I'm sorry I can't get over from deepest Essex on Tuesday evening. But the concept has my support. (And that of Mrs cafcfan too.) Someone suggested getting charitable status. Well, I've looked up the Charities Commissioners website and it seems to me that the aims of any supporters trust are likely to be outside the scope of the criteria for getting registered as a charity. (Somebody might like to check to see if they agree with that.) That's a shame because of the tax breaks, but never mind. I notice from the previous minutes that the actual status of a proposed "trust" would be an industrial and provident society and would need registering with the FSA. My recollection is that that process (and the subsequent regulation) is actually much more straightforward than you might imagine and should not put anybody off. The link to the relevant bit of the FSA site is here: fsa.gov.uk/doing/small_firms/msr/societies But there is an application fee - £40 - if you don't amend any of the "model rules" - whatever they are. And then an annual fee which - if I'm reading this right and it's a big if - ranges from £55 for a society with assets less than £50k up to £425 for assets over £1mn. So the fees are not too big a hit. I've downloaded a copy of the application form which I can forward on as and when. My input would be that the most important thing is to have functioning checks and balances on the finances. I have seen examples in the past of such societies that have come badly unstuck because someone, often with the very best of intentions, has "lost" the money. That's not being negative, just a statement of the crucial nature of making sure the finances are well looked after.
I'm not sure I can attend due to previous engagement that I am struggling to get out of, but I think I could be alot of help on all sides aswell as web.
Charlton have been my love always and the future of the club is my aim. I am not saying anything about what has been said about the club and what people have said about a financial problem, but anything that cements Charltons future I am game for.
Here is my contact details, drop me an email on how I can help and I will try and make it down if I can get outta prior engagement!
We are forming a trust so that if possible charlton fans have a permenant voice in the club and some way of securing its future
You could go back as far the valley party if you like, although what was done then was amazing and shows what you can achieve
The problems when the last attempt to form a trust happened
I think we missed an opportunity when lansdowne mews came up for sale, there was no trust set up to possibly step in
And now we have the current crisis of confidence - see the half million other threads on that for reference, but not here please as this isn't what its all about necessarily
Many of us just can't stand back idly while this continues to happen, and personally i think this sort of finance issue will affect more and more clubs while football continues to live beyond its means
Sure we may not succeed but you don't know until you try, and boy are we going to give this a try
Cheers
thanks razil - i'm still none the wiser as to what this finacial confidence 'issue' is all about however - guess i'll have to carry on trawling around
Cool, it may sound odd but as i see it the trust isn't about that necessarily, although at the same time if events do come to the surface, a trust may be needed in some way.
Do check other threads if your after this sort of information, but as far as I know nothing is in the public domain and attributable as fact as yet, nor may it ever be.
A suggested "object clause" for any possible Supporters' Trust:
We are supporters of Charlton Athletic Football Club and have formed this trust to conserve and protect the fabric and heritage of our beloved Club until such time as there is overwhelming evidence that such conservation and protection is detrimental to the continued existence of the Club.
Specific examples of what is meant by the above include:
1) Our ground, The Valley, which earlier generations of supporters fought so hard to regain when taken from us.
2) Our ethos as a friendly family club where any fan can feel safe and welcome regardless of colour or creed.
3) Our training ground where generations of young players are developed
4) Our ethos as a Club in the Community.
5) To represent the interests of Charlton supporters, where needed, in the development of football as a whole.
It will take time and money to achieve these aims so we would ask all interested supporters to please give both where possible.
Len I donth think any of your goals talk about direct fan representation at a decision making level in the club, do you not feel that would be key to realistically achieving any or all of the aims you've suggested ?
Len I donth think any of your goals talk about direct fan representation at a decision making level in the club, do you not feel that would be key to realistically achieving any or all of the aims you've suggested ?
You need "objects" to know what you want to make decisions about.
What you say is perfectly valid but is what I would call the "method" of attaining those "objects."
How one achieves that "method" needs a better brain (s) than mine.
The brutal reality is that "direct fan representation at a decision making level in the club" will only come at the invitation in some guise or other of the Board.
10,000 season tickets contributing £10 each would raise £100,000. 10,000 season ticket holders contributing £100 each would raise £1,000,000.
How much is that Lansdowne Mews land worth? If a Supporters' Trust could somehow buy that it might offer a way into the decision making process but again, ultimately, it will have to be at the invitation of the Board.
