at times pete would like a manager just to have the balls to see it aint working early doors and change it and not think just because of the start we have had that he can't change it.
[cite]Posted By: Red_Pete[/cite]
Good old Charlton! Not many teams have "supporters" who will call the manager who has overseen one defeat in the last 18 league games a moron. FFS. We are so very lucky.
Same manager who got us relegated to this league and oversaw the worst run of results in the clubs history. I'd say calling him a moron was being polite.
[cite]Posted By: Red_Pete[/cite]
Good old Charlton! Not many teams have "supporters" who will call the manager who has overseen one defeat in the last 18 league games a moron. FFS. We are so very lucky.
Same manager who got us relegated to this league and oversaw the worst run of results in the clubs history. I'd say calling him a moron was being polite.
Same manager who inherited an already doomed team and could not turn around results although he improved performances.
wasnt there today n was listening, was saying to my mate that he cudnt hit a barn door! but im sure it is a confidence thing and no point shipping out(not that anyones suggesting), because he will only start scoring for whoever like everyone does. why can we not get a decent goalscorer!!!!
[cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite]cant see what mcleod has done to justify his place.
Think Parky has wanted to set a precedent that only players who show the right attitude and desire in training will get their chance in the first team which by all accounts Izzy has done, although he may be lucky to still be at the club at all. I think that's a fair enough policy by Parky and I like the fact he's not picking on reputation but on merit.
However, I'm afraid I don't rate Mcleod one bit - he has an air of Lisbie in the Premiershuip about him - difficult for defenders, gets lots of chances but fluffs them when it really counts. We don't really know what Dicko has done to upset Parky, but he's out of the picture, although I think he's clearly a better player than Mcleod. To be fair though, with him out of the picture Mcleod's been the only obvious option with Tuna so young and McKenzie injured. I expect to see more and more of McKenzie as he gets fitter.
In Izzy's defence, he does have two goals to his name from limited appearances, unfortunatley one was an open goal and the other was a massive deflection after he actually shot straight at the defender rather than the goal! I do think he has a certain a nuisance value that might help make space for others but if we're looking to him to be a super sub that wins us tight games, I think we're going to be dissappointed.
Parky gave a massive clue this week when he said that he wanted to get rid of all the players with egos.
Sometimes you do need egos though because they bring something different to the table especially on the pitch and it is a Managers job to channel those in the right way. Mr Capello doesn't seem to struggle doing so as evidenced by the fact that not one of our so called superstars opted to miss what was a meaningless Qualifier. Something that they most certainly would have tried to do under the likes of McClaren.
Parky doesn't want difference but he needs to learn that it is difference that wins matches and not same. The very "same" that any future opposition scout worth his salt would work out in a nano second.
Sorry to say this but how Dickson can constantly be overlooked when his scoring record in this league is better than most. He may have attitude problems but surely this is a man management issue and surely any personal issues can be put aside as long as he is doing the business on the pitch. Not sure if from what i have seen, Dickson would have missed those chances that fell for McLeod. Izale may work hard and have done well in training but his finishing is abysmal, you only have to watch him in the warm up and against the likes of Barnet to see this. Can see why he scored so many in League 2 as he must have had 5 chances a game. McLeod may be a better all round player but we need a striker to score some goals especially against the likes of Oldham who did practically come and park the bus infront of the goal (a fat bus judging by Gregan).
Oh yeah and the ego thing may be true (you only have to read Randolphs piece in the programme to see the character Dickson is) but we would be very foolish to sell a 20-25 goal a season striker cause of ego
Nice to see that after the inital knee-jerk reactions and name calling, there are a few more considered views on this thread now - not that I would agree with them all, of course. For the record, I said;
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]Early start in the slagging off stakes for you chaps today. Bet you just couldn't wait to get home and switch your computers on.
[cite]Posted By: WestStandCookie[/cite]
How can you back McLeod after today?
Tell me, where I am "backing" anyone?
[cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite]
Bet you couldnt wait to get home and defend him
Tell me, where am I defending him?
[cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite]
why is he in your opinion better than the other 3?
Tell me, where have I said he is better than the other 3?
[cite]Posted By: buckshee[/cite]yeah , how dare anyone have an opinion on here eh , disgraceful
Evidently you are allowed to express yours but I am not allowed to express mine. Strange set of values there.
Anyone else not able to read, or understand what they read without putting their own slant on it???
Oh yeah and the ego thing may be true (you only have to read Randolphs piece in the programme to see the character Dickson is) but we would be very foolish to sell a 20-25 goal a season striker cause of ego
We don't have a 20-25 goal a season striker. If you're saying Dickson is that striker then I'm afraid your dreaming.
We saw the best and worst of Izzy today.
With him on the pitch things really started to happen; but he blew his chances to be a hero.
Shame really because that last 20 minutes with Izzy, McKenzie, Waggy and Youga running at their defence was full of promise and excitement.
Can't understand this clamour for Dickson.
Nothing to do with his ego; he's just blinkered and not a team player.
Fine if you want to build everything around him; but I'll wager he's no 20 goals a season man.
I liked McKenzie's cameo - he tried to get things going with Izzy and kept encouraging him.
[cite]Posted By: Six-a-bag-of-nuts[/cite]We saw the best and worst of Izzy today.
With him on the pitch things really started to happen; but he blew his chances to be a hero.
Without any form of dramatisation, i thought those two lines summed it up perfectly.
I have been saying it ever since pre-season..........our strikers are just not good enough.
To get out of this (and any) division you need 2 decent strikers who will get you 40 goals between them(Hunt & mendonca)........don't even think the 5 we had in our 18 man squad today would get that between them.
saying that, I do think we looked better once Mcleod and Mackenzie were partnered together, but that may be because we were playing 4-4-2........thought Shelvey was poor again today and was no gal threat.
McLeod changed the game when he came on and it went to 4-4-2 when partnered with McKenzie. His pace caused Oldham problems. He does get in behind the defence and get in those scoring chances but he lacks composure and seems to panic. We haven't got a pacey striker like him who get in behind the defence. I think his time will come where he can prove that he can score at this level and in a 4-4-2 if given the chance to start I think he can take it. I was frustrated as anyone that he missed those chances but at least he actually got into those spaces. Burton didn't have a good game. The chance reminded me of when Luke Varney fluffed the chance against Burnley. Then I knew that we weren't going to score.
It's difficult to be critical of Mcleod as he opened the game up today with his pace and running but he seems to reguarly scuff his shots which is a bit worrying considering he's a striker.
[cite]Posted By: Six-a-bag-of-nuts[/cite]We saw the best and worst of Izzy today.
With him on the pitch things really started to happen; but he blew his chances to be a hero.
Shame really because that last 20 minutes with Izzy, McKenzie, Waggy and Youga running at their defence was full of promise and excitement.
Can't understand this clamour for Dickson.
Nothing to do with his ego; he's just blinkered and not a team player.
Fine if you want to build everything around him; but I'll wager he's no 20 goals a season man.
I liked McKenzie's cameo - he tried to get things going with Izzy and kept encouraging him.
Good to see some sense when it comes to Dickson. Yes he's clearly more composed and confident than McLeod, yes he can score in a team built around him in this league, but he wouldn't definitely do it for us.
Interesting how last season so many only wanted players with the right attitudes, but now because McLeod misses a few chances (no, I don't rate him either), Dickson is suddenly the answer and it wouldn't matter what sort of attitude he had.
Curbs built his teams through having players with good attitudes. In the end, Dickson wants to start every game, we aren't guaranteeing any player that.
I doubt Parky thinks McLeod is the answer, but he's trying to get the best out of him, make do with what we have. Tuna's not ready, McKenzie isn't fit, Fleetwood and Dickson want to start every game, in our situation there aren't many options. At least in McLeod we have a player that helps the team create chances, even if he rarely scores. Of course we all think Dickson or even Fleetwood might have scored some of those chances, but Dickson never wanted to be that sub.
