I voted "No" as I accept that it is the perogative, right and the reality for those who "own" a football club to decide. Sad as it is the fans have little or no ownership (apart from the few cases where they have done so with smaller clubs) of the professional clubs within our game. We are an important part of the football club, and we at Charlton have been fortunate in the past to have played a much larger part in influencing the direction of our club, than the majority of fans who support other clubs. As a direct result of this we were able to build the "TRUST" that has existed between owner & fans since the darkest days of Selhurst and Upton Park. That trust has to continue to work both ways and I don't believe another 17 days is going to destroy that. We have had two very good and successful (in the fans eyes) eras of ownership, the spectacular Albert Gliksten era and the Alwen/Norris/Murray/Simons et al ....................................... Let's trust that the 3rd era is our Christmas present this year and that the dialog between owners and fans continues and we can in some shape or form influence the future success of Charlton Athletic Football Club.
The way I see it, we fans do not have the automatic 'right' to know, if the buyers want their identity kept secret, then it is their right to do so. However would it make me and many other fans happier (and more comfortable) if we knew a little more? Yes, definitely. It's up to them now, but I hope we are kept updated.
[quote][cite]Posted By: boogica[/cite]i dont think Richard murray would sell the club if it wasnt in charltons best interests so whoever takes over the i do believe will look to take us forward ,so idont think people should worry.[/quote]
But a few minutes earlier you also said: "i definately think its wise and jimenez + other people "
If I thought it was Wise & Jiminez I'd be worried for our club and about the judgement of Richard Murray & Peter Varney.
Unfortunately, "no" is the right answer, because we gave up the right to "yes". We gave it up because -
- most of us who had shares (including me) sold them when the club went private - we meekly allowed the fans director position to disappear - we totally ignored the suggestions to set up a Supporters Trust (even the Nigels have one)
I think we have to acknowledge this, and I'm as guilty as anyone else. All we can do is hope.
However if the buyers were a bad bunch we'd have had smoke signals by now. We had them loud and clear in the Sebastian Sainsbury thing a few weeks ago.
[cite]Posted By: boogica[/cite]i dont think Richard murray would sell the club if it wasnt in charltons best interests so whoever takes over the i do believe will look to take us forward ,so idont think people should worry.
But a few minutes earlier you also said: "i definately think its wise and jimenez + other
people "
If I thought it was Wise & Jiminez I'd be worried for our club and about the judgement of Richard Murray & Peter Varney.
look everyone wants to know who it is , so i done my own digging about i asked someone who knows 1 of the 2 mentioned and when they asked the question we all want to know they didnt exactly so no and they didnt say yes ,so like everyone else i would like to know ,when i said definately them i was joking but i think there might be some truth in it .
jimenez has middle east connections so maybe it is something to do with him?
[cite]Posted By: PragueAddick[/cite]
However if the buyers were a bad bunch we'd have had smoke signals by now. We had them loud and clear in the Sebastian Sainsbury thing a few weeks ago.
good post prague
I have been reading this all day and i voted no to the question and i based my decision on excactly that thought.
I know he has had his detractors and i know there are not as many people as supportive of muzza but the one thing that i am sure of with very little evidence is that if he wanted to
a) get shot of us as a bad thing he couldve done so easily by now
b) he couldve taken a quick maybe lower return on us by just selling out to the quickest interest
c) we may have lost the fans director but i feel we have adequate fans interest on the board with some of the current guys
so with those 3 key factors i believe that Muzza and the good guys have snubbed interest that may not have been in the football clubs best interest and this deal i believe in whatever form it appears cwill in the long run be the best deal that was on offer it may not be the most cash that was available or offered( but not varified)
i may be wrong but our complancenty has attributed to this situation a lot has gone on imo where perhaps more diect action shouldve been instigated by the fans 2 relegations was an unforgivable situation and 1 we took far too lightly and the fact that we stuck with pardew and imo parky after what happend was scandelous.(thats not a parky dig and it shouldnt be seen as one it was a statement of something that i thought at the time and not for debate)
they have my trust still and for that reason i am willing to take this one last leap of faith who knows it could be the best thing to happen to us since dec 5th 1992
Just been thinking about this and I'm sorry if somebody else has mentioned it earlier but surely the club can at least give us some partial information. I'd be happy to know that we are being taken over by 'very wealthy businessmen' or 'wealthy consortium'. That will do me for now. Basically, are they bloody loaded or not?
[cite]Posted By: PragueAddick[/cite]Unfortunately, "no" is the right answer, because we gave up the right to "yes". We gave it up because -
- most of us who had shares (including me) sold them when the club went private
- we meekly allowed the fans director position to disappear
- we totally ignored the suggestions to set up a Supporters Trust (even the Nigels have one)
I think we have to acknowledge this, and I'm as guilty as anyone else. All we can do is hope.
