We're being overrun in midfield and some want to see 2 wingers start in a 4-4-2?
What do you suggest? Its obviously not working with jackson and pritchard?
Both of them are the cause for us getting overrun, neither of them can take their fullbacks on, that eventually invites pressure onto our midfield and defence.
Both of them can't put the pressure back on their fullbacks due to not being able to get the ball down and run at them.
I'd agree if we had good Championship wingers to bring in. We need both a better balance to the midfield and more quality. Based on Green's performances last season I don't think he will add that. Kerkar also has a lot to prove, didn't make any impact at Rangers.
Sadly, as others had said, I believe that this division is just too high for JJ and Pritchard. The evidence was there for all to see last night.
I actually think that either of them could grow and prosper at this level, but they are just not the people you need in a midfield that is being overrun. As others have said, they would both do much better in a five-man midfield where they are not being required to do a job that they are not currently capable of.
We need to either go to five in midfield and hold the ball more or three up top and commit to hoofing it and letting the strikers get on with it, with defensive midfielders to protect when the ball comes back. At this level we do not have the players to play as we are and end up doing neither.
The good news is that the defence looks genuinely strong and the strikers seem to have stepped up, so this is all fixable.
Good post, I agree with that, save that Yann needs a bit of work, as others have said
A crap performance. However, as a lot of posters have eluded to here, there have been many crap performances since January, its just that teams last season weren't able to put us away, and our defence was magnificent. We are now starting to regularly be overrun in midfield (which, to be honest, was happening last season too - Sheff U at home being a prime example, where our defence got us out of the brown stuff)- this leads to Hoofball. This is what realy worries me, after all, i dont recall any game in the 2nd half of the season last year where we played well, however, because we were still winning, the cracks were papered up by our defence.This is still the same side,bar Fuller and Wilson, and we are still playing shit - some very basic questions need to be asked of management and Directors (as i keep trying to elude to, its the same problem as we have had since January, its not just the last 5 games).
One thing i recall about Fuller from his Stoke days, is that they used to use him as the sole forward to hold up and then flood the box - not pretty, but pretty is not our priority this season based on last nights performance.
Another way of putting this is to say that what worked so well last season is not going to work in the Championship.
When Chris Powell signed Kermorgant and then picked him ahead of Paul Hayes he made a very big decision; he chose to abandon the passing game he had appeared to be committed to and to switch to a much more direct long ball style, built around Kermit's brilliance in the air. This strategy, combined with the tremendous team spirit and commitment which SCP has created, worked spectacularly well obviously.
That team spirit and work ethic was there last night and explains why we could easily have won a point despite being outplayed, but Palace cruelly exposed our lack of quality and an inability to keep the ball is likely to get punished week in week out at this level.
The real question is whether the current squad is capable of playing a more patient, passing game or whether changes are needed. That's Powell's dilemma. Can he coach a change in playing style which will get more out of his current squad? If not we could be in big trouble.
If we want to play more football Dale Stephens is going to be a key player because he does have the required quality - as he showed again last night. As somebody has already noted, he'd look a much better player in a decent, passing side. I've no doubt that this explains Villa's interest in him and our determination to keep him.
Poor performance from home support - "stand up if you hate palace" around kick off set the tone - outsung by palace, by their antics doubt if there were many over 21's.
Solly was great, really cheesed off how this season looks to be panning out for JJ and Pritchard.
Fans will not stand there and sing and be 'noisy' when you're being outplayed your local rivals at home, they will cover their eyes and hope to not concede.
Our squad are still in credit for what they did last season, but they need to be told in no uncertain terms that they let us down badly yesterday. I'd hope they already know that.
They might sing loudly but just look at them, first they rip of the Millwall MILLLLLLLLLLLL song and then they sing that awful Euro football chant. Just total idiots and a complete embarrassment to football. I would rather we didn't sing at all than do all of the utterly cringe performing with flags and smoke bombs. I'm sure they must have had some kind of weird genetic experiment in Croydon, you can almost hear them dribbling in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLC7kJNEfYA
We lost a game we could have won, we didnt lose a game we had no chance of winning. We had 2 off the line Ric missed two as well. But for tactical errors and a bad decision by mini me the lino we may be having a good weekend.
