Chizz you could not be further from the truth if you tried.
Wimbledon fans tried to get the club back to Merton but were told by both Sam Hamman and Charles Koppell that Merton as a borough blocked every attempt to move back to the borough, this was later proved by the council not to be the case.
Several fan protests and events were set up to publicise the issue at Wimbledon and the potential move to MK.
The fans did everything in their power to stop this, so don’t talk bollocks about them not trying and not caring about their club
[cite]Posted By: charlton_carl[/cite]Chizz you could not be further from the truth if you tried.
Wimbledon fans tried to get the club back to Merton but were told by both Sam Hamman and Charles Koppell that Merton as a borough blocked every attempt to move back to the borough, this was later proved by the council not to be the case.
Several fan protests and events were set up to publicise the issue at Wimbledon and the potential move to MK.
The fans did everything in their power to stop this, so don’t talk bollocks about them not trying and not caring about their club
I don't disagree with anything you have posted here. I just look back and see two South London clubs both having to go and share with Crystal Palace. One set of fans moved heaven and earth, worked hard and applied themselves in every conceivable way to attempt to influence, cajole and persuade "people in charge" to move their club back. The other set did very, very little (in comparison). In my opinion, both sets of fans got what they deserved.
I'd rather pay money into Simon Jordans pockets at smellhurst than EVER give my money to that slimey , club thieving toad Winkleman by paying to get into his supermarket ground.
I wont be going near the away game, Franchise FC, enough said for me, they wont get a penny from me, might go Saturday as its a home game, therefore, our revenue.
[cite]Posted By: FTP[/cite]I went to Northwich and will be going to the game away to MK Dons too. I go to football to watch and support Charlton not the opposition. I really could not care less who they are playing. Mind you, the way we are playing at the moment we will lose regardless.
This statement holds the most truth who cares who we are playing so long as its Charlton im watching i dont care. Also the loose thing a bit down but realistic i like that.
Wimbledon pulled a home attendance of 3,000 in the PREMIERSHIP, more than haf of which were Everton supporters. This isn't having a season, like we did last year, where they finished bottom and were doomed from the autumn onwards. Oh no, this was a season in which they finished in a comfortable mid-table position. So my question is, if Wimbledon fans didn't give enough of a shit about their club to show up and watch them winning in the Premiership, finishing above the likes of Everton and one spot below little old Chelsea, then why should I alter my behaviour because they lost their club as a direct result of their own lack of support for it?
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]Wimbledon pulled a home attendance of 3,000 in the PREMIERSHIP, more than haf of which were Everton supporters. This isn't having a season, like we did last year, where they finished bottom and were doomed from the autumn onwards. Oh no, this was a season in which they finished in a comfortable mid-table position. So my question is, if Wimbledon fans didn't give enough of a shit about their club to show up and watch them winning in the Premiership, finishing above the likes of Everton and one spot below little old Chelsea, then why should I alter my behaviour because they lost their club as a direct result of their own lack of support for it?
Wow, I didn't realise that.
Are you sure this was before the move to MK was proposed/finalised? And before AFC Wimbledon was established?
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]Wimbledon pulled a home attendance of 3,000 in the PREMIERSHIP, more than haf of which were Everton supporters. This isn't having a season, like we did last year, where they finished bottom and were doomed from the autumn onwards. Oh no, this was a season in which they finished in a comfortable mid-table position. So my question is, if Wimbledon fans didn't give enough of a shit about their club to show up and watch them winning in the Premiership, finishing above the likes of Everton and one spot below little old Chelsea, then why should I alter my behaviour because they lost their club as a direct result of their own lack of support for it?
Attendances should not matter, Wimbledon have always had a small hard core fan base, the rest were just hangers on, so it's OK to tell the 3000 loyal fans to get stuffed is it?
Try telling the Northwhich Victoria fans that due to small attendances they are being sold and are moving to Lancashire and will be called Wythenshawe Victoria instead, league status and attendances should not matter.
