[cite]Posted By: Valiantphil[/cite]I am not a fan of Sam and am pretty biased against his abilities - BUT,............
Did I imagine it, or did we deteriorate after he was substituted ?
Serious answers please.
Yes we did deteriorate.
Sam is one of the few quality players we have. He is playing in league one with us precisely because he doesn't do it for 90 minutes or score the goals his ability promises.
[cite]Posted By: Sam lloyd[/cite]You'll all miss him when he's gone - mark my word !!
Sadly the fact is i miss him when he's here
Think you need to take a look at those stats then
No i think you need to or aint you so hot on maths ?
Stats are stats, I didn't make them up & I'd rather rely on the stats than my maths thank you
Let's put it another way - these amazing stats say that Sam contibutes to 20% of our goals. Bearing in mind that with an assist or a goal 2 of each team contribute to any particular goal. As there are ten outfield players this means 20% of them contribute and therefore on average any player will contribute towards 20% of the goals. This includes defenders. Lloyd Sam is an attacking player and therefore should be well above 20% and as he is so key should be well above that. The stats show that he is not even contributing as much as he should let alone that he is our most creative threat.
[cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]To be honest i haven't looked at the stats but i reckon if i did then shelvey's assists and goals per time on the pitch far outdo Sam's. I maybe completely wrong but i doubt it
[cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]He's come up on this thread because Scoham brought him up.
Sorry wasn't trying to compare him to Shelvey, who without asking you, I'm sure we both agree is the better player.
I was just saying you've used the stats to point out what Shelvey has done when people have critisized him, yet ignore them when trying to suggest that Sam hasn't performed at all. He hasn't performed often enough, but he has had a positive effect on our season.
The most assists in the league is 16 (McGovern, who has Austin and Paynter up front), Sam has 10, and with our average strikers, that's a pretty decent contribution.
A better debate would be Racon, a technical and skillful midfielder with 1 goal and just 3 assists all season. Ten goals less than Lloyd Sam but has offered no more defensively than Sam has either.
[cite aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]Posted By: uncle[/cite]To be honest i haven't looked at the stats but i reckon if i did then shelvey's assists and goals per time on the pitch far outdo Sam's. I maybe completely wrong but i doubt it
[cite aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]Posted By: uncle[/cite]He's come up on this thread because Scoham brought him up.
Sorry wasn't trying to compare him to Shelvey, who without asking you, I'm sure we both agree is the better player.
I was just saying you've used the stats to point out what Shelvey has done when people have critisized him, yet ignore them when trying to suggest that Sam hasn't performed at all. He hasn't performed often enough, but he has had a positive effect on our season.
The most assists in the league is 16 (McGovern, who has Austin and Paynter up front), Sam has 10, and with our average strikers, that's a pretty decent contribution.
A better debate would be Racon, a technical and skillful midfielder with 1 goal and just 3 assists all season. Ten goals less than Lloyd Sam but has offered no more defensively than Sam has either.
I think both have massively under achieved this season, having said that i thought Racon had the best game i've seen him play when he came on last night
Sam is IMO the best technical player at the club, his first touch is Premier League class, and he works very hard both attacking and defensively. Yes he shirked one tackle last night but he won a lot more and made numerous covering runs at the back which other wingers would not do. He sent over 3 crosses in the first 10 mins and countless others after that, it is hardly his fault our attackers cant hit a barn door. His big weakness is clearly his scoring which is not good enough for a winger and should have been something he did far more this season in League1. Anyway, he will be off to the Championship in the summer and will thrive at a different club where nob head fans dont constantly get on his back.
It amazes me the amount of people last night screaming at him to beat his (2) men when Richardson had made an overlapping run meaning if he lost the ball we would have been screwed and the same twats telling him to take the players on would have moaned at him for giving the ball away.
Sadly too many fans have never actually played the game themselves and don't have a clue.