Saha made the difference especially in the first 60 minutes. Without him palace were nothing special.
Lets get the negatives out the way first.
Wiggins is a shadow of the player he was last season, but he started bad last season. JJ, love the bloke, but he has not got it in this league, he has been bad all this season. Wilson is NOT a full back, he was shocking defensively last night, anyone who thinks differently, needs to get to specsavers. He was Ok going forward save for that wanky shot at the death. But his priority is to defend, we cant ask our attacking wingers to help him all the time, if they start the next game. It pisses me off when people accuse posters of wanting a 'whipping boy' if they slate a player, a la Francis. Wilson is not very good and neither was Francis, sad to say but after last night true. And as supporters we a have a right to say so, I would like all our players to be up to the Championship level but some aren't. Pritch, not the player that showed up against Fulham, need to play in the middle, but needs to bulk up more. I said it after the Hull game, Chris Powell needs to be braver, putting some width into the game at 75 minutes was 50 minutes too late, defensively we are Ok, most of the time. He must not play hoofball, they had two men on Yann all game, one to block his runs and one to win the header, Freedmen is no Alec Ferguson, but even he worked that out. Yann is great with his feet, so play some bloody football. JJ must be moved to the bench (he should not be put at left back, he would have got murdered last night), midfield reshuffle and Green or Cook for next game.
Positives in my opinion.
Solly and Morro, outstanding. Cort had a good game too. Hollands ok but his lack of pace is telling in this league Stephens was the most creative and tried to play. BWP - run and fought for everyball, lazy he is not Yann - see above. Had fight and is proper Charlton. Fuller - He wants it bad, so must start, but where? who do we drop BWP or Yann, or does Powell stick Yann behind Fuller and BWP, thus inviting hoofball so Yann can knock on to Ric and BWP? Hamer, I though he was superb last night, commanded the area, made the right decisions at the right time, could have scored which would have made him a SE7 Ledge.
I read somewhere on here a poster saying we lacked fight, utter bollox, there was some great tackles flying in all game, the last 10 minutes we would have pressured anyone in this league, the team lost because of a bad decision by the lino and more importantly because of bad tactics by the manager, because I think Palace maybe could have scored more, accept it Powell has a lot to learn, he can be a great manager, and I am sure he will be, but last night was down to his selection and tactics. Oh yes, to the morons on here who thinks that if someone crtiticises the manager then they are not supporters, do one!
It was very noticeable last night, as it was against Nottingham Forest, just how much bigger & physically stronger our opponents were. We were basically out-muscled all over the pitch. This is a major adjustment from last season that we are going to have to come to terms with quickly.
Posted this at the start of the season , echoing Mark Bright's words when he came to a meeting last April.
When asked what he felt was the main difference between Div 1 and the Championship, he said that you need to have a stronger physical presence in this league.
Feel our lack of "muscle" definitely showed last night albeit becoming slightly more balanced when Ric entered the arena. Can we clone him , please ?
As others have stated, we won't win 'em all this season . We have to find our feet as this level - a relatively small fish in a big pond but that can change as we grow & adapt.
Not the end of the world and I wasn't as disappointed as I thought I'd be after the defeat . Agree that our midfield isn't right but unless we can afford to bring in loanees, SCP will be reduced to tinkering with personnel which could be the answer.
It's going to be a much bumpier ride than last season but just keep the faith.
Do you genuinely believe that Powell is not aware of our midfield frailties?. He can't do anything about it.
absolute rubbish !! He has Danny Green to play wide right, Salim Kerkar to play cente midfield or wide left and Izquerdo Bover to also play centre midfield - not forgetting Jordan Cook who can play out wide.
at the moment we have 2 many square pegs in round holes. Pritchard is out of his depth - someone mention earlier that we have too mainly league 1 players - Pritch was non-league 18 months ago and he is not a Grant Holt or Ian Wright and this league is a step too far.
