This to me seems a farce andd would never have stood up in a court of law. The evidence is basically what Evra has said before. On this basis stopping somebody working for 20% of their working year seems unbelievable. It will almost certainly stop any chance Liverpool have of getting in the Champions league and will cost the club £25m.
I would be interested to know who the members of the panel were.
Terry will get off - the criteria in a court of law is very different as it will have to be proved beyond reasonable doubt. The FA will then hide behind this and won't suspend Terry - after all hes England captain and they don't get suspended (remember shearer)
Someone earlier mentioned that Euell was being critised on twitter by Liverpool fans - can some-one expand why?
Euell congratulated the FA for being tough regarding racism and the scousers have been giving him grief.
Collymore said something similar and has retweeted what some of the Liverpool mob have treated him. Needless to say there are some right knuckle daggers out there
It is not Evra's word against Suarez's. Suarez has admitted using the word, so there is no doubt as to what has been said. Apparently Evra has said he doesnt believe Suarez is a racist (grandfather black) but that he used racially derogative comments (surely that does make him a racist though).
Given that Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay are banning all ships flying the Falklands Islands flag from their respective seaports, irrespective of any racist remarks, Suarez, Tevez and all the other ios and ezes should be deported immediately along with the other several thousand Brazies, Argies and Urus living and 'working' or claiming benefits in the UK .. and if that's racist .. so be it
Definitely. In fact, lets start a war about a group of godforsaken shithouse islands 8000 miles away that are the last vestiges of Britain's 'empire' to detract from the fact that we are utterly, utterly fucked economically.
Is it 1981 again? Tory government dying on it's arse, unemployment raising, need to fight a silly war to get the numbers up?
yeah of course, we should always have rolled over when a repressive regime started occupying british citizens' land.
Some people are absolutely bizarre in that they take any oppurtunity to knock the tories/thatcher even in a thread like this. It's like a weird complex or something.
Back to the topic as said, Suarez admitted using the word, if Evra has found the word offensive then it is racist. I guess it's in what context. It's like I'm half jewish and occasionally my mates have a bit of banter by calling me cheap/a jew etc. If some one apart from a couple of people I've known since i was 2 said it, I'd be incredibly offended. That probably explains why suarez was confused since evra's teammates supposedly call him that. Just my thoughts anyway.
Given that Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay are banning all ships flying the Falklands Islands flag from their respective seaports, irrespective of any racist remarks, Suarez, Tevez and all the other ios and ezes should be deported immediately along with the other several thousand Brazies, Argies and Urus living and 'working' or claiming benefits in the UK .. and if that's racist .. so be it
Definitely. In fact, lets start a war about a group of godforsaken shithouse islands 8000 miles away that are the last vestiges of Britain's 'empire' to detract from the fact that we are utterly, utterly fucked economically.
Is it 1981 again? Tory government dying on it's arse, unemployment raising, need to fight a silly war to get the numbers up?
yeah of course, we should always have rolled over when a repressive regime started occupying british citizens' land.
Some people are absolutely bizarre in that they take any oppurtunity to knock the tories/thatcher even in a thread like this. It's like a weird complex or something.
Back to the topic as said, Suarez admitted using the word, if Evra has found the word offensive then it is racist. I guess it's in what context. It's like I'm half jewish and occasionally my mates have a bit of banter by calling me cheap/a jew etc. If some one apart from a couple of people I've known since i was 2 said it, I'd be incredibly offended. That probably explains why suarez was confused since evra's teammates supposedly call him that. Just my thoughts anyway.
I didn't mention the tories or thatcher. Lets not get into a debate about whether the Falklands should still 'belong' to britain in this day and age. And I'd be incredibly surprised if any of Evra's teammates call him 'little coon'.