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]Wimbledon pulled a home attendance of 3,000 in the PREMIERSHIP, more than haf of which were Everton supporters. This isn't having a season, like we did last year, where they finished bottom and were doomed from the autumn onwards. Oh no, this was a season in which they finished in a comfortable mid-table position. So my question is, if Wimbledon fans didn't give enough of a shit about their club to show up and watch them winning in the Premiership, finishing above the likes of Everton and one spot below little old Chelsea, then why should I alter my behaviour because they lost their club as a direct result of their own lack of support for it?
Attendances should not matter, Wimbledon have always had a small hard core fan base, the rest were just hangers on, so it's OK to tell the 3000 loyal fans to get stuffed is it?
Try telling the Northwhich Victoria fans that due to small attendances they are being sold and are moving to Lancashire and will be called Wythenshawe Victoria instead, league status and attendances should not matter.
But sureley it is better than the club just folding mod-season and going out of existence.
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]Wimbledon pulled a home attendance of 3,000 in the PREMIERSHIP, more than haf of which were Everton supporters. This isn't having a season, like we did last year, where they finished bottom and were doomed from the autumn onwards. Oh no, this was a season in which they finished in a comfortable mid-table position. So my question is, if Wimbledon fans didn't give enough of a shit about their club to show up and watch them winning in the Premiership, finishing above the likes of Everton and one spot below little old Chelsea, then why should I alter my behaviour because they lost their club as a direct result of their own lack of support for it?
Attendances should not matter, Wimbledon have always had a small hard core fan base, the rest were just hangers on, so it's OK to tell the 3000 loyal fans to get stuffed is it?
Try telling the Northwhich Victoria fans that due to small attendances they are being sold and are moving to Lancashire and will be called Wythenshawe Victoria instead, league status and attendances should not matter.
But sureley it is better than the club just folding mod-season and going out of existence.
I'm with DA9. If the Club did not have the fanbase to continue operating in the Premier League, surely selling all their valuable players, cashing in on their other Premiership assets, cutting staff, etc is a better move. It will lead to relegation, perhaps several times over, but surely this would have been the preference of the 3k hardcore following. Even with just a few thousand fans, I struggle to see how a Premier League club could have gone out of business. Surely any Administrators would have to have been pretty shit for this to have happened...
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]Wimbledon pulled a home attendance of 3,000 in the PREMIERSHIP, more than haf of which were Everton supporters. This isn't having a season, like we did last year, where they finished bottom and were doomed from the autumn onwards. Oh no, this was a season in which they finished in a comfortable mid-table position. So my question is, if Wimbledon fans didn't give enough of a shit about their club to show up and watch them winning in the Premiership, finishing above the likes of Everton and one spot below little old Chelsea, then why should I alter my behaviour because they lost their club as a direct result of their own lack of support for it?
Attendances should not matter, Wimbledon have always had a small hard core fan base, the rest were just hangers on, so it's OK to tell the 3000 loyal fans to get stuffed is it?
Try telling the Northwhich Victoria fans that due to small attendances they are being sold and are moving to Lancashire and will be called Wythenshawe Victoria instead, league status and attendances should not matter.
But sureley it is better than the club just folding mod-season and going out of existence.
But it's not the same club is it, different name, different community to draw its support from, no history, new ground.
Maybe Wimbledon would have been relegated a few divisions (just look at us) but they would have rebuilt and come back again, even with their hard core support.
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]Wimbledon pulled a home attendance of 3,000 in the PREMIERSHIP, more than haf of which were Everton supporters. This isn't having a season, like we did last year, where they finished bottom and were doomed from the autumn onwards. Oh no, this was a season in which they finished in a comfortable mid-table position. So my question is, if Wimbledon fans didn't give enough of a shit about their club to show up and watch them winning in the Premiership, finishing above the likes of Everton and one spot below little old Chelsea, then why should I alter my behaviour because they lost their club as a direct result of their own lack of support for it?
