident they will be in time.
A final question to finish. Would NRC make a significant difference to the current squad ?
Tons of possession but a total lack of quality and intelligence in the final third. Seemed to panic after not scoring in the first 10 minutes after the break and resorted to lumping it up and hoping for a lucky break in the box. Watford were poor; we battered them and came away with nothing. We MUST learn to be more clinical and win games like these because there will be many others where we will be played off the park.
First of all - Bradley Wright-Phillips uses his pace well, and is the opposite of lazy; he really does work his bollocks off. However - compare him to Ricardo who has played less games yet scored more goals.. I don't think we can really keep BWP at this rate. His first touch is also appalling.
Second of all - We dominated that game. We had 16 shots, and 11 of them on target - so whomever said (a few pages back) that their keeper only made 2 saves; mate, you've been stitched up and been sent to another game. The real question is - out of 11 shots on target (or 16 shots total); why did 10 of them fail to beat the keeper? This is the main question we need to ask. We do appear to be toothless up front at times; Fuller looks dangerous and for the first time in months I knew full well the ball was going in the back of the net when Ricardo got in the box. Bradley however is pretty disappointing.
Third of all - Wilson is making immense progress, one run in particular tonight I saw him take on 3 defenders and come out on top. This lad just needs confidence, and he appears to be getting it.
Fourth - Didn't anyone else notice the time wasting in the second half? Before they went 2-1 up they were obviously playing for a draw; we were better and they knew we could punish them. Unfortunately we didn't punish them, we weren't clinical enough and we've paid the price. Paid the price like we did against Blackburn, like we did against Hull... This a re-occurring theme and one that needs changing.
Lastly, despite saying their is shortcomings up front - I firmly believe we played better against Blackburn with the 4-5-1. I was a bit disappointed when I saw we'd opted for 4-4-2; I thought we had found a formation that works on Saturday.
The officiating? Game of two halves - the first half seemed better than the second; but maybe that judgement is clouded by the sending off!
Our opposition? Filthy. I don't say this about -any- teams, but this is one team I hate and I would take pleasure at them getting sent down. Their manager is a complete and utter joke with his post-match comments about Forestieri; and they were time-wasting from the off in the second half.
I think this season in the championship, the Covered End will be singing 'Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life' at the Ipswich game at Christmas time.
4-5-1 worked well Saturday. Might be good to retry that
We were a little unlucky but not good enough in front of goal
Two sloppy goals against
Zola should be ashamed of his team for their theatrics.
Almunia is an arse
Green and Kerkar were not at th races
We've dropped a lot of silly points already - had we been a little more composed /lucky we could be 2nd or 3rd so I'm not massively concerned just yet but substitutions need to be earlier and more logical perhaps.
1 point in 6 isn't good enough, losing at home to 10 men isn't good enough. Last two games we have been alot more evenly matched so maybe we're learning to deal with this league a bit better but results are what matters.
On the game it was even then 2nd half we became too predictable. It was screaming out to add some pace into the game as they did what any other 10 man team does and put men behind the ball but we didn't do that. Waggy was on the bench use him especially with the pace he has against 10 men. Razak touted the next Yaya so why not use him? I like Pritchard but if you are chasing a game he isn't the bloke to turn if you need to create or score a goal
The one time we did a bit of slick passing we scored a goal. Kerkar I thought did well tongiht but he needs an overlapping left back not a right back playing out of position. Solly is our best player yet we play him out of position, Wilson is quick and never hides but his crossing is awful (as Stevenage told us) and in the end it was just too easy for Watford. Up front Fuller scored and created a brilliant chance for BWP who even though was being pulled back you have to get it on target from that far out, Hulse looked like he could win and get a few flick ons and the ball at times just wouldn't fall for us in the box which has happened a few times now. I predicted the free kick would go in as Watford had 3 players all in a line next to our wall and just ducked for the free kick, poor defending by us. Hollands tonight took two touches on the ball everytime he got it he needs to be quicker otherwise it just slows us down attacking wise as he passes it sideways or backwards
Overall very frustrating that we have let a very possible 6 points slip from us and we only have 1. This year is going to be a scrap. We just need to keep the faith, Kerms Wiggy and JJ to all come back, Razak and hopefully NRC should make a difference
With 10 men, Watford made it dificult; they packed their defence. On another night one or more shots would have found a way through or been deflected in and we would all be saying what a great performance. For me it was just one of those nights and certainly not one on which to start righting-off the team or individual players.
