I'm sorry to say this but please don't take this the wrong way, I don't feel sorry for the persons who take there own life, I feel sorry for the people they leave behind. Just seen a little bit selfish.
I have No personal experience of this subject, This is my own view
When you reach that level of despair you don't believe anybody else gives a toss about you.
Even if, rationally, you should "know" that they do.
It's an illness. The mind doesn't work properly so selfishness doesn't come into it as often it is instinctive.
Not intended as a pop at your view just an attempt at an explanation.
I'm sorry to say this but please don't take this the wrong way, I don't feel sorry for the persons who take there own life, I feel sorry for the people they leave behind. Just seen a little bit selfish.
I have No personal experience of this subject, This is my own view
I certainly wouldnt take that the wrong way Gumbo, and I said 'I cant say I dont disagree with you. The tragic trail after a sucide doesnt stop with the family, the list is endless. Someone like Medders can back that up. I watched someone leap from Tower Bridge not because he had problems, but because someone had jumped in front his tube train at Tower Hill the month before and he couldnt live with it. The question I would ask you and myself is. Was he selfish?
Sorry if my views offended anyone. My Grandad threw himself in the canal when II was child, having wittnessed first hand the aftermath it has the on the people he left behind my first though was natrually with his family. Having read all the views of others on here, I realise that there 2 sides to every story but having only ever considered the feelings of my mum and nan, Ive never really stopped to consider the pain my grandad must been going though at the time. Also I regret using the word coward .
My message that was ntohing more than a knee jerk reaction in the other thread and I am bit dissapointed it was used to start this thread without fully having has the chance to explain my views.
From what I've both seen and read it is often the least selfish people, contrary to what has been said elsewhere, who end up in this tragic fashion.
I still vividly remember a teacher at my primary school who went the extra mile helping us in her own time and she tragically took her own life. At that time, even more than now, there was a real social stigma attached to such an action.
My opinion, based purely on my own instincts and experience, is that some people give so much to others, draining their own resources to do so that there is nothing left for themselves when they hit bleak times and they really are unable to see any way back.
A very interesting and perceptive view of the subject and an angle that I have never before considered.
I had a girlfriend who kept slipping into depression a couple years ago, I spent days at a time just trying to cheer her up, fortunately I succeeded most of the time but when we broke up in the end she attempted to kill herself. She eventually dug herself out of that hole with a little help from her friends, shes happy now on the face of things, with another guy. But I very seriously worry what will happen if he breaks up with her ... It could be ten times worse.
I hate it when people call it selfish. Its not selfish. It feels to them like theyre causing nothing but pain to everyone around them, just by their very existence. I still find it incredibly difficult to talk about what happened and probably always will but I think people need to understand how dark the human mind truly can become.
Sorry if my views offended anyone. My Grandad threw himself in the canal when II was child, having wittnessed first hand the aftermath it has the on the people he left behind my first though was natrually with his family. Having read all the views of others on here, I realise that there 2 sides to every story but having only ever considered the feelings of my mum and nan, Ive never really stopped to consider the pain my grandad must been going though at the time. Also I regret using the word coward .
My message that was ntohing more than a knee jerk reaction in the other thread and I am bit dissapointed it was used to start this thread without fully having has the chance to explain my views.
Fair play CH4RLTON.
Even if it is only a messageboard, it still takes balls to come out and say that.
Len I don't see it as a pop at all, this subject is very "taboo" maybe not the right word
I have alway grown up being told that a "problem shared is a problem halved etc"
It might be an illness but if you love someone/ thing so much how can you hurt them?
People that commit suicide often have self-esteem issues. They cannot see any value in themselves so, in the irrational state engendered by a really bad bout of depression they actually convince themselves that they are doing the people they love a favour by doing away with themselves.
The motive, in as much as there is any clear logical thought, is unselfish from their sick (because of the illness) perspective.
They cannot see any value in themselves so, in the irrational state engendered by a really bad bout of depression they actually convince themselves that they are doing the people they love a favour by doing away with themselves.
That's what I was trying to say, expressed far more eloquently by Len. (Not Gumbo, as the quotebox seems to think!?)
I don't think you've got anything to apologise for CH4RLTON, but well played anyway.
