3-5-2 is the only way to do that. Play to our strenghts which is obviously our midfield. I would leave youga out play the same midfield as saturday but have jonjo in a free role in there. I'd play burton up with gray or even Tuna giving jonjo two to pick out instead of one it will make it easier for the midfield to join in the attacks. I really didn't think it was to bad at all, i dont think by any stretch Jonjo had his best game but two assists aint bad. I've read the comments and agree with most but to be fair he didn't do much wrong he just didn't set the world alight. We have all come to expect so much more , and rightly so because he can produce so much more. As for him keep coming to deep to get the ball ... Thats cos he wasn't getting it where he was , he wants to be on the ball and there's nothing wrong with that he just needs to learn not to get frustrated when people dont see where he wants the ball all the time. Having said that there was a point in the first half when Llera went off and Jonnjo was out on the left. He was out there for ove 5 mins screeming for the ball with no marker near him and not once was we able to get ball out there. Anyone thats played football will know how frustrating that is. All in all i think Saturday was a great day and am looking forward to many more like that
The goals were good, the first two were good, again exploiting vert 3rd division defending and the overlap from Richardson? was excellent and give Sam more options than just head down and run...
The defending for the third was atrocious... If one of our boys had done that we would all be on his back in seconds!!
The good news is the crowd were fantastic...
It sounded very loud on the commentary .... and it seems weve got a good bunch... and good 16 supporters...
Overall very pleased...
If we can start games that pumped , that alive to mistakes, becasue there will be LOADS to take advantage of in this league... then we could have something...
lets see how we do next week, the cup game isnt that importnat... if we can shove those that didnt play in and see how they go then good....
Who needs forwards when you got goalscoring defenders, Dailly and Llera on the scoresheet and Richardson with a assist.
I think our defense enjoying attacking too much which wore them down a fair bit and when we switched to 4-4-2 and to be honest Gray and Mcleod did little on keeping the ball up field made it very hard on Racon and Semedo who worked all game and the defence more of a tactical backfire imo should of added some fresh legs in Midfield keep make sure the battle there was won then push on Spring whould be ideal.
Burton is the best forward we have physically in terms of stamina and strength and Mentally he wont score many but he is a natural target man and although Gray possibly has better technical ability cant see him doing the job to Burtons standard, if we were to play 2 need a fast striker to play off Burton latch onto his flick ons etc Mcleod or Dickson hoping both up their game to do that.
Christian Dailly was great thoughout he won pretty much every battle in the air his leadership and experience of reading the game showed good positioning looks composed travels with the ball well comfortable with both feet at some point Wycombe got 2 men to close in on Shlevey restrict his movement and angles for passing when shelvey was dropping deeper calling for the pass Dailly looked up noticed that shelvey was isolated and traveled into the space left by the player who had moved across to cover shelvey has that sort of vision and anticipation.
How do we fit in our key players and establised first teamers into a solid formation?
personally i dont like 4-5 -1 and on previous postings i have dug parkinson out but on saturday we actually looked comfortable we played some lovely football 1st half but when we changed it to 4-4-2 we began to wobble why we changed it fck knows .
[cite]Posted By: boogica[/cite]personally i dont like 4-5 -1 and on previous postings i have dug parkinson out but on saturday we actually looked comfortable we played some lovely football 1st half but when we changed it to 4-4-2 we began to wobble why we changed it fck knows .
I think he was just testing his options...
seeing if 442 worked,
seeing if Gray and Mcleod worked,
and he got away with it....
he now knows that we wobble and potentially are AWFUL when closing out a game with 442...
I thought Richardson was poor defensively, allowed a good cross for the 1st and Youga from a standstill had no chance against their man moving in. A lot of pressure in the last 20 came from that side, but possibly because Jonjo was giving little protection. Gray was poor but I thought McLeod showed enough threat that, at home, we should accomodate him in 4-4-2 at the expense of Shelvey, leaving 4-5-1 for away games.
Really enjoyed it saturday, yes there was mistakes but that is the level we are at.
Richardson looked reasonable as did dailey and llera they were all injured but prepared to stay on and fight for the cause which i felt showed throughout the team saturday.
