Those suggesting we play 3-5-2 with Reid and Martin as the wide players... are you really expecting them to spend half their time defending? The only way that formation can possibly work is with more defensively minded players on the wing - which would have to mean Jackson/Fry on the left and Solly/Francis on the right. We would get murdered if Reid and Martin played as wing backs.
Just because Exeter played it and beat us doesn't mean we should suddenly adopt it. To adopt it we would have to leave out players who we're expecting to create most of our chances. They may not be creating much at the moment, but it's our best chance of creating anything.
[cite]Posted By: dabos[/cite]Those suggesting we play 3-5-2 with Reid and Martin as the wide players... are you really expecting them to spend half their time defending? The only way that formation can possibly work is with more defensively minded players on the wing - which would have to mean Jackson/Fry on the left and Solly/Francis on the right. We would get murdered if Reid and Martin played as wing backs.
Just because Exeter played it and beat us doesn't mean we should suddenly adopt it. To adopt it we would have to leave out players who we're expecting to create most of our chances. They may not be creating much at the moment, but it's our best chance of creating anything.
I'm not suggesting we line up like that but when our midfield is fighting a losing battle like Saturday, it's worth trying the tactical change, especially when with tall full-backs you can just change the shape of the side without wasting a sub. If it doesn't work (and I don't accept your arguement above) then you swop back and try something else. Our only tactical changes seem to involve changing personnel.
No wonder there's a few jumpy fans here - a strong feeling of "here we go again". People who are calling for Abbott to be taken off after two games need to remember that if we did that every time a new player failed to perform as we would like we would have no team. Parky? Remember the circumstances he inherited. He has faced nothing but restrictions and has fought to create and maintain a team, and he got us into the playoffs last year, just missed automatic promotion. I think he's doing alright.
the OS is talking about the 'disputed penalty'. Can't see any dispute. It was nailed on.
I agree we need to give players more time to new players and give Parky the chance to find the right balance. even Luke Young was poor at first and he went on to play for England.
We did have some chances in Exeter - Martin should have buried his - but yes, two similar players in central midfield and two similar strikers. Needs to find the right position for Martin and he, Waggy and Reid are all we have for creativity. No need to panic, but we shouldn't be losing to the likes of the plucky Grecians.
[cite]Posted By: Wheresmeticket?[/cite]No wonder there's a few jumpy fans here - a strong feeling of "here we go again". People who are calling for Abbott to be taken off after two games need to remember that if we did that every time a new player failed to perform as we would like we would have no team. Parky? Remember the circumstances he inherited. He has faced nothing but restrictions and has fought to create and maintain a team, and he got us into the playoffs last year, just missed automatic promotion. I think he's doing alright.
Good post, Where'smeticket? Good user name too!
I'm sure Parky didn't want to lose Richardson, Sam, Burton, Bailey or a fast maturing Jonjo - players that were the cornerstone of his squad last season. But that's football, and to Parky's credit - he just rolled up his sleeves and got on with it. How many others who post on here show the same dedication to their job?
Apart from a mere handful remaining of last season's team, he's put together a squad of technically proficient players which, apart from Benson, has cost very little. But it's evident it's still a mish-mash of decent players rather than the finished article team. He's also had 3 key players missing matches through suspension, and the injury to Dailly he could surely do without.
For example, it's unlikely that Dailly if he'd played, would have made the rash tackle that Llera made - and no penalty would have been conceded.
Otherwise IMO the major problem with the team is lack of creativity at CM ......the backline is steady enough, the forwards are in place up front but without a service. And you take your pick from 4 hard running tricky players who can play wide.
The team is taking shape - but we're lacking that final piece of the jigsaw at CM.
[cite]Posted By: Wheresmeticket?[/cite]Otherwise IMO the major problem with the team is lack of creativity at CM ......the backline is steady enough, the forwards are in place up front but without a service. And you take your pick from 4 hard running tricky players who can play wide.
The team is taking shape - but we're lacking that final piece of the jigsaw at CM.
Can't agree that we lack creativity, with Martin and/or wingers in the side. Our current danger comes from quick counter-attacks, but if they get their two banks of four defending we get it out wide and cross or come inside. If it gets cleared it invariably goes to one of their players because most of our defence is sitting in our half, so there is no 2nd or 3rd wave of attacks to create some pressure or uncertainty in our opponents.
Maybe it's not exactly creativity, but I know what Oggy is getting at. McCormack and Semedo at times are just too similar. Jackson or Racon might turn and run with the ball, or pick out a different pass than McCormack or Semedo might. Doesn't necessarily have to be a fantastic through ball, but rather than passing it sideways to a full back a different player might turn with it and pick out a pass that starts an attack.
So far the games I've seen Semedo and McCormack have kept their passing tidy and simple. Racon can be similar, but on form he'll turn players and run with it far more. Jackson we've not yet seen in CM. Martin had a go there at home to Oldham towards the end of the game, another who might try something a bit more ambitious, a bit different, to start and attack.