Not surprised to once again see the sights aimed at McLeod; brilliant that today's unsatisfying performance can all be laid at the feet of the player who, by all accounts, injected life into the team.
This makes me even more of a fan of McLeod -- whatever shots he takes from supporters, he has more testicular fortitude than most. As correctly noted, he has accepted the sub role and has also accepted the role of goat/donkey when things don't go swimmingly after introduction late in matches. His margin for error is effectively nil and yet he's accepted responsibility and is doing his best (which, perhaps, may not be enough).
So he missed two sitters... get over it. No one else is coming through the clubhouse door that is going to be the player that some are clamoring for.
[quote][cite]Posted By: bexleyboy[/cite]I take it the people who are coming out with this crap tonight was not at the game on Tuesday..Tuna is not good enough he was hopeless on Tuesday, McLeod was excellent on Tuesday scored one and made one and today he changed the game when he come on because he caused the defence all sorts of problems which the lazy git Burton failed to do all afternoon...
Yes he missed ONE chance, one he made himself and was unlucky that is not a miss....for 65 mins we failed to make one chance that is where the problem was today 2 effots none on target in the first 65 mins ...that is why we failed to win today...
Burton and Shelvey should be getting the flak not the strikers who come on at least they gave us hope for the last 20 mins, the other two done nothing for 65 mins and created nothing..[/quote]
If you was at the game today you would have seen shelvey is not playing as a striker, and can you tell me what mcleod did that was so fantastic??? Having said that do all you's really think dickson is a 25 goal a season man cos i dont. Do you not think that the reason he aint playing is because his ego is bigger than the club and that can upset a dressing room. So you would rather have dickson up front with no one wanting to pass to him and split the dressing room so we can go back to the same as last year. As for calling the manager a moron, i'd like to go to the threads when we had won six in a row to see if the same people were calling him a moron
[cite]Posted By: bexleyboy[/cite]I take it the people who are coming out with this crap tonight was not at the game on Tuesday..Tuna is not good enough he was hopeless on Tuesday, McLeod was excellent on Tuesday scored one and made one and today he changed the game when he come on because he caused the defence all sorts of problems which the lazy git Burton failed to do all afternoon...
the goal was massively deflected and anyone thinking Tuna was hopeless against Barnet needs to have a word with himself!
Mcleod should have scored at least once today but realistically could have had a hat trick. It's not the first time he's mis kicked the ball - his technique is shocking! He genuinely has toblerone feet
[cite]Posted By: golfaddick[/cite]To get out of this (and any) division you need 2 decent strikers who will get you 40 goals between them(Hunt & mendonca).
You're rewriting history. if you remember it was Mendonca in 1998, but Hunt in 2000,banging in the goals. Mendonca was injured when Hunt really started banging them in. And in Andy Hunt's 1999 season no-one thought he would come good as he did.In 2000 the bloke who played the Mcleod role (including taking the flak) was often Martin Pringle
I think that if he stays fit Burton will be good for 20, but perhaps not if we play 4-5-1. But there are loads of goals to come from our midfield.
Parky has to work with what he's got, and decent strikers cost money.
I wasnt there yesterday but I was howling at the radio along with everyone at the Valley. From what I have seen of Dickson though, there are a lot of deluded people here. Perhaps you can remind me which games in a Charlton shirt he played where he put in a shift like e.g Burton against Brentford?
[cite]Posted By: golfaddick[/cite]To get out of this (and any) division you need 2 decent strikers who will get you 40 goals between them(Hunt & mendonca).
I wasnt there yesterday but I was howling at the radio along with everyone at the Valley. From what I have seen of Dickson though, there are a lot of deluded people here. Perhaps you can remind me which games in a Charlton shirt he played where he put in a shift like e.g Burton against Brentford?
Killer rarely used to "put a shift in". Arthur and Flash used to do the donkey work a la Burton. He scored goals and it is goals that actually win matches which is why we haven't won any of our last three games and why the rest of the field (including Bristol Rovers) have closed the gap on us.
