We all know our financial position is precarious - doesn't need a genius to work that out.
Waggot isn't massively popular amongst the fans - doesn't need a genius to work that out.
We have journalists and people with no affiliation to the club on here -doesn't need a genius to work that out.
Maybe Airman's comments were misguided , maybe not, but at the end of the day nothing has changed! If potential investors are put off from buying us because of Waggott's perceived unpopularity then they probably aren't that interested in us.
We should just be focusing on 1 thing and only that. 745 tomorrow night. The biggest game in many years
[cite]Posted By: Swisdom[/cite]Seems to me a lot of fuss about nothing.
We all know our financial position is precarious - doesn't need a genius to work that out.
Waggot isn't massively popular amongst the fans - doesn't need a genius to work that out.
We have journalists and people with no affiliation to the club on here -doesn't need a genius to work that out.
Maybe Airman's comments were misguided , maybe not, but at the end of the day nothing has changed! If potential investors are put off from buying us because of Waggott's perceived unpopularity then they probably aren't that interested in us.
We should just be focusing on 1 thing and only that. 745 tomorrow night. The biggest game in many years
Yes, it's great that people feel they can be open and post on here. But a line has to be drawn somewhere.
This isn't about not wanting to hear bad news - those comments are pathetic - but it's about professionalism. In my game you get sacked for that sort of thing - and quite rightly so. Taking football out of it for one minute, You can't publicly slag off your employer to their cusomers - no matter how "right" you might be.
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]Some of you just don't get it do you?
Yes, it's great that people feel they can be open and post on here. But a line has to be drawn somewhere.
This isn't about not wanting to hear bad news - those comments are pathetic - but it's about professionalism. In my game you get sacked for that sort of thing - and quite rightly so. Taking football out of it for one minute, You can't publicly slag off your employer to their cusomers - no matter how "right" you might be.
I don't disagree with you Off_it, but if you are a fan you sometimes you have to put the club above your personal situation and be prepared to accept any consequences that come your way if that's what it takes.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]Some of you just don't get it do you?
Yes, it's great that people feel they can be open and post on here. But a line has to be drawn somewhere.
This isn't about not wanting to hear bad news - those comments are pathetic - but it's about professionalism. In my game you get sacked for that sort of thing - and quite rightly so. Taking football out of it for one minute, You can't publicly slag off your employer to their cusomers - no matter how "right" you might be.[/quote]
But you can't take football out of it because football is a unique business and so are the jobs within it. Obviously i don't know your work but i doubt you have discussions with thousands of interested others on a public forum nor spend lots of money supporting your employers.
If Airman can't make negative views on here because he works for the club then he can't be allowed to make positive views either. IT also then extends that he can't comment on what he thinks about Charlton players incase it effects transfer dealings or upsets the player performance....
If the posts were a vindictive personal crusade repeatedly started by one person, or they were of personal natures about affairs or whatever then i would agree they'd be wrong. But as a response to others uninformed opinions i don't see a problem with it.
if you want my take on the mos story i think it looks like a bit of office banter...in the red corner we have a world class journo who just happens to be a charlton fan and in the blue corner this week we have his colleagues on a wind up...dont we all do something similar in our respective work places ?...if charlton and every other team (in the world) didn't have a financial issue then that would be the real news story...
Ah, the old "football is different" argument. Funny how that always gets trotted out to suit an argument - from either side.
I doubt an employment tribunal would make the distinction, or a court of law.
Anyway, have got the greatest respect for AB and the work he has done so don't want this to appear vindictive in any way - it's not. As I said before, let's hope that's all there is to it.
Waggott was the one who last week told a CASC meeting he was working 24/7 flat out for the Club, only to find out a few days later following on from the away ticket fiasco, he was nowhere to be seen at the Club, wasn't at the FL meeting in Wallsall and hadn't been involved in the decision making process.
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]Some of you just don't get it do you?
Yes, it's great that people feel they can be open and post on here. But a line has to be drawn somewhere.
This isn't about not wanting to hear bad news - those comments are pathetic - but it's about professionalism. In my game you get sacked for that sort of thing - and quite rightly so. Taking football out of it for one minute, You can't publicly slag off your employer to their cusomers - no matter how "right" you might be.
