This is a great thread because it really touches a raw nerve in us all.
I have a lot of time for both SHG and. Stu's views
Sometimes booing is the most effective way for fans to get their point across that they are not happy.
More specifically I think that there was a lot of pent up resentment from last weeks mauling at Millwall that was just waiting to come out.
Having said that, I also feel strongly that a lot of us really haven't accepted the new reality of our situation and have way too high expectations of the present squad and management. I'm as guilty of this as the next man; we've fallen so far so quickly
A little perspective is called for.
We are 3rd for a reason.
What's more the prospect of promotion is a realistic one.
Nevertheless i sense a real possibility that we could become possibly the first team ever to have their promotion push scuppered by their own supporters.
Not that I would expect any of the boo boys to accept their part in any failure - it will all be Parky and the teams fault.
But that view presumes that Parky and the team are unaffected by the actions of the fans; when Mooney has proved that they clearly are.
Just my opinion
Good grief - a thread about whether people should be "allowed" to boo or not, who gets upset and how it dissapoints people. What should we do with the season ticket arrangements to stop them being allowed in ? Amazingly poor point of view - just in my opinion though.
I will boo or not boo to my heart's content. If the team play like a bunch of gnomes then I will let them know. If they put some effort in, hit their team mates with passes, don't get shouldered off the ball by the wind etc (whose shot yesterday went out for a throw in ?) then I will communicate this to the players in a positive way at the game - I can't imagine any other way of being able to communicate with the deities wearing the shirt I had to pay for.
As the crowd of booers is a minority how about if all those who think booing is a crime made some noise, stood up, cheered, applauded and indeed did anything but "turn up for 49 years"
"Support ?" naming your child Bob Bolder doesn't really mean much when the players on the pitch in front of you play like a bunch of losers. I don't imagine they know who you are let alone the names of your family. Nor do I imagine they care.
If you want to overcome the booing then make some noise. Is this the same thread where someone said we should de-segregate the stadium and raise the prices to weed out the more vocal, perhaps younger, definately more passionate supporters? Disgrace.
At the end all the boos went to Parkinson as he ran away to the bar; the "players" were mostly applauded or ignored.
[cite]Posted By: Six-a-bag-of-nuts[/cite]Having said that, I also feel strongly that a lot of us really haven't accepted the new reality of our situation and have way too high expectations of the present squad and management. I'm as guilty of this as the next man; we've fallen so far so quickly
A little perspective is called for.
We are 3rd for a reason.
What's more the prospect of promotion is a realistic one.
Expectations are what this is all about, if we don't go up this season, those expectations will have to adjust for the good of the club.
I can understand views that we should be promoted with this squad, but what I just don't agree with is the idea that we should be walking this league. We're some way off being that good, that's not Parky's fault, the reality is we simply aren't at that level. This feels so similar to a couple of years ago to me, when we expected Thomas, Ambrose, Holland, Zheng etc to be too good for the Championship. Two years on, no one could claim any of the midfield we had was too good for the Championship. Only midfielder that could be considered that good would have been Andy Reid.
We're not the only club like this though, there are Leeds fans that think Grayson isn't good enough as well. If we don't go up I'd like to think we could challenge for promotion next season, but realistically we might have to rebuild the squad over at least a couple of seasons.
Of course if we don't go up it's not going to be down to the fans, but it certainly doesn't help while good support can help as proven in the past.
Booing is negative feedback, cheering is positive, end of for me, I know which I would prefer to be on the end of. If I constantly heckled my team at work their productivity and will to work would be diminished, I don't see a footballer as any different. Critical constructive feedback will always be necessary though and is sometimes painful to give, booing is downright destructive
i am reading this off phone so too many long posts but if read right if i were standing next to stu an he booed i would clip his ear. I wanted to leave with two mins of extra time because i couldn bear to stay an hear the boos. It makes me want to cry watching the players leaving that. Regardless how bad. Tho Last sat they did deserve it. Booing is putting me off going as it makes me cringe. I hate you booers. We have some jockies that support us. Oh lats you just made the point i have been trying to make for ages... If i type the wrong figure in a cheque or a typo i do not expect my boss to come out his office an boo me. That would shake me up an perform worse but make me think sod you im off. Mind you that might be a good thing... We could play our youth. Hate our fans i really do.
