I guess we are Deadred. I suppose it's just a difference of opinion how we get there. :P Hopefully it's all academic and this time next season we're all happy chappies (and chappeses of course.)
Parky was associated with two relegations and a failure to get us promoted when we had a much stronger squad. This season he failed by his own admission "my team will improve as the season goes on" or words to that effect. Manifestly the team wasn't improving by the time he was sacked.
The team built by Parky contained fundamental flaws in its spine - especially the lack of pace in the centre of defence which resulted in full backs being unable to push on, and the whole midfield camped to deeply to help out defensively. Rectification of this issue was not addressed in the transfer window because the Board decided that value for money, in the main, is not achieved in January.
Powell was brought in for a long-term improvement in our fortunes. The club's financial dynamics had changed and the period needed to rebuild has been stretched. The Board, as I have said before chose not to spend in January.BWP was an exception because we were able to pay under the odds for him.
So we are left with either Parky - a failure (by his own admission) after several seasons or Chris Powell, the untried but highly respected ex player, tipped for greatness by many inside the game.
We none of us know whether in the end he will turn out to be the right choice, but no way has he been given enough chance. Lets see what next season brings. The squad changes, the pre-season build up, and the way the team is setup and plays will give us much more idea of what Chris is able to achieve, than half a season, with a flawed team, full of Parky's failures.
Powell should and will be given time and resources to rebuild
If Racon and/or Semedo go it will release money to pay new players.
All I ask is that we don't do the usual and leave it until the last week of pre-season to sign new blood. They need to play together before the season starts.
To suggest that the Parky Out brigade are overlooking CP's obvious faults and the teams results as it works against their point of view is bizarre and is just not happening.
So what if he's cut a bit more slack than another manager would get, he's earned it hasn't he and after having several managers that have divided the support recently isn't it a good idea to have someone we can ALL back?
I don't want to think it's true and really hope I'm reading too much into some posts but there's the appearance from the Parky In brigade that they're are almost happy to have been proved right by our season falling apart. Tell me THAT aint so please!
Bing would be interested to see the quotes tipping CP for greatness. As I wrote elsewhere, we all want CP to succeed, but to say that he has not had time is pushing it in the the context of football. i doubt if he would have survived anywhere else either with the board or the fans players(edited). I hope that he will be with us this time next year, but results apart there is nothing that he has done so far that convinces me that he will bring great things to us.
I just hope you are right and i am wrong, but for me CP to succeed is more hope than expectation.
Bournemouth that ain't so. Parky is now irrelevant like him or hate him he is gone and half the team, almost, that played under Powell were not chosen by parky. My comments are based on what I see of Powell, the manager not a former player. And I do not expect anyone to be cut a bit more slack, Curbs, Parkinson, Pardew, Dowie, Kinsella - who certainly was not cut slack and was as much a legend, or Powell
I don;t see a single bit of relevence mentioning Parky in any of this.
Its a straight forward question for Slater and Jimmy. Have you seen enough in Powell to have confidence he could lead a squad to promotion next season ? They are the only opinions that matter as they will have a better gauge than just what we have seen on matchdays and in interviews.
Personally, i have serious doubts. To me it has emphasised the point that he is a player's person and not a lead man. I also think he fudged up his support team. All in, i'm not too confident that we will be seeing bright things next season if the current scenario remains, and it could get worse if my suspicion that our manager will not be the main driver on what players are brought in turns out to be true.
I'm not seeing the full picture though, so my opinion counts for jack.
We need to build a team playing good football or how else will we survive in the Championship if we are promoted? I can see Brighton doing very well up there next season and certainly their style of football this season was by no means Leaque 1 style of hoofing up front.
Agree 100% with AFKA, the Parkinson era is irrelevant now and that argument is redundant.
What we can say is that Powell has massively under-achieved as manager, his points per game ratio in his half-season in charge would have got us relegated if it was played out over 46 league games - that is a plain and simple fact.
I don't like the thought of sacking him but nothing really gives me confidence about his reign so far.
We are about to discover what kind of management team we have - both in the dug-out and in the board room.
I've been encouraged that money was spent to bring in BWP, Stewart, Sullivan and Bessone but there's a limit on how much you can spend and what sort of players will come to the club. Like many I'd happily like Stewart to sign a FT contract, but realistically he can do much better, not just earnings wise and play at a better level than Charlton. Players like that might stay if the deal is right - but could end up soaking up too much of the budget.
As for CP - the football we were playing under him was better than under Parky, from what I saw we were trying to keep the ball on the deck a bit more and pass and move, but the results didn't go our way. I hope he's given the opportunity to create his own squad and has some money to spend and that he's given some time next season to put it into practice. If he does go - who replaces him? We all want a strong manager with experience, but like signing good players, you most likely will have to spend good money on bringing a manager in, presumably from a CCC club.