Dickson has scored 10 in 13 starts at this level and on that basis alone he is more than a 20-25 goals a season player. All the time people question his attitude (which Stimpson at Gillingham and Lennie at Bristol Rovers clearly have no problem with) Parky will continue to play football by numbers. And more and more teams will contunue to shut us out.
Steve Coppell could handle Ian Wright and got the best out of him as a result. Perhaps Parky should have a word with him.
[cite]Posted By: Six-a-bag-of-nuts[/cite]We saw the best and worst of Izzy today.
With him on the pitch things really started to happen; but he blew his chances to be a hero.
Shame really because that last 20 minutes with Izzy, McKenzie, Waggy and Youga running at their defence was full of promise and excitement.
Can't understand this clamour for Dickson.
Nothing to do with his ego; he's just blinkered and not a team player.
Fine if you want to build everything around him; but I'll wager he's no 20 goals a season man.
I liked McKenzie's cameo - he tried to get things going with Izzy and kept encouraging him.
i think all this focus on mcleod is misplaced. parky has attempted to change things because over ecent weeks chalrton have been found out . isnt it one win in 6 now in the league. for all the early season promise its suddenly going a bit flat. one defeat all season may look impressive but its strings of wins that get promotion. ive only seen the leeds game this season and although it wasnt predicted that we would get a result there, my overall view was that with decent strikers we would have won there. this league has too many teams that are pretty average, that can match us on the day. what is needed as already said is good strikers in form. at present we dont have any and this isnt really mcleod's fault. maybe if he'd played every game he'd have played into form butthe pressure on him is too great due to his strike partners also not pulling their weight. he may not be all that good but neither is anybody else at present. i thunk its unfair and unreasonable to start having a go at parky as he has steadied the ship now. but i fear the weight of early season expectation is now paying a price and we expect to beat alcomers which we now realise is not going to happen. its a long seasona and the end of season form is as important as the beginning. incidentally its oldham away last game of the season. im planning to go and hope its a cellebration there. lets not knock players that want to play for the club. come on all you reds!
I actually don't think one win in the league in the last six is steadying the ship. What has happened is that sides have watched us enough now and know how to nullify our threats - get two players on Burton - one to mark and one to pick up the knock downs and touches, stop Shelvey having space in the final third, prevent the ball from Llera out to Sam and close him down early, ensure you track Bailey with late runs into the box - and guess what, we don't really appear to have a Plan B.
As Plan B is bringing on McLeod to make 4-4-2. Yes he makes space, yes, he gets chances, but he's not a very good striker and so Plan B isn't really very effective!
Time for Parky to now show he's more than just a manager who can get the BEST team in the division out on the park and let them win games on their own....
[quote][cite]Posted By: bexleyboy[/cite]I take it the people who are coming out with this crap tonight was not at the game on Tuesday..Tuna is not good enough he was hopeless on Tuesday, McLeod was excellent on Tuesday scored one and made one and today he changed the game when he come on because he caused the defence all sorts of problems which the lazy git Burton failed to do all afternoon...
I'm sorry but I think your judgement is so far off-beam it's laughable. Tuna was terrific on Tuesday. McLeod was average and made to look better by all the work Tuna was doing, and his goal was a lucky deflection off the defender's arse. The one thing you cannot say of Burton is that he is lazy.
[cite]Posted By: bexleyboy[/cite]I take it the people who are coming out with this crap tonight was not at the game on Tuesday..Tuna is not good enough he was hopeless on Tuesday, McLeod was excellent on Tuesday scored one and made one and today he changed the game when he come on because he caused the defence all sorts of problems which the lazy git Burton failed to do all afternoon...
It's all about opinions isn't it.
I thought Tuna looked a class act on Tuesday night and McLoed was a waste of space. The kid gave 110% and McLoed looked like he couldn't be bothered. Tuna's goal was an excellent move and a class finish, Mcloeds was yet another shot of his that was missing the target and got a lucky deflection.
For me Tuna showed at times he's got a decent footballing brain like Parky has talked about, but other times his touch was poor or he made a mistake. Wouldn't say he was class but he shouldn't written off as never going to be good enough either.
