i dont think he will be sacked.i also think he hasnt got a clue, he looks totaly lost to me.All this"we are playing better under Powell" is hog wash. Worst ever Charlton team and thats a FACT. He has to take some ofthe blame.
Once again we are boxed into a cornor. Give him the big shilling and it goes wrong, what do we do then ? Give him some money but not all? thats half arsed. Seems to me we are at yet another cross roads and its still a very dark place.
To be fair "worst Charlton team ever" has a lot of competition and is a subject for a thread of it's own.
This hasn't been a good season, but I think we were better than we were two seasons agao in getting relegated from the CCC. Not that much better mind...
Well this getting to be a pretty long thread, but apart from a few exceptions, mostly hot air from the disappointed and cynical who expected instant success.
Cast your minds back to the Swindon game and it's aftermath ......the performance was dire, and the fans acted accordingly.
Fact: a majority of fans wanted Parky sacked, and Slater understood this. His words at the time were along the lines of, Parky had lost the fans ..... but the Board wanted the ground filled. They couldn't see how this could happen with the then poisonous Valley atmosphere.
It was also apparent that the team often performed better away, than they did at home. Something was very wrong.
So Powell was eventually appointed, with the proviso to play better quality football. That was the Board's specific instruction.
Four wins on the trot and the results were great, although the performances not so. But everybody was happy enough, because football is a results driven business.
A few injuries to key players later, a run of disappointing results and the confidence drains from the side. Powell is able to bring in a couple of loanees, a few experienced players return to the side, and the performances lift and much better quality football is played ... but the results are inconsistant.
There are 14 players in the squad out of contract, and it's an open secret that it has always been the intention to bring in technically better and more effective players, as soon as possible after the season end
So what does it mean, other than Powell hasn't been able to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear? He's certainly gained valuable experience in a tough learning curve.
After less than 4 months, sack the manager - whatever for?
Slater's article in Saturday's programme was interesting - supportive of Powell, but lots about what he 'wants to see' and that how him and and Jiminez believe that we should now be creating a team that should be able to compete in the Championship.
Expectations for next season are clearly quite high, and Powell will no doubt be very aware of that.
As Oggy says im old ,so yes i saw those sides in the 70s. Isnt tthis our lowest ever finish ? (statos to confirm). If it is then its a FACT ---worst ever CAFC team. If not then i dont want to see a worse one !!!!!
@IsawLeaburnScore I wasn't suggesting seriously that some saddos wanted CP to fail but there's a definite feeling of opportunism in some posts. It's understandable to an extent as it's human nature to say "I told you so" but equally Parky's 'record' doesn't have to brought up at every potential occassion. Even more so as it wasn't exactly world beating was it?
As AFKA pointed out this thread had absolutely zip to do with Parky but here we again going over old ground once more.
Slater's programme notes on Saturday also pointed out that he is in the position of knowing what is going on behind the scenes and obviously knows what is going to happen over the summer. He also knows what was wrong before they took over and how that has improved since. I'm confident that he and Jiminez are no mugs and have faith in CP once he has assembled HIS squad. I know I do. As AFKA said the thing I do think CP got wrong was his coaching team as I feel he'd had been better off appointed someone with far more experience than either himself or Dyer to guide him, someone who has been there, done it, bought the tee-shirt. And no I don't think KP is that person at all.
This thread hasn't got anything to do with Parky, except that people want to compare what CP has done with what Parky did with broadly the same set of players and then base their views on CPs ability as a manager.
I am pig sick of hearing from fans of all clubs, in all divisions, slagging off their managers with absolute conviction as if they really know diddly.
Roy Hodgson was vilified by Liverpool fans this season yet he has gone to WBA and done brilliantly. Could it be that there are other factors than purely a managers ability at work?
According to one Utd fan today, Alex Fergusson was considered a laughing stock by most fans during his early time at Man Utd, and that was despite a great track record.
So I ask, what chance does a young, inexperienced manager have taking over a club who's fans are naturally incensed by the failures of recent seasons, and who expect him to work miracles with a squad where the combined ages of the four centre backs is a score over one hundred years?