When you have possession in midfield you need to spread it wide quickly or burst through the middle, both with pace. We do neither because we have no width and no pace in either position. Until both these issues are addressed we will continue to struggle to create and our strikers who I believe are of Championship standard will be Isolated. It's fortunate we have a very decent defence. I am confident thar Sir Chris knows this. I am not confident that there is money to make the required changes.
Do you genuinely believe that Powell is not aware of our midfield frailties?. He can't do anything about it.
absolute rubbish !! He has Danny Green to play wide right, Salim Kerkar to play cente midfield or wide left and Izquerdo Bover to also play centre midfield - not forgetting Jordan Cook who can play out wide.
at the moment we have 2 many square pegs in round holes. Pritchard is out of his depth - someone mention earlier that we have too mainly league 1 players - Pritch was non-league 18 months ago and he is not a Grant Holt or Ian Wright and this league is a step too far.
Apologies. We'll be fine with those changes. Clearly we don't need midfield reinforcements.
When you have possession in midfield you need to spread it wide quickly or burst through the middle, both with pace. We do neither because we have no width and no pace in either position. Until both these issues are addressed we will continue to struggle to create and our strikers who I believe are of Championship standard will be Isolated. It's fortunate we have a very decent defence. I am confident thar Sir Chris knows this. I am not confident that there is money to make the required changes.
Can't imagine wiggins will be available for the next few games
But to be honest I can't pick a team for the next game. Do you drop yann, bwp to allow fuller a starting place. Do you play all 3. Do you play evina at left back or put solly there again.
Midfield needs a reshuffle big time. Going to be interesting to see what Powell does next game
Waggy has been out "ill" for several weeks so unlikely to make a miraculous recovery in the next week or so.
SCP has stated, I believe that Ric is still regaining his fitness so, if he did start, I can't belive he has more than 45 minutes in his legs at present.
was depressed by how we played last night. Thought Zaha was classy, Dikgacoi good, but the rest of the Palace squad reminded me of Oldham or Tranmere. Lots of pushing, shoving and time-wasting, but nothing special. That said, they still out played us. Agree that the midfield is the problem, as is retaining possession. Hence hoofball. Hoofball was OK last season but Palace (and Hull) both had defenders with more presence than Kermo. We were certainly lifted by Fuller coming on and I thought Green was causing them some problems too. Agree with the comment made above about CP's decision last season to switch to this style after starting with playing football. I remember the first game last season where we had one goal against Bournemouth that was passed into the net from deep. It's not going to be easy to do that in this division, but we do look a bit desperate. the possession stats say it all - they had 56%. Not helped by the disallowed goal, but we weren't going to win last night. That said, I think CP will be well aware of the failings, I just hope he can fix it.
Apart from anything else, last night's game could be a bit of a 6 pointer, seeing that we are now below Palace in an incredibly close league (apart from Posh)
The midfield Diamond didn't work at Forest and it didn't work again in this game. We don't have a no.10 to play at the head of the Diamond and there is no width or continuity in our play. JJ & Pritchard are chasing shadows. When we lose possession, both full backs are left exposed and both Forest & Palace were able to overload 2v1 on the flanks very easily.
We are 5 games in now and there a number of players struggling at this level after looking good in League One. The manager will need to phase them out and strengthen midfield in particular. The midfield collapsed again during the opening stages of the second half.
CP will have to make a decision soon on who drops out for Fuller. 4-3-3 at home when we are chasing the game is fair enough. But you can't play all 3 forwards at Derby or Ipswich.
Yann not working for us at present. I would drop him to the bench for the Derby game and being in Fuller. Got to stop the pathetic long ball game! JJ needs to be benched also. A step too far for him the Championship. He has struggled in every game this season. Get Kerkar out on the left as he has better pace and presence than JJ. No time for sentiment now. CP got to be ruthless before it is too late. Still plenty of points to play for so no need for panic as yet but I think new faces and tactics are needed.
Yann not working for us at present. I would drop him to the bench for the Derby game and being in Fuller. Got to stop the pathetic long ball game! JJ needs to be benched also. A step too far for him the Championship. He has struggled in every game this season. Get Kerkar out on the left as he has better pace and presence than JJ. No time for sentiment now. CP got to be ruthless before it is too late. Still plenty of points to play for so no need for panic as yet but I think new faces and tactics are needed.
i agree - time for Powell to show some cohunas and make some changes - or will he follow in the footsteps of his mentor, a certain Mr Curbishley............