[cite]Posted By: Paulbaconsarnie[/cite]it's not a "premiership fan" thing. it's been there before Len.
when i first started going charlton without my dad, it was Mark Aizlewood who used to get it. (can't remember who the v sign was against).
aizlewood was absolute tosh at the beginning of his career and was booed for it (and being welsh;-) i think he netted two against the mighty shrewsbury(4-2?) in the game you mentioned above where he gave it to our booers and from a season or so of being booed aizlewood turned into a success story pushing us to top flight promotion and playing for wales a successful result for the booers pushing him onto success......
Who in their right mind goes on a forum to whinge on about booing...?
You should take in a few matches at the SoL, booing a lacklustre, gutless and overall shite performance is considered a grave insult to the many thousands that spend many millions every week following their team....
Booing a shite performance is not expected, it's compulsory and if players don't quickly grasp the fact that their passion for playing for Sunderland has to closely match the fan's passion then they're in for a rough ride and quite a few swaggering ponced up wad snatchers have had a very rude awakening due to their rubbish performances on the pitch...
Sunderland fans don't give a hoot on whether they are doing good or bad as long as the team put in the graft on a Saturday afternoon, anything else is just not acceptable and fans venting their wrath by booing is probably the easiest option to get the players to buck up the ideas, and believe me, it works...
Someone mentioned Pompey fans and the way they get behind the team regardless, all very admirable but where are they now? What sort of mixed messages are the players getting? Play good every week, fans cheer, play shite every week, fans cheer, why bother upping their game if the fans are gonna be happy regardless...?
Fans pay their entrance fee, they have the right to cheer, boo, clap, jeer, always have done, always will....
no they dont havethe right to ban, clump slag off someone who pays their money and boos.
Sick of the "fans" being in the wrong.
This club has been shit for 5 years or more we still had 17,000 paying their wedge yesterday even though we had just been humiliated by the Bermondsey Pikeys. Yes 17,000 paid to watch that crap.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]no they dont havethe right to ban, clump slag off someone who pays their money and boos.
Sick of the "fans" being in the wrong.
This club has been shit for 5 years or more we still had 17,000 paying their wedge yesterday even though we had just been humiliated by the Bermondsey Pikeys. Yes 17,000 paid to watch that crap.
Can relate to that feeling, think we all can to be honest. I'm just wondering if anything can be rescued, even at this stage. Maybe I'm just being hopelessly naive, I just genuinely believe that we stand a better chance of some recovery if we cheer the players on. But maybe it's all too late now. I'm not blaming the fans at all, I might even have been tempted to join in at Milwall if I hadn't left early. Desperation and Parky's ill-timed comments have divided us, and that is a tragic situation.
I don't boo myself but can sort of understand why some do....though I don't condone it being done to an individual player............ or manager come to that.
Don’t get booing your own team, I am as frustrated as anyone when we don’t play well or are not winning but I could never boo!
I also don’t get how people can be so quick to get on Parky’s back, the guy has down is doing a good job with what he has to work with we don’t have a right to walk this league just because we used to be in the PL.
As some others have said - It is not the booing that gets on my wick at the Valley - It is the total lack of vocal, or even clapping, support from pretty much most of the attendance.
This, in my opinion, is far more negative than the occasional boo. If some had it their way, we would all just sit there like statues, and walk out at the end saying "better luck next time chaps"
Get a grip you guys and realise that the people who do boo, and I was not one of them, care about our club as much as anyone else and they are probably also the people who cheer and sing as well at the top of their voices, as most of the stadium does not.
And why shouldn't they boo? If Westlife came on stage and gave a particularly bad rendition of "Flying without wings" I'd be booing well into the encore, actually I'd probably boo them from the get-go: bad example!
The last two times I've been to the Valley I've ended up having a barney with another "supporter". It's really sickening and putting me off going. I've booked flights down for Norwich and Leeds games, but haven't bought tickets yet - finding it difficult to decide whether to sit among the boo-ers in the NU or with the anti-Lloyd Sam brigade in the East.