Wow, I didn't realise that.
Are you sure this was before the move to MK was proposed/finalised? And before AFC Wimbledon was established?
Oh yeah, long, long before. The move came from attendances like that. This was a 1993 (about 7 years before they lost their club). They finished a couple of points and two places below Arsenal. Poor fans.
[cite]Posted By: DA9[/cite]
Attendances should not matter, Wimbledon have always had a small hard core fan base, the rest were just hangers on, so it's OK to tell the 3000 loyal fans to get stuffed is it?
Try telling the Northwhich Victoria fans that due to small attendances they are being sold and are moving to Lancashire and will be called Wythenshawe Victoria instead, league status and attendances should not matter.
It's a fair point, but they do matter to running a business. I'd have a lot more sympathy for loyal Northwich fans because they've never been midtable in the richest league in the world, so it's a bit of a different story.
If you're running a restaurant in the West End and you have 4 people come in every night who really love the place, but no other customers, do you keep running it at a massive loss for their sake, or do you think about opening it up elsewhere where you might get appreciated?
Thinking about what you said, I've got every sympathy with the 1000 Wimbledon fans that showed up that night (more folk travelled from Liverpool than SW19) and who lost their club. It's the other 60 odd thousand who celebrated after they won the cub and the several thousand that go to AFC and whine endlessly about "losing their team". They're not the first people in life to realise that they've lost something that they love, by neglecting it, but it's their fault it happened. If the handful of real fans want somebody to blame then it's not the Norwiegen owners (who cut ticket prices right back, ran family promotions etc), big business or the lad with the dodgy hair at MK - it's their own kind who couldn't be bothered. Unfortunately whenever you hear Wimbledon fans whining, the majority of them fell into that couldn't be arsed group.
Sorry Dons, you had a succesful Premiership team. I'd crawl over glass for that but you couldn't bother your arse to get a bus to the ground and pay £15 for a ticket (at the gate) and cheer them on, so you don't have one anymore. That's a shame, but they shouldn't expect me to cry over their spilt milk.
[cite]Posted By: Si[/cite]
I struggle to see how a Premier League club could have gone out of business. Surely any Administrators would have to have been pretty shit for this to have happened...
The thing is mate, what do you think Administrators do? They get the best financial package available for a struggling business to allow it to meet it's creditors. If they'd gone into the hands of the admins they would have moved for sure. What are they going to do - keep them playing in front of one man and his dog or accept a bid from somebody who can attract a decent support? IMO an Administrator who allowed them to continue where they were would have been pretty shit.
I'm getting out of this thread now, it's eating my day :0)
[cite]Posted By: DA9[/cite]
Attendances should not matter, Wimbledon have always had a small hard core fan base, the rest were just hangers on, so it's OK to tell the 3000 loyal fans to get stuffed is it?
Try telling the Northwhich Victoria fans that due to small attendances they are being sold and are moving to Lancashire and will be called Wythenshawe Victoria instead, league status and attendances should not matter.
It's a fair point, but they do matter to running a business. I'd have a lot more sympathy for loyal Northwich fans because they've never been midtable in the richest league in the world, so it's a bit of a different story.
If you're running a restaurant in the West End and you have 4 people come in every night who really love the place, but no other customers, do you keep running it at a massive loss for their sake, or do you think about opening it up elsewhere where you might get appreciated?
But you dont have an emotional and life long commitment to a restaurant or any other "business".
Sorry, but I believe some people have very short memories, if this club sinks even further and our crowds dwindle, would you accept us moving to Basingstoke and being called the Berkshire Valiants?
How any Charlton fan, who was around during our spells at Selhurst & Upton Park, could ever defend Franchise FC and slate Wimbledon FC fans is beyond me, and always will be.