Given that Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay are banning all ships flying the Falklands Islands flag from their respective seaports, irrespective of any racist remarks, Suarez, Tevez and all the other ios and ezes should be deported immediately along with the other several thousand Brazies, Argies and Urus living and 'working' or claiming benefits in the UK .. and if that's racist .. so be it
Definitely. In fact, lets start a war about a group of godforsaken shithouse islands 8000 miles away that are the last vestiges of Britain's 'empire' to detract from the fact that we are utterly, utterly fucked economically.
Is it 1981 again? Tory government dying on it's arse, unemployment raising, need to fight a silly war to get the numbers up?
yeah of course, we should always have rolled over when a repressive regime started occupying british citizens' land.
Some people are absolutely bizarre in that they take any oppurtunity to knock the tories/thatcher even in a thread like this. It's like a weird complex or something.
Back to the topic as said, Suarez admitted using the word, if Evra has found the word offensive then it is racist. I guess it's in what context. It's like I'm half jewish and occasionally my mates have a bit of banter by calling me cheap/a jew etc. If some one apart from a couple of people I've known since i was 2 said it, I'd be incredibly offended. That probably explains why suarez was confused since evra's teammates supposedly call him that. Just my thoughts anyway.
I didn't mention the tories or thatcher. Lets not get into a debate about whether the Falklands should still 'belong' to britain in this day and age. And I'd be incredibly surprised if any of Evra's teammates call him 'little coon'.
I wasn't referring to you? And read my post, I said "supposedly". Calm down, dear.
It is not Evra's word against Suarez's. Suarez has admitted using the word, so there is no doubt as to what has been said. Apparently Evra has said he doesnt believe Suarez is a racist (grandfather black) but that he used racially derogative comments (surely that does make him a racist though).
Confused of IG6.
How do you define everything though?
Isn't racism actually discriminating against a race of people simply due to their colour? Whether it's not giving them jobs, paying them less, not treating them as equal to others. Saying a racist remark doesn't mean you treat them less equal - ie, you don't discriminate in other ways, you've just abused them in an effort to offend them - ie, if a fat fella pushes in front of you, "oi you fat f**k"....or at the football when Oldham fans are gloating about a goal & you shout "f off you northern tossers" etc etc....doesn't mean you then treat a northerner differently.
I think sometimes the lines become blurred. But taking it to it's extremes.....if you're sitting on a train with your bag on the seat & some obese bloke with remnants of food in his beard gets on...how quickly do you shift your bag? If a south american female super model walked on...you'd have that bag off & be plumping up the seat for her. Isn't that discrimination based on gender & appearance? Doesn't everyone discriminate day in, day out on a whole range of issues - whether it's personality, looks, appearance, wealth, status, nationality etc?
If at a job interview there were 3 candidates, all pretty equal, each Millwall, Charlton & Palace, who would you go for?
As for Suarez, he's guilty of making a racist insult & should be dealt with appropriately. The Terry one, I can see the CPS throwing that out (can't see how a conviction can be gained with that evidence) but doesn't stop the FA in charging him.
It is not Evra's word against Suarez's. Suarez has admitted using the word, so there is no doubt as to what has been said. Apparently Evra has said he doesnt believe Suarez is a racist (grandfather black) but that he used racially derogative comments (surely that does make him a racist though).
Confused of IG6.
How do you define everything though?
Isn't racism actually discriminating against a race of people simply due to their colour? Whether it's not giving them jobs, paying them less, not treating them as equal to others. Saying a racist remark doesn't mean you treat them less equal - ie, you don't discriminate in other ways, you've just abused them in an effort to offend them - ie, if a fat fella pushes in front of you, "oi you fat f**k"....or at the football when Oldham fans are gloating about a goal & you shout "f off you northern tossers" etc etc....doesn't mean you then treat a northerner differently.
I think sometimes the lines become blurred. But taking it to it's extremes.....if you're sitting on a train with your bag on the seat & some obese bloke with remnants of food in his beard gets on...how quickly do you shift your bag? If a south american female super model walked on...you'd have that bag off & be plumping up the seat for her. Isn't that discrimination based on gender & appearance? Doesn't everyone discriminate day in, day out on a whole range of issues - whether it's personality, looks, appearance, wealth, status, nationality etc?