[cite]Posted By: Low_Ears[/cite]i'm with Uncle on this one. To say Sam either scores or assists in 20% of our goals and say what a great stat this is is a joke. We scored 71 goals in the league giving him 142 opportunities to assist or score (I know he wasn't always on the pitch) and he was therefore involved in approximately 28/29 of these. What about the other 100 or so. For a player so key this is not good. He flatters to deceive and personally I don't think we will miss him anywhere near as much as others do.
Bore off mate. What on earth are you on about?
I can't believe people are trying to say that producing 20% of Charlton's goals is not good enough!? 10 assists with the absolute pony we have up front! You're all off your f-ing rockers. He is joint-top of assists for us. Joint top. Joint top. Joint top. Joint top. Should I say it again? People who rely on statistics to prove the worth of other players also completely ignore them for him!
If he looks knackered then you're obviously not watching just how much running he does. And then in one game he switches off for a moment and gets an entire thread dedicated to him being lazy!
Goodbye, Sam. Hope your next (championship) club has a few less cretins for fans.
[cite]Posted By: valleyman[/cite]It amazes me the amount of people last night screaming at him to beat his (2) men when Richardson had made an overlapping run meaning if he lost the ball we would have been screwed and the same twats telling him to take the players on would have moaned at him for giving the ball away.
Funny how people say Sam has no brain, but wouldn't have noticed something like that.
[cite]Posted By: valleyman[/cite]Sam is IMO the best technical player at the club, his first touch is Premier League class, and he works very hard both attacking and defensively. Yes he shirked one tackle last night but he won a lot more and made numerous covering runs at the back which other wingers would not do. He sent over 3 crosses in the first 10 mins and countless others after that, it is hardly his fault our attackers cant hit a barn door. His big weakness is clearly his scoring which is not good enough for a winger and should have been something he did far more this season in League1. Anyway, he will be off to the Championship in the summer and will thrive at a different club where nob head fans dont constantly get on his back.
It amazes me the amount of people last night screaming at him to beat his (2) men when Richardson had made an overlapping run meaning if he lost the ball we would have been screwed and the same twats telling him to take the players on would have moaned at him for giving the ball away.
Sadly too many fans have never actually played the game themselves and don't have a clue.
Yes he hasn't been consistently good, but to me nor has he been consistently bad. There have been flashes of inspiration and if he stays then I'll be pleased, if he goes though not too many tears will be shed, he's never become the player he once looked like he could become.
I thought Sam actually played quite well last night. Im not his greatest fan but i get frustrated with wingers.....even more than goalkeepers. The blow too hot and cold for me.
However, the black bloke (No.25?) marking Sam last night was absolute dogs**t. Im not trying to take away a performance from Lloyd, but he was one of the worst players ive seen down the Valley this season.
Oggy you could say why aint anybody of any note come knocking down the door for him ? meanwhile the hardly played shelvey goes liverpool. we all have a view on him i just dont get him.
[cite]Posted By: nolly[/cite]Oggy you could say why aint anybody of any note come knocking down the door for him ? meanwhile the hardly played shelvey goes liverpool. we all have a view on him i just dont get him.
The thing is he's just not that good for a club to pay a fee for, anyone that would have paid say £500k for him last summer probably already had or could sign better.
Yet at the same I just think he does a decent enough job for us in this league. He's not a great player, but we wouldn't have found better last summer, and a replacement would have needed time to settle in.
Now that he's out of contract, he is a player lower Championship sides will look at. Look how Ambrose scores regularly in the right team, with a pair of good strikers Sam might be able to get 10-15 assists in the league above ours. Not saying he will, but that will be why teams will look at him.
Didn't Swindon have a different left back for the first game? Don't know if he was injured or dropped, but Sam certainly had the better of him on Friday.
Probably a good time for him to move on, but I doubt we're going to find anyone better for next season. Good luck to him.
An assist isn't an assist if there is no goaql at the end of it. ou cant start making what if stats. Thats like saying Racon created 1000 assists this season but no one was there to put them in. Come on lets either use stats or dont use them, if you are using stats then its not that impressive reading. If your using the what if stats i suppose he's been fantastic the best player in the world. He wasn't that good last night and he certainly wasn't dounled up on. I only know he wasn't there when players were looking for an outlet on the right. Other teams dont always make sam their dangerman, that is only assumed so by the Sam lovers on here.
[cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]that is only assumed so by the Sam lovers on here.
How many are "Sam lovers"? I'm not, I just think this season he has been, despite his weaknesses, was our best option on the right of midfield. Others wanted Wagstaff to start, who has only really convinced me off the bench, or someone like Bailey, Yassin or Richardson out there, which I don't agree with either.
Isn't that what the ones defending Sam are saying? Wanting him in the team and defending him isn't the same as rating him highly and thinking he is a fantastic player.
Scoham you are not the only one commenting on this so dont take everything personally. If you are not one it wasn't aimed at you so therefore needn't be defended by you.
Good riddance to him, the lazy git. He clearly doesn't look after his fitness, probably out on the lash too often. At least I haven't got to hear the woman behind me go on about him as if he is God every bloody week now.
Nicky Bailey is NOT the reason we didn't go up. If anything, Nicky Bailey is one of the reasons why we even finished in the Playoffs. Anybody singling him out should take a long hard look at themselves and question their legitimacy as a true Charlton fan. The lad gives his all week in, week out. I will miss him a lot if he goes, you could clearly see how much it meant to him when the game was over. John Terry suffered the same misfortune in a Champions League final, does that necessarily mean he is a bad player?
When watching Lloyd Sam i always think football comes pretty low down on his priority list. Probably behind his x-box,i-pod and facebook.
Harsh i know,but it's just the impression he gives me.
[cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]An assist isn't an assist if there is no goaql at the end of it. ou cant start making what if stats. Thats like saying Racon created 1000 assists this season but no one was there to put them in. Come on lets either use stats or dont use them, if you are using stats then its not that impressive reading. If your using the what if stats i suppose he's been fantastic the best player in the world. He wasn't that good last night and he certainly wasn't dounled up on. I only know he wasn't there when players were looking for an outlet on the right. Other teams dont always make sam their dangerman, that is only assumed so by the Sam lovers on here.
Unc, I'm not particularly a "Sam lover", lol - or "lover" of any player. Like all of us, I watch the team and see what I think are each individual players' strengths and weaknesses ......they are only my opinions, and like everybody else on here, I just say what I think.
But when I read some people's constant trashing of certain players, IMO irrespective of what they may have contributed to the team effort - then I like to give credit where I believe credit is due.
Sam's assist stats only show how effective other players are at converting the chances he creates..... not how effective Sam is in total. That doesn't tell the whole story of how many chances Sam creates that are wasted by others.
If we had more clinical goalscorers and more chances taken, then no doubt Sam's assist record would reflect that with more assists.
But then I don't suppose Sam would get the credit anyway.
If he was half as good at football as he is at shoe shopping i would be happy. You know when he's not interested , he walks around with his head down and looks like he has shat himself. Get Rid.
Comments
Did I imagine it, or did we deteriorate after he was substituted ?
Serious answers please.
Looked shagged before Ht.
Not digging him out but, seriously not being able to last 90mins a s a pro football astounds me.
Stats are stats, I didn't make them up & I'd rather rely on the stats than my maths thank you
Yes we did deteriorate.
Sam is one of the few quality players we have. He is playing in league one with us precisely because he doesn't do it for 90 minutes or score the goals his ability promises.
If he did he would be in the Premiership.
Let's put it another way - these amazing stats say that Sam contibutes to 20% of our goals. Bearing in mind that with an assist or a goal 2 of each team contribute to any particular goal. As there are ten outfield players this means 20% of them contribute and therefore on average any player will contribute towards 20% of the goals. This includes defenders. Lloyd Sam is an attacking player and therefore should be well above 20% and as he is so key should be well above that. The stats show that he is not even contributing as much as he should let alone that he is our most creative threat.
