... I think Scottish football as a whole will come out stronger for it in the long run.
I don't agree. I agree with your first statement, I think they should be in the third division, if not non-league, but I don't think this can, in any way, be good for Scottish football. Already players are leaving the sinking ship, and there will be fewer opportunities for Scottish players to experience European football. The Scottish National team needs Scottish players to have experience at the highest level. Something they will not get if Celtic are the only team to get past the preliminary rounds.
I also think the SPL needs both the Old Firm teams to make it interesting and competitive. Destroying one of those clubs will not make the league more competitive, it will just make it more competitive for second place, opposed to third place when Celtic and Rangers were virtually guaranteed the top two.
Unfortunately, as bad as this is for Scottish football, it is what it is and Rangers do need to be punished. If Scottish football are going to suffer then the blame has to be put at the hands of those that mismanaged Rangers for so long.
I think it will trigger serious reform in a way that would have been impossible were it not for this situation. A realisation by all clubs that spending beyond their means and relying on the fortunes of two other clubs is no way to run a business/league.
There should be no two governing bodies, (the SPL and SFL should be disbanded and the SFA given control), there should be tight financial controls to ensure clubs spend within their means, Tv money should be distributed much more evenly between all clubs, ticket prices should go down and people should get realistic about how competitive a Scottish league can be on the european level.
I'm not denying that it is going to be very, very hard for a lot for clubs, and that there will no doubt be others in admin very soon. However, their system it completely flawed and placing Rangers into the First Division would just mean facing these problems further down the line.
All the Rangers I know and speak to WANT to go to Div 3
Really? Only a few weeks ago Rangers fans on this thread were arguing that it would be wrong to kick them out the SPL.
There is no guarantee that the SFL will even accept Rangers Newco in either the first or third division. Quite possible that they will have to apply for the season after next. Unlikely but then again read back through this thread and it was unlikely that Rangers would not be in the SPL.
Most have accepted a punishment was coming, and now they knwo their fate (no SPL) they would rather start at the bottom.
So Rangers along with Celtic are bigger than the rest of Scottish football then ? Its this you can't touch us attitude which has rightly annoyed the smaller clubs .
I only wish Fergie had stayed at Aberdeen and helped keep the league competitve . The difference to England is that if say Man Utd were in this position ,maybe someone like Aston Villa or Everton might benefit and emerge as contenders .
Personally , I like the English non league system of a double relegation so that a newco needs to start two leagues down from the old club , this would put Rangers in the Second Division .
The sanction meated out to the Gers will set a precedent for Scottish football and as long as other clubs are treated equally then I have no problem .
I am also a realist , so maybe a 15 point deduction in Div 1 on top of the relegation might be appropriate , this would at least make the Glasgow giants need to earn their promotion .
The knock on effects though are already being seen on the small scale that affects the man in the street.Our now only local village pub has done away with Sky as there wont be the Old Firm games next season.With out the Sky less people will use the pub and we may loose the pub.Just one observation in one village in the West of Scotland.The effects are going be felt everywhere up here!
Surely the Old Firm games are just 3 times in the year ?
So you think it's only hatred of the old firm that has lead to not a single one of the SPL clubs (apart from themselves) voting for Rangers to return to the SPL? Of course it isn't. It's about punishing cheating.
dundee united have sold more season tickets since we said no to rangers in the SPL than they have in the last 10 years!
people want to see them get 2nd in the prem and make the Champions league draw!
so as for the gate recipts - rangers can keep there dirty money!
SPL will be better without the old firm- better to be poor and happy than rich and evil!
All fans up there have been told they have to buy more season to come close to making up for lost gate reciepts.
"Rather be poor and happy" - So you'd rather have to make drastic cutbacks and possibly go bust than play Rangers ?
So many fans up there know the repercussions but are blinded by their hatred to the 'Old Firm'...
it is not the hatred of rangers - it is the cheating, we want a fair game, thoes who cheat should be punnished with the most severe means possible!.
that is what happening now and im happy about it - if teams go to the wall then football is not working as a feasable business, and will have to change.
football is a sport and people have forgot that - take all the money and stadiums away you will still have people playing on a bit of grass and people watching.
The knock on effects though are already being seen on the small scale that affects the man in the street.Our now only local village pub has done away with Sky as there wont be the Old Firm games next season.With out the Sky less people will use the pub and we may loose the pub.Just one observation in one village in the West of Scotland.The effects are going be felt everywhere up here!
Surely the Old Firm games are just 3 times in the year ?
The Old Firm games (7 I think last season?) the pub is full to standing from opening time 11 AM on a Sunday until 7-8 PM.Also Old Firm v other clubs also will have a healthy turnout of thirsty boys.A standard Sunday will have the regular dozen or so. Its all on a smaller cheaper scale up here that the Land Lord has said he wont recover his outlay as Sky charge a fortune for a pub-I believe the same rates apply nationwide? We are only £2.50 a pint up here.I also follow the rugby and have had half a dozen in my house with a carry out watching some of the Summer tests due to the loss of Sky in the pub!
dundee united have sold more season tickets since we said no to rangers in the SPL than they have in the last 10 years!
people want to see them get 2nd in the prem and make the Champions league draw!
so as for the gate recipts - rangers can keep there dirty money!