McLeod still never convinces me, even when he has a decent game. Always looks to be pretty much all pace, bit of decent movement but lacking in every other area.
Comments
Same manager who got us relegated to this league and oversaw the worst run of results in the clubs history. I'd say calling him a moron was being polite.
Same manager who inherited an already doomed team and could not turn around results although he improved performances.
Not quite the same thing...
Think Parky has wanted to set a precedent that only players who show the right attitude and desire in training will get their chance in the first team which by all accounts Izzy has done, although he may be lucky to still be at the club at all. I think that's a fair enough policy by Parky and I like the fact he's not picking on reputation but on merit.
However, I'm afraid I don't rate Mcleod one bit - he has an air of Lisbie in the Premiershuip about him - difficult for defenders, gets lots of chances but fluffs them when it really counts. We don't really know what Dicko has done to upset Parky, but he's out of the picture, although I think he's clearly a better player than Mcleod. To be fair though, with him out of the picture Mcleod's been the only obvious option with Tuna so young and McKenzie injured. I expect to see more and more of McKenzie as he gets fitter.
In Izzy's defence, he does have two goals to his name from limited appearances, unfortunatley one was an open goal and the other was a massive deflection after he actually shot straight at the defender rather than the goal! I do think he has a certain a nuisance value that might help make space for others but if we're looking to him to be a super sub that wins us tight games, I think we're going to be dissappointed.
Sometimes you do need egos though because they bring something different to the table especially on the pitch and it is a Managers job to channel those in the right way. Mr Capello doesn't seem to struggle doing so as evidenced by the fact that not one of our so called superstars opted to miss what was a meaningless Qualifier. Something that they most certainly would have tried to do under the likes of McClaren.
Parky doesn't want difference but he needs to learn that it is difference that wins matches and not same. The very "same" that any future opposition scout worth his salt would work out in a nano second.
Tell me, where I am "backing" anyone?
Tell me, where am I defending him?
Tell me, where have I said he is better than the other 3?
Evidently you are allowed to express yours but I am not allowed to express mine. Strange set of values there.
Anyone else not able to read, or understand what they read without putting their own slant on it???
We don't have a 20-25 goal a season striker. If you're saying Dickson is that striker then I'm afraid your dreaming.
With him on the pitch things really started to happen; but he blew his chances to be a hero.
Shame really because that last 20 minutes with Izzy, McKenzie, Waggy and Youga running at their defence was full of promise and excitement.
Can't understand this clamour for Dickson.
Nothing to do with his ego; he's just blinkered and not a team player.
Fine if you want to build everything around him; but I'll wager he's no 20 goals a season man.
I liked McKenzie's cameo - he tried to get things going with Izzy and kept encouraging him.
Without any form of dramatisation, i thought those two lines summed it up perfectly.
To get out of this (and any) division you need 2 decent strikers who will get you 40 goals between them(Hunt & mendonca)........don't even think the 5 we had in our 18 man squad today would get that between them.
saying that, I do think we looked better once Mcleod and Mackenzie were partnered together, but that may be because we were playing 4-4-2........thought Shelvey was poor again today and was no gal threat.
Good to see some sense when it comes to Dickson. Yes he's clearly more composed and confident than McLeod, yes he can score in a team built around him in this league, but he wouldn't definitely do it for us.
Interesting how last season so many only wanted players with the right attitudes, but now because McLeod misses a few chances (no, I don't rate him either), Dickson is suddenly the answer and it wouldn't matter what sort of attitude he had.
Curbs built his teams through having players with good attitudes. In the end, Dickson wants to start every game, we aren't guaranteeing any player that.
I doubt Parky thinks McLeod is the answer, but he's trying to get the best out of him, make do with what we have. Tuna's not ready, McKenzie isn't fit, Fleetwood and Dickson want to start every game, in our situation there aren't many options. At least in McLeod we have a player that helps the team create chances, even if he rarely scores. Of course we all think Dickson or even Fleetwood might have scored some of those chances, but Dickson never wanted to be that sub.