I want my Charlton back - from the fans who don't (won't) live up to that name.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]The last two times I've been to the Valley I've ended up having a barney with another "supporter". It's really sickening and putting me off going. I've booked flights down for Norwich and Leeds games, but haven't bought tickets yet - finding it difficult to decide whether to sit among the boo-ers in the NU or with the anti-Lloyd Sam brigade in the East.
I want my Charlton back - from the fans who don't (won't) live up to that name.
It doesn't make sense why you would get into an argument with a supporter who is booing and then complain about booing yourself? Surely the reason you were irritated is that you (and the booer) had something in common: you were both disgruntled at the performance but turned on each other instead of cheering the team on. I reckon that booer wants his Charlton back too!
Whether fans boo, cry or laugh it doesnt matter they pay their fee to have any emotion they please to have.
[cite]Posted By: Curb_It[/cite]i am reading this off phone so too many long posts but if read right if i were standing next to stu an he booed i would clip his ear. I wanted to leave with two mins of extra time because i couldn bear to stay an hear the boos. It makes me want to cry watching the players leaving that. Regardless how bad. Tho Last sat they did deserve it. Booing is putting me off going as it makes me cringe. I hate you booers. We have some jockies that support us. Oh lats you just made the point i have been trying to make for ages... If i type the wrong figure in a cheque or a typo i do not expect my boss to come out his office an boo me. That would shake me up an perform worse but make me think sod you im off. Mind you that might be a good thing... We could play our youth. Hate our fans i really do.
[cite]Posted By: Latimer[/cite]Booing is negative feedback, cheering is positive, end of for me, I know which I would prefer to be on the end of. If I constantly heckled my team at work their productivity and will to work would be diminished, I don't see a footballer as any different. Critical constructive feedback will always be necessary though and is sometimes painful to give, booing is downright destructive
You can't compare the 2 though. Firstly booing in an office environment just never happens. If an employee was bad at their job and performed miserably week in week out, then they'd be hauled in and warned or sacked. We as fans don't have the opportunity to do that so the players need to be told of our dissatisfaction in other ways (ie. booing). I'll admit that booing a player before the game is completely ridiculous but i fail to see why booing at half time or full time is a bad thing. Are we expected to cheer them off?
Although i think it's silly to use your office comparison, i'll do it but going the other way. Latimer - if a member of your team performed badly or made a mistake that ultimately led to your company losing out to another company or losing money, would you stand there and praise them, or tell them they did wrong? Booing is our way of telling them that we're not happy.
If an employee was warned about their performances they'd have 2 options, buck their ideas up and improve, or leave. Why would it make them perform worse? Curb it - if you were told off for making mistakes at work, i'm pretty sure you'd make sure you worked harder to not make them again, it certainly wouldn't make you perform worse.
Sorry but is "booing" new then? I've been going since the mid-70's and one of my earleist match day memories is of my grandad (and the the rest of the stand it seemed) letting the team know they were very, very, unimpressed. As someone else says it was common back then to hear "what a load of rubbish" too....and normally it was a more than accurate reflection of the game. Didn't mean that it was the default position but if the team deserved it then they got it. Big time.
I think we've all swallowed the post-'96 claptrap about footballers being 'special' and 'sensitive' to critism and responding better to 'an arm around the shoulder', etc, etc. Yes there's a place for that with some players, but at a time that the football product is more expensive and players more detached from fans than ever I think it's perfectly natural to show one's unhappiness at the performance. Do people think most players care what's said about them on forums or radio shows, becuase I suspect that most of them couldn't care less unless it's in their face on a saturday afternoon.
What I don't get is people who don't do the opposit and congratulate the team for a good performance.
but im trying to make a point at how ridiculous it is.
doesnt anyone who boos think... "actually i sound like a right ****?"
you're not at the panto - well actually i like to boo a ref... so perhaps i might have to re-think that the next time i feel a need to express a view at a ref.
Again I hate some of our fans. and i will re-post this - the blokes booing at millwall when we were one down were about 16 ish. fools.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]The last two times I've been to the Valley I've ended up having a barney with another "supporter". It's really sickening and putting me off going. I've booked flights down for Norwich and Leeds games, but haven't bought tickets yet - finding it difficult to decide whether to sit among the boo-ers in the NU or with the anti-Lloyd Sam brigade in the East.