Its all about taking your chances , simples , we didn't Watford did , you could argue that the ref was extremely kind towards Watford , but you have too take defeat on the chin.
Watford were horrible, but credit to them for getting bodies behind the ball. The ref was poor, but he did send a man off so we can't really blame the result on him. The lino on the east side was appalling: Throw ins & corners given the wrong way, failed to notice blatant infringements and failed to notice the ball out of the corner quadrant that Kinsella would have been proud of. Charlton were not brilliant, but certainly not as bad as some make out. Three main things to work on: Finishing - we had loads of chances but didn't take them; crossing - far too many crosses overhit; defending free kicks - that wall was never going to stop anything. If we can start to get these three things right we'll do alright, if we don't, we won't.
Can we have some crossing practice please? Can't remember the last time I saw so many piss poor attempts to get the ball in to the centre. Fillers goal was great. The dive was entertaining. The result was one I find it hard to take considering Watford did nothing all game. But if your opposition can do nothing and still score from two set pieces then something is just not right. Looked good and exciting until it came I that final ball. Maybe time to double/treble up on some training sessions?
Comments
I think this team is good enough to avoid such a dramatic slump......
Hard times coming over the hill for sure, just somehow got to stick with the team.
1) don't think we were unlucky - the ref did at least book the guy for diving & therefore sent him off. If you then lose to 10 men over 50 mins then you only have yourselves to blame.
2) central midfield is just not good enough. It took CP 6 games to work out we needed wingers, how long is it going to take to realise you also need your middle 2 to also go forward with it. Hollands was shocking - ball is always sideways or backwards. Someone needs to sit CP down & show him our goal - only time we played a ball FORWARD to a striker to run onto we score. Fuller played a similar ball for BWP in the 2nd half - more needed !!
3) As for BWP ????????? He was being pulled for that chance but 1 goal in 9 is shocking. Austin has 14 (FOURTEEN) so far this season for burnley - BWP wont get half that amount all season. He works well for the team & makes endless runs -= but tbh i'd rather a lazy "Killer" type (or a Super Clive) who instinctively knows where the goal is. BWP main asset is his pace - but he is not a natural goalscorer. Until we find someone who will score 20+ goals season in, season out then we are doomed. I have said this time & time again................
4) we have a goalkeeping coach, but do we have a goalscoring one !!! Goals win games & we simply never score enough. 9 games in & we have only scored more than once in 3 games(and then it was only 2) & only Ipswich have scored less. You may say we were unlucky tonight with the ball not falling for us, defenders getting blocks in etc but that happens in football - we need to be more clinical in front of goal. there were occaisons tonight where Pritchard & Solly could have shoy but decided to pass it back. Even last season when we walked League 1 we hardly set the goalscoring records alight - just once did we score more than 4 and we never walk all over teams.
5) To all those who said last month "wait until we have played 10 games" or " B'ham & Forest are tough top 6 teams" - well, take a lookat the now !!! both those teams are just above us & we really should have done a lot better against them.......btw, we now have to play 2 top 6 teams - both away from home. Come the end of the month I predict we will have only got points off Barnsley and we will be sitting bottom.
6) not sure Rasiak is the answer. He is only 20 and hasn't played a lot of football. If we are going to play an in-experienced youngster I'd prefer to play Ruben Bover - at least he is one of ours.
there - thats it. Unless it is sorted out soon I think we are going back into League 1. There are only so many times that you can blame bad luck, poor refs, blind linesmen etc etc...........sometimes you have to take off the rose-tinted glasses, give them a wipe and have another look. For those who weren't there, we have only ourselves to blame tonight !!!!!!!!!!
Felt we should have started 4-5-1/4-3-3. Our attacking strength on Saturday came from Stephens getting time and space, and threat from out wide. 4 against 5 in midfield today meant this just didn't happen.
