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Suicide

edited November 2011 in General Charlton

Opinions are interesting is it wrong that i dont feel sorry for gary speed as he took the cowards way out and left his kids and family to clean up the mess and deal with all that follows.

 

Yes, but maybe we should debate that on a separate thread.
I expect this thread to be closed or deleted in minutes.

You CH4RLTON obviously have never lost someone to suicide. You say that Gary Speed took the cowards way out? Do you know why he took his life?

I have been there and found a suicide victim. Shortly after I came so close to taking my own life. I didn't have the courage to do it.

Do you know how scary it is to think that you will never see the light of day again, never get to (have kids or) see your kids grow up, never feel anything again... Just a leap of faith that you may move onto something better. I'd say that would be a brave leap, whether it's off a bridge or in front of a train or even off a little stool...
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Comments

  • Well said Dazzler21.
    Been with my own "BlackDog" for the last 48 hours......
  • edited November 2011
    I went on one recently again (10th anniversary in January of my loss)

    Try to keep that chin up, as hard as it gets life always improves. as I've said i have been there before so I know it. Sadly I also know how it feels when you're thinking how can this ever get better. The relief when it does will amaze those that haven't been there.
  • I've seen a couple of people write similar on Facebook and had to pull them up on it. Sadly, people can be a bit ignorant as they can't fully understand suicide until they themsleves are directly affected by it.

    Having been affected by it, it angers me so much to see comments like that. I don't mean to sound condescening but it is just down to ignorance.

  • Have had my own demons, Dazzler. 

    Thankfully now a thing of the past but a horrible thing to go through.

    All too easy to say that it's a selfish act. When the darkness decends there is no worse a place.
  • It Isn't the cowards way out when it's depression.
    Unless you've been down there yourself you really have no idea what
    it's like and so have no right to judge others.
  • i can't even begin to comprehend what has to go thru someones mind to get to that point but with every action there is a consequence and clearly he wouldn't have been in any state to think logically about things 

    but i'm sure he wouldn't have just killed himself without thought

    so tragic

    i always thought thinking of your nearest and dearest would help stop someone from suicide but maybe the mixed up thought process thinks you would be doing them a favour

    terrible stuff

  • edited November 2011

    The problem with the opinion that people who commit suicide are selfish is that it is a very subjective way of looking at a serious illness. A person can only truly be held to be responsible for their actions when they have the capacity to understand the consequences of what they are doing (or have done). In this case it is clear that Gary Speed was not in control of that thought process and therefore should not be considered blameworthy. As a society we should not censure people, especially posthumously, for actions over which they have no control.

    A tragic end to a life and RIP.

  • The poster on the other thread is trolling
  • When a tragedy like this takes place, it can only remind each one of us to always treat others with respect, no matter the situation.

     We know little of any one else's inner life and perhaps its frailty.   

  • Horrible subject is suicide and sorry to hear about your past dazzler.

    But my mates dad hanged himself, my mate was only 15 at the time. He was a great kid before he's dad commited suicide but after the incident he changed into a nightmare for everyone allways having fights got into drugs and is know locked up inside for 5 years . He's mum is know mentally ill and the family has just fallen apart . It's such a sad situation to be in as a mate as you just don't know what to do.

    I don't think suicide is the right answer , as you don't know how much it affects other relatives life. !
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  • It's an incredible complex and tragic thing. A friend of my mum's parked her car by a railway bridge, on the way to taking the kids to school. I think you can work out the rest of the story. Horrible.
  • edited November 2011

     

  • Problem is Ad, you don't know what's right when life takes those turns. Your mind is confused and twisted.
  • I hope this thread isn't deleted dazzler as I think your post makes a lot of sense to people who think that suicide is a cowards way out. Despite what Rothko says, I don't think ch4lton was trolling & once he reads your post, he'll take a different perspective of today's tragic events.
  • Incredibly shallow to call it 'selfish'. Having suffered from depression quite seriously myself and knowing someone who has I can say when you are stuck in that downward spiral sometimes death seems like the only way out. Awful situation to be in.
  • I've tried it like 4 times, its a dark dark place down there
  • people have opinions and i think that whats forums are all about, mental illness is a very big problem nowadays and needs to be addressed, however saying that i only believe it to be selfish act when it affects non connected other people, jumping in front of a vehicle from a motorway bridge for example. if people wish to take thier own life as sad as it is, its not going to stop overnight... must be a horible situation for the family but i cant quite work todays events out cant be money problems surely.
  • I am as shocked by this thread opener as I am Gary Speeds passing. 

    People in the main that take their own life are ill. Believe it or not there is such a thing as mental illness. 

    To suggest cowardice is in my opinion bad taste and lacking in understanding and certainly BAD timing.


  • Problem is Ad, you don't know what's right when life takes those turns. Your mind is confused and twisted.
    Im not calling them cowards.. Im just saying that the affect on peoples life when someone there close to commits suicide, will stick with them forever .
  • Choked reading this thread... so very, very sad :(

    It's not selfishness, it's selflessness through the distorted logic of depression. When you honestly think that the world would be a better place without you :(
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  • It is very easy to make comments like coward  and selfish and I suppose at some stage I may have felt the same.  A good friend of mine some years ago failed to commit suicide 2 times out of 3.  Lovely guy.  I suppose when you talk to someone who has tried to commit suicide and done it seriously you can get an insight into what goes through their mind at the time.

    My friend had a loving wife and two teenage children, one about to take his A levels.  My friend was asked by his wife "Why don;t you think about us?"