Has this been a terrible season? Yes it has, I am relieved its over. The last four have been a nightmare. Last season was the worst in some respects because we did have a competitive team, flawed defensively though it was.
There is nothing in what I have seen with CPs time in charge that alters my view that he can build a team which will get us out of this god-forsaken division next season.
I never expected him to work miracles, neither I am sure did the Board. They will have set him the goal of promotion next season. Of course like all of us they would have been buoyed by the initial results. They would also be fully aware of the limitations of this squad - after all they had Wise camped out at the training ground and in the stands, running the slide rule over the playing resources. They chose not to splash much cash in the January window - BWP was signed because he became available at the right price.
Once the team stumbled again five games into to CPs tenure and regressed the level it was at the end of Parkys reign, it has been clear to me that CP has been experimenting with formations, tactics and putting players through their paces to see if they are worth keeping.
None of us really know whether CP is going to be the answer but in the end he has been chosen by those who decide.
If during the close season we have strengthened the squad, and the team starts the season brightly, then we will have a clearer view.
Great post Bing. There is probably so much going on "behind the scenes" that we don't appreciate or know about. As you say we don't yet know if CP is the answer and, also, its not just him - the whole coaching set-up, training regime, fitness approach, psychology of the team - plus the overall management changes - where does Vetere fit and will we have more foreign players...so many unknowns. We just have to wait and see and get behind CP. As several have said this isn't about Parky - love him or hate him makes no difference - he is history - all we have is now!
@cafc-west Slater even talked about what was going on behind the scenes in the programme.
"I'm in the privileged position of knowing what's going on behind the scenes - seeing the investment being made in the academy and in our scouting set-up."
"What will bring promotion is building the right squad. This will require more immediate investment, and the process has already begun in earnest"
Good post Bing and yes, that is one way of looking at it and is obviously the line that is being punted out but the reason the season flopped into nothing more than meaningless end of season trial matches is because of the shocking run of results that Powell presided over after the lucky 4. The board were not expecting that sort of slump and hence why some of us (and i would also think the board) are questioning whether Powell is the right man to be trusted with the re build. New managers quite often do need time but a new managing needing time isn't what we need right now.
I've said elsewhere, if you had someone working for you for three months and they were crap, they improved for 3 weeks and then were crap again - well you'd assume they were, indeed, genuinely crap. Under Parky, that 5 game run apart he got 19 points in 17 games.
Face it, our squad is crap. Parky compensated for that by getting them to boot it long but it's no way for us to play and if the worst team in the division can pass around you and knock 4 goals in at our own place things were hardly going to get better by leaving be. Powell's tried to improve the football and the results, but having lost Jackson - who let's face it kept Parky in a job for longer than he probably deserved - the results side just fell apart.
I think it's obvious from the way Powell's set them up to play that he's got a vision for how we can be successful. Whether he can pull it off is open to question, but he can't do it with this shower. Give him some money, get him the players he wants, and see where we go from there.
Good posts Bingaddick & rikofold men after my own heart. As I kept saying in the early stages of this thread give CP a chance and let him build his OWN team. Of course we dont want CP to be a Nero (he fiddled whilst Rome burnt down) but we all need to get behind him,be patient and give him time. If he fails I'll be one of the first to put my hands and say I misjudged him but I know it wont be for his want of trying for the club he loves.
For every argument there can be a counter argument and for every statistic there can be alternative statistics. As Afka says earlier parky has gone and discussion of his time has now gone. I can equally point to a statistic that says with a weaker team he matched last seasons results and on points was slightly ahead of equivalent games.
The point is that cp has managed enough games and brought in enough players to judge him, without reference to parky.
With or without reference to Parky Kap10 the key point you seem to have overlooked is that apart from BWP he was restricted to the loaning of youngsters which was permissible outside the transfer window so there is a difference between the players he can sign now compared to when he took the job. Therefore I would strongly disagree that 'cp has managed enough games and brought in enough players to judge him' Give him him a progress report by all means but he must be given more time before you JUDGE him. Incidentally on one of my previous threads, when CP was Chairman of the PFA his man management skills were not tested just on admin what about all the contractural disputes and representation of players he would have been involved. If you are going to pick holes in a reasoned argument think it through fully.