Feared the worst when we went 1-0 down as Watford were really controlling things, but a fantastic ball from Stephens got us back in it. The sending off meant things were in our favour.
However, as we all know, tactics can quite easily be lost against ten men. Defending teams get deeper, the attacking team has to remain patient and work the ball, drawing teams out of position. We started off the second half doing this very well, but as we got more desperate, we started lumping it. Against three centre backs and with a limited aerial attack, this won't work. Particularly with some of the poor crosses we sent in today.
Feel Stephens is turning into a proper Championship midfielder. BWP is working his nuts off for little reward, and looking forward to seeing Solly back at RB - think his stint at left back could make him an even better player. We miss Wiggins' attacking thrust from LB. Morrison will be a Premiership defender sooner or later.
4-5-1 with Razak in and Fuller up front. Hollands poor tonight but did enough of the sweeping up job in the midfield 5 against Blackburn to get another chance on Saturday.
I felt midfield retained possession and kept their shape well. There was little time on the ball and they made decisions well, esp when Watford were trying everything to get one of ours sent off. The problem for me was too much reliance on crossing as an attacking option, esp when BWP seems to prefer to run on to a ball over the top and Fuller likes it into feet.
All just opinions.
Fuller looks like a natural goal scorer. BWP has yet to step up.
If Evina is backup left back then play him.
Hollands needs to be rested.
Our squad is so small that players are getting away with inept performances, because they know their position isn't in doubt. Thats everywhere including central defense.
This match was the classic if you don't take your chances then you get punished.
The midfield lost their early edge which allowed Watford to exert pressure which created the corner for the goal. It looked to me as if there was a bit of "after you Claude" about our defending resulting in a free Watford header. We responded though and, thanks to Hall having the reactions of the QE2, Fuller was played in for a well taken goal.
Forresti (?spelling) then got sent off so all was set fair at half time with a 1-1 scoreline and Watford reduced to 10 men.
Second half we pummelled them but didn't really work Almunia too much and it was increasingly obvious to seasoned Charlton watchers that sooner or later Watford would break away and score. The only remaining question being whether or not we could equalise again.
If I was a gambling man I expect that Wilson is being slagged off on here tonight judging by comments around me at the match. For me that is unfair as he never hid and continually showed himself as wanting (and receiving) the ball. The problem for me, once again, was the midfield with Hollands looking slow and leggy and Stephens going missing. The crossing of Kerkar, Wilson and Green could have been better but at least they got themselves into position to make the crosses.
BWP will be disappointed with the chances he missed but again at least he was there to miss them although a couple of crosses went across the box with nobody there.
Credit is due to Watford for defending like Trojans with their 10 men. I lost count of the blocked shots.
We face a long, tense season but hopefully there will be 3 worse teams.
Maybe sounds like an excuse for nil points but I left the ground tonight seething at the way the Watford "players" got away with so many outrageous fouls . The one that comes to mind first was Cort being strangled (2 hands roundhis neck!) at a corner in the 2nd half with no reaction from either the lino or the ref . Absolutely disgraceful ! And I always thought Zola was a gentleman ....
OK - we didn't take our chances and yes, our decision making at times wasn't the best but I thought the lads played their socks off.Wilson looked dead on his feet at the final whistle , to name but one.
Thought it was a horrid game- can't think of another word to describe what I feel. But I'm proud of the way we didn't drag ourselves down to their level of cheating & play acting. And as someone has already stated, our record against 10 men is not a good one...
I'm not too despondent though . SCP has had to tinker with his starting 11 several times this season and of course JJ added to his problems with his injury. It IS early days and this IS a good set of lads we have . The teams we have played thus far , Blackburn apart, are well established and practised in this league . We have not been over run by anyone, except of course the first 45 mins at Derby. There are lessons to be learned and I'm confident they will be in time.
A final question to finish. Would NRC make a significant difference to the current squad ?
Keep the faith !
Tons of possession but a total lack of quality and intelligence in the final third. Seemed to panic after not scoring in the first 10 minutes after the break and resorted to lumping it up and hoping for a lucky break in the box. Watford were poor; we battered them and came away with nothing. We MUST learn to be more clinical and win games like these because there will be many others where we will be played off the park.
