[cite]Posted By: adamtheaddick[/cite]no such thing as bad publicity Large??
telling however million watch just how much debt and bad shape were in?? and were odds on to drop another league?? why not Watford? Southampton? the saints were a premiere league team longer than we were, lazy journalisim in my book and could come back to bit us on the arse.. not gona look good for any would be interested party, why invest in a team who is going down the pan... as long as there is a sectiona bout how has a club no one will ever match us for over comming obsticles we are charlton.. we have over come more than any club will ever endure in my opinon.
Adam, they did Southampton last week and are doing Watford next week, so no picking on us. People at work ask me all the time 'what has happened to Charlton' and am sure many others out there are wondering the same. If it comes across as the players are confident and a happy camp then that at least shows they are behind the manager and not divided as some fans think. And a media blackout would do more harm than good. Would suggest that all isn't well, that somethuing is up and that we have somethung to hide, none of which is the case.
[cite]Posted By: ken from bexley[/cite]It is a great pity that Charlton did not take the initaitive and persuade the fans when they were approached by the media to try and talk to there fans.
As others have posted the way out of this is to support the club, but to do that you have to understand the problems. Clear financial news by the club as well as regular dialogue with all the fans is essential otherwise you end up with speculation and assumptions. I have to say that some of the management decisions have to say the least been bizzare, from a club that was respected outside of the boardroom almost as a blueprint by lower league clubs.
The club has made mistakes, acknowledge it and listen, and move on together, or move out!
I'm not sure how the contact from the BBC to the Fans Forum came about. It may well have been via the club. I don't know but from past experience it may well have been.
You say clear financial news. Did this not happen at the AGM and with the publishing of the accounts plus the various statements to the press from Richard Murray and Derek Chappel ie in response to the stupid administration rumour that was been put around by an, IMHO, irresponsible Charlton fan.
In addition the three main PLC directors have, as Dave Rudd has pointed out, agreed to meet with the Fans Forum and discuss their questions.
Not saying it is perfect but I doubt you will find another high level club with so much financial news coming out.
[cite]Posted By: adamtheaddick[/cite]no such thing as bad publicity Large??
telling however million watch just how much debt and bad shape were in?? and were odds on to drop another league?? why not Watford? Southampton? the saints were a premiere league team longer than we were, lazy journalisim in my book and could come back to bit us on the arse.. not gona look good for any would be interested party, why invest in a team who is going down the pan... as long as there is a sectiona bout how has a club no one will ever match us for over comming obsticles we are charlton.. we have over come more than any club will ever endure in my opinon.
Adam, they did Southampton last week and are doing Watford next week, so no picking on us. People at work ask me all the time 'what has happened to Charlton' and am sure many others out there are wondering the same. If it comes across as the players are confident and a happy camp then that at least shows they are behind the manager and not divided as some fans think. And a media blackout would do more harm than good. Would suggest that all isn't well, that somethuing is up and that we have somethung to hide, none of which is the case.
ok Ken, if they are then thats fine but they will be able to have a say on what goes out, there not over a barrell, working in tv myself the club will have a say on whats on broadcast and to let somthing like this happen from reading the blog then jesus were in a mess, if it had been an upbeat peice about good old charlton looking down the barrell once again but hey look at what they have done in the past to get themselfs out thats fine, but to mentioning numbers on our debt and basically saying were doomed feck them... i will still watch it tho ;-)
would you guys want the company you worked for on a National TV programme broadcasting just how fecked you are and that basically anyday now you could go into oblivion? It probably wont be as bad as the blog and the start of this thread states but the fact is were charlton, we dont air our dirty laundry in public, Just hope Kins takes the lads out for there pre match stroll when it airs.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]
Everyone should bne rallying in a positive manner at the moment. We're demanding it off coaches and players, but it need the fans to be fully behind it as well
[cite]Posted By: Dave Rudd[/cite]
Exactly the theme of the Fans' Forum communication to the Board, of which more news after next week's meeting (Thursday night) hopefully
Depends entirely as interpretation.
I certainly did not read it that way. To me it was demanding answers rather than 'rallying in a positive manner'. And again, ill-timed.
