Mooney had a good game Time for Randolph to play Bailey shouldve been subbed off as he was pony most of the game Borrowdale did an okay job, big big loss is jacksons injury i think.
I thought we were a bit unlucky to go in behind at half time. We wasn't doing too badly, and in the second half we created chances but we don't have anyone at the club who can finish a game off i.e. Holt/Beckford.
That's the difference between us and being in the top 2 unfortunately.
I thought we were a bit unlucky to go in behind at half time. We wasn't doing too badly, and in the second half we created chances but we don't have anyone at the club who can finish a game off i.e. Holt/Beckford.
Exactly we really didn`t play too badly, we just don`t have any decent finishers in the side. Most of the good goals scored at the valley this season have been scored by the away sides. We still should make the play offs despite our difficult run in and fortunately the play offs are a bit of a lottery.
Clive the Addick Wrote: sorry to say tjis but shelvy has my daughter added on facebook he has said he mo longer wants to play for charlton as parky cannot garentee him a game every week .
Hasn't Gerrard and even Neckham been captains while playing the wide role ? Dont agree he should be playing but dont see why he cant lead from out there.
Whilst he should be able to lead his team mates from anywhere on the pitch, it would be more advantageous for Charlton if Bailey was playing central midfield. Easier to influence both his team mates and the game in general.
We should remeber where the team is! it is in the 3rd division. I took some friends to the game who are neutrals just came along to watch the football. They enjoyed the game as it was a contest but pointed out how poor the players football skills are in the third division particularly in passing and contolling the ball. If they had gone to see Norwich Leeds or Colchester they would have probably madethe same comments about the players skills. Finaly they did feel Charlton the better team on th day, we had more goes at goal than Gillingham.
Irrelevant to keep saying we are second, we are third, we are blah-de-blah-de-blah. We will not even be in the play-offs soon with this way of thinking.
The club, manger, players and supporters all need to stop this negative crap: where did you hope/think we would be type of BS.
Fact is we are heading into dangerous territory when even the supporters who pay their hard-earned MONEY start to accept a lack of effort and turn on their own justifiably, disgruntled supporters.
[cite]Posted By: Red5[/cite]Irrelevant to keep saying we are second, we are third, we are blah-de-blah-de-blah. We will not even be in the play-offs soon with this way of thinking.
The club, manger, players and supporters all need to stop this negative crap: where did you hope/think we would be type of BS.
Fact is we are heading into dangerous territory when even the supporters who pay their hard-earned MONEY start to accept a lack of effort and turn on their own justifiably, disgruntled supporters.
Disagree.
Nobody is accepting a lack of effort. The point is that Mooney is giving everything he has and was vilified by our fans before he even kicked a ball in anger on Saturday as BDL read his name out over the tannoy.
The "turning on other supporters" is because some of us want the team to succeed. We are not dealing with Bertie Bigbollocks like Marcus Bent slouching about here.
Most of the guys wearing our red shirt at the moment are giving their all. The trouble is we are in the third division now and their "all" is not very good.
The Charlton boo boy has never appreciated an honest player though. Kishishev was treated disgustingly during his time at the Club by the same sort of ignorant muppets whom booed Mooney before the start of the game.
apart from the Mooney booing I think the crowd are with the players but against Parky. I don't perceive a lack of trying amongst them just a lack of talent but what I do see is a Manager who isn't getting the best out of his players irrrespective of how good they are or arn't.
[cite]Posted By: Red5[/cite]LenGlover: Would you care to give me some recent examples of MOST of our players who have giving their all?
Maybe I need to get my spectacles re-adjusted?
Racon is the only one whose application I would sometimes question.
It is lack of ability rather than lack of application with the others. Deon Burton has played 35 games with a hernia! Would you accuse him of not giving his all?
Miguel Llera played with 20 odd stitches in his head wearing a scrum cap. No lack of application there but, on occasion as a third division footballer, the odd lack of ability. Millwall away being the most recent example unfortunately for him.
I do think that some of our players lack mental strength when the pressure gets cranked up. Lloyd Sam is perhaps the best example of that but that is different to lack of application and should not be confused with it. Lloyd tries alright but his bottle goes sometimes. Semedo suddenly looks like a fish out of water when in a shooting position etc, etc.