We had 5 goals 3 of which were ours we won i went home happy, i dont think we can ask to much more so early and in that heat. It was to hot to sit let alone run around!!
The learning for me was that we should find a formation that works - and at the moment that is 4-5-1, then simply stick with it if we are on top in the match. Might have been better if Parky had brought McLeod on for Shelvey in the hole, and Gray on for Burton (though I'd have just kept Deon out there). Sam didnl't seem to be tiring anymore than anyone else, and was doing a great job both in attack and defence.
I do have a slight concern that Jonjo is getting a bit big for his Charlton boots - constantly demanding the ball, showing frustration when he doesn't get it, and not wanting to be subbed, No problem with his commitment and enthusiasm, but it's a team game and he needs to demonstrate that he can put the team ahead of his personal interests at times. Delighted he's still here, though!
Thought first half we were a class above them. Passed the ball round really well and they had no chance. Was down to 10 men for about 10 minutes when llera went off and we kept the ball well until we switched off and they scored.
Second half we did well, but the last 15 minutes were panic stations as usual, but we held on. Think our midfield is going to be one if not the best in the league in quality. Semedo won the ball well. Racon/Bailey/Shelvey can dominate game as this level. Defence lacks pace, time will tell if it'll do well. Up front Burton did okay and McLeod nearly scored TWICE.
Lot of positives for the season ahead with room from improvement but I'm quietly confident we might actually be able to do something this year.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]I do have a slight concern that Jonjo is getting a bit big for his Charlton boots - constantly demanding the ball, showing frustration when he doesn't get it, and not wanting to be subbed, No problem with his commitment and enthusiasm, but it's a team game and he needs to demonstrate that he can put the team ahead of his personal interests at times. Delighted he's still here, though!
I would be much more concerned if he wasn't demanding the ball, if he never got frustrated and i'd certainly be concerned if he wanted to be subbed. If you dont want him to do all that surely your taking away the enthusiasm that you said you dont have a problem with
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]I do have a slight concern that Jonjo is getting a bit big for his Charlton boots - constantly demanding the ball, showing frustration when he doesn't get it, and not wanting to be subbed, No problem with his commitment and enthusiasm, but it's a team game and he needs to demonstrate that he can put the team ahead of his personal interests at times. Delighted he's still here, though!
I would be much more concerned if he wasn't demanding the ball, if he never got frustrated and i'd certainly be concerned if he wanted to be subbed. If you dont want him to do all that surely your taking away the enthusiasm that you said you dont have a problem with
Uncle, I find it very hard to be even mildly critical of Jonjo - he is undoubtedly a superb talent, and by all accounts a great lad. However, I always feel uncomfortable when any player anywhere behaves in a way that suggests that he might think he is better than or more important than the rest of the team - I'm not saying Jonjo does that, but there were a few early warning signs there for me on Sat. I just worry a little bit that he is putting himself under so much pressure to do everything and always be in the thick of things. That can sometimes be to the detriment of his own form and the team's.
As a fan watching the game, rather than his relative, do you not think it might have been better to sub him and keep Sam on? In that way the formation could have stayed the same, with McLeod as a direct replacement just behind the striker. Just based on the state of the game on Sat.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]I do have a slight concern that Jonjo is getting a bit big for his Charlton boots - constantly demanding the ball, showing frustration when he doesn't get it, and not wanting to be subbed, No problem with his commitment and enthusiasm, but it's a team game and he needs to demonstrate that he can put the team ahead of his personal interests at times. Delighted he's still here, though!
I would be much more concerned if he wasn't demanding the ball, if he never got frustrated and i'd certainly be concerned if he wanted to be subbed. If you dont want him to do all that surely your taking away the enthusiasm that you said you dont have a problem with
Don't think he's got too big for his boots. Out of the five midfielders I think he was the one who seemed least familiar with his role which is to be expected given his relative level of experience. I think he was wanting to get involved in the things that Racon was doing so well but there was no need so he appeared to be drifting out of the game especially in the second half.