What a depressing evening.
First of all - Bradley Wright-Phillips uses his pace well, and is the opposite of lazy; he really does work his bollocks off. However - compare him to Ricardo who has played less games yet scored more goals.. I don't think we can really keep BWP at this rate. His first touch is also appalling.
Second of all - We dominated that game. We had 16 shots, and 11 of them on target - so whomever said (a few pages back) that their keeper only made 2 saves; mate, you've been stitched up and been sent to another game. The real question is - out of 11 shots on target (or 16 shots total); why did 10 of them fail to beat the keeper? This is the main question we need to ask. We do appear to be toothless up front at times; Fuller looks dangerous and for the first time in months I knew full well the ball was going in the back of the net when Ricardo got in the box. Bradley however is pretty disappointing.
Third of all - Wilson is making immense progress, one run in particular tonight I saw him take on 3 defenders and come out on top. This lad just needs confidence, and he appears to be getting it.
Fourth - Didn't anyone else notice the time wasting in the second half? Before they went 2-1 up they were obviously playing for a draw; we were better and they knew we could punish them. Unfortunately we didn't punish them, we weren't clinical enough and we've paid the price. Paid the price like we did against Blackburn, like we did against Hull... This a re-occurring theme and one that needs changing.
Lastly, despite saying their is shortcomings up front - I firmly believe we played better against Blackburn with the 4-5-1. I was a bit disappointed when I saw we'd opted for 4-4-2; I thought we had found a formation that works on Saturday.
The officiating? Game of two halves - the first half seemed better than the second; but maybe that judgement is clouded by the sending off!
Our opposition? Filthy. I don't say this about -any- teams, but this is one team I hate and I would take pleasure at them getting sent down. Their manager is a complete and utter joke with his post-match comments about Forestieri; and they were time-wasting from the off in the second half.
We were a little unlucky but not good enough in front of goal
Two sloppy goals against
Zola should be ashamed of his team for their theatrics.
Almunia is an arse
Green and Kerkar were not at th races
We've dropped a lot of silly points already - had we been a little more composed /lucky we could be 2nd or 3rd so I'm not massively concerned just yet but substitutions need to be earlier and more logical perhaps.
Onwards and upwards
On the game it was even then 2nd half we became too predictable. It was screaming out to add some pace into the game as they did what any other 10 man team does and put men behind the ball but we didn't do that. Waggy was on the bench use him especially with the pace he has against 10 men. Razak touted the next Yaya so why not use him? I like Pritchard but if you are chasing a game he isn't the bloke to turn if you need to create or score a goal
The one time we did a bit of slick passing we scored a goal. Kerkar I thought did well tongiht but he needs an overlapping left back not a right back playing out of position. Solly is our best player yet we play him out of position, Wilson is quick and never hides but his crossing is awful (as Stevenage told us) and in the end it was just too easy for Watford. Up front Fuller scored and created a brilliant chance for BWP who even though was being pulled back you have to get it on target from that far out, Hulse looked like he could win and get a few flick ons and the ball at times just wouldn't fall for us in the box which has happened a few times now. I predicted the free kick would go in as Watford had 3 players all in a line next to our wall and just ducked for the free kick, poor defending by us. Hollands tonight took two touches on the ball everytime he got it he needs to be quicker otherwise it just slows us down attacking wise as he passes it sideways or backwards
Overall very frustrating that we have let a very possible 6 points slip from us and we only have 1. This year is going to be a scrap. We just need to keep the faith, Kerms Wiggy and JJ to all come back, Razak and hopefully NRC should make a difference
The ref was poor, but he did send a man off so we can't really blame the result on him. The lino on the east side was appalling: Throw ins & corners given the wrong way, failed to notice blatant infringements and failed to notice the ball out of the corner quadrant that Kinsella would have been proud of.
Charlton were not brilliant, but certainly not as bad as some make out. Three main things to work on: Finishing - we had loads of chances but didn't take them; crossing - far too many crosses overhit; defending free kicks - that wall was never going to stop anything. If we can start to get these three things right we'll do alright, if we don't, we won't.
Calm down ladies.