We need to have yet another end-of-season clear out and yet another squad building summer. I wouldn't expect much until the play-offs are over and the players are back from their holidays, but in a month we'll know whether the board are going to back CP or expect him, like Parky, to fish around for lower league players who might be capable of stepping up or signing players out of contract elsewhere. If it's the latter we'll have another season of good and bad results.
Of course I didn't want to be 'proved right' and have our season fall apart. What a ridiculous thing to say. I don't think anyone spending absolute fortunes of their hard earned on what has quite frankly been rubbish for X amount of months (possibly years with some notable exceptions) would be so bitter to subscribe to that.
It's great to have a manager that stands up and shows some fight for his players but I think CP's run-ins with the FA will have to have a quite spell from here on in. Discipline on and off the pitch has been (another) particular worry this season.
masicatWROTE:Most people are backing Powell out of sheer embarrassment, they are the 'Parkinson Out' brigade. I loved the man as a player, but to give him Parkinsons job was a joke. This is a business, and there is no room for emotion. I wasn't surprised Parkinson went, but I thought we might bring in some experience. To give someone their first crack at management because he used to play for us was a poor business decision. ( IT WAS, THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN, NOT UP FOR DEBATE ).The 'Parkinson out' brigade hailed Powell's arrival almost to a man. I think we would have been in the Championship had we stuck with Parkinson. I wasn't his biggest fan, but he knew the league and he was getting some good results. Adding BWP may well have sealed the deal. Powell will only get 7-10 games next season, I hope he knows what he is doing as nothing he has done so far can convince me otherwise. This has been the worst season ever, and I am afraid CP hasn't helped.
Speak for yourself mate. Most people are NOT backing CP out of enbarrasement. I'm backing him cos i believe he's the right man for the job. Perhaps you would like a revolving door put in the managers office?.
Frankly, i was very dissapointed with Powell's appointment. If they are shrewd and sharp operators then its amazing they gave the job to somebody who will basically be cutting his teeth. Post Lawrence, they gave it to Curbs and Gritt because we were potless. It's confusing because the rumours are that we are going to spend big and they want to go up as champions. Maybe they thought Eddie Howe was in the bag and panicked when he turned us down? Oh well - lets hope they get the next one right because its all about getting a good manager.
Bedsaddick - can you see the irony? Had we stuck with Parkinson it would be one less Manager, not a revolving door. Why do you think he's the right man? seriously, why? i suspect because you like him..............
Masicat - Let me tell you why I think he's the right man, Played the game for 20+ years as a pro under some very talented managers, was a full England international, had Sven as his coaching mentor at Leicester, was a good communicator and man manager as Charman of the PFA and knows the Charlton set up and what the fans expect of their team. Good enough for you? Oh and by the way your comment 'Most people are backing Powell out of sheer embarrassment, they are the 'Parkinson Out' brigade' is bol__xs. Good for you if you dont boo but if I think they have played total crap and desrve it they get it.
Parky's time was up - after the abject surrender against Swindon (which followed a series of poor results) it was clear that he could no longer inspire, drive and motivate the team. It wasn't his fault, the hotch-potch of free signings, cast-offs and kids were the consequence of a lack of money and all things considered he didn't do a bad job. CP though has to be given a decent run at the job. There's no point in swapping managers unless they quite clearly don't have what it takes to succeed. What CP knows now is that success as a manager is about hard work on and off the training pitch, and this last few months will have taught him a lesson about the realities of the job, and I think he's the type who'll learn from experience. I also think he's the type to put the hours and graft in to achieve that success, so right now I think he's the right man for the job.
What we do know is that our new owners are wealthy but will still try and achieve organic success without breaking the bank. That means having the right character and personality on board is paramount, someone who knows the club and who can grow with the job. Let's give him the summer and hopefully he'll get some money to build a team and squad in his image. Then we form a decision on whether he can go on from this experience or whether he's not simply suited to managing and is maybe better off as a coach. Until then let's give him some slack and support him.
Yes I do like him but that's not the reason I back him. Success at Charlton has always been Built on stability and I genuinely feel that once Powell has his own team we will get promoted. Getting rid of him now solves nothing. It's alright saying we did better under Parky but look at the football we had to endure . At least since CP had been in charge we have tried to play football . Sure it's failed but that's down to Parkinsons failure to bring in a good players ( Francis , McCormack , Docherty , Abbot etc..) I know he's hand were tied by finances but still , they are substandard players aren't they?.
Because of the stupid transfer window Powell has not been able to bring in anyone permenently except BWP and the loan signing he's brought in have been good . Because if that I'm sure will have a very very strong side next season and I'm totally confident CP is the man to take us up.