I'd like to have seen him get closer to Burton when we're attacking and his tackling definitely needs improvement. There were a couple of times he was lucky not to get injured because of his tentativeness (if that's a word?). But the lad's class and is learning all the time.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]As a fan watching the game, rather than his relative, do you not think it might have been better to sub him and keep Sam on? In that way the formation could have stayed the same, with McLeod as a direct replacement just behind the striker. Just based on the state of the game on Sat.
I certainly wouldn't have taken Sam off for Jonjo to play on the right. I'm not sure that at that point i would have made a double change. Not sure i would have brought Jonjo off but i would certainly have left sam on and changed just one forward to start with. I think brining the two on together upset the balance of the team to quickly. By the way i do watch the games as a fan and not just a relative and anyone that sits near me will varify this :-)
Thanks, Uncle - think we're in agreement tactically! Hope Jonjo has a fab season - with The Addicks. I commented before the game on Sat that I was so pleased to see him still out there, as I'd been afraid we'd seen the last of him in a Charlton shirt v Norwich.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]Thanks, Uncle - think we're in agreement tactically! Hope Jonjo has a fab season - with The Addicks. I commented before the game on Sat that I was so pleased to see him still out there, as I'd been afraid we'd seen the last of him in a Charlton shirt v Norwich.
Many did but i did try to tell everyone he wasn't going anywhere just yet. I hope so too cos i have a feeling this is gonna be a good year to watch Charlton much better than last year anyway !!!
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]Thanks, Uncle - think we're in agreement tactically! Hope Jonjo has a fab season - with The Addicks. I commented before the game on Sat that I was so pleased to see him still out there, as I'd been afraid we'd seen the last of him in a Charlton shirt v Norwich.
Many did but i did try to tell everyone he wasn't going anywhere just yet. I hope so too cos i have a feeling this is gonna be a good year to watch Charlton much better than last year anyway !!!
And so mnay more thrills and spills than at West Ham!!! ;-)
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]I do have a slight concern that Jonjo is getting a bit big for his Charlton boots - constantly demanding the ball, showing frustration when he doesn't get it, and not wanting to be subbed, No problem with his commitment and enthusiasm, but it's a team game and he needs to demonstrate that he can put the team ahead of his personal interests at times. Delighted he's still here, though!
I would be much more concerned if he wasn't demanding the ball, if he never got frustrated and i'd certainly be concerned if he wanted to be subbed. If you dont want him to do all that surely your taking away the enthusiasm that you said you dont have a problem with
Uncle, I find it very hard to be even mildly critical of Jonjo - he is undoubtedly a superb talent, and by all accounts a great lad. However, I always feel uncomfortable when any player anywhere behaves in a way that suggests that he might think he is better than or more important than the rest of the team - I'm not saying Jonjo does that, but there were a few early warning signs there for me on Sat. I just worry a little bit that he is putting himself under so much pressure to do everything and always be in the thick of things. That can sometimes be to the detriment of his own form and the team's.
As a fan watching the game, rather than his relative, do you not think it might have been better to sub him and keep Sam on? In that way the formation could have stayed the same, with McLeod as a direct replacement just behind the striker. Just based on the state of the game on Sat.
Weegie, I echo your statement fully. We have to remember also how young Jonjo is. I'm sure he wants to play every minute of every game as most youngsters would. Some days, he will be great , others he will not, IMHO, Parky's mistake on Saturday was not actually making the substitutions (at 3-1 up, I felt it was right to give Gray and McLeod a run out), but your right , he should have subbed Jonjo rather than Lloyd Sam. Obviously Parky has great faith in Jonjo and rightly so, but be cautious with him at times.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]Saw a copy of the football section of News of the Screws earlier.
I can't believe that they only gave Burton 5!
I know we are talking a much lower level but I thought Burton was Bartlettlike in the lone striker role on Saturday and I mean that as a compliment.
They weren't watching him properly then. In the end we know and I think Parkinson knows Burton did his job very well. If Sam had set him up when he should have he'd have probably had a goal as well.
[cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]3-5-2 is the only way to do that. Play to our strenghts which is obviously our midfield. I would leave youga out play the same midfield as saturday but have jonjo in a free role in there. I'd play burton up with gray or even Tuna giving jonjo two to pick out instead of one it will make it easier for the midfield to join in the attacks. I really didn't think it was to bad at all, i dont think by any stretch Jonjo had his best game but two assists aint bad. I've read the comments and agree with most but to be fair he didn't do much wrong he just didn't set the world alight. We have all come to expect so much more , and rightly so because he can produce so much more. As for him keep coming to deep to get the ball ... Thats cos he wasn't getting it where he was , he wants to be on the ball and there's nothing wrong with that he just needs to learn not to get frustrated when people dont see where he wants the ball all the time. Having said that there was a point in the first half when Llera went off and Jonnjo was out on the left. He was out there for ove 5 mins screeming for the ball with no marker near him and not once was we able to get ball out there. Anyone thats played football will know how frustrating that is. All in all i think Saturday was a great day and am looking forward to many more like that
I don't think 3-5-2 is playing to our strengths though. It will limit Sam/Richardson in that they'll have to do a lot more running and will need midfielders and strikers running out wide, rather than having someone else already in position to work with.
We don't really have a left wing back - Youga could play there but I think it would be too much for him, left midfield is ok for Bailey but I can't imagine left wing back suiting him.
There are reasons no one really uses 3-5-2 any more. Managers must know how to break it down and there probably aren't enough players around that can play it. You'd think it would be ideal for England with the midfielders we have, and players like Ashley Cole should be ideal as wing backs.
If that was me mentioning him coming deep to get the ball, I really meant he does that because he's not an out and out striker, he's not got real pace like McLeod or Dickson, he doesn't try and push right up. If he can play further up and closer to Burton, it's much closer to 4-4-2 than a flat 4-5-1.
Not sure about playing Tuna yet, from what I've seen Dickson and McLeod are better and they rarely impress me themselves. For me, if we play 2 strikers, it's got to be Burton with McLeod or Dickson. Right mixture of pace and intelligence, and having different types of strikers will help the midfield, especially Jonjo and Sam, when it comes to creating chances.
It was an exciting game which believe it or not are the best type.
In an ideal world we would have won 5-0, but we have limited players not premier league ones playing for us, they are going to make mistakes & we must accept that.
How many other teams have a class equivalent of a Shelvey, Bailey or Racon in their midfield in this league, I'll hazard a guess at not many. Much more to be positive about than be negative in my opinion.
Worryingly, the were an awful lot of parallels against our opening game last season against a newly promoted team. Hopefully that is where the comparisons end, but its a point that is refusing to let me think too much into what i thought was a promosing opener.
On the Shelvey issue, you will remember he didn't have a particularly great game then either, and went on to have a good season.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]Worryingly, the were an awful lot of parallels against our opening game last season against a newly promoted team. Hopefully that is where the comparisons end, but its a point that is refusing to let me think too much into what i thought was a promosing opener.
On the Shelvey issue, you will remember he didn't have a particularly great game then either, and went on to have a good season.
Personally last year was never convinced by our performance. This year, we had a very good first half apart from the goal we conceded (really didn't help with Llera going off) and the minor errors of poor touches or decision making. We've managed to keep our best players, the midfield, and with a bit more confidence and games we might well finish those chances we created. Another day we'd have been 4-0 up. Last year Swansea just couldn't score.
We also know the three new defenders had injury problems, and need time to gel. And of course we'll hopefully bring in a couple of defenders, a winger and striker. Having better options on the bench might have made the difference and we might have gone on to win 4 or 5-1 in the second half. If possible we'll improve on McLeod, we'll have a direct replacement for Sam and Gray will be fitter if he stays.
Agree with Scoham, last year we hardly touched the ball against Swansea but managed to win. In the first half against Wycombe we kept the ball very well, even when Llera went off.
so KY gets the off-day award. Honourable mention for Dailly, but reads like people's player of the match is between Burton and Racon ... probably Racon edges it.
Comments
CAFCTV working a charm... hooray!!
The goals were good, the first two were good, again exploiting vert 3rd division defending and the overlap from Richardson? was excellent and give Sam more options than just head down and run...
The defending for the third was atrocious... If one of our boys had done that we would all be on his back in seconds!!