Since when did football fans become consumers?
And since when did fans have to become "professional" about their feelings and passion for their club?
I saw what Airman said the other week, as a neutral it was refreshing to read someone within a club being honest and confirming what many of you already seemed to know. If I were a Charlton fan I'd be happy to know there is someone there keeping me in the loop but also willing to make his feelings clear and wish to seek the best for the club.
This isn't a usual business, this ain't some office bod writing a blog about their executive board or writing a letter to an industry magazine slagging their company off...there isn't the passion or love involved to do that. Football invokes more than your day to day job.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Daggs[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Airman Brown[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]In my view your comments were ill-judged and poorly timed, at best. Seriously, in most other professions you would be looking at formal disciplinary action. Maybe that's what you were trying to provoke - a big showdown at the OK Coral. For all our sakes - yours included - I hope it doesn't come to that.[/quote]
Off_it, why has no such action been taken thus far, do you think? I would welcome a process in which the contribution of the chief executive to the running of the club is examined by members of the board and senior staff are able to give their views on the record.[/quote]
I wouldn't be to confident if i were in your shoes Airman. It may well be the club are, like many here, waiting for the season to end. Whether that is tomorrow or May 29th.[/quote]
Is this the club that said it would judge Parkinson on results and then despite an awful run, kept him on? Wonder why that was?
1/ why would Airman take this news to the Mail ? surely if he was he would take it to the fountain of all truth and knowledge The Guardain 2/ Since when did we see anything good in any paper about CAFC 3/ No matter how well The Board have done to get us back to The Valley, The Prem years etc surely all would agree they have made some huge f**k ups in that last 3/4 years. These mistakes aint the fault of one man we are not yet a dictatorship. 4/ Did we really think that we were on a sound finacial footing ? what did people think the sale of Shelvey for not very much was all about ? 5/ There are dark days ahead -- not doubt about it--- but we have been in darker places before. 6/ Its all Gordon Browns fault .
Personaly I dont want to hear about an employees grievances with his superiors at work on a public forum...not the first time Ive said this...personally tired of the sniping thats been going on all season at every opportunity. Forums are wonderful things in the main, but for me this is where it all oversteps the mark. If I wasnt happy working for someone then Id move on as I have more than once in the past. And having said that all the good work that AB has put in over the years just gets swept away with all the vitriol, seems to me that it will all end in tears and thats a shame for all parties.
You're fans, it's your club, you were there before the board and will still be there after the board, you ain't a "consumer" of the Charlton "brand". You are what Charlton is. That's what is killing football, football clubs looking to milk us dry as customers and not understanding what it's really all about.
No, he hasn't. He's made the same fatal mistake that people have been making for years and is why football is in such a mess.
Yes, we're fans and we care and are loyal to the point of stupidity, etc. But football ultimately is a business the same as any other. There are profits and losses and paople get hired and fired. Contracts are entered into and - despite what some think - can't simply be ripped up at a whim. Like it or not we ARE consumers, customers, punters, mugs - choose your own word. It's been like this for years so there is no point trying to pretend otherwise.
The sooner people wake up and realise this the more chance there is of moving forward. But it won't happen. People will still moan that we haven't spent a million on a new centre forward because generally most peiple/fans don't have the first idea about running a business - but it doesn't stop them going on like they're some sort of Mr Big.
[cite]Posted By: Telnotinoz[/cite]Personaly I dont want to hear about an employees grievances with his superiors at work on a public forum...not the first time Ive said this...personally tired of the sniping thats been going on all season at every opportunity. Forums are wonderful things in the main, but for me this is where it all oversteps the mark. If I wasnt happy working for someone then Id move on as I have more than once in the past. And having said that all the good work that AB has put in over the years just gets swept away with all the vitriol, seems to me that it will all end in tears and thats a shame for all parties.
Tel, neither do I, but it's not a personal grievance. It's about the governance of the club and what I have said reflects a very widely held concern. The club may or may not be able to shut me up - it won't in the end be able to suppress a settled view that is held at every level and throughout the organisation, as well as beyond it.
Sadly you put your point across as a very bitter and angry individual, not as well reasoned argument backed up by fellow staff members and with the clubs future at heart.
