Just to clarify, Sam is not in the side to score goals although obviously you do expect your winger to get a few. hoolahans return is exceptional however. He is in the side to create chances and he has done that and caused problems all season, even if he has had the odd game where he has been poor.
he caused problems again last night AND worked his b*llocks off and did very well defensively. and I would say that his return of assists is pretty outstanding when you consider that compared to some of the other wingers in the division - he doesn't take any corners or free-kicks - and he has been creating chances for a blunt forward line all season.
Jon Paul mcgovern, for example, top of that list, has been playing with paynter and austin. we have had burton, mooney and akpo sodje.
yes he's not a world class player and yes he does tire, but it is unbelievable how much some people single him out for criticism when there have been the likes of sodje and mooney putting shots at the corner flag all season and sodje and llera producing kamikaze defending.
Good post paulsturgess. Do wonder what Sam might have created if we had a proper goalscorer alongside Burton.
About his goalscoring record - Sam is neither a good composed finisher nor does he get into good positions. Both are weaknesses in his game. I think his lack of movement generally probably makes him look more tired and lazier than he actually is.
No one goes on about Reid's fitness or lack of assists, why is that? Rarely see a good cross from Wagstaff either.
Every game I can gurantee someone is waiting for Sam to make a couple of mistakes before they shout "get him off". Sometimes it's been the right thing to do, last night I didn't see an improvement in our play when Wagstaff came on.
The fact is Sam's goalscoring is poor, his assists record is good considering our strikers and that he doesn't take set pieces. He is inconsistent but he has been one of our main threats without him.
If he leaves and we don't find a good replacement, we will be a weaker team without him. He won't appear to do as well as Ambrose has simply because people won't check assists each week like they hear about goals.
If we can replace him, fine, but I doubt that with no money we won't find a winger that does everything Sam can and not have frustrating weaknesses to his game.
Sam was poor last night regardless of what the stats say over the season. Looked like he was carrying an injury to me and never threatened. I was watching closely and there was no evidence of the Swindon defence 'doubling up' on him either. He simply lacked any kind of threat.
But as Ooh Aah correctly points out Wagstaff is a very limited player who's only attribute appears to be a decent shot and he is unlikely to contribute much next season IMO.
My brother and I spent almost the entire time that Sam was on the field berating him for various errors and were delighted when he was subbed (I am sure he was injured anyway).
My old man phoned me up this afternoon and said, "Why did your lot take off that bloke Sam? He was absolutely destroying Swindon by himself, when he went off your lot (he is Millwall) fell apart!"
[cite]Posted By: Southendaddick[/cite]Sam had 3 on him on Friday and 2 last night.
Wagstaff is pony, probably a Charlton fan tho so hey....
Sam wasn't doubled up on last night in fact he was so ineffective they didn't even bother putting one on him at times. I'd like to watch that game with anyone again and be shown how he was doubled up on and how threatening he was. They took more notice of Wagstaff when he came on and i'll bet anyone when he gets to the age sam is now he'll be ten times better.
[cite]Posted By: Southendaddick[/cite]Sam had 3 on him on Friday and 2 last night.
Wagstaff is pony, probably a Charlton fan tho so hey....
Sam wasn't doubled up on last night in fact he was so ineffective they didn't even bother putting one on him at times. I'd like to watch that game with anyone again and be shown how he was doubled up on and how threatening he was. They took more notice of Wagstaff when he came on and i'll bet anyone when he gets to the age sam is now he'll be ten times better.
So ineffective that every time he was on the ball he was tripped, shoved or hauled to the ground by the fullback. The linesman in the first half got so many decisions wrong it was sunbelievable. The fact of the matter is as soon as he left the pitch we lost control of the game.
[cite]Posted By: Southendaddick[/cite]Sam had 3 on him on Friday and 2 last night.
Wagstaff is pony, probably a Charlton fan tho so hey....
Sam wasn't doubled up on last night in fact he was so ineffective they didn't even bother putting one on him at times. I'd like to watch that game with anyone again and be shown how he was doubled up on and how threatening he was. They took more notice of Wagstaff when he came on and i'll bet anyone when he gets to the age sam is now he'll be ten times better.