This makes me even more of a fan of McLeod -- whatever shots he takes from supporters, he has more testicular fortitude than most. As correctly noted, he has accepted the sub role and has also accepted the role of goat/donkey when things don't go swimmingly after introduction late in matches. His margin for error is effectively nil and yet he's accepted responsibility and is doing his best (which, perhaps, may not be enough).
So he missed two sitters... get over it. No one else is coming through the clubhouse door that is going to be the player that some are clamoring for.
Yes he missed ONE chance, one he made himself and was unlucky that is not a miss....for 65 mins we failed to make one chance that is where the problem was today 2 effots none on target in the first 65 mins ...that is why we failed to win today...
Burton and Shelvey should be getting the flak not the strikers who come on at least they gave us hope for the last 20 mins, the other two done nothing for 65 mins and created nothing..[/quote]
If you was at the game today you would have seen shelvey is not playing as a striker, and can you tell me what mcleod did that was so fantastic??? Having said that do all you's really think dickson is a 25 goal a season man cos i dont. Do you not think that the reason he aint playing is because his ego is bigger than the club and that can upset a dressing room. So you would rather have dickson up front with no one wanting to pass to him and split the dressing room so we can go back to the same as last year. As for calling the manager a moron, i'd like to go to the threads when we had won six in a row to see if the same people were calling him a moron
the goal was massively deflected and anyone thinking Tuna was hopeless against Barnet needs to have a word with himself!
Mcleod should have scored at least once today but realistically could have had a hat trick. It's not the first time he's mis kicked the ball - his technique is shocking! He genuinely has toblerone feet
You're rewriting history. if you remember it was Mendonca in 1998, but Hunt in 2000,banging in the goals. Mendonca was injured when Hunt really started banging them in. And in Andy Hunt's 1999 season no-one thought he would come good as he did.In 2000 the bloke who played the Mcleod role (including taking the flak) was often Martin Pringle
I think that if he stays fit Burton will be good for 20, but perhaps not if we play 4-5-1. But there are loads of goals to come from our midfield.
Parky has to work with what he's got, and decent strikers cost money.
I wasnt there yesterday but I was howling at the radio along with everyone at the Valley. From what I have seen of Dickson though, there are a lot of deluded people here. Perhaps you can remind me which games in a Charlton shirt he played where he put in a shift like e.g Burton against Brentford?
Killer rarely used to "put a shift in". Arthur and Flash used to do the donkey work a la Burton. He scored goals and it is goals that actually win matches which is why we haven't won any of our last three games and why the rest of the field (including Bristol Rovers) have closed the gap on us.
Dickson has scored 10 in 13 starts at this level and on that basis alone he is more than a 20-25 goals a season player. All the time people question his attitude (which Stimpson at Gillingham and Lennie at Bristol Rovers clearly have no problem with) Parky will continue to play football by numbers. And more and more teams will contunue to shut us out.
Steve Coppell could handle Ian Wright and got the best out of him as a result. Perhaps Parky should have a word with him.
Wish I'd written that. 100% reflects my views.
As Plan B is bringing on McLeod to make 4-4-2. Yes he makes space, yes, he gets chances, but he's not a very good striker and so Plan B isn't really very effective!
Time for Parky to now show he's more than just a manager who can get the BEST team in the division out on the park and let them win games on their own....
I'm sorry but I think your judgement is so far off-beam it's laughable. Tuna was terrific on Tuesday. McLeod was average and made to look better by all the work Tuna was doing, and his goal was a lucky deflection off the defender's arse. The one thing you cannot say of Burton is that he is lazy.
It's all about opinions isn't it.
I thought Tuna looked a class act on Tuesday night and McLoed was a waste of space. The kid gave 110% and McLoed looked like he couldn't be bothered. Tuna's goal was an excellent move and a class finish, Mcloeds was yet another shot of his that was missing the target and got a lucky deflection.
McLeod still never convinces me, even when he has a decent game. Always looks to be pretty much all pace, bit of decent movement but lacking in every other area.