No, why?
Your ball and all that, but I'll continue to (try to) post my views if I disagree with something - same as anyone else is welcome to - as long as it's not offensive.
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]Yes, we're fans and we care and are loyal to the point of stupidity, etc. But football ultimately is a business the same as any other. There are profits and losses and paople get hired and fired.
Off_it, I certainly understand this, and I can assure everyone that Airman Brown does too. For example, Valley Express, which he helped both to create and implement, was carefully costed from the first day to be a balanced-book operation. At the same time, as everyone knows, this club is his abiding passion. This thread has turned to a discussion about whether his criticisms of Waggott are justified, and whether he should put them about as he has done. He's convinced me on the first, I have my doubts about the second, but for sure he's doing it for Charlton, not for himself. Anyway, he is not, as AFKA said, the source. As Goonerhater said, the last medium he'd co-operate with is the Daily Mail. I would treat it with the contempt it deserves (and if anyone could persuade me how to get my Mum to do the same, please advise me :-))
personally I'm glad Airman is prepared to stick his head above the papapet and state his views. He may be an employee (part-time) but he is above that a Charlton fan. How I wish we'd had someone like Airman at the Club in 1985 as we might have got wind about what was about to happen and have been able to do something about it. If anyone reads this thread or the 'what does Waggy do' thread and can form the opinion that Airman is waging some sort of vendetta or using CL for his own ends then I think you are barking up the wrong tree. He has just commented as he has seen fit and I'm thankful for it. There may be consequences for him and there may not but at least he's prepared to say what he thinks and accept those consequences if they happen. My guess is that he's said nothing that isn't true.
what i find most concerning in all of this is airman brown saying waggott is not coming anywhere near fulfiling his role ( maybe thats wrong, wording value for money ) ? and that the board are fully aware of it,yet nothing has been done.This is just another shambles following on from the many others that have occured over the last couple of years.Christ almighty what the feck is happening at our club.Who in their right mind would invest in our club when they could possibly see it self destructing and knowing if they keep their powder dry they could pick it up for peanuts in the not too distant future.
Mick Collins I had a fairly high regard for your views in the past but you have over stepped the mark in the timing of this piece.
Surely as a forum, anyone can contribute whatever their circumstances. Personally I find Airman's posts interesting and at times very helpful, and I think this forum would suffer if he was to stop posting as a result of some crap journalism in a 2 bob paper.
Surely any consequences arising from his posts should be his concern and his concern only, and I imagine he knows the possible ramifications before posting. The fact that his obvious grievances haven't been heard by those above him does worry me, as any decent organisation should have processes for them to be heard, the fact the club hasn't is a little worrying.
But it's some crap journalism in a 2-bob paper so don't get wound up by it. Any club relegated twice in 3 years is going to have financial issues, and I imagine these will affect the make up of the playing staff next season whatever division we are in. But it shouldn't affect what happens on the pitch tomorrow, so let's just forget the bigger picture for 30 hours or whatever and focus on supporting the team.
Good on you AB, I fully agree with Large's views above. It may be unprofessional but I don't care because I'm not your boss (which is a shame in a remuneration sense)...well done for having enough passion and gumption to stand up for your views and what matters most to you and all of us, your role in the Valley Party and other ventures has helped keep this club alive just as much as economic funding ever could, you stood up and were counted when we didn't have a pot
I ask myself what Airman is seeking to gain by his insinuations in the Waggott thread.
Shouldn't this be kept in house?
Is Collins complicit in the Mail's exposure of this; also this follows the other Mail story about impending admin.
At the very least it's indiscreet and unhelpful or is there some other agenda from these purported Charlton fans?
While everyone is highlighting things they have been "banging on about for months", may I add that:
We gave up a real safety-net when we allowed the board to scrap the fans' elected member. There is a lot of Valley Party history on this site at the moment and it's all about going to a match and being handed a bit of paper which says we are going to groundshare.
