Very brave of everyone to share their experiences. Unfortunately, mental illness is all too common and although medical knowledge is improving with time, there is still much to be learnt.
My brother is Bipolar. For the unedcuated, thats the more fashionable name these days for manic depression. I wont go into his full case history on here but I've seen him at his absolute lowest and I've seen the results of the manic episodes he has experiences at the other end of the spectrum.
The common statistic is that 1 in 3 Bipolar sufferers will attempt of commit suicide. Unfortunately, with the circumstances of the manic episodes he suffers, there's every chance that at some point he may even get killed before that. My family and I have to live with the fact that one day, we'll get that call. He goes missing for days at a time and we dont even know if he'll be coming back.. We have to take it day by day and hope for the best.
My brother never chose to be ill. He was a hard working intelligent bloke who's been unlucky. If, god forbid, the worst ever happens, I'll never call him selfish and nor would anyone else that knows him. The illness has ruined his life and do you know what? He has never onced complained or said "why me?". He gets on with it as best he can. Cant hold down a job, friends deserting him etc. I've had my tough times but everything is put into perspective seeing what he has to deal with.
About a month ago a fella that sits next to me at work didn't come in on a Monday morning. What was unusual was that he hadn't contacted anyone, which was most unlike him. He was greatly admired and respected for his dedication to his students and his willingness to go that extra mile - often when others gave up, he just kept on trying to help someone turn their life around and achieve what they often themselves had no confidence to believe they were capable of. He was outstanding in his field and selfless to a fault. On a personal note, I felt fortunate to have colleagues such as him, intelligent and worldly, always prepared to help and give valuable advice, but overall just a good, good man with a heart of gold. A pleasure to know.
Later that day I took a 'phone call telling me that he had been found dead at home and had to tell others the worst possible news, or so I thought at the time. Around a week later it emerged that he had taken his own life and learning this made things immeasurably worse. Some went into denial - as with Gary Speed, there was no one that seemed less likely to commit suicide. This reinforced what I already knew from earlier life experiences; you never know what someone's life is like and how they feel inside and you will never know - you cannot condemn someone for doing this as you simply cannot comprehend the pain that they must have been feeling to have done so.
3 weeks ago at his funeral, so many people attended we couldn't all fit into the crematorium. About half of the people there were his students, past and present. That was the true mark of the man. It was heartbreaking and I barely coped with the situation (I was not alone in this respect). It is hard to put your finger on the emotions that you feel after a suicide, especially one that affects you so personally - the empathy and sorrow and guilt that you feel for having someone you care about take their own life because they feel there is no other way is deeply painful and makes you feel helpless and useless. Everyone in there was wishing they had said/done something, and although we had no idea what he was going through, it doesn't help how you feel. It's like an emotional bomb that goes off and damages everyone that you know and who cares about you. On the face of it, it can be seen as selfish, but I just feel sad that someone who deserved so much better from life felt that it had become too painful for them to endure. I can't know what he endured, so I won't judge him. As has been said, anyone of us could be in this position and to think that you are somehow immune is utterly naive.
The worst thing about this was that I spoke to the chap at the end of the service and realised that the last time I had seen him was last year following the suicide of a 19 year old student....
A girl in my history class, who i considered a friend killed herself and it's changed me forever. Before I thought it was the cowards way out and only selfish and horrible people do that kind of things to themselves, but this girl was literally the loveliest girl i'd ever met, even though she was quiet she was always lovely and helpful. Her death haunted me for about a month or so and then i had a dream set in a church where she walked down the aisle in a gorgeous dress and went to the light at the altar.
I'm no religious person at all by any stretch of the imagination, i see myself as agnostic. But after that dream it didn't trouble me anymore so much.
About a year after that I fell into a depression, my mates had gone to uni and I had just been dumped by a girl i was ridiculously in love with and working in a horrible job. I came close to harming myself many times but I always remembered the girl in my history class and i felt i owed her to keep on living and being happy.