So ineffective that every time he was on the ball he was tripped, shoved or hauled to the ground by the fullback. The linesman in the first half got so many decisions wrong it was sunbelievable. The fact of the matter is as soon as he left the pitch we lost control of the game.
[cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]They took more notice of Wagstaff when he came on and i'll bet anyone when he gets to the age sam is now he'll be ten times better.
Hopefully he will be. Doesn't mean Sam isn't good enough for us in League One though.
In almost every game the opposition have put two men on him. I think people miss the bigger picture. Best of luck to him if he moves on, but I'd like him to stay with us.
[cite aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]Posted By: uncle[/cite]They took more notice of Wagstaff when he came on and i'll bet anyone when he gets to the age sam is now he'll be ten times better.
Hopefully he will be. Doesn't mean Sam isn't good enough for us in League One though.
It doesn't mean he is either. Maybe he needs a move to freshen up but he certainly aint doing it for charlton. I've haerd all the arguments about he aint there to score goals, he aint there to run past full backs, what i haven't heard is what he is actually there to do because last time i checked thats what wingers done. He gives no width, at least 7 times last night players had the ball looked out right to find Sam only to find he had come inside and no one was there and the move was then broken down.
Sam certainly frustrates but is a lot more effective than many on here give credit for. Out of contract and no doubt quite a few Championship clubs will offer Lloyd more than we will be able to do. Goodbye and goodluck. I will certainly be sorry to see him go. Sometimes you don`t know what you have till it`s gone.
I don't even see him as an out and out winger myself, as stupid as that sounds. He's a right midfielder with a bit (not loads) of pace and skill that make him look like a winger. He gets crosses in, keeps possession and helps put his full back. Certainly not a typical winger like Reid and Wagstaff, some see that as a bad thing though.
You often used the assist stats to point out Shelvey's contribution, does that not apply to Sam? Best in the league is McGovern with 16 assists, who has Austin and Paynter to aim for. Sam has our average strikers, no regular partnership and has 10.
To say he's not doing it for Charlton I just can't agree with. Not standing out or playing well consistently I agree, but it's harsh on him to suggest he's been poor all or most of the season.
I would like next year to put together a team of gritty hardened players who what they lack in skill put back in will power and want to win no matter how,i want to remove the giggling wingers who cannot tackle.
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]I don't even see him as an out and out winger myself, as stupid as that sounds. He's a right midfielder with a bit (not loads) of pace and skill that make him look like a winger. He gets crosses in, keeps possession and helps put his full back. Certainly not a typical winger like Reid and Wagstaff, some see that as a bad thing though.
You often used the assist stats to point out Shelvey's contribution, does that not apply to Sam? Best in the league is McGovern with 16 assists, who has Austin and Paynter to aim for. Sam has our average strikers, no regular partnership and has 10.
To say he's not doing it for Charlton I just can't agree with. Not standing out or playing well consistently I agree, but it's harsh on him to suggest he's been poor all or most of the season.
To be honest i haven't looked at the stats but i reckon if i did then shelvey's assists and goals per time on the pitch far outdo Sam's. I maybe completely wrong but i doubt it
i'm with Uncle on this one. To say Sam either scores or assists in 20% of our goals and say what a great stat this is is a joke. We scored 71 goals in the league giving him 142 opportunities to assist or score (I know he wasn't always on the pitch) and he was therefore involved in approximately 28/29 of these. What about the other 100 or so. For a player so key this is not good. He flatters to deceive and personally I don't think we will miss him anywhere near as much as others do.
He could put crosses in all day long but if you have a strikeforce that can't even get thier feet off the ground let alone head a ball what good is it going to do. 20 goal a season striker and i think Lloyd may have had one of the best assist records in the league. Sadly we did not so we will never know.
Comments
he caused problems again last night AND worked his b*llocks off and did very well defensively. and I would say that his return of assists is pretty outstanding when you consider that compared to some of the other wingers in the division - he doesn't take any corners or free-kicks - and he has been creating chances for a blunt forward line all season.