The Valley Party and the VIP scheme (along with others) got us back to our ground (with only a 7000 capacity!) and in return, fans were allowed to elect a representative at the highest level. We allowed the Board to scrap this benefit without so much as a whimper.
Now we all sit here reading made-up stuff from the Mail or relying on Airman to keep us informed.
Didn't Murray say that Waggot was made CEO because he had put so much money into the club in a short space of time, and his position needed to reflect that? Sounds like good value for money to me.
[cite]Posted By: Chunes[/cite]Didn't Murray say that Waggot was made CEO because he had put so much money into the club in a short space of time, and his position needed to reflect that? Sounds like good value for money to me.
Chappell appointed Waggott, he worked as CEO of Charlton Community Trust. He has put no money into the Club.
From the OS...
Charlton plc chairman Derek Chappell headed the club's appointment panel, and said: "We interviewed a number of candidates and were hugely impressed by Steve's energy and enthusiasm for the role.
"He has also done a tremendous job in building the trust into the successful operation it is today."
Chappell added: "Over the next eight weeks he will be working closely with Peter on a detailed handover process, and I am very much looking forward to working with him.
"I think we will make a good team and one which will not leave any stone unturned as we work to build a successful football club."
Sorry guys, I still think this is the wrong time to have this sort of 'inhouse' squabble.
We have a bigger issue and that is winning tommorows game! If we do not then by all means throw this open to public debate.
Frankly, Fleet street is hardly waiting with baited breath about the demise of Charlton. It really is a side collumn interest, with all that is going on with the FA and bribes, The European cup final, and the world cup , plus all the other play offs we are too say the least small beer!. In fact we are the froth!. Sorry to upset people, but the local rags are not going to set the world alight, or bring us a new investor. If Airman, want's to chance his arm with an attack on club officials, he is big enough, to fight his own corner!.
Does not seem like Patrick Collins style as well, seems more like a local 'hack' trying to stoke up a bit of a fuss, beacause of the playoffs, which is probably why it is in the paper!. Frankly if I was on the newsdesk and saw this I would say.... so what!. Can we not get back to focussing on the game for tommorow eh!
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]No, he hasn't. He's made the same fatal mistake that people have been making for years and is why football is in such a mess.
Yes, we're fans and we care and are loyal to the point of stupidity, etc. But football ultimately is a business the same as any other. There are profits and losses and paople get hired and fired. Contracts are entered into and - despite what some think - can't simply be ripped up at a whim. Like it or not we ARE consumers, customers, punters, mugs - choose your own word. It's been like this for years so there is no point trying to pretend otherwise.
The sooner people wake up and realise this the more chance there is of moving forward. But it won't happen. People will still moan that we haven't spent a million on a new centre forward because generally most peiple/fans don't have the first idea about running a business - but it doesn't stop them going on like they're some sort of Mr Big.
Ah well, you can lead a horse to water ....
Football is not a business the same as ‘any other’. The Charlton supporters who post on here and still go to matches are not consumers or customers. They are fans. If football was like any other business Charlton would have died in 1985. If it was like any other business its customers would have simply moved to another brand when it virtually went bust all those years ago. It is only because of the fans who took over the club, the fans who continued to support the club at Selhurst park and Upton Park and the fans who worked so hard to facilitate a return to the Valley, that this club still exists. Man United, Chelsea, Real Madrid and a few other clubs might see it as important to develop a world wide brand and to regard their fans as consumers but all other clubs are sustained by their fans. I feel confident that even Portsmouth FC will still be around in 5 years time. What other business could be run into the ground by reckless risk taking by its board but still expect to survive in some shape or form because the ‘consumers’ of its product won’t let it die?
When Steve Waggott was appointed he said "It has been one of my dreams to run a football club, it's a great opportunity’. I suspect that when Pete Varney was appointed as CEO of Charlton he thought ‘It has been one of my dreams to run Charlton Athletic football club’. I think when the board and the admin staff are again dominated by Charlton fans, rather than people who see it as a job in a business like any other, the better.
The board is the board. They do what they want - they basically own the club. They don't need to be given a "remit".