I want my Charlton back - from the fans who don't (won't) live up to that name.
It doesn't make sense why you would get into an argument with a supporter who is booing and then complain about booing yourself? Surely the reason you were irritated is that you (and the booer) had something in common: you were both disgruntled at the performance but turned on each other instead of cheering the team on. I reckon that booer wants his Charlton back too!
Whether fans boo, cry or laugh it doesnt matter they pay their fee to have any emotion they please to have.
It wasn't about booing specifically on either occasion, and one match we won, the other we drew. There is just a general disharmony between supporters all over the ground, it seems. After every home game there's a thread or two on here re trouble/ aggro among our own fans. Sad, and quite a lot worse than I ever remember it before. I used to look forward to going for the atmosphere and camaraderie among fans, whatever the performance on the pitch. Now I don't particularly look forward to either, which makes the 1,000 mile round trip more of an effort than a pleasure.
[cite]Posted By: RedZed333[/cite]Sunderland fans don't give a hoot on whether they are doing good or bad as long as the team put in the graft on a Saturday afternoon, anything else is just not acceptable and fans venting their wrath by booing is probably the easiest option to get the players to buck up the ideas, and believe me, it works...
Someone mentioned Pompey fans and the way they get behind the team regardless, all very admirable but where are they now? What sort of mixed messages are the players getting? Play good every week, fans cheer, play shite every week, fans cheer, why bother upping their game if the fans are gonna be happy regardless...?
This isn't really a valid argument. Sunderland have hardly been a success story over the last few years - been up and down between the Premiership and Championship, have the longest ever losing streak in the Premiership and the 2nd lowest points total. When we beat them 3-0 (or 3-1?) at the SoL and that youngster scored 2 own goals on his debut, I can't imagine booing him would've helped.
Pompey have been successful in comparison, they won the FA Cup a couple of years ago. And the fight in their team at the moment is plain to see, it's just the quality that's lacking - they're playing Hermann in central defence!
Just putting this question out there to see what fans think...........
How should fans let the board/manager/team know that they disapprove ?
Should they say nothing ? Write to the chairman/manager ? Ring a phone-in radio show ?
I think the answer lies in how we deal with positive play, that is to say that when playing well we:
Take more fans to home / away matches Sing / cheer more frequently for the team Sing songs in direct praise of certain players
Given this, when playing badly - we simply do the opposite.
I recall how Deano used to get motivated by our support, based on a talk he had with his dad about the honour of having fans pay to watch you play. I also think back to the 5-2 home defeat by Sheff U when Pardew was sacked - would he have gone if we had kept quiet for another 6 matches?
Comments
So there we are, next home game all the people who usually "boo" should now "hoot"
You never know, it might catch on.
I have a lot of time for both SHG and. Stu's views
Sometimes booing is the most effective way for fans to get their point across that they are not happy.
More specifically I think that there was a lot of pent up resentment from last weeks mauling at Millwall that was just waiting to come out.
Having said that, I also feel strongly that a lot of us really haven't accepted the new reality of our situation and have way too high expectations of the present squad and management. I'm as guilty of this as the next man; we've fallen so far so quickly
A little perspective is called for.
We are 3rd for a reason.
What's more the prospect of promotion is a realistic one.
Nevertheless i sense a real possibility that we could become possibly the first team ever to have their promotion push scuppered by their own supporters.
Not that I would expect any of the boo boys to accept their part in any failure - it will all be Parky and the teams fault.
But that view presumes that Parky and the team are unaffected by the actions of the fans; when Mooney has proved that they clearly are.
Just my opinion
I will boo or not boo to my heart's content. If the team play like a bunch of gnomes then I will let them know. If they put some effort in, hit their team mates with passes, don't get shouldered off the ball by the wind etc (whose shot yesterday went out for a throw in ?) then I will communicate this to the players in a positive way at the game - I can't imagine any other way of being able to communicate with the deities wearing the shirt I had to pay for.