    I can't quite remember his exact words but it was something like he goes into a darkness and the, pain is so great that he can think of nothing else but what is happening to him,  its not that he does not care about his family its that he can only think of the darkness in his head.

    he seemed to have got better, it was over a year since he had been ill, he had moved to a less stressful job and down sized his home to reduce mortgage worries.  One day he phoned his wife from work and said he'd be a bit late.  At 10.00 pm she had that fateful knock on the door.

    He loved his family, he was not a coward, he was not selfish, he was ill and he was in a very dark place.

    I can understand anyone thinking it is a cowardly act or selfish, its not honest its that final symptom of a misunderstood illness.
  • studying applied social studies at the min in uni....used to have the same kind of views on people who took there own lives...but its a lot more then just a decision "live or die" it can come about from things such as nightmares the person can actually be oblivious to the fact they are doing it!!!
  • Problem is Ad, you don't know what's right when life takes those turns. Your mind is confused and twisted.
    Im not calling them cowards.. Im just saying that the affect on peoples life when someone there close to commits suicide, will stick with them forever .

    That's understood, but the person who commits suicide doesn't see it like that, or at least if they do then it's not a logical thought process. We'll never know what caused Gary Speed to commit suicide and viewed from here it does seem baffling, young, well paid, good job, respected by people throughout the sport (no mean feat) and successful. However I'd put as much money as I could muster that he did not perceice that he was hurting his family or friends by taking his own life. That just isn't the way he would have been thinking.
  • I believe life is a teaching ground for all of us in which we individually have chosen the lessons to be learned. If we choose to end our life prematurely then we will have to start all over again in another life until those lessons are learned. I understand the darkness life can provide and the depth of depression believe me. I know of someone whose life very nearly came to an end at a very young age but her faith and the love of her three sons provided the strength to resist and understand that her responsibilities in life were not just to herself. If you leave a family behind under these circumstances then you will leave destruction with it. I have total sympathy for people who are pushed to this level and would not condemn them for choosing death as an answer but it is the worst decision to make for them and their family ultimately.             

  • I lost my cousin to suicide, he Hung himself and we still don't know why, he was 18 and had the world at his feet a very capable footballer who had been offered the chance to turn pro in Italy after featuring in an all Ireland 11.


    It hurt like mad and still does even though it is over 10 years since,

    But the poster is right and wrong ,


    Firstly I thought it was proberly the bravest thing to do as I don't think I would have the balls to do it



    But I also hold the view that it is a selfish thing todo because once done the mess and pain is for others like me to deal with



    Unfortunately I don't think there is a right nor wrong answer to that question
  • Close this thread down ASAP
  • The last time I let my guard down on this forum was with my wife Lynne illness, so here goes again.
    50 years ago on thursday, my father died, he was 42 and he hung himself, why he thought my Mum was cheating on him. (I dont know the answer, nor care what it is)
    When Gary Speeds cause of death became common knowledge I unashamably wept, why? For his boys!
    I never found out the truth until I was in my 20s, I hope his family sit his children down as soon as they are old enough to deal with it and tell them, time will heal.
    Last year I was given newspaper cuttings of my Fathers death (the old Kentish Independant remember it?) to read it about in the papers must have been horrendous.
    Is it the cowards way out?
    I have two schools of thought on this one, from my point of view part of me thinks it was the cowards way out. To stay around and deal with it situation, myself and my sisters would of had a father, part of me thinks he was a brave man to do such a thing. Never at my lowest have I ever considered such an action, I try to approach life with a smile because it could be taken away at very short notice. My days in the London Fire Brigade various suicides revoked memories of my Dad, having seen my first ever situation exactly the same really hit hard. But the pattern you will see developing is all about me! And that is the hard faced truth, how Gary Speeds children are handled from now on is all that matters. Gary Speed has gone let them grieve in private, let them make their Dad proud.
    God Bless Dad ; )
  • I believe life is a teaching ground for all of us in which we individually have chosen the lessons to be learned. If we choose to end our life prematurely then we will have to start all over again in another life until those lessons are learned. I understand the darkness life can provide and the depth of depression believe me. I know of someone whose life very nearly came to an end at a very young age but her faith and the love of her three sons provided the strength to resist and understand that her responsibilities in life were not just to herself. If you leave a family behind under these circumstances then you will leave destruction with it. I have total sympathy for people who are pushed to this level and would not condemn them for choosing death as an answer but it is the worst decision to make for them and their family ultimately.             

    Summed my views up perfectly . Cheers for that

  • It is very easy to make comments like coward  and selfish and I suppose at some stage I may have felt the same.  A good friend of mine some years ago failed to commit suicide 2 times out of 3.  Lovely guy.  I suppose when you talk to someone who has tried to commit suicide and done it seriously you can get an insight into what goes through their mind at the time.

    My friend had a loving wife and two teenage children, one about to take his A levels.  My friend was asked by his wife "Why don;t you think about us?"

    I can't quite remember his exact words but it was something like he goes into a darkness and the, pain is so great that he can think of nothing else but what is happening to him,  its not that he does not care about his family its that he can only think of the darkness in his head.

    he seemed to have got better, it was over a year since he had been ill, he had moved to a less stressful job and down sized his home to reduce mortgage worries.  One day he phoned his wife from work and said he'd be a bit late.  At 10.00 pm she had that fateful knock on the door.

    He loved his family, he was not a coward, he was not selfish, he was ill and he was in a very dark place.

    I can understand anyone thinking it is a cowardly act or selfish, its not honest its that final symptom of a misunderstood illness.
    Wow, what a profound post.

    I think that anyone who has not suffered from these blackest depressions will clearly find it hard to believe that somebody so apparently full of life and success, can find such a dark place as to take their own life.


  • I must agree that when I heard it was suicide I was less sympathetic and see it as less of a 'loss'. There are also people who are ill that go out and kill people. We don't all sit around and say poor bloke.
This discussion has been closed.

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