It's so frustrating pumping the ball on to yanns head when he is very good with the ball at his feet. It's clearly a problem with midfield as that's why we just hoof it up to yann missing the midfield.
Saying that morro tried a few times last night walking out of defence and finding a players feet which is good to see. And when ever Stephens got on the ball he looked lively.
Midfield can't take the pressure in the Championship, bottle when they've got to pass the ball around. Centre park we were really struggling and most of the time not sticking someone centre circle to construct attacks
Bit of pace on the wings (Green there and one loanee) a strong CAM and a change of formations we'll be alright, as we have goalscorers and have a good (with Wiggins) defence, just need to sort the midfield out imo
Comments
Still think we will finish above them and they are a poor side bar Zaha and Bolasie who both looked in the mood, next game please... :
When Chris Powell signed Kermorgant and then picked him ahead of Paul Hayes he made a very big decision; he chose to abandon the passing game he had appeared to be committed to and to switch to a much more direct long ball style, built around Kermit's brilliance in the air. This strategy, combined with the tremendous team spirit and commitment which SCP has created, worked spectacularly well obviously.
That team spirit and work ethic was there last night and explains why we could easily have won a point despite being outplayed, but Palace cruelly exposed our lack of quality and an inability to keep the ball is likely to get punished week in week out at this level.
The real question is whether the current squad is capable of playing a more patient, passing game or whether changes are needed. That's Powell's dilemma. Can he coach a change in playing style which will get more out of his current squad? If not we could be in big trouble.
If we want to play more football Dale Stephens is going to be a key player because he does have the required quality - as he showed again last night. As somebody has already noted, he'd look a much better player in a decent, passing side. I've no doubt that this explains Villa's interest in him and our determination to keep him.
Solly was great, really cheesed off how this season looks to be panning out for JJ and Pritchard.
Very dissapointing all round, best team won
Our squad are still in credit for what they did last season, but they need to be told in no uncertain terms that they let us down badly yesterday. I'd hope they already know that.
We lost a game we could have won, we didnt lose a game we had no chance of winning. We had 2 off the line Ric missed two as well. But for tactical errors and a bad decision by mini me the lino we may be having a good weekend.
Saha made the difference especially in the first 60 minutes. Without him palace were nothing special.
Lets get the negatives out the way first.
Wiggins is a shadow of the player he was last season, but he started bad last season.
JJ, love the bloke, but he has not got it in this league, he has been bad all this season.
Wilson is NOT a full back, he was shocking defensively last night, anyone who thinks differently, needs to get to specsavers. He was Ok going forward save for that wanky shot at the death. But his priority is to defend, we cant ask our attacking wingers to help him all the time, if they start the next game. It pisses me off when people accuse posters of wanting a 'whipping boy' if they slate a player, a la Francis. Wilson is not very good and neither was Francis, sad to say but after last night true. And as supporters we a have a right to say so, I would like all our players to be up to the Championship level but some aren't.
Pritch, not the player that showed up against Fulham, need to play in the middle, but needs to bulk up more.
I said it after the Hull game, Chris Powell needs to be braver, putting some width into the game at 75 minutes was 50 minutes too late, defensively we are Ok, most of the time. He must not play hoofball, they had two men on Yann all game, one to block his runs and one to win the header, Freedmen is no Alec Ferguson, but even he worked that out. Yann is great with his feet, so play some bloody football.
JJ must be moved to the bench (he should not be put at left back, he would have got murdered last night), midfield reshuffle and Green or Cook for next game.
Positives in my opinion.
Solly and Morro, outstanding.
Cort had a good game too.
Hollands ok but his lack of pace is telling in this league
Stephens was the most creative and tried to play.
BWP - run and fought for everyball, lazy he is not
Yann - see above. Had fight and is proper Charlton.
Fuller - He wants it bad, so must start, but where? who do we drop BWP or Yann, or does Powell stick Yann behind Fuller and BWP, thus inviting hoofball so Yann can knock on to Ric and BWP?