As the crowd of booers is a minority how about if all those who think booing is a crime made some noise, stood up, cheered, applauded and indeed did anything but "turn up for 49 years"
"Support ?" naming your child Bob Bolder doesn't really mean much when the players on the pitch in front of you play like a bunch of losers. I don't imagine they know who you are let alone the names of your family. Nor do I imagine they care.
If you want to overcome the booing then make some noise. Is this the same thread where someone said we should de-segregate the stadium and raise the prices to weed out the more vocal, perhaps younger, definately more passionate supporters? Disgrace.
At the end all the boos went to Parkinson as he ran away to the bar; the "players" were mostly applauded or ignored.
I can understand views that we should be promoted with this squad, but what I just don't agree with is the idea that we should be walking this league. We're some way off being that good, that's not Parky's fault, the reality is we simply aren't at that level. This feels so similar to a couple of years ago to me, when we expected Thomas, Ambrose, Holland, Zheng etc to be too good for the Championship. Two years on, no one could claim any of the midfield we had was too good for the Championship. Only midfielder that could be considered that good would have been Andy Reid.
We're not the only club like this though, there are Leeds fans that think Grayson isn't good enough as well. If we don't go up I'd like to think we could challenge for promotion next season, but realistically we might have to rebuild the squad over at least a couple of seasons.
Of course if we don't go up it's not going to be down to the fans, but it certainly doesn't help while good support can help as proven in the past.
to defend booing before a player has touched a ball should induce a lifetime ban, call yourslef a supporter, joke....
aizlewood was absolute tosh at the beginning of his career and was booed for it (and being welsh;-) i think he netted two against the mighty shrewsbury(4-2?) in the game you mentioned above where he gave it to our booers and from a season or so of being booed aizlewood turned into a success story pushing us to top flight promotion and playing for wales a successful result for the booers pushing him onto success......
You should take in a few matches at the SoL, booing a lacklustre, gutless and overall shite performance is considered a grave insult to the many thousands that spend many millions every week following their team....
Booing a shite performance is not expected, it's compulsory and if players don't quickly grasp the fact that their passion for playing for Sunderland has to closely match the fan's passion then they're in for a rough ride and quite a few swaggering ponced up wad snatchers have had a very rude awakening due to their rubbish performances on the pitch...
Sunderland fans don't give a hoot on whether they are doing good or bad as long as the team put in the graft on a Saturday afternoon, anything else is just not acceptable and fans venting their wrath by booing is probably the easiest option to get the players to buck up the ideas, and believe me, it works...
Someone mentioned Pompey fans and the way they get behind the team regardless, all very admirable but where are they now? What sort of mixed messages are the players getting? Play good every week, fans cheer, play shite every week, fans cheer, why bother upping their game if the fans are gonna be happy regardless...?
Fans pay their entrance fee, they have the right to cheer, boo, clap, jeer, always have done, always will....
....................................
There appears to be a majority of supporters whose view is that you don't boo your own players. Do they have any 'rights' ?
Sick of the "fans" being in the wrong.
This club has been shit for 5 years or more we still had 17,000 paying their wedge yesterday even though we had just been humiliated by the Bermondsey Pikeys. Yes 17,000 paid to watch that crap.
Can relate to that feeling, think we all can to be honest. I'm just wondering if anything can be rescued, even at this stage. Maybe I'm just being hopelessly naive, I just genuinely believe that we stand a better chance of some recovery if we cheer the players on. But maybe it's all too late now. I'm not blaming the fans at all, I might even have been tempted to join in at Milwall if I hadn't left early. Desperation and Parky's ill-timed comments have divided us, and that is a tragic situation.
Mind you, in them days players had a conscience....
I also don’t get how people can be so quick to get on Parky’s back, the guy has down is doing a good job with what he has to work with we don’t have a right to walk this league just because we used to be in the PL.
This, in my opinion, is far more negative than the occasional boo. If some had it their way, we would all just sit there like statues, and walk out at the end saying "better luck next time chaps"
Get a grip you guys and realise that the people who do boo, and I was not one of them, care about our club as much as anyone else and they are probably also the people who cheer and sing as well at the top of their voices, as most of the stadium does not.
