I voted yes. Fans are not just customers. We are as important as any other stake holder. We have every right to know who the potential new owners are. If we are not told then at least we should be told the reason why their identity cannot be disclosed yet. Otherwise it looks suspiciously like they don't want the fans to know until the deal is done because they expect a negative response from the fans which might jeopadise the deal.
On the question of why RM made the anouncement in the first place if he was not willing to tell us who the buyers are; I might be wrong but I thought Newshopper released the news first and that forced RM to make the anouncement on the OS. Obviously this is pure speculation on my part.
EDIT: I just searched for the newshopper post I thought I saw at the time, which had a date/timeline of early Thursday morning, but can't find it now!
I'm so desperate to know more that I voted yes before reading the other posts. Having read them, I agree with the majority and because I trust both RM and PV, I'm sure they have their reasons to be discreet.
the reason I really voted yes is because I don't understand why it was announced that a deal had been agreed but not with whom. That leads me to think it is with a party with whom we won't be totally happy ie Wise & Co. I would much rather RM had said nothing and then just announced it when it had actually happened. What exactly has been gained from the announcement made ?
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]the reason I really voted yes is because I don't understand why it was announced that a deal had been agreed but not with whom. That leads me to think it is with a party with whom we won't be totally happy ie Wise & Co. I would much rather RM had said nothing and then just announced it when it had actually happened. What exactly has been gained from the announcement made ?
If the Buyer wishes to remain anonymous that is fine with me, we the fans are the lifeblood of the club but do we have any rights, well no not really, apart from the right not to turn up if we decide we don't like the new owner. I am glad it is shrouded in secrecy it's the successful charlton way of old. I think we need to be able to trust the lIkes of Richard Murray & Peter Varney that they do have the best interests of CAFC at heart & this deal is the best one that could be secured before the un-thinkable happened.
Patience is a virtue.
What they said.
But I am excited in a build up to Christmas (and the announcement) for the first time in many years
What he said
I am itching to know but acknowledge that this is how we did things under Murray / Varney and this was pretty successful back then.
I'm surprised there hasn't been a leak of any sort though - this could be one of two things imo. 1 - Foreigners who want anonymity or 2 - It's someone "unpopular" (Wise and chums)
I voted yes, probably because I saw my shareholding evaporate earlier this year, and I figure I want to know more about the financial machinations because of that.
[quote][cite]Posted By: carly burn[/cite][quote aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0][cite aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]Posted By: WhenIwasLittleBoy[/cite]Voted No.We have to trust both Murray and Varney on this. I cannot see Murray selling too a bunch a wide boys[/quote]
I take it you think Murray is not using the same techniques he used in the past when appointing previous managers.[/quote]
At the time then Carly you was againest the appointment of Pardew? Think of what the club had achieved in terms of our fan base, and league status. Trust the guy, he has done more for this club than most. When there is a takeover in the process regardless if it is a football club or any other business nothing can be revealed by either party until things are signed, neither to the general public or its employees, our company has made several buy outs over the last few years and although it is apparent something is going on there is still the due dilligance, in which then the buyer may start to negotiate over the price should they find something within the accounts that they are not totally comfortable with. Dont be suprised if it goes over the 24th as well
Voted no because having the right to know wouldn't give any real power to fans, we haven't got a collective voice to make any sensible contribution even if we had the information to take an informed position. Little short of mass violence would be likely to deter a buyer. No choice really but happy to trust our owners who I imagine are not seeking to do other than the best for the club.
I am struggling to reconcile the 'we are not important', 'it has nothing to do with us because we are just fans', 'we have no right to know' tone on this thread with the 'Fan Power' that was instrumental in getting us back to the Valley 18 years ago!
I voted no because that in effect is a fact. If the prospective new owners wish to remain anonymous the they have that privilege. However and this I feel is crucial. This deal if it goes through will be done and dusted by the time we find out who thebes owners are. We will be delighted and heap huge praise on Peter Varney and Richard Murray for keeping things secret if and only if there is a feeling that the new owners are a force for good. Should we not feel that or opinion is hugely divided on the new owners then we are stuffed. No recourse to effective protest other than with our feet at the matches which is obviously a dreadful option. I am worried that this is so secret and if I'm honest I cannot for the life of me think why any positive deal for the club needs to be kept quite so secret. If it falls I think we are all big enough to understand that these things happen in business regardless of how disappointed we might be. I find it astonishing that this deal is being hidden from us quite as fully as it is.
I voted no because we do not have a right to know. Yes we are more than customers, the football club is the supporters, without which a club at this level could not exist, but we have no right to know. Let's look at it another way, say the club announced today one of the following:
1: Mssrs Robinson, Kinsey, Duff and Fermani, a group of local business men, were purchasing the club and they will hold a press conference to discuss their aspirations on 24th Dec. or 2. An overseas consortium backed by the media giants Batchi, Batchi & Batchi were taking over the club and will hold a press conference in due course.