SPL will be better without the old firm- better to be poor and happy than rich and evil!
All fans up there have been told they have to buy more season to come close to making up for lost gate reciepts.
"Rather be poor and happy" - So you'd rather have to make drastic cutbacks and possibly go bust than play Rangers ?
So many fans up there know the repercussions but are blinded by their hatred to the 'Old Firm'...
Or maybe just think that all participants in the league should be treated fairly, and are prepared to put up with a financial burden in order to get that? If Inverness ceased to exist and reformed you'd not be whining about their right to crash their way straight back to the top table (because they wouldn't be coming along with their pockets stuffed with Murdoch cash). It's this kind of arrogance and delusion that leads most fans of diddy teams to deride the old firm. The sense of outrage from some quarters because Rangers are being treated the same as any other club is hilarious. Particularly when a club with record debts, that has robbed the taxpayer blind, is suggesting it should be given preferential treatment based on the financial stability that they'd bring.
The league was stronger before Sky and before all the glory hunters jumped on the blue bus, it could well be again.
So you think it's only hatred of the old firm that has lead to not a single one of the SPL clubs (apart from themselves) voting for Rangers to return to the SPL? Of course it isn't. It's about punishing cheating.
But doesn't there have to be some degree of proportionality in the punishment ?
This far Rangers have had - a points deduction - fine(s) - an illegal transfer ban
The club have been liquidated, lost all their players and been dragged through the mud. But this isnt enough for the fans of the smaller clubs, who smell blood and see this as their one opportunity to get one over on Rangers despite the fact that it's going to destroy their own revenue streams. It isn't really arrogance to say that no Rangers in the SPL for three years will wreck Scottish football, it's a fact (proven by Regans statement and Motherwells stunning admission that they rely on Rangers for a third of their ticket income). We can harp on about there being challengers to the old firm in the 1980's but doesn't that just show that those sides stood sti
It's not a punishment. Glasgow Rangers don't exist any longer. Through various amounts of financial chicanery and despite leaving a whole bunch of parties out of pocket the Newco will start with it's two biggest assets in place: the ground and the training ground. While I'm interested in the debate about the money and whether other teams would be better from a footballing perspective, the main point has to be that there has to be a footballing consequence to this. You can't just fail to pay the revenue and various other creditors - benefit by gold plating the team and then not have any real consequence. Money shouldn't even get into the debate, fairness and consistency should.
I honestly can't understand why any Rangers fan would want anything other than starting at the bottom and battling back up through merit rather than financial muscle. I'd honestly be embarassed. My club, Thistle, mismanaged its financial affairs, went down from the SPL to Div 2 and slogged around down there for a few years before an old hero came back and brought us back to Div one (familiar story now I think about it), but I'd not want them to somehow circumvent that process because it's simply fair.
It's not really chicanery, the new owner paid £5.5m for the assets, which the administraitors accepted - any other party who wished to purchase the assets had the opportunity to bid.0
"There should be no two governing bodies, (the SPL and SFL should be disbanded and the SFA given control), there should be tight financial controls to ensure clubs spend within their means, Tv money should be distributed much more evenly between all clubs, ticket prices should go down and people should get realistic about how competitive a Scottish league can be on the european level. "
I certainly agree but I can think of another country where exactly the same prescription would be helpful ...
It's not really chicanery, the new owner paid £5.5m for the assets, which the administraitors accepted - any other party who wished to purchase the assets had the opportunity to bid.0
Sorry, I'm being emotional about it: I just can't see how the new owner can buy them for a lot less than they're worth while the revenue and many other creditors are out of pocket.
"There should be no two governing bodies, (the SPL and SFL should be disbanded and the SFA given control), there should be tight financial controls to ensure clubs spend within their means, Tv money should be distributed much more evenly between all clubs, ticket prices should go down and people should get realistic about how competitive a Scottish league can be on the european level. "
I certainly agree but I can think of another country where exactly the same prescription would be helpful ...
Precisely, but England's authorities govern a game in a nation of 50m, Scotland's govern 5m!
All the Rangers I know and speak to WANT to go to Div 3
On Sky Sports News this morning it was announced that all Rangers season ticket holders were polled & 80% said they wanted to join the Scottish 3rd division. Baffling to me but there you go
Numerous clubs would apparently "fold" if they were without the "Rangers" money for any more than a year. That's what I heard on the radio this morning.
On the other hand - imagine how much it could benefit a team like Elgin or Berwick to know that they would get two home "sellout" fixtures and two away fixtures that will change their clubs finances for years to come....
I think it only fair for them to drop to the bottom tier
And it would make a total mokery of the Division One season. What if Rangers needed to win on the final day of the season to go up, and were playing one of these clubs who would "fold if they were without the "Rangers" money for any more than a year"? How could there be any integrity?
Darlington, Scarborough, Aldershot, Newport County et al all had to start again at the bottom of the pyramid and Aldershot are the only one to get back to the league.