[cite]Posted By: dabos[/cite]Those suggesting we play 3-5-2 with Reid and Martin as the wide players... are you really expecting them to spend half their time defending? The only way that formation can possibly work is with more defensively minded players on the wing - which would have to mean Jackson/Fry on the left and Solly/Francis on the right. We would get murdered if Reid and Martin played as wing backs.
Just because Exeter played it and beat us doesn't mean we should suddenly adopt it. To adopt it we would have to leave out players who we're expecting to create most of our chances. They may not be creating much at the moment, but it's our best chance of creating anything.
I'm not suggesting we line up like that but when our midfield is fighting a losing battle like Saturday, it's worth trying the tactical change, especially when with tall full-backs you can just change the shape of the side without wasting a sub. If it doesn't work (and I don't accept your arguement above) then you swop back and try something else. Our only tactical changes seem to involve changing personnel.
But you can't suggest a tactical change to 3-5-2 if we don't have the players on the pitch to make it work. I'm saying that 3-5-2 with Reid and Martin as wing backs would be fairly suicidal. You can't expect the centre backs to cover the wide areas, so the wing backs need to track back... then they're expected to bomb forward as well. Ashley Cole may be able to do that, but none of our players can do this.
I'm all for going 4-5-1 to mix things up, but 3-5-2 just puts too much strain on the wide players.
[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]To get out of this division (or any division) you need 1 or more of the following:
1. A 20 goal striker (Holt, Beckford, Morison)
2. A creative midfielder (Hoolahan)
3. A tight defensive unit
I know we're a work in progress and have a few injuries, but at this moment in time we don't seem to have any of those which is worrying.
1) I believe we've got strikers capable of scoring sufficient goals between them ...... but they're are not getting anywhere near the quantity let alone quality of service they need to score those goals. Why not?
2) We may well have the right player in the squad already, but the team is presently playing too deep and not set up in CM to include him.
3) In 5 matches, we've missed Semedo for 3 games, Dailly for 2 .....and had to play an inexperienced youngster in goal during the one game in which we shipped 3 goals. Despite everything, the back 4 has performed reasonably tightly - it would have been a clean sheet at Exeter except for Llera's individual last minute rash tackle. The defence is the least of my worries.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]I'm sure Parky didn't want to lose Richardson, Sam, Burton, Bailey or a fast maturing Jonjo - players that were the cornerstone of his squad last season.
If he didn't want to lose Jonjo maybe he should have played him a bit more?
I think each week whenever WSS posts this Thread up, if we lose he should re-name it :-
The Post Match OVER-REACTIONS & Views Thread.
Personally I think a 1-0 away defeat to Exeter is a p*** poor result. But some of the comments on here are well over the top & completely dismissive of our team on one performance.
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]Personally I think a 1-0 away defeat to Exeter is a p*** poor result. But some of the comments on here are well over the top & completely dismissive of our team on one performance.
It's not just on one game though, is it. 6 shots on target in 3 games.
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]Personally I think a 1-0 away defeat to Exeter is a p*** poor result. But some of the comments on here are well over the top & completely dismissive of our team on one performance.
It's not just on one game though, is it. 6 shots on target in 3 games.
does Reidy's effort that hit the corner flag not count then ?
it's not so much the result though as the performance - I wasn't at Exeter or Hudds so can't comment but I've not seen anybody who was at either match say we played well (not brilliantly just reasonably well)
one goal in two games is worrying, especially as we don't seem to have created the chances to improve upon that
I agree there is a often an overreaction after a defeat but I still remember late Sept/early Oct 08 when people were posting that we were going to be dragged into a relegation and were told to 'get a grip' by other posters - we all know who was proven to be correct on that one...
[cite]Posted By: kinveachyaddick[/cite]I agree there is a often an overreaction after a defeat but I still remember late Sept/early Oct 08 when people were posting that we were going to be dragged into a relegation and were told to 'get a grip' by other posters - we all know who was proven to be correct on that one...
Some said last November we'd end up mid table. It can work both ways.
Lets see where we are in a months time. By then we'd have played around 10 league games and have a better idea of how we'll do.
I thought I understood football until Tisdale took over at Exeter. It is interesting the formations suggested. We have been starting 3 5 2 recently but we do change around during the games and could go 4.3.3 or 4.4.1.1, which maybe towards the end of the game or in different phases of the game or passages of play. It is all about having a squad of players that can switch, and if you get stuck playing one way you can switch to another to test out the other team
At times I have struggled to understand what what we have been doing but over the last couple of seasons it has paid off
Can't believe there hasn't been no talk of the atmosphere as well, never been to a game so dead. I know there was no roof on our end but absolute zero atmosphere from either set of fans, not one song all game, was like a pre-season friendly.
[cite]Posted By: nichorob[/cite]Can't believe there hasn't been no talk of the atmosphere as well, never been to a game so dead. I know there was no roof on our end but absolute zero atmosphere from either set of fans, not one song all game, was like a pre-season friendly.
I posted this as a footnote to my post in the Player Ratings thread:
"Crowd - 4 There's more atmosphere and singing in your local dentist's waiting room.