The previous manager (no longer permitted to mention his name!) had a specific instruction from the Board to "make the team competitive." With just 6 contracted senior players on July 1st, he did his best with what was available.
The present manager (no need to mention his name!) had a specific mandate from the Board to "produce a better quality of football", and to "attempt to improve the ability of existing players where possible".
Michael Slater also announced, that funds would not be available for team rebuilding during the transfer window - but made an exception when Wright-Phillips suddenly became re-available.
Slater has since said that rebuilding of the team sufficient to mount a serious promotion challenge next season is now the primary aim. In his programme notes last Saturday, said that he was pleased with the progress made behind the scenes.
His stand-out comment a month ago, was that Powell is a manager, not a magician.
IMO every indication that the Board are backing Powell.
If what oggy says is right then god knows what Wise was advising him. I could have told him that the squad is crap and can't play football so Powell's 'mandate' was clearly flawed from the off, as he has spectacularly confirmed.
Buying players in the mid-season window rarely seems to work out from a cost/benefit analysis.
The Board didn't give CP that much money and what he did spend was offset by releasing a couple of players (Abbott etc) but BWP is a genuine 20 goals + a season striker so was worth the punt. The rest were loanees and reasonably good quality loanees at that. Half a season on and CP now knows or should know a lot more about his squad - who is prepared to stand and fight, and who is content after a shellacking to bugger off to the Oxo Tower and tweet about it on the way. The re-building is starting but what amazes me is that CP was seemingly expected to walk in with zero managerial experience, take over a moribund squad and turn them in Champion's League prospects overnight. That was never going to happen and even if we had Fergie, along with Jose Mourinho as his deputy and Arsene Wenger as first team coach wouldn't have happened.
I was at the "love-in" at the Valley when Powell came in. I have to say that a) Chris Powell is charismatic - it's difficult to explain and part of it may be down to the fact that he is a legend, and b) as the evening progressed I couldn't help feeling that rather than being a manager, he'd read the manual about being a manager. Just my random thoughts after a bottle of wine.
Comments
i dont think he will be sacked.i also think he hasnt got a clue, he looks totaly lost to me.All this"we are playing better under Powell" is hog wash. Worst ever Charlton team and thats a FACT. He has to take some ofthe blame.
Once again we are boxed into a cornor. Give him the big shilling and it goes wrong, what do we do then ? Give him some money but not all? thats half arsed. Seems to me we are at yet another cross roads and its still a very dark place.
He's probably even older than I am.
;o)
To be fair "worst Charlton team ever" has a lot of competition and is a subject for a thread of it's own.
This hasn't been a good season, but I think we were better than we were two seasons agao in getting relegated from the CCC. Not that much better mind...
Been a regular since 1980 and imo opinion this has been the worst season I have seen.
Agree wholeheartedly with Goonerhater. This is our worst ever team.
Cast your minds back to the Swindon game and it's aftermath ......the performance was dire,
and the fans acted accordingly.
Fact: a majority of fans wanted Parky sacked, and Slater understood this. His words at the time were along the lines of, Parky had lost the fans ..... but the Board wanted the ground filled. They couldn't see how this could happen with the then poisonous Valley atmosphere.
It was also apparent that the team often performed better away, than they did at home.
Something was very wrong.
So Powell was eventually appointed, with the proviso to play better quality football.
That was the Board's specific instruction.
Four wins on the trot and the results were great, although the performances not so.
But everybody was happy enough, because football is a results driven business.
A few injuries to key players later, a run of disappointing results and the confidence drains from the side.
Powell is able to bring in a couple of loanees, a few experienced players return to the side, and the performances lift and much better quality football is played ... but the results are inconsistant.
There are 14 players in the squad out of contract, and it's an open secret that it has always been the intention to bring in technically better and more effective players, as soon as possible after the season end
So what does it mean, other than Powell hasn't been able to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear?