Hamer, I though he was superb last night, commanded the area, made the right decisions at the right time, could have scored which would have made him a SE7 Ledge.
I read somewhere on here a poster saying we lacked fight, utter bollox, there was some great tackles flying in all game, the last 10 minutes we would have pressured anyone in this league, the team lost because of a bad decision by the lino and more importantly because of bad tactics by the manager, because I think Palace maybe could have scored more, accept it Powell has a lot to learn, he can be a great manager, and I am sure he will be, but last night was down to his selection and tactics. Oh yes, to the morons on here who thinks that if someone crtiticises the manager then they are not supporters, do one!
COYR!
Posted this at the start of the season , echoing Mark Bright's words when he came to a meeting last April.
When asked what he felt was the main difference between Div 1 and the Championship, he said that you need to have a stronger physical presence in this league.
Feel our lack of "muscle" definitely showed last night albeit becoming slightly more balanced when Ric entered the arena. Can we clone him , please ?
As others have stated, we won't win 'em all this season . We have to find our feet as this level - a relatively small fish in a big pond but that can change as we grow & adapt.
Not the end of the world and I wasn't as disappointed as I thought I'd be after the defeat . Agree that our midfield isn't right but unless we can afford to bring in loanees, SCP will be reduced to tinkering with personnel which could be the answer.
It's going to be a much bumpier ride than last season but just keep the faith.
See you in Derby ?
That's my choice for next match.
But to be honest I can't pick a team for the next game. Do you drop yann, bwp to allow fuller a starting place. Do you play all 3. Do you play evina at left back or put solly there again.
Midfield needs a reshuffle big time. Going to be interesting to see what Powell does next game
Waggy has been out "ill" for several weeks so unlikely to make a miraculous recovery in the next week or so.
SCP has stated, I believe that Ric is still regaining his fitness so, if he did start, I can't belive he has more than 45 minutes in his legs at present.
Just my humble opinion of course.
Agree that the midfield is the problem, as is retaining possession. Hence hoofball. Hoofball was OK last season but Palace (and Hull) both had defenders with more presence than Kermo. We were certainly lifted by Fuller coming on and I thought Green was causing them some problems too. Agree with the comment made above about CP's decision last season to switch to this style after starting with playing football. I remember the first game last season where we had one goal against Bournemouth that was passed into the net from deep. It's not going to be easy to do that in this division, but we do look a bit desperate. the possession stats say it all - they had 56%.
Not helped by the disallowed goal, but we weren't going to win last night.
That said, I think CP will be well aware of the failings, I just hope he can fix it.
When we lose possession, both full backs are left exposed and both Forest & Palace were able to overload 2v1 on the flanks very easily.
We are 5 games in now and there a number of players struggling at this level after looking good in League One. The manager will need to phase them out and strengthen midfield in particular. The midfield collapsed again during the opening stages of the second half.
CP will have to make a decision soon on who drops out for Fuller. 4-3-3 at home when we are chasing the game is fair enough. But you can't play all 3 forwards at Derby or Ipswich.
i agree - time for Powell to show some cohunas and make some changes - or will he follow in the footsteps of his mentor, a certain Mr Curbishley............
I thought we looked like what we are.
A very good League 1 team playing in the Championship.
Outclassed, out-muscled and out-thought by a very ordinary team with very little attacking edge.
Very long hard season ahead and we need a midfield urgently.
Second game running where we could have been hammered except for back five (Cort looked classy all night).
Injuries i.e. Wiggins might make things difficult.
I don't think there is too much wrong up front either but our midfield look too lightweight, or to slow, or both at this higher level.
Dreading Blackburn already..
Saying that morro tried a few times last night walking out of defence and finding a players feet which is good to see. And when ever Stephens got on the ball he looked lively.
If hoofball is out best tactic we need a new squad of giants with Cort as centre-forward.
Puzzles me why we bother doing it and I feel sorry for BWP having to feed of that garbage.
Bit of pace on the wings (Green there and one loanee) a strong CAM and a change of formations we'll be alright, as we have goalscorers and have a good (with Wiggins) defence, just need to sort the midfield out imo