Likewise, I remember finding out the real cause of my Fathers death (having been told it was a car crash) in my early 20s and not living at home I spoke to a mate, I told him I just found out my Dad had died by hanging himself, his reply was "Yes, I know" it seemed that everyone knew and various authorities has decided that was the best way to deal with it. Needless to say I had a hard time dealing with this and rebelled for a few years and wandered around clumping people for a while and blaming everyone, but poor old hard done by me. From the first day I walked out of the big house, I said 'I'm going to make Dad a proud man' not sure that I've achieved that or not? but I got on with life, because its too short. As someone famous once said. Live, Love, Laugh and be Happy.
Just a couple of questions MOM, Are people with depression or Mental illness aware that they have problems? How is depression diagnosed? Do people walk into a Doctors with these problems? After all its not a visual thing. Gary Speed for example, from an outsiders perspective had the lot. Family. Success. Health (I assume) Fame and Fortune. But obviously there were underlying issues.
Reading threads like these can easily bring back memories that you would prefer banished. The little experience I do have of mental illness is that it is always better to talk than to bottle it up.There is always someone there to listen. http://www.samaritans.org/
Depression is a huge spectrum. When people attempt suicide they have crossed a line and are no longer rational. They need help, 'love' probably,from friends and also experts who understand the grim numbness of the state of mind they get into. The trouble is feelings are irrational and people are clever at masking how they really feel.
From a sport perspective Footballers and high achievers often suffer when the adrenalin loaded performance suddenly finishes and they often become alcohol dependent or worse. I admire Collimore for opening his heart. I wish Gary Speed could have done the same.
We can swap stories all we like about how we were affected when a loved one committed suicide but at the end of the day (sorry) no one will ever truly know why someone did it except for that person themself. When I was feeling low a few years ago, I wasn't thinking about anyone else except me and seeing as I don't believe in God etc I just thought "I want to go to sleep and never wake up" (horrible thought now cos I'm terrified of death and how quick life is going). We can speculate on people's reasons but sometimes people feel that they have done so much for others, they want to do something for themselves and leave this world. Can we really deny someone that right? I suppose as suicide is illegal the law would say we can, but should it be this way?
I don't have the courage to open up here as much as some others have, but I am another who can sadly confirm that a mental illness can be as life-limiting as any physical one.
I have learned to deal with mine through a combination of avoidance strategies, exercise, and a willingness to open up to friends/family (whilst studiously avoiding anyone whose best advice is to 'snap out of it' [as if you'd tell someone with a broken leg to 'walk it off']).
In my case, my symptoms are perfectly correlated to my accumulation of 'achievements' (exams, career, kids etc.) thus providing fuel for those who want to ask, "what have you got to worry about?"
The most frustrating part of the battle is the fact that you can feel as though you're making progress then as if out of nowhere, it flares up again and puts you back to square one.
A good point we cant understand or see inside another human being.
years back i was Chief Engineer but left a place i had been at from its day 1 to go else where ----we were all very very good mates did loads together..A few days into my new job my old co-ordinator contacts me asks had i herd from one of the engineers as he had gone AWOL--- i gave her a number of his snooker club where he use to go , but no one had herd from him.After a week i contacted his EX Gf who went round to his flat and found that he had hanged himself. I was asked by his brother in Ireland if i could pick up his stuff at the Hotel where we all once worked. When we opened his locked it was full of empty whiskey bottles as well as his tool locker. No one knew he had a drink problem. I had been on the piss with micky many many times i cant even remember seeing him drunk. Life and soul of any piss up. His family came over and even tho he was a catholic there was a mass for him. You cant always see someones inner demons.
A couple of you may have noted that I have just started training to be a Samaritan as a 'listerner', on the looking for work thread a couple of weeks ago.
Well I have been acccepted at the induction anyway so a very long way to go.? I wanted to do something where I felt I could hopefully give some help and support to people.
I also wanted to do something constructive with my time, that would help people who are in despair?, I hope I can help, or just listen to them?. I know that talking to others can often release the pressure of hopelessness. I am sure in the next few days all sorts of stories may appear about Gary Speed, a man who on the surface was a hero to many, and highly respected. A tragic and horrendous loss to his family, my thoughts are with them tonight.
I hope I have the strength of character to do this work/support.
I was a Samaritan volunteer about 20 years ago at New Cross. It can be very emotionally draining but also a very rewarding thing to do. It made me realise the scale of problems that are out there. Good luck in your training and volunteering.