Len I donth think any of your goals talk about direct fan representation at a decision making level in the club, do you not feel that would be key to realistically achieving any or all of the aims you've suggested ?
You need "objects" to know what you want to make decisions about.
What you say is perfectly valid but is what I would call the "method" of attaining those "objects."
How one achieves that "method" needs a better brain (s) than mine.
The brutal reality is that "direct fan representation at a decision making level in the club" will only come at the invitation in some guise or other of the Board.
10,000 season tickets contributing £10 each would raise £100,000. 10,000 season ticket holders contributing £100 each would raise £1,000,000.
How much is that Lansdowne Mews land worth? If a Supporters' Trust could somehow buy that it might offer a way into the decision making process but again, ultimately, it will have to be at the invitation of the Board.
This.
However, Lansdowne Mews would only help the club develop the ground. If the trust had the pitch it would almost stop the club from moving without the trust getting a say in that move.
all contributions are great folks but would be even better if given as part of active participation in the Trust, please do try and come if not tomorrow then later if you have highly useful ideas contributions like this
Len I donth think any of your goals talk about direct fan representation at a decision making level in the club, do you not feel that would be key to realistically achieving any or all of the aims you've suggested ?
You need "objects" to know what you want to make decisions about.
What you say is perfectly valid but is what I would call the "method" of attaining those "objects."
How one achieves that "method" needs a better brain (s) than mine.
The brutal reality is that "direct fan representation at a decision making level in the club" will only come at the invitation in some guise or other of the Board.
10,000 season tickets contributing £10 each would raise £100,000. 10,000 season ticket holders contributing £100 each would raise £1,000,000.
How much is that Lansdowne Mews land worth? If a Supporters' Trust could somehow buy that it might offer a way into the decision making process but again, ultimately, it will have to be at the invitation of the Board.
This.
However, Lansdowne Mews would only help the club develop the ground. If the trust had the pitch it would almost stop the club from moving without the trust getting a say in that move.
I just think we're getting ahead of ourselves. People need to understand that this is s very long process (we're talking years) and I think setting specific goals - like buying the pitch - is far too specific at this stage.
Plus I highly doubt a club will ever sell its pitch to its fans after the Chelsea situation !
Depends on how desperate the club are. Unfortunatley our strenght will depend on how weak the club is at the moment of time when the trust becomes into being.
Depends on how desperate the club are. Unfortunatley our strenght will depend on how weak the club is at the moment of time when the trust becomes into being.
I would see it differently. A strong, robust trust would be able to stand on its own two feet and would attract support not because the club is in a vulnerable position but because people want to feel engaged. Of course there will be some who are only interested if they think there's some sort of crisis going on, but if we can make it so that for the majority being a member of the supporters trust is an important part of being a Charlton fan then we can stand on our own to feet and have the resources in place to act as and when a situation arose. This way we can be defined by the trusts success and not the clubs failure.
cool, am trying to make sure none of these great ideas are missed, at the same time I'd personally rather debate stuff within the Trust process, but hey ho I guess beggars can't be choosers
Depends on how desperate the club are. Unfortunatley our strenght will depend on how weak the club is at the moment of time when the trust becomes into being.
I would see it differently. A strong, robust trust would be able to stand on its own two feet and would attract support not because the club is in a vulnerable position but because people want to feel engaged. Of course there will be some who are only interested if they think there's some sort of crisis going on, but if we can make it so that for the majority being a member of the supporters trust is an important part of being a Charlton fan then we can stand on our own to feet and have the resources in place to act as and when a situation arose. This way we can be defined by the trusts success and not the clubs failure.
When we had the Supporters' Director vote some years ago and it was open to all adult season ticket holder, the winner got 350 ish votes, from over 12K fans who could vote. Look at CASC it has fallen away because it didn't have a real cause to unite behind and it then spent most of its time in fighting.
Getting supporters interested will be very hard and perhaps will be the hardest bit of getting the trust going.
Depends on how desperate the club are. Unfortunatley our strenght will depend on how weak the club is at the moment of time when the trust becomes into being.
I would see it differently. A strong, robust trust would be able to stand on its own two feet and would attract support not because the club is in a vulnerable position but because people want to feel engaged. Of course there will be some who are only interested if they think there's some sort of crisis going on, but if we can make it so that for the majority being a member of the supporters trust is an important part of being a Charlton fan then we can stand on our own to feet and have the resources in place to act as and when a situation arose. This way we can be defined by the trusts success and not the clubs failure.