He's certainly gained valuable experience in a tough learning curve.
After less than 4 months, sack the manager - whatever for?
Rome wasn't built in a day.
We ve got to accept the fact that this season we were a League One side with League One standard players.
We should see what the new board are made of in the next few days when we see who is going to be retained.
CP needs to be given time to shape his own team and then people can judge him.
Slater's article in Saturday's programme was interesting - supportive of Powell, but lots about what he 'wants to see' and that how him and and Jiminez believe that we should now be creating a team that should be able to compete in the Championship.
Expectations for next season are clearly quite high, and Powell will no doubt be very aware of that.
@IsawLeaburnScore I wasn't suggesting seriously that some saddos wanted CP to fail but there's a definite feeling of opportunism in some posts. It's understandable to an extent as it's human nature to say "I told you so" but equally Parky's 'record' doesn't have to brought up at every potential occassion. Even more so as it wasn't exactly world beating was it?
As AFKA pointed out this thread had absolutely zip to do with Parky but here we again going over old ground once more.
So we finished much higher this season. FACT!
"I'm in the privileged position of knowing what's going on behind the
scenes - seeing the investment being made in the academy and in our
scouting set-up."
"What will bring promotion is building the right squad. This will
require more immediate investment, and the process has already begun in
earnest"
http://www.cafctv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10267~2356352,00.html
I've said elsewhere, if you had someone working for you for three months and they were crap, they improved for 3 weeks and then were crap again - well you'd assume they were, indeed, genuinely crap. Under Parky, that 5 game run apart he got 19 points in 17 games.
Face it, our squad is crap. Parky compensated for that by getting them to boot it long but it's no way for us to play and if the worst team in the division can pass around you and knock 4 goals in at our own place things were hardly going to get better by leaving be. Powell's tried to improve the football and the results, but having lost Jackson - who let's face it kept Parky in a job for longer than he probably deserved - the results side just fell apart.
I think it's obvious from the way Powell's set them up to play that he's got a vision for how we can be successful. Whether he can pull it off is open to question, but he can't do it with this shower. Give him some money, get him the players he wants, and see where we go from there.
The point is that cp has managed enough games and brought in enough players to judge him, without reference to parky.
The previous manager (no longer permitted to mention his name!) had a specific instruction from the Board to "make the team competitive." With just 6 contracted senior players on July 1st, he did his best with what was available.
The present manager (no need to mention his name!) had a specific mandate from the Board to "produce a better quality of football", and to "attempt to improve the ability of existing players where possible".
Michael Slater also announced, that funds would not be available for team rebuilding during the transfer window - but made an exception when Wright-Phillips suddenly became re-available.
Slater has since said that rebuilding of the team sufficient to mount a serious promotion challenge next season is now the primary aim. In his programme notes last Saturday, said that he was pleased with the progress made behind the scenes.
His stand-out comment a month ago, was that Powell is a manager, not a magician.
IMO every indication that the Board are backing Powell.
Spot on as usual, Oggy .
Great summary of how it IS !
If what oggy says is right then god knows what Wise was advising him. I could have told him that the squad is crap and can't play football so Powell's 'mandate' was clearly flawed from the off, as he has spectacularly confirmed.
Buying players in the mid-season window rarely seems to work out from a cost/benefit analysis.
The Board didn't give CP that much money and what he did spend was offset by releasing a couple of players (Abbott etc) but BWP is a genuine 20 goals + a season striker so was worth the punt. The rest were loanees and reasonably good quality loanees at that. Half a season on and CP now knows or should know a lot more about his squad - who is prepared to stand and fight, and who is content after a shellacking to bugger off to the Oxo Tower and tweet about it on the way. The re-building is starting but what amazes me is that CP was seemingly expected to walk in with zero managerial experience, take over a moribund squad and turn them in Champion's League prospects overnight. That was never going to happen and even if we had Fergie, along with Jose Mourinho as his deputy and Arsene Wenger as first team coach wouldn't have happened.