I was just saying you've used the stats to point out what Shelvey has done when people have critisized him, yet ignore them when trying to suggest that Sam hasn't performed at all. He hasn't performed often enough, but he has had a positive effect on our season.
The most assists in the league is 16 (McGovern, who has Austin and Paynter up front), Sam has 10, and with our average strikers, that's a pretty decent contribution.
A better debate would be Racon, a technical and skillful midfielder with 1 goal and just 3 assists all season. Ten goals less than Lloyd Sam but has offered no more defensively than Sam has either.
I think both have massively under achieved this season, having said that i thought Racon had the best game i've seen him play when he came on last night
It amazes me the amount of people last night screaming at him to beat his (2) men when Richardson had made an overlapping run meaning if he lost the ball we would have been screwed and the same twats telling him to take the players on would have moaned at him for giving the ball away.
Sadly too many fans have never actually played the game themselves and don't have a clue.
Bore off mate. What on earth are you on about?
I can't believe people are trying to say that producing 20% of Charlton's goals is not good enough!? 10 assists with the absolute pony we have up front! You're all off your f-ing rockers. He is joint-top of assists for us. Joint top. Joint top. Joint top. Joint top. Should I say it again? People who rely on statistics to prove the worth of other players also completely ignore them for him!
If he looks knackered then you're obviously not watching just how much running he does. And then in one game he switches off for a moment and gets an entire thread dedicated to him being lazy!
Goodbye, Sam. Hope your next (championship) club has a few less cretins for fans.
Spot on.
But that only accounts for the chances he's created that others have actually converted.
If Sam creates a goalscoring chance that others waste - then there's no goal, no assist nor any credit to Lloyd Sam for the opportunity he created.
If you look for weaknesses in his game, you'll find them alright - same as every player in League One or even the Championship.
But significantly, he's always highlighted as the dangerman by our opponents' manager.
And their tactics are invariably aimed at stopping Sam.
Why is that then ........ how come hugely experienced professionals in the game can't see that Sam is so totally useless?
However, the black bloke (No.25?) marking Sam last night was absolute dogs**t. Im not trying to take away a performance from Lloyd, but he was one of the worst players ive seen down the Valley this season.
Yet at the same I just think he does a decent enough job for us in this league. He's not a great player, but we wouldn't have found better last summer, and a replacement would have needed time to settle in.
Now that he's out of contract, he is a player lower Championship sides will look at. Look how Ambrose scores regularly in the right team, with a pair of good strikers Sam might be able to get 10-15 assists in the league above ours. Not saying he will, but that will be why teams will look at him.
Probably a good time for him to move on, but I doubt we're going to find anyone better for next season.
Good luck to him.
Isn't that what the ones defending Sam are saying? Wanting him in the team and defending him isn't the same as rating him highly and thinking he is a fantastic player.
Nicky Bailey is NOT the reason we didn't go up. If anything, Nicky Bailey is one of the reasons why we even finished in the Playoffs. Anybody singling him out should take a long hard look at themselves and question their legitimacy as a true Charlton fan. The lad gives his all week in, week out. I will miss him a lot if he goes, you could clearly see how much it meant to him when the game was over. John Terry suffered the same misfortune in a Champions League final, does that necessarily mean he is a bad player?
Harsh i know,but it's just the impression he gives me.
we need the cash
bye bye
I don't think there will be any cash as I believe he is out of contract.
Unc, I'm not particularly a "Sam lover", lol - or "lover" of any player. Like all of us, I watch the team and see what I think are each individual players' strengths and weaknesses ......they are only my opinions, and like everybody else on here, I just say what I think.
But when I read some people's constant trashing of certain players, IMO irrespective of what they may have contributed to the team effort - then I like to give credit where I believe credit is due.
Sam's assist stats only show how effective other players are at converting the chances he creates..... not how effective Sam is in total. That doesn't tell the whole story of how many chances Sam creates that are wasted by others.
If we had more clinical goalscorers and more chances taken, then no doubt Sam's assist record would reflect that with more assists.
But then I don't suppose Sam would get the credit anyway.