Do you not agree that Elliot, Richardson, Dailly, Llera, Sodje, Semedo, Bailey, Shelvey, Burton, Mooney and Akpo give their all? The two people will probably say don't are Racon, who at times is too casual, nor is he a battler, and Sam who I'd say does work hard but lacks confidence and that drive which would show he's putting in effort. His hard work goes unnoticed and his style of play can make him look a bit lazier than he is.
Give their all - well we have had some far worse players in the past who were better than what we now have because they gave their all, not gonna provide a list anyone who has followed our team knows who I mean.
As for the list above I don't agree with it entirely:
Bailey occasionally has a great game but lately deserves to be subbed/dropped (is not the cult-hero people make out and i certainly wouldnt let him anywhere near my wife).
Dailly has been poor lately and no better than Llera (who i actually think may be the one player, even with some drastic mistakes, that actually (for 90 minutes) gives his all.
Racon - agree totally do not know why some for calling for him to be recalled. Would replace with Shelvey, or even Spring, immediately.
I can see why you think Bailey should be dropped, not sure if I would drop him, but it's not for a lack of effort is it? More the mistakes he's making.
Dailly has been poor (though I couldn't go Saturday) I agree, but I do think he puts plenty of effort in.
We agree about Racon and I'd also prefer Shelvey in there.
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]Do you not agree that Elliot, Richardson, Dailly, Llera, Sodje, Semedo, Bailey, Shelvey, Burton, Mooney and Akpo give their all? The two people will probably say don't are Racon, who at times is too casual, nor is he a battler, and Sam who I'd say does work hard but lacks confidence and that drive which would show he's putting in effort. His hard work goes unnoticed and his style of play can make him look a bit lazier than he is.
I don't think 'giving their all' is quite as black and white as it's being described here. Not many could disagree with me saying that most of our players gave up when we went 2-0 down at Millwall, hence the rapid capitulation - and I include some of the 'triers' like Llera and Semedo in that list.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]apart from the Mooney booing I think the crowd are with the players but against Parky.
Again, I don't think this is that clear cut. I am just as disillusioned with some of our players as I am with Parky, possibly more so.
[cite]Posted By: Red5[/cite]Give their all - well we have had some far worse players in the past who were better than what we now have because they gave their all, not gonna provide a list anyone who has followed our team knows who I mean.
As for the list above I don't agree with it entirely:
Bailey occasionally has a great game but lately deserves to be subbed/dropped (is not the cult-hero people make out and i certainly wouldnt let him anywhere near my wife).
Dailly has been poor lately and no better than Llera (who i actually think may be the one player, even with some drastic mistakes, that actually (for 90 minutes) gives his all.
Racon - agree totally do not know why some for calling for him to be recalled. Would replace with Shelvey, or even Spring, immediately.
How far back do you want to go?
Guys like Les Berry were limited but proper Charlton players and made the most of what they had but in Les' time there was less pressure and expectation. The fans accepted that we were a 2nd division club and Gliksten would sell anybody half decent if the fans began to get above their station!
Richard Murray has stated that promotion is imperative which automatically exerts pressure on the players and I refer you back to my point about mental strength.
Guys like John Robinson, Steve Brown, Keith Jones made the most of their ability but were assisted by an EXCEPTIONALLY good manager. (I realise such a comment about Alan Curbishley will alienate the majority who hated boring mid table Premiership football).
Parky is not (yet) an exceptional manager but he is cut from the same cloth as Curbs and could become so.
Right now if we genuinely call ourselves Charlton fans then we should get behind Parky and the players for the remaining games.
The Summer is the time for recriminations if needed.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]Guys like John Robinson, Steve Brown, Keith Jones made the most of their ability but were assisted by an EXCEPTIONALLY good manager. (I realise such a comment about Alan Curbishley will alienate the majority who hated boring mid table Premiership football).
I nearly made a point about Brown and Robinson, but wasn't sure if he was talking about further back than that, which I wasn't around to see.
Robinson was more than just a hard working player, he still had enough quality about him to score or create a chance, or know how to defend. It's not like he had an awful touch, couldn't cross, shoot or pass, players like Jensen might have had far more in those areas, but he had enough to be a regular for Wales and a good Championship/lower Premier League player.
With Brown he did a job when called upon in the Prem, against much better strikers than we're up against today. He still knew how to defend, keep his concentration (something Llera isn't always capable of) etc.
By the time we were in the Prem, these were all very good professionals, mentally strong and consistent players with a very good manager behind them. They were more than just hard working players and surely had more ability than the players we have now. They had the ability to perform well in the Championship or as a lower Prem player. The players we have do not have that, and only a few may have that in the future.