I don't defend the upper echelons of MK and the decision makers who made it what it is but I don't have anything against the fans who now support them - especially the kids.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]I don't defend the upper echelons of MK and the decision makers who made it what it is but I don't have anything against the fans who now support them - especially the kids.
No problem with them either, just how a club with a rich history was destroyed overnight for profit.
Mclovin i really dunno where you get such shit from i really dont.
OK one game they had 3,000 and their av that season was low (approx 8,400). This then rose to average of 18,235 1998/99 season.
So i think these THOUSANDS of fans who lost their club due to people like Hamman and the Norweigans selling them down the river had every right to complain about losing their club.
The reason that so many people celebrated Wimbledon winning the cup was because Wimbledon were a very big community club, they ran soccer schools and other community events throughout Wandsworth, Merton, and Sutton to name just a few boroughs.
Carl, I'd not doubt your figures, but they're still pretty poor. Much worse than any premiership club before, or since. They're also padded to a great extent, because it was a place that a lot of away fans could easily get a ticket to: your London Man U plastics and such. But, you're right, a lot of people lost a club that they did support and that's a horrible situation, which you'd hope wouldn't happen to any fan. Not sure what the answer is: there wasn't enough of them to make it viable anymore (we're lucky that we've maintained great crowds as we've slipped down the leagues) and more of them would have walked as they slipped down the leagues. What else could they do?
Don't understand your point about the community stuff. If they had such a succesful community scheme a few more of them should have put a bit of coin into the club instead of just popping up to cheer when they win something or whine when it all goes wrong.
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]Carl, I'd not doubt your figures, but they're still pretty poor. Much worse than any premiership club before, or since. They're also padded to a great extent, because it was a place that a lot of away fans could easily get a ticket to: your London Man U plastics and such. But, you're right, a lot of people lost a club that they did support and that's a horrible situation, which you'd hope wouldn't happen to any fan. Not sure what the answer is: there wasn't enough of them to make it viable anymore (we're lucky that we've maintained great crowds as we've slipped down the leagues) and more of them would have walked as they slipped down the leagues. What else could they do?
Don't understand your point about the community stuff. If they had such a succesful community scheme a few more of them should have put a bit of coin into the club instead of just popping up to cheer when they win something or whine when it all goes wrong.
I accept your points McLovin, and about the Administrators. I understand their job and the role they fulfil. Although they do not do so with carte blanche to make any financial decision whatsoever, otherwise in many cases they would simply close the football side of the clubs down, and sell the land and stadium instead for housing developments. They don't because they still have to operate within the demands of the business model, and the values of that business.
In any case, and to make my point more bluntly, I don't believe that they were in a position where it was relocate or go out of business. They were not even in Administration! Their owners simply relocated for financial gain, and considering the nature of the business that they invested in (and knew they were investing in), this was and is completely unacceptable. Shame on them and everyone who allowed it to happen.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]I don't defend the upper echelons of MK and the decision makers who made it what it is but I don't have anything against the fans who now support them - especially the kids.
I have something against the fans - especially the kids! Their support has shown that franchising can work here.
Comments
Wimbledon fans tried to get the club back to Merton but were told by both Sam Hamman and Charles Koppell that Merton as a borough blocked every attempt to move back to the borough, this was later proved by the council not to be the case.
Several fan protests and events were set up to publicise the issue at Wimbledon and the potential move to MK.
The fans did everything in their power to stop this, so don’t talk bollocks about them not trying and not caring about their club
This statement holds the most truth who cares who we are playing so long as its Charlton im watching i dont care. Also the loose thing a bit down but realistic i like that.
Wow, I didn't realise that.
Are you sure this was before the move to MK was proposed/finalised? And before AFC Wimbledon was established?
Attendances should not matter, Wimbledon have always had a small hard core fan base, the rest were just hangers on, so it's OK to tell the 3000 loyal fans to get stuffed is it?