I cried when i heard about Gary Speed, I still feel really down and a lot of these painful memories are flooding back. It's a horrible, horrible thing to happen
Can't decide whether this thread should be closed or kept open , my sister tried to commit suicide last year , i find the whole thing very sad , and hard to deal with.
Can't decide whether this thread should be closed or kept open , my sister tried to commit suicide last year , i find the whole thing very sad , and hard to deal with.
I know what you mean. But it's threads like this with the heartfelt, painful and respectful comments it contains that makes this board stand out as a cut above most of the others out there in cyberland - of any club.
The truly scary and sadening thing is that for such a small band of brothers and sisters we seem to have a huge amount of personal experience in this area
I have witnessed first hand the damage of suicide but I also have experience of a damaged mind and a circumstance that haunts and reminds me daily of how strong and yet how weak and dangerous the mind can be
More people than I Think any of us realise are prone to problems that we keep to ourselves
Can't decide whether this thread should be closed or kept open , my sister tried to commit suicide last year , i find the whole thing very sad , and hard to deal with.
MIA, personally I think when its someone close as with your sister, its difficult to understand. I sit back and think well why didnt my Dad sit down and discuss with my Mum, I think the truth is that people must be so desperate they believe they have no one to talk to or talking will not solve the problem. The whole issue is sensitive and I could understand people wanting to close the thread, but if one person takes just a snippet of information from anyone of the comments on here and it answers a question they maybe asking theirself, then it hasnt been a waste. More than anything I hope you along with the rest of your family can help your sister through these hard times. If want a chat and a pint, no worry's. Ray.
The comments on here are mainly sympathetic and understanding. I do not think any of us are in a position to be critical or judgemental as we cannot begin to appreciate what these poor people have been going through.
Each of us have our frailties and it's so much easier to condemn than try to understand.
Couldn't agree more.
I'm amazed at some of the stories told on this thread, especially TCEs. Thank you all for sharing them and be brave enough to do so. I have been fortunate to have never have suffered from depression or mental illness but I have seen others close to me affected and that was painful and frustrating as it seems there is little or nothing you can do.
Today's new brings back memories of Briz, one of the gang of lads I grew up with as a teenager who also hanged himself, aged 20. He was happy and in his first proper relationship but was so afraid of that ending that he chose to kill himself.
His dad came home to find him. Would he or anyone have done that to a loved one if they were in their right mind? No, but he wasn't in his right mind and neither was Gary Speed I would suggest.
"the Cowards way out" smacks of victorian attitudes to depression ie Bottle it up, keep a stiff upper lip and don't talk about it. Basically the exact opposite of what mental health professionals advise. Yes it is selfish and hurts others but as as others have said when depressed you can't think rationally about those people as you would otherwise.
Like a few people on here I have been in the unhappy position of trying to rationalise the suicide of someone close.
It was caused by a terrible isolation - feelings and experiences that my dear friend couldn't or wouldn't share and which drove them too far into themselves where they got lost, completely without perspective and, yes, among other things, selfish in the sense that they could only deal with their own pain.
I, possibly like some other folk, have contemplated what I would do if faced with debilitating physical illness, and whether I would then have the courage to actually see any plan through. Certainly I would hate to be in the place my mother is in (mentally?physically?) with her dementia/alzeheimers.
We have a very different attitude to physical illness than to mental illness. We can see what is 'wrong' physically, and more importantly, we can see when it is put right or 'cured'.
With a troubled mind it is very difficult to see, and very difficult to be clear about when the mind is at ease again. We can assist a person who is sightless, or has a broken leg, or any number of other physical conditions, and we can be pretty confident about when those troubles are over. But being able to help those with mental difficulties is much harder to do, we struggle very often to know what to do for the best, and we feel helpless, and even angry and frustrated that we struggle. We are also frustrated that we can't pin down what we mean by being 'well' mentally, let alone cured.
Those who are confident and happy may well feel that people should simply pull themselves together and get on with it. There is also an attitude that if you're alive and kicking you should be grateful for that and also get on with things.