We took nearly 700 supporters and didn't make a murmur - until the final whistle, some hurling abuse at Parkinson.
As a crowd, we've got to do better than that at games! "
I've read your points which I must of not read, glad I wasn't the only one to notice. Reminded me of Swindon away in the playoffs last season, lack of roof really makes a difference. But it just seemed like the team, noone could be bothered.
Comments
Just because Exeter played it and beat us doesn't mean we should suddenly adopt it. To adopt it we would have to leave out players who we're expecting to create most of our chances. They may not be creating much at the moment, but it's our best chance of creating anything.
I'm not suggesting we line up like that but when our midfield is fighting a losing battle like Saturday, it's worth trying the tactical change, especially when with tall full-backs you can just change the shape of the side without wasting a sub. If it doesn't work (and I don't accept your arguement above) then you swop back and try something else. Our only tactical changes seem to involve changing personnel.
I agree we need to give players more time to new players and give Parky the chance to find the right balance. even Luke Young was poor at first and he went on to play for England.
We did have some chances in Exeter - Martin should have buried his - but yes, two similar players in central midfield and two similar strikers. Needs to find the right position for Martin and he, Waggy and Reid are all we have for creativity. No need to panic, but we shouldn't be losing to the likes of the plucky Grecians.
Good post, Where'smeticket? Good user name too!
I'm sure Parky didn't want to lose Richardson, Sam, Burton, Bailey or a fast maturing Jonjo - players that were the cornerstone of his squad last season. But that's football, and to Parky's credit - he just rolled up his sleeves and got on with it. How many others who post on here show the same dedication to their job?
Apart from a mere handful remaining of last season's team, he's put together a squad of technically proficient players which, apart from Benson, has cost very little. But it's evident it's still a mish-mash of decent players rather than the finished article team. He's also had 3 key players missing matches through suspension, and the injury to Dailly he could surely do without.
For example, it's unlikely that Dailly if he'd played, would have made the rash tackle that Llera made - and no penalty would have been conceded.
Otherwise IMO the major problem with the team is lack of creativity at CM ......the backline is steady enough, the forwards are in place up front but without a service. And you take your pick from 4 hard running tricky players who can play wide.
The team is taking shape - but we're lacking that final piece of the jigsaw at CM.
So far the games I've seen Semedo and McCormack have kept their passing tidy and simple. Racon can be similar, but on form he'll turn players and run with it far more. Jackson we've not yet seen in CM. Martin had a go there at home to Oldham towards the end of the game, another who might try something a bit more ambitious, a bit different, to start and attack.
1. A 20 goal striker (Holt, Beckford, Morison)
2. A creative midfielder (Hoolahan)
3. A tight defensive unit
I know we're a work in progress and have a few injuries, but at this moment in time we don't seem to have any of those which is worrying.
But you can't suggest a tactical change to 3-5-2 if we don't have the players on the pitch to make it work. I'm saying that 3-5-2 with Reid and Martin as wing backs would be fairly suicidal. You can't expect the centre backs to cover the wide areas, so the wing backs need to track back... then they're expected to bomb forward as well. Ashley Cole may be able to do that, but none of our players can do this.
I'm all for going 4-5-1 to mix things up, but 3-5-2 just puts too much strain on the wide players.
1) I believe we've got strikers capable of scoring sufficient goals between them ...... but they're are not getting anywhere near the quantity let alone quality of service they need to score those goals. Why not?
2) We may well have the right player in the squad already, but the team is presently playing too deep and not set up in CM to include him.
3) In 5 matches, we've missed Semedo for 3 games, Dailly for 2 .....and had to play an inexperienced youngster in goal during the one game in which we shipped 3 goals. Despite everything, the back 4 has performed reasonably tightly - it would have been a clean sheet at Exeter except for Llera's individual last minute rash tackle. The defence is the least of my worries.
If he didn't want to lose Jonjo maybe he should have played him a bit more?
Imagine Jonjo now in CM alongside Semedo. The missing link.
The Post Match OVER-REACTIONS & Views Thread.
Personally I think a 1-0 away defeat to Exeter is a p*** poor result. But some of the comments on here are well over the top & completely dismissive of our team on one performance.
It's not just on one game though, is it. 6 shots on target in 3 games.
does Reidy's effort that hit the corner flag not count then ?
one goal in two games is worrying, especially as we don't seem to have created the chances to improve upon that
I agree there is a often an overreaction after a defeat but I still remember late Sept/early Oct 08 when people were posting that we were going to be dragged into a relegation and were told to 'get a grip' by other posters - we all know who was proven to be correct on that one...
Probably doesnt bode well
Lets see where we are in a months time. By then we'd have played around 10 league games and have a better idea of how we'll do.
At times I have struggled to understand what what we have been doing but over the last couple of seasons it has paid off
scroll up to the first post on this page mate
"Crowd - 4 There's more atmosphere and singing in your local dentist's waiting room.
We took nearly 700 supporters and didn't make a murmur - until the final whistle, some hurling abuse at Parkinson.
As a crowd, we've got to do better than that at games! "