If at a job interview there were 3 candidates, all pretty equal, each Millwall, Charlton & Palace, who would you go for?
As for Suarez, he's guilty of making a racist insult & should be dealt with appropriately. The Terry one, I can see the CPS throwing that out (can't see how a conviction can be gained with that evidence) but doesn't stop the FA in charging him.
I think you'll find calling someone a 'black c***' has slightly more offensive connotations than calling someone a 'fat c***'. Not sure on this, but it might be because (as far as I'm aware) there are no examples in history of fat people being herded en masse (no pun intended) onto boats and shipped off to far-flung corners of the globe to work as slaves simply because they were fat?
And by God - if I'd ever been in the situation where three candidates for a job were sitting across me from a desk and I even contemplated giving one of them a job based on the football team they supported I'd be the biggest prick in Christendom.
It is not Evra's word against Suarez's. Suarez has admitted using the word, so there is no doubt as to what has been said. Apparently Evra has said he doesnt believe Suarez is a racist (grandfather black) but that he used racially derogative comments (surely that does make him a racist though).
Confused of IG6.
How do you define everything though?
Isn't racism actually discriminating against a race of people simply due to their colour? Whether it's not giving them jobs, paying them less, not treating them as equal to others. Saying a racist remark doesn't mean you treat them less equal - ie, you don't discriminate in other ways, you've just abused them in an effort to offend them - ie, if a fat fella pushes in front of you, "oi you fat f**k"....or at the football when Oldham fans are gloating about a goal & you shout "f off you northern tossers" etc etc....doesn't mean you then treat a northerner differently.
I think sometimes the lines become blurred. But taking it to it's extremes.....if you're sitting on a train with your bag on the seat & some obese bloke with remnants of food in his beard gets on...how quickly do you shift your bag? If a south american female super model walked on...you'd have that bag off & be plumping up the seat for her. Isn't that discrimination based on gender & appearance? Doesn't everyone discriminate day in, day out on a whole range of issues - whether it's personality, looks, appearance, wealth, status, nationality etc?
If at a job interview there were 3 candidates, all pretty equal, each Millwall, Charlton & Palace, who would you go for?
As for Suarez, he's guilty of making a racist insult & should be dealt with appropriately. The Terry one, I can see the CPS throwing that out (can't see how a conviction can be gained with that evidence) but doesn't stop the FA in charging him.
I think you'll find calling someone a 'black c***' has slightly more offensive connotations than calling someone a 'fat c***'. Not sure on this, but it might be because (as far as I'm aware) there are no examples in history of fat people being herded en masse (no pun intended) onto boats and shipped off to far-flung corners of the globe to work as slaves simply because they were fat?
And by God - if I'd ever been in the situation where three candidates for a job were sitting across me from a desk and I even contemplated giving one of them a job based on the football team they supported I'd be the biggest prick in Christendom.
I agree, there are more offensive connotations due to the history of the slave trade, but you shouldn't forget that white people were victims as well. Was it not arabs that controlled the slave trade and took africans as well as europeans originally. With africans it lasted longer & in more significant numbers so I understand the ramifications of that in the modern world.
The point was is there a difference between being racist and/or discrimantory and making a racist / discrimantory remark. Evra has stated there is. & whilst thousands up & down the country chant homphobic songs to Brighton, or in the past to players like Savage, Birch etc does it make all of them homophobic in the sense of discriminating against gay people in the workplace, in the community etc? It doesn't make it right, but is there a difference?
& I never said you'd pick someone purely on who they supported, but perhaps your pre-conceptions of each candidate are different before they've even entered the room if you knew each persons address was Charlton, Bermondsey & Selhurst.....& if you ever talk about football in an interview, which has happened in all of mine...I'd presume there will be more of a friendly chat with the Charlton fan than the other 2 which may or may not have a more positive influence on your view of him/her.