Suicide slaps us in the face because it tells us that life can't be simplified, people who choose that course are in many ways the bravest of the brave, but they are also destructive of those around them without realising the damage they can cause.
We are ony just beginning to understand the human mind, and it may take many generations to find out enough to be able to help the despairing.
I hope the many on here who have been touched by such tragedy can find the strength to cope.
I have been depressed, (thought about suicide/running away etc a few years ago) the one thing that kept me on is that if I did something like that, how much it would hurt my sister and dad as an end result. A bit of fighting spirit and the fact that I am young ish also kept me awake and focused.
If Speed was depressed it must have been very much behind closed doors, something he could do nothing about, just deep pain, so much so to make you take your own life. Shocking really, RIP
Each of us have our frailties and it's so much easier to condemn than try to understand.
Couldn't agree more.
I'm amazed at some of the stories told on this thread, especially TCEs. Thank you all for sharing them and be brave enough to do so. I have been fortunate to have never have suffered from depression or mental illness but I have seen others close to me affected and that was painful and frustrating as it seems there is little or nothing you can do.
Today's new brings back memories of Briz, one of the gang of lads I grew up with as a teenager who also hanged himself, aged 20. He was happy and in his first proper relationship but was so afraid of that ending that he chose to kill himself.
His dad came home to find him. Would he or anyone have done that to a loved one if they were in their right mind? No, but he wasn't in his right mind and neither was Gary Speed I would suggest.
"the Cowards way out" smacks of victorian attitudes to depression ie Bottle it up, keep a stiff upper lip and don't talk about it. Basically the exact opposite of what mental health professionals advise. Yes it is selfish and hurts others but as as others have said when depressed you can't think rationally about those people as you would otherwise.
I think that it did me the world of good talking about it (So thanks for listening!) having been raised in different era's than most on here I can honestly say I've never discussed it with my Mum and sisters because they are of a belief of not going back, but I am of a belief if my experiences and mistakes help someone especially my own children I will talk about it and pass it on. There is no book on bringing up children its all about Mum and Dad hopefully passing on their experiences and each generation adding their bit. Must go 'The Lion King' is on tv (its about Dennis Wise apparently) ; )
I have to admit that although I have never suffered from such deep depression as some on here I can honestly say I can't think of any circumstances ever that would lead me to commit suicide. I'm not being derogatory of those that have faced that problem, I'm not denying it happens or that it's wrong to think that way, it is a genuine illness... BUT it scares me to think that anyone could ever be driven into that state of mind.
From another angle. We all have our frailties as is quite obvious from this board and thread. A few years back I might have sided with 'cowards' view, but there has to be more to it than that.
I'm one of the fortunate people who has never suffered from depression or mental illness, and found depression in others very complex and difficult to understand. I thought I would do something about this as it seems that the older you get in life, the more aware you become of it around you.
I've spent the last couple of years studying for counselling qualifications as it was striking me in the later years of my life that there are a lot of people out there suffering. I don't know at present where this will go, but it's something I will take forward with me into retirement. But, it has given me a greater understanding of the suffering some people go through, and the tools to assist them in their recovery.
There's no magic cures, but talking and listening are the starting points, and progress from there.
It's become fairly evident today that even those who present to the world outside a finely balanced ideal of life, have their demons.
CL never ceases to amaze me. Thanks to those who have shared their experiences with us, it is brave to do so with a bunch of strangers. Unless you have experiences of mental illness it is very easy to dismiss it however it is an illness and those suffering from it deserve respect and understanding. As said before no one knows how anyone else is feeling and everyone deals with any given situation differently. Perhaps this will make some people think twice before judging others.
From what I've both seen and read it is often the least selfish people, contrary to what has been said elsewhere, who end up in this tragic fashion.
I still vividly remember a teacher at my primary school who went the extra mile helping us in her own time and she tragically took her own life. At that time, even more than now, there was a real social stigma attached to such an action.
My opinion, based purely on my own instincts and experience, is that some people give so much to others, draining their own resources to do so that there is nothing left for themselves when they hit bleak times and they really are unable to see any way back.