Some quotes from the formal communication and the accompanying e-mail in which it was delivered:
Please be assured that our intentions are to convey the scope and depth of feeling that fans have expressed on the issues described, and to identify collective positive action which can help the club improve its current situation.
In the interest of providing constructive suggestions regarding potential solutions to the current situation, the Fans’ Forum representatives have prepared this formal communication to the Board and Directors of Charlton Athletic Football Company Ltd in order to draw a ‘Statement of Intent’ reflecting the short, medium and long-term strategic plans for the club.
The Fans’ Forum representatives strongly encourage the Board to share its thoughts and plans according to the context provided by the above key questions and points. These may be provided in the form of a ‘Statement of Intent’ which will allow fans to understand the reality of the environment in which the club and its Directors are currently operating, and for those fans potentially to re-align their expectations for the club over the next few years.
We do not necessarily expect to be happy with the content of such a ‘Statement of Intent’. We do expect, however, to be able to use it to re-kindle the fans’ confidence in the Board and to gain assurance that our club, for which the Board and Directors are the elected custodians, is in safe hands, particularly from a business perspective.
There is a willingness and expertise within the rank and file of the current fanbase to help provide and implement the strategy which is so sorely needed.
Traditionally, Charlton fans are at their best at times like these. Give us the assurances we need, to help us to help the club we love.
I think there's enough 'rallying' there to satisfy anyone.
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]Sorry Barts I don't see that it will make 1 bit of difference,the should be bigger than that,they have 1 job to do and that is pick 3 points up,i dont see how a football focus article will make any difference,it's another case IMO of them or anybody else being too bloody precious.
exactly...
support in the grounds is where positivity will make a miniscule bit of difference saying on here we are shit/going down/brilliant/ going up will make no difference whatsoever on the pitch imo
i mean the positivity/negativity whatever isn't gonna make youga a decent player
[cite]Posted By: adamtheaddick[/cite]would you guys want the company you worked for on a National TV programme broadcasting just how fecked you are and that basically anyday now you could go into oblivion? It probably wont be as bad as the blog and the start of this thread states but the fact is were charlton, we dont air our dirty laundry in public, Just hope Kins takes the lads out for there pre match stroll when it airs.
Why ? Maybe they should watch it, they are as culpable as anyone for the mess we are currently in.
to much of a risk Large, feel there would be a few who would go 'oh we are shite, better call my agent..." few to many bar Holland that would adapt lets roll up our sleves chaps.. thats modern football for you..
I thought that we were regulated by the stock exchange as a company!. I thought the Chairman claimed that we were £4 million in debt, with £17 in director loans, to the club so was legally bound to provide this information
Charlton live/Time fm and the bbc have asked to speak to the club and it's directors, weeks ago 'who are considering it' when I spoke to the club on Monday!.
If you listen to Charlton live you would have heard me amongst others emailing and speaking about this exact situation.
Wether it is of any 'effect' to speak to any media organisation depends on what you say , or omit to comment on. You can always decline to comment.
I am not her to defend media companies, but remember our Chairman is involved with one, and Michael Grade is chairman of ITV and former bbc chairman, I would have thought more than capable of advising Charlton in this issue.
[cite]Posted By: Dave Rudd[/cite] My question to you is 'when would be the right time'? Would you rather that we had still not issued our formal communication and that we had no expectations from the meeting next week? Indeed, maybe there would not even be a meeting arranged for next week. Just how long would you have waited for the 'right time'?
As we discussed privately at the time, i saw no pressing need to rush it out. I felt it would have been advantageous to wait a day or two for the outcome of the Palace game, and to see what was publicly revealed the following day at the AGM. The result and outcome of those two events could considerably have impacted on both the content and the tone of the public release.
But that is just my opinion. Not saying one is right and the other is wrong, we just see things differently, that's all. Anyhow, we're side-issuing here.
As for the 'there might not have been a meeting had that statement not been released', then i actually find that quite worrying. I thought the whole mantra of the Forum in its initial remit was to liaise regularly with the top echelons of the club ?
I find this whole debate slightly depressing whilst recognising the strong views held by some.
Despite our lowly league position and the natural misery that causes, and yes I have been down in the dumps as well, I feel we need to lift our eyes to the horizon a little and reaffirm that we support a fantastic club, not just fantastic but a unique one as well!!