The good news is the crowd were fantastic...
It sounded very loud on the commentary .... and it seems weve got a good bunch... and good 16 supporters...
Overall very pleased...
If we can start games that pumped , that alive to mistakes, becasue there will be LOADS to take advantage of in this league... then we could have something...
lets see how we do next week, the cup game isnt that importnat... if we can shove those that didnt play in and see how they go then good....
I think our defense enjoying attacking too much which wore them down a fair bit and when we switched to 4-4-2 and to be honest Gray and Mcleod did little on keeping the ball up field made it very hard on Racon and Semedo who worked all game and the defence more of a tactical backfire imo should of added some fresh legs in Midfield keep make sure the battle there was won then push on Spring whould be ideal.
Burton is the best forward we have physically in terms of stamina and strength and Mentally he wont score many but he is a natural target man and although Gray possibly has better technical ability cant see him doing the job to Burtons standard, if we were to play 2 need a fast striker to play off Burton latch onto his flick ons etc Mcleod or Dickson hoping both up their game to do that.
Christian Dailly was great thoughout he won pretty much every battle in the air his leadership and experience of reading the game showed good positioning looks composed travels with the ball well comfortable with both feet at some point Wycombe got 2 men to close in on Shlevey restrict his movement and angles for passing when shelvey was dropping deeper calling for the pass Dailly looked up noticed that shelvey was isolated and traveled into the space left by the player who had moved across to cover shelvey has that sort of vision and anticipation.
How do we fit in our key players and establised first teamers into a solid formation?
4-3-2-1
GK - Elliot
DR - Richardson
DC - Dailly
DC - Semedo
DL -Youga
MR - Sam
MC - Racon
ML - Basey
AMC - Shelvey
AMC - Bailey
FC - Burton
4-3-2-1
GK - Elliot
DR - Richardson
DC - Dailly
DC - Llera
DL - Youga
MC - Semedo
MC - Bailey
MC - Racon
AMR - Shelvey
AML - Sam
FC - Burton
4-3-3
GK - Elliot
DR - Richardson
DC - Dailly
DC - Llera
DL - Youga
MC - Shelvey
MC - Semedo
MC - Racon
FC - Bailey
FC - Burton
FC - Sam
I think he was just testing his options...
seeing if 442 worked,
seeing if Gray and Mcleod worked,
and he got away with it....
he now knows that we wobble and potentially are AWFUL when closing out a game with 442...
Richardson looked reasonable as did dailey and llera they were all injured but prepared to stay on and fight for the cause which i felt showed throughout the team saturday.
We had 5 goals 3 of which were ours we won i went home happy, i dont think we can ask to much more so early and in that heat. It was to hot to sit let alone run around!!
is that a 7 yrs old drawing of the two badges... I know we are league one but for goodness sake couldnt they rip it of the net or something......
I do have a slight concern that Jonjo is getting a bit big for his Charlton boots - constantly demanding the ball, showing frustration when he doesn't get it, and not wanting to be subbed, No problem with his commitment and enthusiasm, but it's a team game and he needs to demonstrate that he can put the team ahead of his personal interests at times. Delighted he's still here, though!
Second half we did well, but the last 15 minutes were panic stations as usual, but we held on. Think our midfield is going to be one if not the best in the league in quality. Semedo won the ball well. Racon/Bailey/Shelvey can dominate game as this level. Defence lacks pace, time will tell if it'll do well. Up front Burton did okay and McLeod nearly scored TWICE.
Lot of positives for the season ahead with room from improvement but I'm quietly confident we might actually be able to do something this year.
I would be much more concerned if he wasn't demanding the ball, if he never got frustrated and i'd certainly be concerned if he wanted to be subbed. If you dont want him to do all that surely your taking away the enthusiasm that you said you dont have a problem with
Uncle, I find it very hard to be even mildly critical of Jonjo - he is undoubtedly a superb talent, and by all accounts a great lad. However, I always feel uncomfortable when any player anywhere behaves in a way that suggests that he might think he is better than or more important than the rest of the team - I'm not saying Jonjo does that, but there were a few early warning signs there for me on Sat. I just worry a little bit that he is putting himself under so much pressure to do everything and always be in the thick of things. That can sometimes be to the detriment of his own form and the team's.