However if the buyers were a bad bunch we'd have had smoke signals by now. We had them loud and clear in the Sebastian Sainsbury thing a few weeks ago.
[cite]Posted By: PragueAddick[/cite]Unfortunately, "no" is the right answer, because we gave up the right to "yes". We gave it up because -
- most of us who had shares (including me) sold them when the club went private
- we meekly allowed the fans director position to disappear
- we totally ignored the suggestions to set up a Supporters Trust (even the Nigels have one)
I think we have to acknowledge this, and I'm as guilty as anyone else. All we can do is hope.
However if the buyers were a bad bunch we'd have had smoke signals by now. We had them loud and clear in the Sebastian Sainsbury thing a few weeks ago.
This.
This, as well. I voted no. Let's just sit tight and wait and see what happens. It's gonna be a long few weeks.
I voted No. It's like your neighbour moving, you don't know what the new people are like until they have moved in.
If my shares where still worth something, then I might have said yes.
would any real fan stop going or supporting Charlton because of any possible new owners - No
Why do we need to know? To put our mind at rest? - I'm intreguided as much as the next fan but in all honesty its out of my/our control so why worry about it, as long as there's CAFC I will be supporting them.
[cite]Posted By: Swisdom[/cite]Wise was in the seat behind me vs Yeovil and was analysing our performance in a lot of detail.
As much as I don't want him to be a part of it this was definitely more than a casual scouting of a couple of players
I don't know why he was there, but he could have been scouting us for another team who are playing us soon.
Or he could be involved in a consortium trying to buy the club. Doesn't mean he's necessarily part of Peter Varney's group, we know there has been interest from various people in the last few years.
[cite]Posted By: Red_in_SE8[/cite]I am struggling to reconcile the 'we are not important', 'it has nothing to do with us because we are just fans', 'we have no right to know' tone on this thread with the 'Fan Power' that was instrumental in getting us back to the Valley 18 years ago!
Like the majority of posters I voted "no" because we simply do not have a right to know.
If my source is correct then I know the "scale" of the investors (big) but I do not know their identity, but like the rest of us I would like to know right now!
However, like many on here, I also trust RM and PV, so am happy to wait with my fingers crossed.
Henry makes some good points that the new owners should come out with some basic principles to demonstrate how they intend to run our club; the "Charlton Way" if you like. Modern companies would talk about "values" and "culture".
I work for a fantastic Aussie company which is very good at promoting the right values and behaviours, which is one of its key strengths. If Charlton could do the same once under new ownership I would be very happy.
Over the "Chappell years" Airman often hinted that things were very wrong organisationally. Whilst what happens on the pitch is the most important thing, in my opinion it is no coincidence that we struggled during that time.
The new owners will need to get simple things like reporting lines and accountabilities clear and effective. Sorry to fall into "company-speak" but when you see this stuff done well, then you know how important it is. Cheers.
Apologies to anyone who has already made this point, but whilst i feel that the parties in question have every right to keep it secret, I can't see how it is in the buyers interest to do so.
As their future customers surely it's in the (soon to be?) new owners best interest to try and measure fans opinions of them, for our future patronage (or not) might depend on their identity. If they thought that a lot of us wouldn't support them then they might think twice about buying, which if we weren't happy about them, not buying would be in the best interests of both parties (although not the seller perhaps!). I know that it was Zabeel who insisted on their name being announced as possible owners and not Richard Murray and his pals, I would assume for the reason described. Perhaps this time it is RM that has insisted on the secrecy - I'm just a little suspicious as to why.
Murray can sell to whom he wants. We could chose, if we wanted, to restart the club aka AFC Wombles/FC Manch. I can't believe it will come down to that. I trust Murray and am sure he will do us proud.
As fans we all want to know who is going to potentially own us. You have to believe though RM would not sell us off to anyone he wasn't 100% sure would help to bring CAFC back to a higher league.
Personally i think we will be in for a shock when we do eventually find out who the purchaser is. However the most important thing is to keep the squad grounded, let them finish what they have started this year before we start over investing in the squad.
I am quietly confident the investor, be it an individual, company or governmental asset fund will have substantial funds but will not invest heavily like Man city but will take a more modest approach.
I would not be looking at the gulf region for this but a lot further east.
Comments
Here it is - "We have not been told name of investors. We've got further story in tomorrow's paper with an update on #cafc takeover."
Has anyone on got today's paper?
But a few minutes earlier you also said: "i definately think its wise and jimenez + other people "
If I thought it was Wise & Jiminez I'd be worried for our club and about the judgement of Richard Murray & Peter Varney.
- most of us who had shares (including me) sold them when the club went private
- we meekly allowed the fans director position to disappear
- we totally ignored the suggestions to set up a Supporters Trust (even the Nigels have one)
I think we have to acknowledge this, and I'm as guilty as anyone else. All we can do is hope.