Hold. Everybody on here now thinks he called him a little coon. That is definately not the case. It is what somebody on here said it might mean something like that. These sorts of words meanings rarely translate well. Looks like Suarez made a mistake but to stop his employers using him for 20% of his time is neither fair on the club or the fans. It is way OTT
I agree, there are more offensive connotations due to the history of the slave trade, but you shouldn't forget that white people were victims as well. Was it not arabs that controlled the slave trade and took africans as well as europeans originally. With africans it lasted longer & in more significant numbers so I understand the ramifications of that in the modern world.
The Arab slave trade was an equal opportunities "employer", taking slaves of any race, white, black, Arab although many more blacks than whites (estimates are 18 million v 1.5 million).
The African slave trade was by European and took only blacks. The estimate is 12 million.
Don't know why the FA wasted a huge fee employing a reputable QC to chair a week long inquiry, when there are apparently people on CL who could have told them exactly what happened!
Liverpool will later this week get what will be a quasi judicial summary of the reasons behind the decsion, and having read that, they can then appeal if they wish.
What is perferctly clear is that the FA would not have decided on such a severe punishment if the case simply turned on 'one player's word against another'.
The Terry case will now be very interesting. If the CPS announces this afternoon that there is insufficient evidence to prosecute, it will be quite hard for the FA to press ahead with charges against him. So paradoxically, Terry could end up escaping any punishment for the sole reason that the police got involved.
But the way the CPS has set up the media for an announcement this afternoon, the mood music suggests that he will be charged. (EDIT 2.30 pm - confirmed that he is being charged).
Hold. Everybody on here now thinks he called him a little coon. That is definately not the case. It is what somebody on here said it might mean something like that. These sorts of words meanings rarely translate well. Looks like Suarez made a mistake but to stop his employers using him for 20% of his time is neither fair on the club or the fans. It is way OTT
He DID call him a 'little coon'. That is exactly what 'Negrito' means. It doesn't mean 'something like that'. Try calling someone you work with a 'little coon' and see whether you're more likely to get a fine of two days' wages and two months off work, or the sack.
Do I therefore have the right to take offence at any black person who kisses their teeth at me, as it means "f*** you" (as told to my partner by a black student she used to teach), or are they allowed to do that as its part of their culture, which seems to be what Suarez is claiming?
Hold. Everybody on here now thinks he called him a little coon. That is definately not the case. It is what somebody on here said it might mean something like that. These sorts of words meanings rarely translate well. Looks like Suarez made a mistake but to stop his employers using him for 20% of his time is neither fair on the club or the fans. It is way OTT
He DID call him a 'little coon'. That is exactly what 'Negrito' means. It doesn't mean 'something like that'. Try calling someone you work with a 'little coon' and see whether you're more likely to get a fine of two days' wages and two months off work, or the sack.
My Spanish dictionary defines 'negrito' as a small black coffee, when the word is used in South America. Perhaps the problem here is more of context .. IF IF and again IF Suarez saw that his use of what was to him (Suarez) initially an inoffensive word, was causing grief and distress to Evra and Suarez continued to use the word, then, Suarez is guilty of at best being an annoying little twat and at worst of using language intended to cause offence. To label Suarez a racist per se is wrong. The problem under the present law is that words and acts which 'the recipient' finds racially offensive are used.. this makes the test subjective .. and subjective law is bad law, I might take offence at being called 'whitey' or 'white boy', my friend might not take offence at all .. same words, different potential outcome.
Comments
This to me seems a farce andd would never have stood up in a court of law. The evidence is basically what Evra has said before. On this basis stopping somebody working for 20% of their working year seems unbelievable. It will almost certainly stop any chance Liverpool have of getting in the Champions league and will cost the club £25m.