[cite]Posted By: Carter[/cite]I thought his corners are a big plus.
He's in a run of bad form but he is a quality full back, you don't suddenly become bad but you can drop off the pace form-wise
Agreed I think there are a few that need a rest right now but we cant with the position we are in. For me FR and most definately bailey need a rest. We have a midfield that is not firing yet have a seasoned pro and very good youngster wating to get in, but instead sitck with off form players.
[cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]Bailey shouldnt be dropped....just played in the right position.
What is his best position? He's had chance after chance to play in a two man central midfield and has failed to nail down a place. We play rubbish football when he's the creative fulcrum and get overrun when he plays a more defensive role. Like i said before the last game i'd actually like to give him a go next to Shelvey but its more in hope than expectation that he's got the discipline to play a more defensive role.
[cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]Bailey shouldnt be dropped....just played in the right position.
What is his best position? He's had chance after chance to play in a two man central midfield and has failed to nail down a place. We play rubbish football when he's the creative fulcrum and get overrun when he plays a more defensive role. Like i said before the last game i'd actually like to give him a go next to Shelvey but its more in hope than expectation that he's got the discipline to play a more defensive role.
Centre Midfield without a doubt. The bloke gets no chance of striking up any kind of consistent form when he's playing in a different role every week! Swindon at home/away and Wycombe away (2nd half) he played centre mid and absolutely ran the show....next game he'll be out on the left. The mans a box to box centre midfielder all day long...not a left midfielder...yet him in charge cant see that. Semedo can hold as he rarely gets out the centre circle anyway and Shelvey can play behind Burton. Job done.
I reckon some of the criticism of Richardson is way over the top. He's clearly gone off the boil recently, carrying a niggling groin injury that would probably see him rested in different circumstances. It might be a good time to give Solly a go in his proper position, but Parky's probably reluctant to plunge him in during such a tricky time when he feels experience may be the wiser option. Earlier in the season he was excellent, overlapping well with Sam, and not letting us down defensively. Easy to forget all that though when things aren't going so well.
Affordable, injury-free, high quality experienced pros don't come easily where we are. Perhaps the season's caught up with Richardson, Dailly, & Burton, who've all suffered since Christmas. Perhaps that's why they were available on frees. Solly apart, their most likely replacements don't inspire many so perhaps we should understand that they can no longer produce their best form consistently for 9-10 months, and save the recriminations for the summer.
Comments
Time for Randolph to play
Bailey shouldve been subbed off as he was pony most of the game
Borrowdale did an okay job, big big loss is jacksons injury i think.
That's the difference between us and being in the top 2 unfortunately.
Exactly we really didn`t play too badly, we just don`t have any decent finishers in the side. Most of the good goals scored at the valley this season have been scored by the away sides. We still should make the play offs despite our difficult run in and fortunately the play offs are a bit of a lottery.
I would love you to show me where he wrote this
Surely a good captain is a good captain, wherever he plays? His position shouldn't be important, ideally you have other leaders in the team anyway.
This is the problem.
If they had gone to see Norwich Leeds or Colchester they would have probably madethe same comments about the players skills.
Finaly they did feel Charlton the better team on th day, we had more goes at goal than Gillingham.
The club, manger, players and supporters all need to stop this negative crap: where did you hope/think we would be type of BS.
Fact is we are heading into dangerous territory when even the supporters who pay their hard-earned MONEY start to accept a lack of effort and turn on their own justifiably, disgruntled supporters.
Disagree.
Nobody is accepting a lack of effort. The point is that Mooney is giving everything he has and was vilified by our fans before he even kicked a ball in anger on Saturday as BDL read his name out over the tannoy.
The "turning on other supporters" is because some of us want the team to succeed. We are not dealing with Bertie Bigbollocks like Marcus Bent slouching about here.
Most of the guys wearing our red shirt at the moment are giving their all. The trouble is we are in the third division now and their "all" is not very good.
The Charlton boo boy has never appreciated an honest player though. Kishishev was treated disgustingly during his time at the Club by the same sort of ignorant muppets whom booed Mooney before the start of the game.
Maybe I need to get my spectacles re-adjusted? We do play in red at home don't we? Don't we? Oh, I see well forget what I said then!
Racon is the only one whose application I would sometimes question.
It is lack of ability rather than lack of application with the others. Deon Burton has played 35 games with a hernia! Would you accuse him of not giving his all?