Try telling the Northwhich Victoria fans that due to small attendances they are being sold and are moving to Lancashire and will be called Wythenshawe Victoria instead, league status and attendances should not matter.
No mate, but I will have one tomorrow if you have any?????
:-)
I'm with DA9. If the Club did not have the fanbase to continue operating in the Premier League, surely selling all their valuable players, cashing in on their other Premiership assets, cutting staff, etc is a better move. It will lead to relegation, perhaps several times over, but surely this would have been the preference of the 3k hardcore following. Even with just a few thousand fans, I struggle to see how a Premier League club could have gone out of business. Surely any Administrators would have to have been pretty shit for this to have happened...
But it's not the same club is it, different name, different community to draw its support from, no history, new ground.
Maybe Wimbledon would have been relegated a few divisions (just look at us) but they would have rebuilt and come back again, even with their hard core support.
Oh yeah, long, long before. The move came from attendances like that. This was a 1993 (about 7 years before they lost their club). They finished a couple of points and two places below Arsenal. Poor fans.
If you're running a restaurant in the West End and you have 4 people come in every night who really love the place, but no other customers, do you keep running it at a massive loss for their sake, or do you think about opening it up elsewhere where you might get appreciated?
Thinking about what you said, I've got every sympathy with the 1000 Wimbledon fans that showed up that night (more folk travelled from Liverpool than SW19) and who lost their club. It's the other 60 odd thousand who celebrated after they won the cub and the several thousand that go to AFC and whine endlessly about "losing their team". They're not the first people in life to realise that they've lost something that they love, by neglecting it, but it's their fault it happened. If the handful of real fans want somebody to blame then it's not the Norwiegen owners (who cut ticket prices right back, ran family promotions etc), big business or the lad with the dodgy hair at MK - it's their own kind who couldn't be bothered. Unfortunately whenever you hear Wimbledon fans whining, the majority of them fell into that couldn't be arsed group.
Sorry Dons, you had a succesful Premiership team. I'd crawl over glass for that but you couldn't bother your arse to get a bus to the ground and pay £15 for a ticket (at the gate) and cheer them on, so you don't have one anymore. That's a shame, but they shouldn't expect me to cry over their spilt milk.
I'm getting out of this thread now, it's eating my day :0)
But you dont have an emotional and life long commitment to a restaurant or any other "business".
Sorry, but I believe some people have very short memories, if this club sinks even further and our crowds dwindle, would you accept us moving to Basingstoke and being called the Berkshire Valiants?
How any Charlton fan, who was around during our spells at Selhurst & Upton Park, could ever defend Franchise FC and slate Wimbledon FC fans is beyond me, and always will be.
No problem with them either, just how a club with a rich history was destroyed overnight for profit.
OK one game they had 3,000 and their av that season was low (approx 8,400). This then rose to average of 18,235 1998/99 season.
So i think these THOUSANDS of fans who lost their club due to people like Hamman and the Norweigans selling them down the river had every right to complain about losing their club.
The reason that so many people celebrated Wimbledon winning the cup was because Wimbledon were a very big community club, they ran soccer schools and other community events throughout Wandsworth, Merton, and Sutton to name just a few boroughs.
Don't understand your point about the community stuff. If they had such a succesful community scheme a few more of them should have put a bit of coin into the club instead of just popping up to cheer when they win something or whine when it all goes wrong.
I accept your points McLovin, and about the Administrators. I understand their job and the role they fulfil. Although they do not do so with carte blanche to make any financial decision whatsoever, otherwise in many cases they would simply close the football side of the clubs down, and sell the land and stadium instead for housing developments. They don't because they still have to operate within the demands of the business model, and the values of that business.
In any case, and to make my point more bluntly, I don't believe that they were in a position where it was relocate or go out of business. They were not even in Administration! Their owners simply relocated for financial gain, and considering the nature of the business that they invested in (and knew they were investing in), this was and is completely unacceptable. Shame on them and everyone who allowed it to happen.