From another angle. We all have our frailties as is quite obvious from this board and thread. A few years back I might have sided with 'cowards' view, but there has to be more to it than that.
I'm one of the fortunate people who has never suffered from depression or mental illness, and found depression in others very complex and difficult to understand. I thought I would do something about this as it seems that the older you get in life, the more aware you become of it around you.
I've spent the last couple of years studying for counselling qualifications as it was striking me in the later years of my life that there are a lot of people out there suffering. I don't know at present where this will go, but it's something I will take forward with me into retirement. But, it has given me a greater understanding of the suffering some people go through, and the tools to assist them in their recovery.
There's no magic cures, but talking and listening are the starting points, and progress from there.
It's become fairly evident today that even those who present to the world outside a finely balanced ideal of life, have their demons.
Just a couple of questions MOM, Are people with depression or Mental illness aware that they have problems? How is depression diagnosed? Do people walk into a Doctors with these problems? After all its not a visual thing. Gary Speed for example, from an outsiders perspective had the lot. Family. Success. Health (I assume) Fame and Fortune. But obviously there were underlying issues.
What a very good and honest thread. I too am surprised by how many people have been directly affected by people taking their own lives, a cousin of mine killed himself many years ago. We were not close, and I cannot claim to have been particularly affected by it, but it seems a much more common thing than we realise.
I'm sorry to say this but please don't take this the wrong way, I don't feel sorry for the persons who take there own life, I feel sorry for the people they leave behind. Just seen a little bit selfish.
I have No personal experience of this subject, This is my own view
I have to admit that although I have never suffered from such deep depression as some on here I can honestly say I can't think of any circumstances ever that would lead me to commit suicide. I'm not being derogatory of those that have faced that problem, I'm not denying it happens or that it's wrong to think that way, it is a genuine illness... BUT it scares me to think that anyone could ever be driven into that state of mind.
The thing is, I expect all of those on here who have experience of this (which does include me) would probably understand why you think like that.
Most, if not all of us, can remember a time when we weren't affected by it and a good number of us probably held the same view as you until we were affected by it. The thing is, I don't blame you for feeling like that and, in fact, I think it's good that you do because, if you can't imagine those depths, then you sound like you're in rude (mental) health!
For me, the mental acceptance that I have a condition was the wake up call that gave me some perspective to deal with it. I've not beaten it, I'm on and off of medication, I see a counsellor regularly and I have days that are better than others, so maybe that's why I have absolutely nothing but sympathy for anyone with depression.
The depths that you can descend to are abominable, and for me, suicide didn't just feel like a way for me to escape, it felt like a way to release those I love from what I perceived to be 'my poisonous influence'. I sought help just in time. Best decision I ever made, but it's difficult, because the view that it's 'selfish' or that people with depression are 'malingering' or 'should just pull themselves together' is more common than you would imagine (and, of course, you notice this more when you're affected by it). Another side effect of this, of course is that I am (consciously or subconsciously) embarrassed about my condition. I don't talk about it to people really - some of my friends and family still have no clue - but occasionally I do talk to someone, and every time I do, I feel I should do it more, because it feels like one more person understands just a little better.
Comments
My brother is Bipolar. For the unedcuated, thats the more fashionable name these days for manic depression. I wont go into his full case history on here but I've seen him at his absolute lowest and I've seen the results of the manic episodes he has experiences at the other end of the spectrum.
The common statistic is that 1 in 3 Bipolar sufferers will attempt of commit suicide. Unfortunately, with the circumstances of the manic episodes he suffers, there's every chance that at some point he may even get killed before that. My family and I have to live with the fact that one day, we'll get that call. He goes missing for days at a time and we dont even know if he'll be coming back.. We have to take it day by day and hope for the best.
My brother never chose to be ill. He was a hard working intelligent bloke who's been unlucky. If, god forbid, the worst ever happens, I'll never call him selfish and nor would anyone else that knows him. The illness has ruined his life and do you know what? He has never onced complained or said "why me?". He gets on with it as best he can. Cant hold down a job, friends deserting him etc. I've had my tough times but everything is put into perspective seeing what he has to deal with.