Good luck Ken. My mum worked for the Sams for a while and though it can be emotionally exhausting, I think you can really make a difference. I admire you for having the guts to do it; not sure I have the right stuff myself.
Thanks for everyone's posts btw, very thought provoking and heartbreaking in equal measure. CL shows its quality one again.
One point I will make, I believe my mum taking her own life when I was 13 set me on the right tracks. Did she have any idea this would happen? did she believe I would be better off without her?
I have a belief, I would have ended up on the right tracks anyway as my mum would have set me right in another way if she hadn't fallen into such a sad spiral of depression that I was too young to see.
On a selfish note, I would not be engaged to be married to the most beautiful girl i've ever met as I wouldn't have changed schools met my friends I have now who set us up on a blind date nearly 7 years ago.
As I said my loss happened 10 years ago, i didnt get the GCSE's i needed for college but have worked my way up with it in my head that I will make my mum proud one day.
You never forget and you always miss them but as horrible of a cloud as it is. Every cloud does have a silver lining...
Comments
I feel the same to a point and I have had it first hand with someone I was close to
Don't appologise mate it is a fair point to say or raise
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to the question
I have alway grown up being told that a "problem shared is a problem halved etc"
It might be an illness but if you love someone/ thing so much how can you hurt them?
The tragic trail after a sucide doesnt stop with the family, the list is endless.
Someone like Medders can back that up.
I watched someone leap from Tower Bridge not because he had problems, but because someone had jumped in front his tube train at Tower Hill the month before and he couldnt live with it.
The question I would ask you and myself is. Was he selfish?
Sorry if my views offended anyone. My Grandad threw himself in the canal when II was child, having wittnessed first hand the aftermath it has the on the people he left behind my first though was natrually with his family. Having read all the views of others on here, I realise that there 2 sides to every story but having only ever considered the feelings of my mum and nan, Ive never really stopped to consider the pain my grandad must been going though at the time. Also I regret using the word coward .
My message that was ntohing more than a knee jerk reaction in the other thread and I am bit dissapointed it was used to start this thread without fully having has the chance to explain my views.
Every situation and reason is different. But not too many of them involve logical rational thinking.
A very interesting and perceptive view of the subject and an angle that I have never before considered.
I havnt read any other post like I said my own personal view and thought on the topic.
So already its achieved some good.
Likewise, I remember finding out the real cause of my Fathers death (having been told it was a car crash) in my early 20s and not living at home I spoke to a mate, I told him I just found out my Dad had died by hanging himself, his reply was "Yes, I know" it seemed that everyone knew and various authorities has decided that was the best way to deal with it.
Needless to say I had a hard time dealing with this and rebelled for a few years and wandered around clumping people for a while and blaming everyone, but poor old hard done by me. From the first day I walked out of the big house, I said 'I'm going to make Dad a proud man' not sure that I've achieved that or not? but I got on with life, because its too short. As someone famous once said.
Live, Love, Laugh and be Happy.
I have learned to deal with mine through a combination of avoidance strategies, exercise, and a willingness to open up to friends/family (whilst studiously avoiding anyone whose best advice is to 'snap out of it' [as if you'd tell someone with a broken leg to 'walk it off']).
In my case, my symptoms are perfectly correlated to my accumulation of 'achievements' (exams, career, kids etc.) thus providing fuel for those who want to ask, "what have you got to worry about?"
The most frustrating part of the battle is the fact that you can feel as though you're making progress then as if out of nowhere, it flares up again and puts you back to square one.
I was a Samaritan volunteer about 20 years ago at New Cross. It can be very emotionally draining but also a very rewarding thing to do. It made me realise the scale of problems that are out there. Good luck in your training and volunteering.
One point I will make, I believe my mum taking her own life when I was 13 set me on the right tracks. Did she have any idea this would happen? did she believe I would be better off without her?
I have a belief, I would have ended up on the right tracks anyway as my mum would have set me right in another way if she hadn't fallen into such a sad spiral of depression that I was too young to see.
On a selfish note, I would not be engaged to be married to the most beautiful girl i've ever met as I wouldn't have changed schools met my friends I have now who set us up on a blind date nearly 7 years ago.
As I said my loss happened 10 years ago, i didnt get the GCSE's i needed for college but have worked my way up with it in my head that I will make my mum proud one day.
You never forget and you always miss them but as horrible of a cloud as it is. Every cloud does have a silver lining...