And why shouldn't they boo? If Westlife came on stage and gave a particularly bad rendition of "Flying without wings" I'd be booing well into the encore, actually I'd probably boo them from the get-go: bad example!
I want my Charlton back - from the fans who don't (won't) live up to that name.
It doesn't make sense why you would get into an argument with a supporter who is booing and then complain about booing yourself? Surely the reason you were irritated is that you (and the booer) had something in common: you were both disgruntled at the performance but turned on each other instead of cheering the team on. I reckon that booer wants his Charlton back too!
Whether fans boo, cry or laugh it doesnt matter they pay their fee to have any emotion they please to have.
You can't compare the 2 though. Firstly booing in an office environment just never happens. If an employee was bad at their job and performed miserably week in week out, then they'd be hauled in and warned or sacked. We as fans don't have the opportunity to do that so the players need to be told of our dissatisfaction in other ways (ie. booing). I'll admit that booing a player before the game is completely ridiculous but i fail to see why booing at half time or full time is a bad thing. Are we expected to cheer them off?
Although i think it's silly to use your office comparison, i'll do it but going the other way. Latimer - if a member of your team performed badly or made a mistake that ultimately led to your company losing out to another company or losing money, would you stand there and praise them, or tell them they did wrong? Booing is our way of telling them that we're not happy.
If an employee was warned about their performances they'd have 2 options, buck their ideas up and improve, or leave. Why would it make them perform worse? Curb it - if you were told off for making mistakes at work, i'm pretty sure you'd make sure you worked harder to not make them again, it certainly wouldn't make you perform worse.
I think we've all swallowed the post-'96 claptrap about footballers being 'special' and 'sensitive' to critism and responding better to 'an arm around the shoulder', etc, etc. Yes there's a place for that with some players, but at a time that the football product is more expensive and players more detached from fans than ever I think it's perfectly natural to show one's unhappiness at the performance. Do people think most players care what's said about them on forums or radio shows, becuase I suspect that most of them couldn't care less unless it's in their face on a saturday afternoon.
What I don't get is people who don't do the opposit and congratulate the team for a good performance.
To say that you pay your money and that gives you the right to boo is ridiculous. We need SUPPORTERS and yes, booing is not SUPPORTING your club.
doesnt anyone who boos think... "actually i sound like a right ****?"
you're not at the panto - well actually i like to boo a ref... so perhaps i might have to re-think that the next time i feel a need to express a view at a ref.
Again I hate some of our fans. and i will re-post this - the blokes booing at millwall when we were one down were about 16 ish. fools.
It wasn't about booing specifically on either occasion, and one match we won, the other we drew. There is just a general disharmony between supporters all over the ground, it seems. After every home game there's a thread or two on here re trouble/ aggro among our own fans. Sad, and quite a lot worse than I ever remember it before. I used to look forward to going for the atmosphere and camaraderie among fans, whatever the performance on the pitch. Now I don't particularly look forward to either, which makes the 1,000 mile round trip more of an effort than a pleasure.
This isn't really a valid argument. Sunderland have hardly been a success story over the last few years - been up and down between the Premiership and Championship, have the longest ever losing streak in the Premiership and the 2nd lowest points total. When we beat them 3-0 (or 3-1?) at the SoL and that youngster scored 2 own goals on his debut, I can't imagine booing him would've helped.
Pompey have been successful in comparison, they won the FA Cup a couple of years ago. And the fight in their team at the moment is plain to see, it's just the quality that's lacking - they're playing Hermann in central defence!
How should fans let the board/manager/team know that they disapprove ?
Should they say nothing ?
Write to the chairman/manager ?
Ring a phone-in radio show ?
I think the answer lies in how we deal with positive play, that is to say that when playing well we:
Take more fans to home / away matches
Sing / cheer more frequently for the team
Sing songs in direct praise of certain players
Given this, when playing badly - we simply do the opposite.
I recall how Deano used to get motivated by our support, based on a talk he had with his dad about the honour of having fans pay to watch you play.
I also think back to the 5-2 home defeat by Sheff U when Pardew was sacked - would he have gone if we had kept quiet for another 6 matches?
DISCUSS