Bored with this now. I'm off.[/quote]
no they bloody well don't when we raised money via the vip scheme one of the proviso's was we would have a fans director.End of,the directors at the time are still there now until the club is sold they can't change the rules and should never have bloody well been able to change the rules.
The board is the board. They do what they want - they basically own the club. They don't need to be given a "remit".
Bored with this now. I'm off.
no they bloody well don't when we raised money via the vip scheme one of the proviso's was we would have a fans director.End of,the directors at the time are still there now until the club is sold they can't change the rules and should never have bloody well been able to change the rules.
The Board giveth and the Board taketh away.
Which is not a surprise given:
1. The elected director was specifically brought in as a feature of the VIP Scheme, which ended some 6 years ago. The board was not obliged to renew it after the VIP Scheme ended but did so because a number of members of the board (and others) argued that fans valued it.
2. That was somewhat undermined by the pathetic turnout time after time in Director elections.
i agree the voting was pathetic, and we do have ourselves to blame, things were going swimmingly in the prem and now we vent our frustrations,but when it was announced it would end i expressed my resevations and continue to do so.Who would have thought 8 years ago when we played Dagenham & Redbridge in the cup,that we could be playing them in a league game next season !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]i agree the voting was pathetic, and we do have ourselves to blame, things were going swimmingly in the prem and now we vent our frustrations,but when it was announced it would end i expressed my resevations and continue to do so.Who would have thought 8 years ago when we played Dagenham & Redbridge in the cup,that we could be playing them in a league game next season !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with you NSS. With respect to the Fans Forum, it was a big mistake for the board to scrap it and very unfortunate that supporters hadn't shown more interest at the elections.
just drives a wedge between us when we should be pulling together, I love this club with every breath in my body, and it hurts like hell to think of the implications if we dont go up.
I believe the common internet response to such rumour-mongering is "pics or it didn't happen". Can the journo concerned back up his story with screenshots of the comments that he is quoting? If not, I think a retraction is in order.
Comments
Sll, know what threads to participate in, and others just to read
Your ball and all that, but I'll continue to (try to) post my views if I disagree with something - same as anyone else is welcome to - as long as it's not offensive.
Why is this not suitable for him to post in? Made a valid point... if he was just on a wind-up i could see your point - but he's not
Off_it, I certainly understand this, and I can assure everyone that Airman Brown does too. For example, Valley Express, which he helped both to create and implement, was carefully costed from the first day to be a balanced-book operation. At the same time, as everyone knows, this club is his abiding passion. This thread has turned to a discussion about whether his criticisms of Waggott are justified, and whether he should put them about as he has done. He's convinced me on the first, I have my doubts about the second, but for sure he's doing it for Charlton, not for himself. Anyway, he is not, as AFKA said, the source. As Goonerhater said, the last medium he'd co-operate with is the Daily Mail. I would treat it with the contempt it deserves (and if anyone could persuade me how to get my Mum to do the same, please advise me :-))
Mick Collins I had a fairly high regard for your views in the past but you have over stepped the mark in the timing of this piece.
Surely any consequences arising from his posts should be his concern and his concern only, and I imagine he knows the possible ramifications before posting. The fact that his obvious grievances haven't been heard by those above him does worry me, as any decent organisation should have processes for them to be heard, the fact the club hasn't is a little worrying.
But it's some crap journalism in a 2-bob paper so don't get wound up by it. Any club relegated twice in 3 years is going to have financial issues, and I imagine these will affect the make up of the playing staff next season whatever division we are in. But it shouldn't affect what happens on the pitch tomorrow, so let's just forget the bigger picture for 30 hours or whatever and focus on supporting the team.
Mick Collins didnt write the piece in question, Derek Hunter did. You can find his other work for the Daily Fail here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=y&authornamef=Derek+Hunter
Mick Collins I had a fairly high regard for your views in the past but you have over stepped the mark in the timing of this piece.[/quote]
Mick Collins didnt write the piece in question, Derek Hunter did. You can find his other work for the Daily Fail here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=y&authornamef=Derek+Hunter[/quote]
i think this was feed to him by mick collins imo, he was on this site last week
Shouldn't this be kept in house?