Miguel Llera played with 20 odd stitches in his head wearing a scrum cap. No lack of application there but, on occasion as a third division footballer, the odd lack of ability. Millwall away being the most recent example unfortunately for him.
I do think that some of our players lack mental strength when the pressure gets cranked up. Lloyd Sam is perhaps the best example of that but that is different to lack of application and should not be confused with it. Lloyd tries alright but his bottle goes sometimes. Semedo suddenly looks like a fish out of water when in a shooting position etc, etc.
As for the list above I don't agree with it entirely:
Bailey occasionally has a great game but lately deserves to be subbed/dropped (is not the cult-hero people make out and i certainly wouldnt let him anywhere near my wife).
Dailly has been poor lately and no better than Llera (who i actually think may be the one player, even with some drastic mistakes, that actually (for 90 minutes) gives his all.
Racon - agree totally do not know why some for calling for him to be recalled. Would replace with Shelvey, or even Spring, immediately.
Dailly has been poor (though I couldn't go Saturday) I agree, but I do think he puts plenty of effort in.
We agree about Racon and I'd also prefer Shelvey in there.
I don't think 'giving their all' is quite as black and white as it's being described here. Not many could disagree with me saying that most of our players gave up when we went 2-0 down at Millwall, hence the rapid capitulation - and I include some of the 'triers' like Llera and Semedo in that list.
Again, I don't think this is that clear cut. I am just as disillusioned with some of our players as I am with Parky, possibly more so.
How far back do you want to go?
Guys like Les Berry were limited but proper Charlton players and made the most of what they had but in Les' time there was less pressure and expectation. The fans accepted that we were a 2nd division club and Gliksten would sell anybody half decent if the fans began to get above their station!
Richard Murray has stated that promotion is imperative which automatically exerts pressure on the players and I refer you back to my point about mental strength.
Guys like John Robinson, Steve Brown, Keith Jones made the most of their ability but were assisted by an EXCEPTIONALLY good manager. (I realise such a comment about Alan Curbishley will alienate the majority who hated boring mid table Premiership football).
Parky is not (yet) an exceptional manager but he is cut from the same cloth as Curbs and could become so.
Right now if we genuinely call ourselves Charlton fans then we should get behind Parky and the players for the remaining games.
The Summer is the time for recriminations if needed.
Robinson was more than just a hard working player, he still had enough quality about him to score or create a chance, or know how to defend. It's not like he had an awful touch, couldn't cross, shoot or pass, players like Jensen might have had far more in those areas, but he had enough to be a regular for Wales and a good Championship/lower Premier League player.
With Brown he did a job when called upon in the Prem, against much better strikers than we're up against today. He still knew how to defend, keep his concentration (something Llera isn't always capable of) etc.
By the time we were in the Prem, these were all very good professionals, mentally strong and consistent players with a very good manager behind them. They were more than just hard working players and surely had more ability than the players we have now. They had the ability to perform well in the Championship or as a lower Prem player. The players we have do not have that, and only a few may have that in the future.
Agreed I think there are a few that need a rest right now but we cant with the position we are in. For me FR and most definately bailey need a rest. We have a midfield that is not firing yet have a seasoned pro and very good youngster wating to get in, but instead sitck with off form players.
What is his best position? He's had chance after chance to play in a two man central midfield and has failed to nail down a place. We play rubbish football when he's the creative fulcrum and get overrun when he plays a more defensive role. Like i said before the last game i'd actually like to give him a go next to Shelvey but its more in hope than expectation that he's got the discipline to play a more defensive role.
Centre Midfield without a doubt. The bloke gets no chance of striking up any kind of consistent form when he's playing in a different role every week! Swindon at home/away and Wycombe away (2nd half) he played centre mid and absolutely ran the show....next game he'll be out on the left. The mans a box to box centre midfielder all day long...not a left midfielder...yet him in charge cant see that. Semedo can hold as he rarely gets out the centre circle anyway and Shelvey can play behind Burton. Job done.
Affordable, injury-free, high quality experienced pros don't come easily where we are. Perhaps the season's caught up with Richardson, Dailly, & Burton, who've all suffered since Christmas. Perhaps that's why they were available on frees. Solly apart, their most likely replacements don't inspire many so perhaps we should understand that they can no longer produce their best form consistently for 9-10 months, and save the recriminations for the summer.
If only Choice had got that. Was v.funny.