As a fan watching the game, rather than his relative, do you not think it might have been better to sub him and keep Sam on? In that way the formation could have stayed the same, with McLeod as a direct replacement just behind the striker. Just based on the state of the game on Sat.
Don't think he's got too big for his boots. Out of the five midfielders I think he was the one who seemed least familiar with his role which is to be expected given his relative level of experience. I think he was wanting to get involved in the things that Racon was doing so well but there was no need so he appeared to be drifting out of the game especially in the second half.
I'd like to have seen him get closer to Burton when we're attacking and his tackling definitely needs improvement. There were a couple of times he was lucky not to get injured because of his tentativeness (if that's a word?). But the lad's class and is learning all the time.
Many did but i did try to tell everyone he wasn't going anywhere just yet. I hope so too cos i have a feeling this is gonna be a good year to watch Charlton much better than last year anyway !!!
And so mnay more thrills and spills than at West Ham!!! ;-)
Weegie, I echo your statement fully. We have to remember also how young Jonjo is. I'm sure he wants to play every minute of every game as most youngsters would. Some days, he will be great , others he will not, IMHO, Parky's mistake on Saturday was not actually making the substitutions (at 3-1 up, I felt it was right to give Gray and McLeod a run out), but your right , he should have subbed Jonjo rather than Lloyd Sam. Obviously Parky has great faith in Jonjo and rightly so, but be cautious with him at times.
I can't believe that they only gave Burton 5!
I know we are talking a much lower level but I thought Burton was Bartlettlike in the lone striker role on Saturday and I mean that as a compliment.
They weren't watching him properly then. In the end we know and I think Parkinson knows Burton did his job very well. If Sam had set him up when he should have he'd have probably had a goal as well.
I don't think 3-5-2 is playing to our strengths though. It will limit Sam/Richardson in that they'll have to do a lot more running and will need midfielders and strikers running out wide, rather than having someone else already in position to work with.
We don't really have a left wing back - Youga could play there but I think it would be too much for him, left midfield is ok for Bailey but I can't imagine left wing back suiting him.
There are reasons no one really uses 3-5-2 any more. Managers must know how to break it down and there probably aren't enough players around that can play it. You'd think it would be ideal for England with the midfielders we have, and players like Ashley Cole should be ideal as wing backs.
If that was me mentioning him coming deep to get the ball, I really meant he does that because he's not an out and out striker, he's not got real pace like McLeod or Dickson, he doesn't try and push right up. If he can play further up and closer to Burton, it's much closer to 4-4-2 than a flat 4-5-1.
Not sure about playing Tuna yet, from what I've seen Dickson and McLeod are better and they rarely impress me themselves. For me, if we play 2 strikers, it's got to be Burton with McLeod or Dickson. Right mixture of pace and intelligence, and having different types of strikers will help the midfield, especially Jonjo and Sam, when it comes to creating chances.
In an ideal world we would have won 5-0, but we have limited players not premier league ones playing for us, they are going to make mistakes & we must accept that.
How many other teams have a class equivalent of a Shelvey, Bailey or Racon in their midfield in this league, I'll hazard a guess at not many. Much more to be positive about than be negative in my opinion.
On the Shelvey issue, you will remember he didn't have a particularly great game then either, and went on to have a good season.
Personally last year was never convinced by our performance. This year, we had a very good first half apart from the goal we conceded (really didn't help with Llera going off) and the minor errors of poor touches or decision making. We've managed to keep our best players, the midfield, and with a bit more confidence and games we might well finish those chances we created. Another day we'd have been 4-0 up. Last year Swansea just couldn't score.
We also know the three new defenders had injury problems, and need time to gel. And of course we'll hopefully bring in a couple of defenders, a winger and striker. Having better options on the bench might have made the difference and we might have gone on to win 4 or 5-1 in the second half. If possible we'll improve on McLeod, we'll have a direct replacement for Sam and Gray will be fitter if he stays.
Honourable mention for Dailly, but reads like people's player of the match is between Burton and Racon ... probably Racon edges it.