I would be interested to know who the members of the panel were.
Terry will get off - the criteria in a court of law is very different as it will have to be proved beyond reasonable doubt. The FA will then hide behind this and won't suspend Terry - after all hes England captain and they don't get suspended (remember shearer)
Collymore said something similar and has retweeted what some of the Liverpool mob have treated him. Needless to say there are some right knuckle daggers out there
It is not Evra's word against Suarez's. Suarez has admitted using the word, so there is no doubt as to what has been said. Apparently Evra has said he doesnt believe Suarez is a racist (grandfather black) but that he used racially derogative comments (surely that does make him a racist though).
Confused of IG6.
How do you define everything though?
Isn't racism actually discriminating against a race of people simply due to their colour? Whether it's not giving them jobs, paying them less, not treating them as equal to others. Saying a racist remark doesn't mean you treat them less equal - ie, you don't discriminate in other ways, you've just abused them in an effort to offend them - ie, if a fat fella pushes in front of you, "oi you fat f**k"....or at the football when Oldham fans are gloating about a goal & you shout "f off you northern tossers" etc etc....doesn't mean you then treat a northerner differently.
I think sometimes the lines become blurred. But taking it to it's extremes.....if you're sitting on a train with your bag on the seat & some obese bloke with remnants of food in his beard gets on...how quickly do you shift your bag? If a south american female super model walked on...you'd have that bag off & be plumping up the seat for her. Isn't that discrimination based on gender & appearance? Doesn't everyone discriminate day in, day out on a whole range of issues - whether it's personality, looks, appearance, wealth, status, nationality etc?
If at a job interview there were 3 candidates, all pretty equal, each Millwall, Charlton & Palace, who would you go for?
As for Suarez, he's guilty of making a racist insult & should be dealt with appropriately. The Terry one, I can see the CPS throwing that out (can't see how a conviction can be gained with that evidence) but doesn't stop the FA in charging him.
And by God - if I'd ever been in the situation where three candidates for a job were sitting across me from a desk and I even contemplated giving one of them a job based on the football team they supported I'd be the biggest prick in Christendom.
I agree, there are more offensive connotations due to the history of the slave trade, but you shouldn't forget that white people were victims as well. Was it not arabs that controlled the slave trade and took africans as well as europeans originally. With africans it lasted longer & in more significant numbers so I understand the ramifications of that in the modern world.
The point was is there a difference between being racist and/or discrimantory and making a racist / discrimantory remark. Evra has stated there is. & whilst thousands up & down the country chant homphobic songs to Brighton, or in the past to players like Savage, Birch etc does it make all of them homophobic in the sense of discriminating against gay people in the workplace, in the community etc? It doesn't make it right, but is there a difference?
& I never said you'd pick someone purely on who they supported, but perhaps your pre-conceptions of each candidate are different before they've even entered the room if you knew each persons address was Charlton, Bermondsey & Selhurst.....& if you ever talk about football in an interview, which has happened in all of mine...I'd presume there will be more of a friendly chat with the Charlton fan than the other 2 which may or may not have a more positive influence on your view of him/her.
What point are you trying to make?
Going up to a black man & calling him that would be highly offensive & would be a racist comment.
The African slave trade was by European and took only blacks. The estimate is 12 million.
Liverpool will later this week get what will be a quasi judicial summary of the reasons behind the decsion, and having read that, they can then appeal if they wish.
What is perferctly clear is that the FA would not have decided on such a severe punishment if the case simply turned on 'one player's word against another'.
The Terry case will now be very interesting. If the CPS announces this afternoon that there is insufficient evidence to prosecute, it will be quite hard for the FA to press ahead with charges against him. So paradoxically, Terry could end up escaping any punishment for the sole reason that the police got involved.
But the way the CPS has set up the media for an announcement this afternoon, the mood music suggests that he will be charged. (EDIT 2.30 pm - confirmed that he is being charged).
.