When we had the Supporters' Director vote some years ago and it was open to all adult season ticket holder, the winner got 350 ish votes, from over 12K fans who could vote. Look at CASC it has fallen away because it didn't have a real cause to unite behind and it then spent most of its time in fighting.
Getting supporters interested will be very hard and perhaps will be the hardest bit of getting the trust going.
I arrive at heathrow at 9pm so I cannot attend. If I have one thought it is this: try and keep the first meeting short and sweet. Try to make the meeting a way of finding common interest. Don't start appointing leaders and doers. Try to get a consensus and end the meeting quickly so that everyone can reflect. Dont discuss things too much. If this is put together too quickly, it will not work. Lens comments are very sensible. Try to make bullet points and not allow long speeches. Wish I could be there.
Comments
Someone suggested getting charitable status. Well, I've looked up the Charities Commissioners website and it seems to me that the aims of any supporters trust are likely to be outside the scope of the criteria for getting registered as a charity. (Somebody might like to check to see if they agree with that.) That's a shame because of the tax breaks, but never mind.
I notice from the previous minutes that the actual status of a proposed "trust" would be an industrial and provident society and would need registering with the FSA. My recollection is that that process (and the subsequent regulation) is actually much more straightforward than you might imagine and should not put anybody off. The link to the relevant bit of the FSA site is here: fsa.gov.uk/doing/small_firms/msr/societies
But there is an application fee - £40 - if you don't amend any of the "model rules" - whatever they are. And then an annual fee which - if I'm reading this right and it's a big if - ranges from £55 for a society with assets less than £50k up to £425 for assets over £1mn. So the fees are not too big a hit. I've downloaded a copy of the application form which I can forward on as and when.
My input would be that the most important thing is to have functioning checks and balances on the finances. I have seen examples in the past of such societies that have come badly unstuck because someone, often with the very best of intentions, has "lost" the money. That's not being negative, just a statement of the crucial nature of making sure the finances are well looked after.
There has to be an objective----or objectives.
There has to be a GOVERNANCE structure.
If you think its hard to get people to agree on here then without these two being agreed then the Trust is shot beofre its born.
Always have an agenda and mins of the meetings.
but a still the truth.
Charlton have been my love always and the future of the club is my aim. I am not saying anything about what has been said about the club and what people have said about a financial problem, but anything that cements Charltons future I am game for.
Here is my contact details, drop me an email on how I can help and I will try and make it down if I can get outta prior engagement!
Philipmarks2931@hotmail.com
Do check other threads if your after this sort of information, but as far as I know nothing is in the public domain and attributable as fact as yet, nor may it ever be.
We are supporters of Charlton Athletic Football Club and have formed this trust to conserve and protect the fabric and heritage of our beloved Club until such time as there is overwhelming evidence that such conservation and protection is detrimental to the continued existence of the Club.
Specific examples of what is meant by the above include:
1) Our ground, The Valley, which earlier generations of supporters fought so hard to regain when taken from us.
2) Our ethos as a friendly family club where any fan can feel safe and welcome regardless of colour or creed.
3) Our training ground where generations of young players are developed
4) Our ethos as a Club in the Community.
5) To represent the interests of Charlton supporters, where needed, in the development of football as a whole.
It will take time and money to achieve these aims so we would ask all interested supporters to please give both where possible.
What you say is perfectly valid but is what I would call the "method" of attaining those "objects."
How one achieves that "method" needs a better brain (s) than mine.
The brutal reality is that "direct fan representation at a decision making level in the club" will only come at the invitation in some guise or other of the Board.
10,000 season tickets contributing £10 each would raise £100,000. 10,000 season ticket holders contributing £100 each would raise £1,000,000.
How much is that Lansdowne Mews land worth? If a Supporters' Trust could somehow buy that it might offer a way into the decision making process but again, ultimately, it will have to be at the invitation of the Board.
I hope you can attend?
However, Lansdowne Mews would only help the club develop the ground. If the trust had the pitch it would almost stop the club from moving without the trust getting a say in that move.
Plus I highly doubt a club will ever sell its pitch to its fans after the Chelsea situation !
That is why I've posted a few thoughts.
If any of my rubbish is considered worthwhile feel free to use it.
Look at CASC it has fallen away because it didn't have a real cause to unite behind and it then spent most of its time in fighting.
Getting supporters interested will be very hard and perhaps will be the hardest bit of getting the trust going.
http://www.supporters-direct.org/home.asp
Especially the resources section which talks about Governance for Supporters' Trusts