We should not let our concerns over timing and tone, deflect from the fact that there is not another club in the UK and possibly the world that has as mature an attitude towards it's fans as ours does. To have pioneered a Fans Director and then to have moved on to forming a Fans Forum with direct access to the Board is something to celebrate, not denigrate. That the dialogue may be a little less than deferential in a sign of the strength of the clubs relationship with it's fans not a weakness.
With regard to the "Statement of Intent" document specifically, when ten people meet and produce a document that all can sign up to, there are going to be tensions around content, timing and style; but could another ten of us produce a better document? I would have written the document differently, but would my version be any better than what was produced?I could decide that now was not right the right time to present it, but when would be the right time?
I take very much on board LAs comment that refusing to have a dialogue with the press would probably signal something to hide. By the same token, refusing to acknowledge the concerns of the Fans Forum with regard to the way things are, would also look like there were things to hide.
I'd ask people to consider now who would we rather be supporting: a club who has a mature, robust and healthy dialogue with it''s fans, openly encouraged by the Board; or a club who's fans are ripping out seats from their own ground and physically fighting amongst themselves? Would we rather support a club with people like Derek Chappell and Richard Murray at the helm; or one with Rupert Lowe in charge?
We all dislike "spin" and use of words like "demise" are the kind of words that journalists use to spice up a story. Lets just recognise the spin and let the story be told. Our story, despite the troubles of the last few years, tells of a club and fans in respectful but robust dialogue, an excellent team spirit with results now starting to turn our way, playing dare I say it "the Charlton way".
We have much to hold on to and feel proud, despite our lowly league position.
While I have utmost respect for your difference in perspective, please do not make up quotes on my behalf. I don't think you'll find the phrase 'there might not have been a meeting had that statement not been released' anywhere in my previous post. I was indicating that, by waiting for the 'right time', there may not have been a meeting scheduled for next week to address our call for the 'Statement of Intent'. Why turn that into a (dare I say) negative assumption that this would mean no meetings of any form?
I also don't understand how the Crystal Palace result would have changed the content. I don't see that Matt Spring's goal addressed the issues we have raised around relegation, administration and long-term financial strategy.
Let's see how things go next week. And, more importantly, whether we like what we hear or not, let's all start to back the strategy which will take us out of this current mess (aka 'temporary low point').
Just getting back to the thread topic - I don't know if you can bet on such things but if you can, I want a tenner on one of the Football Focus panel saying (after our 4min feature):
"It's a warning to the likes of Hull, Stoke and West Brom of what can happen if you get relegated from the Premier League."
I'll even go as far as to say, that little pearl of wisdom will tumble out of Lee Dixon's mouth.
What is it about today's society that compels people to complain about TV shows that THEY HAVE NOT SEEN?
We're a story, surely even the most completely blinkered and whiny amongst you can see that? We used to be good, now we're shit, the question's why. Rather than have Man U on each week, the BBC has tried to do a feature on a club that's outside the top flight and our change of circumstances and the background behind it is an interesting story for proper football fans.
If you don't like that, switch over to Soccer AM and watch a slag instructing a bunch of c*nts to kick a ball at a hole while a shit indie drummer lurks in the background trying - and failing - to look as cool as he can during his brief snatch of fame.
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]If you don't like that, switch over to Soccer AM and watch a slag instructing a bunch of c*nts to kick a ball at a hole while a shit indie drummer lurks in the background trying - and failing - to look as cool as he can during his brief snatch of fame.
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]What is it about today's society that compels people to complain about TV shows that THEY HAVE NOT SEEN?
We're a story, surely even the most completely blinkered and whiny amongst you can see that? We used to be good, now we're shit, the question's why. Rather than have Man U on each week, the BBC has tried to do a feature on a club that's outside the top flight and our change of circumstances and the background behind it is an interesting story for proper football fans.
If you don't like that, switch over to Soccer AM and watch a slag instructing a bunch of c*nts to kick a ball at a hole while a shit indie drummer lurks in the background trying - and failing - to look as cool as he can during his brief snatch of fame.