I have witnessed first hand the damage of suicide but I also have experience of a damaged mind and a circumstance that haunts and reminds me daily of how strong and yet how weak and dangerous the mind can be
More people than I Think any of us realise are prone to problems that we keep to ourselves
Ray.
No matter who dies and in what circumstances I feel sad for them and their families.
Couldn't agree more.
I'm amazed at some of the stories told on this thread, especially TCEs. Thank you all for sharing them and be brave enough to do so. I have been fortunate to have never have suffered from depression or mental illness but I have seen others close to me affected and that was painful and frustrating as it seems there is little or nothing you can do.
Today's new brings back memories of Briz, one of the gang of lads I grew up with as a teenager who also hanged himself, aged 20. He was happy and in his first proper relationship but was so afraid of that ending that he chose to kill himself.
His dad came home to find him. Would he or anyone have done that to a loved one if they were in their right mind? No, but he wasn't in his right mind and neither was Gary Speed I would suggest.
"the Cowards way out" smacks of victorian attitudes to depression ie Bottle it up, keep a stiff upper lip and don't talk about it. Basically the exact opposite of what mental health professionals advise. Yes it is selfish and hurts others but as as others have said when depressed you can't think rationally about those people as you would otherwise.
This thread is deeply affecting.
I, possibly like some other folk, have contemplated what I would do if faced with debilitating physical illness, and whether I would then have the courage to actually see any plan through. Certainly I would hate to be in the place my mother is in (mentally?physically?) with her dementia/alzeheimers.
We have a very different attitude to physical illness than to mental illness. We can see what is 'wrong' physically, and more importantly, we can see when it is put right or 'cured'.
With a troubled mind it is very difficult to see, and very difficult to be clear about when the mind is at ease again. We can assist a person who is sightless, or has a broken leg, or any number of other physical conditions, and we can be pretty confident about when those troubles are over. But being able to help those with mental difficulties is much harder to do, we struggle very often to know what to do for the best, and we feel helpless, and even angry and frustrated that we struggle. We are also frustrated that we can't pin down what we mean by being 'well' mentally, let alone cured.
Those who are confident and happy may well feel that people should simply pull themselves together and get on with it. There is also an attitude that if you're alive and kicking you should be grateful for that and also get on with things.
Suicide slaps us in the face because it tells us that life can't be simplified, people who choose that course are in many ways the bravest of the brave, but they are also destructive of those around them without realising the damage they can cause.
We are ony just beginning to understand the human mind, and it may take many generations to find out enough to be able to help the despairing.
I hope the many on here who have been touched by such tragedy can find the strength to cope.
If Speed was depressed it must have been very much behind closed doors, something he could do nothing about, just deep pain, so much so to make you take your own life. Shocking really, RIP
Must go 'The Lion King' is on tv (its about Dennis Wise apparently) ; )
We all have our frailties as is quite obvious from this board and thread. A few years back I might have sided with 'cowards' view, but there has to be more to it than that.
I'm one of the fortunate people who has never suffered from depression or mental illness, and found depression in others very complex and difficult to understand. I thought I would do something about this as it seems that the older you get in life, the more aware you become of it around you.
I've spent the last couple of years studying for counselling qualifications as it was striking me in the later years of my life that there are a lot of people out there suffering. I don't know at present where this will go, but it's something I will take forward with me into retirement. But, it has given me a greater understanding of the suffering some people go through, and the tools to assist them in their recovery.
There's no magic cures, but talking and listening are the starting points, and progress from there.
It's become fairly evident today that even those who present to the world outside a finely balanced ideal of life, have their demons.
Are people with depression or Mental illness aware that they have problems?
How is depression diagnosed?
Do people walk into a Doctors with these problems?
After all its not a visual thing.
Gary Speed for example, from an outsiders perspective had the lot.
Family.
Success.
Health (I assume)
Fame and Fortune.
But obviously there were underlying issues.
I have No personal experience of this subject, This is my own view