Jon Paul mcgovern, for example, top of that list, has been playing with paynter and austin. we have had burton, mooney and akpo sodje.
yes he's not a world class player and yes he does tire, but it is unbelievable how much some people single him out for criticism when there have been the likes of sodje and mooney putting shots at the corner flag all season and sodje and llera producing kamikaze defending.
About his goalscoring record - Sam is neither a good composed finisher nor does he get into good positions. Both are weaknesses in his game. I think his lack of movement generally probably makes him look more tired and lazier than he actually is.
No one goes on about Reid's fitness or lack of assists, why is that? Rarely see a good cross from Wagstaff either.
Every game I can gurantee someone is waiting for Sam to make a couple of mistakes before they shout "get him off". Sometimes it's been the right thing to do, last night I didn't see an improvement in our play when Wagstaff came on.
The fact is Sam's goalscoring is poor, his assists record is good considering our strikers and that he doesn't take set pieces. He is inconsistent but he has been one of our main threats without him.
If he leaves and we don't find a good replacement, we will be a weaker team without him. He won't appear to do as well as Ambrose has simply because people won't check assists each week like they hear about goals.
If we can replace him, fine, but I doubt that with no money we won't find a winger that does everything Sam can and not have frustrating weaknesses to his game.
But as Ooh Aah correctly points out Wagstaff is a very limited player who's only attribute appears to be a decent shot and he is unlikely to contribute much next season IMO.
Wagstaff is pony, probably a Charlton fan tho so hey....
My old man phoned me up this afternoon and said, "Why did your lot take off that bloke Sam? He was absolutely destroying Swindon by himself, when he went off your lot (he is Millwall) fell apart!"
Opinions, eh?!!!!
Sam wasn't doubled up on last night in fact he was so ineffective they didn't even bother putting one on him at times. I'd like to watch that game with anyone again and be shown how he was doubled up on and how threatening he was. They took more notice of Wagstaff when he came on and i'll bet anyone when he gets to the age sam is now he'll be ten times better.
So ineffective that every time he was on the ball he was tripped, shoved or hauled to the ground by the fullback. The linesman in the first half got so many decisions wrong it was sunbelievable. The fact of the matter is as soon as he left the pitch we lost control of the game.
I think you'll find he was just falling over
It doesn't mean he is either. Maybe he needs a move to freshen up but he certainly aint doing it for charlton. I've haerd all the arguments about he aint there to score goals, he aint there to run past full backs, what i haven't heard is what he is actually there to do because last time i checked thats what wingers done. He gives no width, at least 7 times last night players had the ball looked out right to find Sam only to find he had come inside and no one was there and the move was then broken down.
Perhaps its the same group who though Ambrose was awful !
You often used the assist stats to point out Shelvey's contribution, does that not apply to Sam? Best in the league is McGovern with 16 assists, who has Austin and Paynter to aim for. Sam has our average strikers, no regular partnership and has 10.
To say he's not doing it for Charlton I just can't agree with. Not standing out or playing well consistently I agree, but it's harsh on him to suggest he's been poor all or most of the season.
To be honest i haven't looked at the stats but i reckon if i did then shelvey's assists and goals per time on the pitch far outdo Sam's. I maybe completely wrong but i doubt it
Sadly the fact is i miss him when he's here
Think you need to take a look at those stats then
Fellas behind me on Friday were slagging Lloyd Sam on Friday but they had 3 on him and when wagstaff came on he did nothing
Lets did this thread up in November when Sam is doing an Ambrose for a championship team and Wagstaff is running into dead ends
Fellas behind me were slagging Lloyd Sam on Friday but they had 3 on him and when wagstaff came on he did nothing
Lets did this thread up in November when Sam is doing an Ambrose for a championship team and Wagstaff is running into dead ends
Although I guess im stating the obvious
No i think you need to or aint you so hot on maths ?
He's come up on this thread because Scoham brought him up.