Get behind him like the Norwich and Saints fans got behind their sides in the last 12 months and it could be exciting times at The Valley. Not getting behind Powell will only lead to one thing and that's third division obscurity and you don't want any more of that do you?
Deadred I hope you are right, but I don't see that you have made the most solid of arguments:-
- Bobby Charlton played under good managers, was a great footballer, was a world cup winner and failed at Preston.
- Just because he was a good coach at Leicester being mentored by Sven does not make him a good manager, as CP said its a very different job.
- As Chair of PFA he did a lot of good work, but there is no evidence that the role has any effect on his ability to manage a football club positively or negatively except it may help him generate contacts. Certainly if he had man management responsibility it is likely to have been administrative staff rather than footballers.
I don't believe people are backing Powell out of embarrassment, but some are out of hope and others such as I believe your self out of belief,but no one is hoping for failure as some were with other managers and some players.
If Powell is sacked this summer I will not put another penny to the Club's coffers until the current board have left the building. It would be outrageous, unjust, myopic and open our club to even more ridicule.
Having said that it is clearly utter nonsense from the papers.
Let's say t'board do sack CP, who are they going to get in? The only rumour in that department doing the rounds is John Still, who is 61 and has just been relegated with D&R. So that's a total non-starter in terms of enthusing the fans and persuading us to buy season tickets.
I can't see a decent currently employed, successful and ambitious manager leaving his job and coming to Charlton unless we have serious money to spend (serious for L1 level that is). Managers very rarely drop divisions, ok Nigel Adkins left the bright lights of Scunthorpe for Southampton, but he'd taken Scunthorpe as far as they could go and the wisdom of swapping jobs will be that next season he'll be in the CCC while Scunthorpe will be on our radar as opponents. And if we do have money to spend then I think we'd be seeing evidence of it already. Michael Stewart for one is affordable at our level and would effectively be a free transfer. Why has the club not got him signed up? No transfer fee and we could easily meet his wage demands after all he's been at the club for the last couple of months and is looking for a club. That suggests to me that our transfer pot isn't going to be that vast and therefore no decent manager is going to leave a CCC club to manage Charlton.
Getting rid of Powell after just four months will make us look like the biggest shower of plonkers in the league. History will be kind to Parky, he steadied the ship and kept it afloat - but it was clear that the team he handed on to Powell simply wasn't good enough.
We can waffle on about transfer budgets and wage budgets and compare them to other clubs, but the fact is that our sides have lacked characters and mental strength, and have done for a very long time. We desperately lack leaders in the team, and still seem to be carrying too many junior primadonnas who think they've made it just because they get to put on a pair of football boots for a living and get to swan about a big stadium and a nice training ground.
Whether or not we have a budget of £400k, £4m or £14m, it's not good enough if we just keep on buying more timewasters and time-servers. And it won't send out the right message if we fire a rookie manager after four months for struggling with a team full of twats who can't be arsed. *This* is now the time for Powell and the board to prove themselves - to clear the stable out and start again. The board's already allied itself to Powell - time to let them get to work. We should worry about Powell if it all goes wrong when next season starts, not as this mess of a campaign ends.
Powell has no excuses from now on. He has a full pre season to bring in the players he wants (If the board give him the funds) and put in place the system he wants to play. To say i've not been impressed is a under statement, however i'm prepared to give him till the beginining of November to prove that we are a top two side.
Comments
@bingaddick is spot on.
To suggest that the Parky Out brigade are overlooking CP's obvious faults and the teams results as it works against their point of view is bizarre and is just not happening.
So what if he's cut a bit more slack than another manager would get, he's earned it hasn't he and after having several managers that have divided the support recently isn't it a good idea to have someone we can ALL back?
I don't want to think it's true and really hope I'm reading too much into some posts but there's the appearance from the Parky In brigade that they're are almost happy to have been proved right by our season falling apart. Tell me THAT aint so please!
I don;t see a single bit of relevence mentioning Parky in any of this.
Its a straight forward question for Slater and Jimmy. Have you seen enough in Powell to have confidence he could lead a squad to promotion next season ? They are the only opinions that matter as they will have a better gauge than just what we have seen on matchdays and in interviews.
Personally, i have serious doubts. To me it has emphasised the point that he is a player's person and not a lead man. I also think he fudged up his support team. All in, i'm not too confident that we will be seeing bright things next season if the current scenario remains, and it could get worse if my suspicion that our manager will not be the main driver on what players are brought in turns out to be true.
I'm not seeing the full picture though, so my opinion counts for jack.
We need to build a team playing good football or how else will we survive in the Championship if we are promoted? I can see Brighton doing very well up there next season and certainly their style of football this season was by no means Leaque 1 style of hoofing up front.
Agree 100% with AFKA, the Parkinson era is irrelevant now and that argument is redundant.