However if the buyers were a bad bunch we'd have had smoke signals by now. We had them loud and clear in the Sebastian Sainsbury thing a few weeks ago.
look everyone wants to know who it is , so i done my own digging about i asked someone who knows 1 of the 2 mentioned and when they asked the question we all want to know they didnt exactly so no and they didnt say yes ,so like everyone else i would like to know ,when i said definately them i was joking but i think there might be some truth in it .
jimenez has middle east connections so maybe it is something to do with him?
good post prague
I have been reading this all day and i voted no to the question and i based my decision on excactly that thought.
I know he has had his detractors and i know there are not as many people as supportive of muzza but the one thing that i am sure of with very little evidence is that if he wanted to
a) get shot of us as a bad thing he couldve done so easily by now
b) he couldve taken a quick maybe lower return on us by just selling out to the quickest interest
c) we may have lost the fans director but i feel we have adequate fans interest on the board with some of the current guys
so with those 3 key factors i believe that Muzza and the good guys have snubbed interest that may not have been in the football clubs best interest and this deal i believe in whatever form it appears cwill in the long run be the best deal that was on offer it may not be the most cash that was available or offered( but not varified)
i may be wrong but our complancenty has attributed to this situation a lot has gone on imo where perhaps more diect action shouldve been instigated by the fans 2 relegations was an unforgivable situation and 1 we took far too lightly and the fact that we stuck with pardew and imo parky after what happend was scandelous.(thats not a parky dig and it shouldnt be seen as one it was a statement of something that i thought at the time and not for debate)
they have my trust still and for that reason i am willing to take this one last leap of faith who knows it could be the best thing to happen to us since dec 5th 1992
This.
This, as well. I voted no. Let's just sit tight and wait and see what happens. It's gonna be a long few weeks.
If my shares where still worth something, then I might have said yes.
As much as I don't want him to be a part of it this was definitely more than a casual scouting of a couple of players
Why do we need to know? To put our mind at rest? - I'm intreguided as much as the next fan but in all honesty its out of my/our control so why worry about it, as long as there's CAFC I will be supporting them.
Or he could be involved in a consortium trying to buy the club. Doesn't mean he's necessarily part of Peter Varney's group, we know there has been interest from various people in the last few years.
Overall I really put a lot of trust in RM and sure he would always do the correct move.
Then we had our share certificates torn up.
One man controls the entire club and can do what he wants, and tell who he wants.
We didn't vote for this scenario - we allowed it to happen.
It will be no use crying in a few weeks time if anyone doesn't like the identity of the new owner(s).
My feelings exactly.
I'm now a customer and not a stakeholder.
Anyone want to buy some old share certificates?
If my source is correct then I know the "scale" of the investors (big) but I do not know their identity, but like the rest of us I would like to know right now!
However, like many on here, I also trust RM and PV, so am happy to wait with my fingers crossed.
Henry makes some good points that the new owners should come out with some basic principles to demonstrate how they intend to run our club; the "Charlton Way" if you like. Modern companies would talk about "values" and "culture".
I work for a fantastic Aussie company which is very good at promoting the right values and behaviours, which is one of its key strengths. If Charlton could do the same once under new ownership I would be very happy.
Over the "Chappell years" Airman often hinted that things were very wrong organisationally. Whilst what happens on the pitch is the most important thing, in my opinion it is no coincidence that we struggled during that time.
The new owners will need to get simple things like reporting lines and accountabilities clear and effective. Sorry to fall into "company-speak" but when you see this stuff done well, then you know how important it is. Cheers.
Getting a bit nervous with all the Dennis Wise references knocking about though TBH!
Apologies to anyone who has already made this point, but whilst i feel that the parties in question have every right to keep it secret, I can't see how it is in the buyers interest to do so.
As their future customers surely it's in the (soon to be?) new owners best interest to try and measure fans opinions of them, for our future patronage (or not) might depend on their identity. If they thought that a lot of us wouldn't support them then they might think twice about buying, which if we weren't happy about them, not buying would be in the best interests of both parties (although not the seller perhaps!). I know that it was Zabeel who insisted on their name being announced as possible owners and not Richard Murray and his pals, I would assume for the reason described. Perhaps this time it is RM that has insisted on the secrecy - I'm just a little suspicious as to why.
I like the sound of that!
Personally i think we will be in for a shock when we do eventually find out who the purchaser is. However the most important thing is to keep the squad grounded, let them finish what they have started this year before we start over investing in the squad.
I am quietly confident the investor, be it an individual, company or governmental asset fund will have substantial funds but will not invest heavily like Man city but will take a more modest approach.
I would not be looking at the gulf region for this but a lot further east.