At the end of it all I fail to see how you making public attacks on the CEO to be in the interests of the club.
I understand that you might like to put these comments privately to the board but are unable to, but sadly many people work for rubbish bosses. They have to suck it up. That's the downside of not being the boss.
[cite]Posted By: Harveys Trainer[/cite]Sadly you put your point across as a very bitter and angry individual, not as well reasoned argument backed up by fellow staff members and with the clubs future at heart.
.
Have you even read what was said? I don't see how any of it came across as bitter or angry.
SoundAsa£ said that Waggot was very well liked by the staff down at the valley, AB (along with others) pointed out this simply wasnt the case.
[cite]Posted By: Harveys Trainer[/cite]Sadly you put your point across as a very bitter and angry individual, not as well reasoned argument backed up by fellow staff members and with the clubs future at heart.
.
Have you even read what was said? I don't see how any of it came across as bitter or angry.
SoundAsa£ said that Waggot was very well liked by the staff down at the valley, AB (along with others) pointed out this simply wasnt the case.
I have indeed read it and I think to state that he restricted himself to simply pointing out this fact is under-stating his input, After-all we're not just talking about one comment he made on the post are we.
[cite]Posted By: Harveys Trainer[/cite]Sadly you put your point across as a very bitter and angry individual, not as well reasoned argument backed up by fellow staff members and with the clubs future at heart.
At the end of it all I fail to see how you making public attacks on the CEO to be in the interests of the club.
I understand that you might like to put these comments privately to the board but are unable to, but sadly many people work for rubbish bosses. They have to suck it up. That's the downside of not being the boss.
If it is a necessary trigger leading to the departure of someone who is not providing value for money then it is in the best interests of the club. Directors are well aware that there is significant and influential support for what I am saying.
Comments
We all know our financial position is precarious - doesn't need a genius to work that out.
Waggot isn't massively popular amongst the fans - doesn't need a genius to work that out.
We have journalists and people with no affiliation to the club on here -doesn't need a genius to work that out.
Maybe Airman's comments were misguided , maybe not, but at the end of the day nothing has changed! If potential investors are put off from buying us because of Waggott's perceived unpopularity then they probably aren't that interested in us.
We should just be focusing on 1 thing and only that. 745 tomorrow night. The biggest game in many years
Spot on.
Yes, it's great that people feel they can be open and post on here. But a line has to be drawn somewhere.
This isn't about not wanting to hear bad news - those comments are pathetic - but it's about professionalism. In my game you get sacked for that sort of thing - and quite rightly so. Taking football out of it for one minute, You can't publicly slag off your employer to their cusomers - no matter how "right" you might be.
I don't disagree with you Off_it, but if you are a fan you sometimes you have to put the club above your personal situation and be prepared to accept any consequences that come your way if that's what it takes.
Yes, it's great that people feel they can be open and post on here. But a line has to be drawn somewhere.
This isn't about not wanting to hear bad news - those comments are pathetic - but it's about professionalism. In my game you get sacked for that sort of thing - and quite rightly so. Taking football out of it for one minute, You can't publicly slag off your employer to their cusomers - no matter how "right" you might be.[/quote]
But you can't take football out of it because football is a unique business and so are the jobs within it. Obviously i don't know your work but i doubt you have discussions with thousands of interested others on a public forum nor spend lots of money supporting your employers.
If Airman can't make negative views on here because he works for the club then he can't be allowed to make positive views either. IT also then extends that he can't comment on what he thinks about Charlton players incase it effects transfer dealings or upsets the player performance....
If the posts were a vindictive personal crusade repeatedly started by one person, or they were of personal natures about affairs or whatever then i would agree they'd be wrong. But as a response to others uninformed opinions i don't see a problem with it.
I doubt an employment tribunal would make the distinction, or a court of law.
Anyway, have got the greatest respect for AB and the work he has done so don't want this to appear vindictive in any way - it's not. As I said before, let's hope that's all there is to it.
Justifiable criticism if you ask me.
The MoS article is just hyperbole.
Since when did football fans become consumers?
And since when did fans have to become "professional" about their feelings and passion for their club?
I saw what Airman said the other week, as a neutral it was refreshing to read someone within a club being honest and confirming what many of you already seemed to know. If I were a Charlton fan I'd be happy to know there is someone there keeping me in the loop but also willing to make his feelings clear and wish to seek the best for the club.