What we can say is that Powell has massively under-achieved as manager, his points per game ratio in his half-season in charge would have got us relegated if it was played out over 46 league games - that is a plain and simple fact.
I don't like the thought of sacking him but nothing really gives me confidence about his reign so far.
We are about to discover what kind of management team we have - both in the dug-out and in the board room.
I've been encouraged that money was spent to bring in BWP, Stewart, Sullivan and Bessone but there's a limit on how much you can spend and what sort of players will come to the club. Like many I'd happily like Stewart to sign a FT contract, but realistically he can do much better, not just earnings wise and play at a better level than Charlton. Players like that might stay if the deal is right - but could end up soaking up too much of the budget.
As for CP - the football we were playing under him was better than under Parky, from what I saw we were trying to keep the ball on the deck a bit more and pass and move, but the results didn't go our way. I hope he's given the opportunity to create his own squad and has some money to spend and that he's given some time next season to put it into practice. If he does go - who replaces him? We all want a strong manager with experience, but like signing good players, you most likely will have to spend good money on bringing a manager in, presumably from a CCC club.
We need to have yet another end-of-season clear out and yet another squad building summer. I wouldn't expect much until the play-offs are over and the players are back from their holidays, but in a month we'll know whether the board are going to back CP or expect him, like Parky, to fish around for lower league players who might be capable of stepping up or signing players out of contract elsewhere. If it's the latter we'll have another season of good and bad results.
Havent seen any clubs rushing to sign Parky as manager.
Arsene gave him a scouting job for advising Jenkinson to sign for them.
@masicat...
Parky's time was up - after the abject surrender against Swindon (which followed a series of poor results) it was clear that he could no longer inspire, drive and motivate the team. It wasn't his fault, the hotch-potch of free signings, cast-offs and kids were the consequence of a lack of money and all things considered he didn't do a bad job. CP though has to be given a decent run at the job. There's no point in swapping managers unless they quite clearly don't have what it takes to succeed. What CP knows now is that success as a manager is about hard work on and off the training pitch, and this last few months will have taught him a lesson about the realities of the job, and I think he's the type who'll learn from experience. I also think he's the type to put the hours and graft in to achieve that success, so right now I think he's the right man for the job.
What we do know is that our new owners are wealthy but will still try and achieve organic success without breaking the bank. That means having the right character and personality on board is paramount, someone who knows the club and who can grow with the job. Let's give him the summer and hopefully he'll get some money to build a team and squad in his image. Then we form a decision on whether he can go on from this experience or whether he's not simply suited to managing and is maybe better off as a coach. Until then let's give him some slack and support him.
Built on stability and I genuinely feel that once Powell has his own team we will get promoted.
Getting rid of him now solves nothing.
It's alright saying we did better under Parky but look at the football we had to endure . At least since CP had been in charge we have tried to play football . Sure it's failed but that's down to Parkinsons failure to bring in a good players ( Francis , McCormack , Docherty , Abbot etc..) I know he's hand were tied by finances but still , they are substandard players aren't they?.
Because of the stupid transfer window Powell has not been able to bring in anyone permenently except BWP and the loan signing he's brought in have been good .
Because if that I'm sure will have a very very strong side next season and I'm totally confident CP is the man to take us up.
Get behind him like the Norwich and Saints fans got behind their sides in the last 12 months and it could be exciting times at The Valley.
Not getting behind Powell will only lead to one thing and that's third division obscurity and you don't want any more of that do you?
It would be outrageous, unjust, myopic and open our club to even more ridicule.
Having said that it is clearly utter nonsense from the papers.
Let's say t'board do sack CP, who are they going to get in? The only rumour in that department doing the rounds is John Still, who is 61 and has just been relegated with D&R. So that's a total non-starter in terms of enthusing the fans and persuading us to buy season tickets.
I can't see a decent currently employed, successful and ambitious manager leaving his job and coming to Charlton unless we have serious money to spend (serious for L1 level that is). Managers very rarely drop divisions, ok Nigel Adkins left the bright lights of Scunthorpe for Southampton, but he'd taken Scunthorpe as far as they could go and the wisdom of swapping jobs will be that next season he'll be in the CCC while Scunthorpe will be on our radar as opponents. And if we do have money to spend then I think we'd be seeing evidence of it already. Michael Stewart for one is affordable at our level and would effectively be a free transfer. Why has the club not got him signed up? No transfer fee and we could easily meet his wage demands after all he's been at the club for the last couple of months and is looking for a club. That suggests to me that our transfer pot isn't going to be that vast and therefore no decent manager is going to leave a CCC club to manage Charlton.
Powell has no excuses from now on. He has a full pre season to bring in the players he wants (If the board give him the funds) and put in place the system he wants to play. To say i've not been impressed is a under statement, however i'm prepared to give him till the beginining of November to prove that we are a top two side.