And it would make a total mokery of the Division One season. What if Rangers needed to win on the final day of the season to go up, and were playing one of these clubs who would "fold if they were without the "Rangers" money for any more than a year"? How could there be any integrity?
I dont see why Rangers should care or worry, whatever division they are told to play in, that would be the SFL's decision, the ramifications of "what ifs" is for others to worry about, not Rangers, they just need to accept the punishment and get on with it and not worry about any other clubs, be it SPL or SFL clubs
Surely if they are in Div 3 then nearly all the teams in the various leagues will benefit as they surely climb through the league in the successive years?
The fans seem happy with this solution, but obviously doesnt reconcile with the wishes of the businessman that now runs the club. I cannot see them starting anywhere other than Div 1 to be honest.
Statements are beginning to appear from SFL Clubs, Hamilton due to make statement today too, Scottish Football is in a total mess, just as well I live in London :-)
And it would make a total mokery of the Division One season. What if Rangers needed to win on the final day of the season to go up, and were playing one of these clubs who would "fold if they were without the "Rangers" money for any more than a year"? How could there be any integrity?
I dont see why Rangers should care or worry, whatever division they are told to play in, that would be the SFL's decision, the ramifications of "what ifs" is for others to worry about, not Rangers, they just need to accept the punishment and get on with it and not worry about any other clubs, be it SPL or SFL clubs
Surely if the club would fold without the Rangers money for more than a year they would have to be in a different division to Rangers, otherwise they would have have the money in the season in question. If they are not in the same division to Rangers how can they be playing them in the final league game?
If anything there would be added incentive to beat them as they would get the big games again the next season.
Comments
There should be no two governing bodies, (the SPL and SFL should be disbanded and the SFA given control), there should be tight financial controls to ensure clubs spend within their means, Tv money should be distributed much more evenly between all clubs, ticket prices should go down and people should get realistic about how competitive a Scottish league can be on the european level.
I'm not denying that it is going to be very, very hard for a lot for clubs, and that there will no doubt be others in admin very soon. However, their system it completely flawed and placing Rangers into the First Division would just mean facing these problems further down the line.
I only wish Fergie had stayed at Aberdeen and helped keep the league competitve . The difference to England is that if say Man Utd were in this position ,maybe someone like Aston Villa or Everton might benefit and emerge as contenders .
Personally , I like the English non league system of a double relegation so that a newco needs to start two leagues down from the old club , this would put Rangers in the Second Division .
The sanction meated out to the Gers will set a precedent for Scottish football and as long as other clubs are treated equally then I have no problem .
I am also a realist , so maybe a 15 point deduction in Div 1 on top of the relegation might be appropriate , this would at least make the Glasgow giants need to earn their promotion .
"Rather be poor and happy" - So you'd rather have to make drastic cutbacks and possibly go bust than play Rangers ?
So many fans up there know the repercussions but are blinded by their hatred to the 'Old Firm'...
that is what happening now and im happy about it - if teams go to the wall then football is not working as a feasable business, and will have to change.
football is a sport and people have forgot that - take all the money and stadiums away you will still have people playing on a bit of grass and people watching.
The league was stronger before Sky and before all the glory hunters jumped on the blue bus, it could well be again.
This far Rangers have had
- a points deduction
- fine(s)
- an illegal transfer ban
The club have been liquidated, lost all their players and been dragged through the mud. But this isnt enough for the fans of the smaller clubs, who smell blood and see this as their one opportunity to get one over on Rangers despite the fact that it's going to destroy their own revenue streams. It isn't really arrogance to say that no Rangers in the SPL for three years will wreck Scottish football, it's a fact (proven by Regans statement and Motherwells stunning admission that they rely on Rangers for a third of their ticket income). We can harp on about there being challengers to the old firm in the 1980's but doesn't that just show that those sides stood sti
I honestly can't understand why any Rangers fan would want anything other than starting at the bottom and battling back up through merit rather than financial muscle. I'd honestly be embarassed. My club, Thistle, mismanaged its financial affairs, went down from the SPL to Div 2 and slogged around down there for a few years before an old hero came back and brought us back to Div one (familiar story now I think about it), but I'd not want them to somehow circumvent that process because it's simply fair.
Get in their Charlton. Rangers v Charlton at Ibrox on 28 July
"There should be no two governing bodies, (the SPL and SFL should be disbanded and the SFA given control), there should be tight financial controls to ensure clubs spend within their means, Tv money should be distributed much more evenly between all clubs, ticket prices should go down and people should get realistic about how competitive a Scottish league can be on the european level. "
I certainly agree but I can think of another country where exactly the same prescription would be helpful ...
On the other hand - imagine how much it could benefit a team like Elgin or Berwick to know that they would get two home "sellout" fixtures and two away fixtures that will change their clubs finances for years to come....
I think it only fair for them to drop to the bottom tier
What's so different about Glasgow Rangers?
The fans seem happy with this solution, but obviously doesnt reconcile with the wishes of the businessman that now runs the club. I cannot see them starting anywhere other than Div 1 to be honest.
If anything there would be added incentive to beat them as they would get the big games again the next season.