Where does that get us? - no where as no prospective buyer is going discuss their purchase until that purchase is completed so as fans we are no further forward except we have some names which still don't tell us what we want to know.
So let's just sit tight and keep guessing - it' just like waiting for your Christmas present, but hope it isn't a scraf from Auntie!
I would love to know who it is like everyone, but the buyer wants to remain unknown and if that is what they want so be it. Anything that smooths the sale is good (I hope)
No, because unlike a lot of other clubs eg Newcastle, the people upstairs have the clubs best interests at heart and there is no way RM would get involved with a group/consortium who he does not honestly believe will be good for Charlton Athletic. Therefore we have to have faith in Murray and wait and see. Good things come to those who wait apparantly.
Also we do not have a right to know, despite being eager to know more. What will be, will be and there is nothing we can do. They obviously need privacy and we have to respect that until the time is right for the fans to know.
[cite]Posted By: cfgs[/cite]
Anything that smooths the sale is good (I hope)
That's exactly the point cfgs, we 'hope'. What if it isn't 'good' ?
Before i get accused of scaremongering (because that's not my intention), the indications i see personally suggest to me that on balance it will prove 'good', or if not good, then neutral, and i'm playing a bit of a devils advocate role here to generate debate.
Its turned into a really interesting dialogue. Must admit i am surprised by what the poll shows and perhaps less interaction between club and supporters is required than perhaps i think is necessary.
15-20 years ago i'm pretty sure the top strand of our Supporters Club would be having some form of awareness of the situation, maybe some form of interaction.
5-15yrs ago we would have had an elected VIP / Supporters Director in place who would be aware of the situation. Now we have nothing, no tangible and official 'in' in terms of some form of non-financially involved party knowing what is going on at the top level.
Throughout the earlier stages of those periods, the Merc and VOTV, supported by the other fanzines, would have been digging away asking the questions and trying to uncover answers. Now we effectively have nothing other than generating debate on internet message boards, which routinely get panned by those who dismiss their value.
Out of interest and purely hypothetically, would people equally feel comfortable if three months down the line we still had no knowledge of who owned the club ?
Out of interest and purely hypothetically, would people equally feel comfortable if three months down the line we still had no knowledge of who owned the club ?
I would feel far less comfortable if the ownership had not become clear by that point, although I suspect that once various bits of official paperwork have been signed it will be far harder to obscure the ownership. I am also confident that there is enough expertise on this forum (let alone the wider fanbase) to do the required digging to discover more should it become necessary.
i dont think Richard murray would sell the club if it wasnt in charltons best interests so whoever takes over the i do believe will look to take us forward ,so idont think people should worry.
I'm resisting the urge to mention the T word (the other one that isn't takeover) but all good points AFKA.
The reality is that if someone wants to buy the Club and Murray wants to sell it to them then there is little we can do to stop that sale going through.
And as we don't know the names or the intentions of those buyers who can say if we should be trying to stop a purchase or not.
Someone mentioned earlier that is was possible that we might not know the owner/s identity even after a deal was done.
Personally I wouldn't find that acceptable.
Poor and inadequte as it may sound I think fans need to try and set, or at least influence, the agenda for how the Club is run.
We do have power as "customers" and as we have proved in the past we can be a right royal pain in the arse when we organise ourselves.
I hope that we don't need to "protest" but we can set out reasonable expectations.
Here's a start. Not meant to be definitive and nothing that I think Peter Varney or Richard Murray would radically disagree with (although I haven't of course asked them).
1. That the Club is managed in such a way that it can remain financially viable despite lack of huge success on the pitch ie while still aiming from the top flight it shouldn't be "Premiership or Bust".
2. That the pricing policy of keeping tickets relatively cheap so as to maximise income through large take up rather than high individual price is retained
3. That development of the Valley continues to be part of the plans of the Club, as and when appropriate, and The Valley the seen as the first option before any move to another ground is considered
4. That the success on the pitch is sought through long term development of our academy players and building teams over seasons rather than just short term purchases of "marquee" players
5. That the current interaction between the board and fans through the supporters' groups, the Target 40k committee, the Fans Forum and elsewhere is extended and built upon
To answer AKFA's question on would I want to know 3 Months after take over if not announced, again a NO from me if the club were paying the players & still looking to improve team via investment etc. I think the questions would start to be asked as soon as the wheels started to come off promotion bandwagon or we sold rather than bought in January then people might want to know where to vent their proverbial spleen.
Comments
On the question of why RM made the anouncement in the first place if he was not willing to tell us who the buyers are; I might be wrong but I thought Newshopper released the news first and that forced RM to make the anouncement on the OS. Obviously this is pure speculation on my part.