This isn't a usual business, this ain't some office bod writing a blog about their executive board or writing a letter to an industry magazine slagging their company off...there isn't the passion or love involved to do that. Football invokes more than your day to day job.
Off_it, why has no such action been taken thus far, do you think? I would welcome a process in which the contribution of the chief executive to the running of the club is examined by members of the board and senior staff are able to give their views on the record.[/quote]
I wouldn't be to confident if i were in your shoes Airman. It may well be the club are, like many here, waiting for the season to end. Whether that is tomorrow or May 29th.[/quote]
Is this the club that said it would judge Parkinson on results and then despite an awful run, kept him on? Wonder why that was?
I'd assume he meant to type customers.
I am sure you will soon be able to air your grievencies at your Disciplinary.
1/ why would Airman take this news to the Mail ? surely if he was he would take it to the fountain of all truth and knowledge The Guardain
2/ Since when did we see anything good in any paper about CAFC
3/ No matter how well The Board have done to get us back to The Valley, The Prem years etc surely all would agree they have made some huge f**k ups in that last 3/4 years. These mistakes aint the fault of one man we are not yet a dictatorship.
4/ Did we really think that we were on a sound finacial footing ? what did people think the sale of Shelvey for not very much was all about ?
5/ There are dark days ahead -- not doubt about it--- but we have been in darker places before.
6/ Its all Gordon Browns fault .
Consumers / customers / punters - whichever term, we ain't that.
You're fans, it's your club, you were there before the board and will still be there after the board, you ain't a "consumer" of the Charlton "brand". You are what Charlton is. That's what is killing football, football clubs looking to milk us dry as customers and not understanding what it's really all about.
Airman DID NOT say the things quoted in the article on here, or any other 'internet messageboard.
Whether he was right / wrong / unprofessional / fan-first in insinuating things againgst senior managment is purely your own personal opinion.
But you will not find on here the alleged quotes because as far as I'm aware, he did not say them.
Just remember that fact.
Now why don't you go and play with your own kind.
Big difference.
Not according to Off_It I haven't.
Apparently football and business are the same and should be treated as such.
I assume when he does something right at work he runs around the site/office/shop celebrating and chanting the name of his company.
Yes, we're fans and we care and are loyal to the point of stupidity, etc. But football ultimately is a business the same as any other. There are profits and losses and paople get hired and fired. Contracts are entered into and - despite what some think - can't simply be ripped up at a whim. Like it or not we ARE consumers, customers, punters, mugs - choose your own word. It's been like this for years so there is no point trying to pretend otherwise.
The sooner people wake up and realise this the more chance there is of moving forward. But it won't happen. People will still moan that we haven't spent a million on a new centre forward because generally most peiple/fans don't have the first idea about running a business - but it doesn't stop them going on like they're some sort of Mr Big.
Ah well, you can lead a horse to water ....
Still, you stick where you are - small club small mind.
Tel, neither do I, but it's not a personal grievance. It's about the governance of the club and what I have said reflects a very widely held concern. The club may or may not be able to shut me up - it won't in the end be able to suppress a settled view that is held at every level and throughout the organisation, as well as beyond it.
At the end of it all I fail to see how you making public attacks on the CEO to be in the interests of the club.
I understand that you might like to put these comments privately to the board but are unable to, but sadly many people work for rubbish bosses. They have to suck it up. That's the downside of not being the boss.
You've got your view, other people have their own.
Don't get the hump because people won't automatically agree with you.
You made some good points above and I agree mostly, but that's not the issue, it was about Airman Brown and his comments. That's all.
Have you even read what was said? I don't see how any of it came across as bitter or angry.
SoundAsa£ said that Waggot was very well liked by the staff down at the valley, AB (along with others) pointed out this simply wasnt the case.
Am literally sitting on the khazi just thinking about it.
I have indeed read it and I think to state that he restricted himself to simply pointing out this fact is under-stating his input, After-all we're not just talking about one comment he made on the post are we.
If it is a necessary trigger leading to the departure of someone who is not providing value for money then it is in the best interests of the club. Directors are well aware that there is significant and influential support for what I am saying.