Is Collins complicit in the Mail's exposure of this; also this follows the other Mail story about impending admin.
At the very least it's indiscreet and unhelpful or is there some other agenda from these purported Charlton fans?
(Sorry if I've missed the point)
We gave up a real safety-net when we allowed the board to scrap the fans' elected member. There is a lot of Valley Party history on this site at the moment and it's all about going to a match and being handed a bit of paper which says we are going to groundshare.
The Valley Party and the VIP scheme (along with others) got us back to our ground (with only a 7000 capacity!) and in return, fans were allowed to elect a representative at the highest level. We allowed the Board to scrap this benefit without so much as a whimper.
Now we all sit here reading made-up stuff from the Mail or relying on Airman to keep us informed.
Rant over.
The board is the board. They do what they want - they basically own the club. They don't need to be given a "remit".
Bored with this now. I'm off.
The board is the board. They do what they want - they basically own the club. They don't need to be given a "remit".
Bored with this now. I'm off.[/quote]
So we could turn up for Monday's game and find out we are now the MK Addicks - and that would be OK because the board basically own the club ?
Not for me.
Chappell appointed Waggott, he worked as CEO of Charlton Community Trust. He has put no money into the Club.
From the OS...
Charlton plc chairman Derek Chappell headed the club's appointment panel, and said: "We interviewed a number of candidates and were hugely impressed by Steve's energy and enthusiasm for the role.
"He has also done a tremendous job in building the trust into the successful operation it is today."
Chappell added: "Over the next eight weeks he will be working closely with Peter on a detailed handover process, and I am very much looking forward to working with him.
"I think we will make a good team and one which will not leave any stone unturned as we work to build a successful football club."
They don't 'own' the Club.
They are it's current trustees.
We have a bigger issue and that is winning tommorows game! If we do not then by all means throw this open to public debate.
Frankly, Fleet street is hardly waiting with baited breath about the demise of Charlton. It really is a side collumn interest, with all that is going on with the FA and bribes, The European cup final, and the world cup , plus all the other play offs we are too say the least small beer!. In fact we are the froth!. Sorry to upset people, but the local rags are not going to set the world alight, or bring us a new investor. If Airman, want's to chance his arm with an attack on club officials, he is big enough, to fight his own corner!.
Does not seem like Patrick Collins style as well, seems more like a local 'hack' trying to stoke up a bit of a fuss, beacause of the playoffs, which is probably why it is in the paper!.
Frankly if I was on the newsdesk and saw this I would say.... so what!. Can we not get back to focussing on the game for tommorow eh!
When Steve Waggott was appointed he said "It has been one of my dreams to run a football club, it's a great opportunity’. I suspect that when Pete Varney was appointed as CEO of Charlton he thought ‘It has been one of my dreams to run Charlton Athletic football club’. I think when the board and the admin staff are again dominated by Charlton fans, rather than people who see it as a job in a business like any other, the better.
The board is the board. They do what they want - they basically own the club. They don't need to be given a "remit".
Bored with this now. I'm off.[/quote]
no they bloody well don't when we raised money via the vip scheme one of the proviso's was we would have a fans director.End of,the directors at the time are still there now until the club is sold they can't change the rules and should never have bloody well been able to change the rules.
The Board giveth and the Board taketh away.
Which is not a surprise given:
1. The elected director was specifically brought in as a feature of the VIP Scheme, which ended some 6 years ago. The board was not obliged to renew it after the VIP Scheme ended but did so because a number of members of the board (and others) argued that fans valued it.
2. That was somewhat undermined by the pathetic turnout time after time in Director elections.
We've only got ourselves to blame therefore.
Oh I hope so :-)
I agree with you NSS. With respect to the Fans Forum, it was a big mistake for the board to scrap it and very unfortunate that supporters hadn't shown more interest at the elections.