EDIT: I just searched for the newshopper post I thought I saw at the time, which had a date/timeline of early Thursday morning, but can't find it now!
and PV, I'm sure they have their reasons to be discreet.
I take it you think Murray is not using the same techniques he used in the past when appointing previous managers.
I take it you think Murray is not using the same techniques he used in the past when appointing previous managers.[/quote]
At the time then Carly you was againest the appointment of Pardew? Think of what the club had achieved in terms of our fan base, and league status. Trust the guy, he has done more for this club than most. When there is a takeover in the process regardless if it is a football club or any other business nothing can be revealed by either party until things are signed, neither to the general public or its employees, our company has made several buy outs over the last few years and although it is apparent something is going on there is still the due dilligance, in which then the buyer may start to negotiate over the price should they find something within the accounts that they are not totally comfortable with. Dont be suprised if it goes over the 24th as well
1: Mssrs Robinson, Kinsey, Duff and Fermani, a group of local business men, were purchasing the club and they will hold a press conference to discuss their aspirations on 24th Dec.
or
2. An overseas consortium backed by the media giants Batchi, Batchi & Batchi were taking over the club and will hold a press conference in due course.
Where does that get us? - no where as no prospective buyer is going discuss their purchase until that purchase is completed so as fans we are no further forward except we have some names which still don't tell us what we want to know.
So let's just sit tight and keep guessing - it' just like waiting for your Christmas present, but hope it isn't a scraf from Auntie!
Also we do not have a right to know, despite being eager to know more. What will be, will be and there is nothing we can do. They obviously need privacy and we have to respect that until the time is right for the fans to know.
That's a very thinly-veiled reference to our new joint owners: Cliff and Hank!
That's exactly the point cfgs, we 'hope'. What if it isn't 'good' ?
Before i get accused of scaremongering (because that's not my intention), the indications i see personally suggest to me that on balance it will prove 'good', or if not good, then neutral, and i'm playing a bit of a devils advocate role here to generate debate.
Its turned into a really interesting dialogue. Must admit i am surprised by what the poll shows and perhaps less interaction between club and supporters is required than perhaps i think is necessary.
15-20 years ago i'm pretty sure the top strand of our Supporters Club would be having some form of awareness of the situation, maybe some form of interaction.
5-15yrs ago we would have had an elected VIP / Supporters Director in place who would be aware of the situation. Now we have nothing, no tangible and official 'in' in terms of some form of non-financially involved party knowing what is going on at the top level.
Throughout the earlier stages of those periods, the Merc and VOTV, supported by the other fanzines, would have been digging away asking the questions and trying to uncover answers. Now we effectively have nothing other than generating debate on internet message boards, which routinely get panned by those who dismiss their value.
Out of interest and purely hypothetically, would people equally feel comfortable if three months down the line we still had no knowledge of who owned the club ?
I would feel far less comfortable if the ownership had not become clear by that point, although I suspect that once various bits of official paperwork have been signed it will be far harder to obscure the ownership. I am also confident that there is enough expertise on this forum (let alone the wider fanbase) to do the required digging to discover more should it become necessary.
A ...........'Man of Mystery' or maybe an 'Apache'
Nah, it's Geronimo!
The reality is that if someone wants to buy the Club and Murray wants to sell it to them then there is little we can do to stop that sale going through.
And as we don't know the names or the intentions of those buyers who can say if we should be trying to stop a purchase or not.
Someone mentioned earlier that is was possible that we might not know the owner/s identity even after a deal was done.
Personally I wouldn't find that acceptable.
Poor and inadequte as it may sound I think fans need to try and set, or at least influence, the agenda for how the Club is run.
We do have power as "customers" and as we have proved in the past we can be a right royal pain in the arse when we organise ourselves.
I hope that we don't need to "protest" but we can set out reasonable expectations.
Here's a start. Not meant to be definitive and nothing that I think Peter Varney or Richard Murray would radically disagree with (although I haven't of course asked them).
1. That the Club is managed in such a way that it can remain financially viable despite lack of huge success on the pitch ie while still aiming from the top flight it shouldn't be "Premiership or Bust".
2. That the pricing policy of keeping tickets relatively cheap so as to maximise income through large take up rather than high individual price is retained
3. That development of the Valley continues to be part of the plans of the Club, as and when appropriate, and The Valley the seen as the first option before any move to another ground is considered
4. That the success on the pitch is sought through long term development of our academy players and building teams over seasons rather than just short term purchases of "marquee" players
5. That the current interaction between the board and fans through the supporters' groups, the Target 40k committee, the Fans Forum and elsewhere is extended and built upon
OK, enough from me.
No
Would we all like to know?
Of course