I don't like the fact that the media ask a question, if the time scales do not allow a comment to be made, for whatever reason they state "so and so refused to comment" when that is ambiguous and leads to all kinds of assumptions to be made by the media and fans. In some cases the directors are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. hence the "we're happy with pardew comments" from Chappell a few weeks before he got the heave ho. we were told by the press "we're doing a story about the club and pardew and we need a quote. what can we write?" if he hadn't have put that sentence in there they'd have put "chappell refused to comment on the situation" and then that would have led to all kinds of assumptions by fans and journos.
Ken from Bexley> It was me that you had the conversation with earlier in the week and i have since spoken to the Charlton Live boys, discussed that no one had been approached by the club except for Steve Waggott who had agreed to go on the show but no date had been decided. Since then I have put steps in place for Steve Waggott and Richard Murray to both be part of the show in less than a months time. Not bad considering this was in place yesterday 3 days after our conversation. I said that the club would consider it, as they do always attend fans events when asked CADSA, City Addicks, Fans Forum etc, Its more a case of when they can make it not a case of if they would actually do it.
Thanks a lot Suzi, appreciate your help and quick response.
I am sure all fans will be glad to hear informed comment from Richard and Steve.
As we discussed, and which you have seen in my posts on the Charlton web site I think this is an important issue for the club, as we both agreed. I see it as a constructive way forward, and to clear the air and focus on the job ahead i.e. winning and avoiding the drop.
After all we all want the best for the club, I appreciate your help as I am sure the vast majority of fans do
Comments
Adam, they did Southampton last week and are doing Watford next week, so no picking on us. People at work ask me all the time 'what has happened to Charlton' and am sure many others out there are wondering the same. If it comes across as the players are confident and a happy camp then that at least shows they are behind the manager and not divided as some fans think. And a media blackout would do more harm than good. Would suggest that all isn't well, that somethuing is up and that we have somethung to hide, none of which is the case.
I'm not sure how the contact from the BBC to the Fans Forum came about. It may well have been via the club. I don't know but from past experience it may well have been.
You say clear financial news. Did this not happen at the AGM and with the publishing of the accounts plus the various statements to the press from Richard Murray and Derek Chappel ie in response to the stupid administration rumour that was been put around by an, IMHO, irresponsible Charlton fan.
In addition the three main PLC directors have, as Dave Rudd has pointed out, agreed to meet with the Fans Forum and discuss their questions.
Not saying it is perfect but I doubt you will find another high level club with so much financial news coming out.
Spot on Large.
Some quotes from the formal communication and the accompanying e-mail in which it was delivered:
Please be assured that our intentions are to convey the scope and depth of feeling that fans have expressed on the issues described, and to identify collective positive action which can help the club improve its current situation.
In the interest of providing constructive suggestions regarding potential solutions to the current situation, the Fans’ Forum representatives have prepared this formal communication to the Board and Directors of Charlton Athletic Football Company Ltd in order to draw a ‘Statement of Intent’ reflecting the short, medium and long-term strategic plans for the club.
The Fans’ Forum representatives strongly encourage the Board to share its thoughts and plans according to the context provided by the above key questions and points. These may be provided in the form of a ‘Statement of Intent’ which will allow fans to understand the reality of the environment in which the club and its Directors are currently operating, and for those fans potentially to re-align their expectations for the club over the next few years.
We do not necessarily expect to be happy with the content of such a ‘Statement of Intent’. We do expect, however, to be able to use it to re-kindle the fans’ confidence in the Board and to gain assurance that our club, for which the Board and Directors are the elected custodians, is in safe hands, particularly from a business perspective.
There is a willingness and expertise within the rank and file of the current fanbase to help provide and implement the strategy which is so sorely needed.
Traditionally, Charlton fans are at their best at times like these. Give us the assurances we need, to help us to help the club we love.
I think there's enough 'rallying' there to satisfy anyone.
exactly...
support in the grounds is where positivity will make a miniscule bit of difference saying on here we are shit/going down/brilliant/ going up will make no difference whatsoever on the pitch imo
i mean the positivity/negativity whatever isn't gonna make youga a decent player
Why ? Maybe they should watch it, they are as culpable as anyone for the mess we are currently in.
Charlton live/Time fm and the bbc have asked to speak to the club and it's directors, weeks ago 'who are considering it' when I spoke to the club on Monday!.
If you listen to Charlton live you would have heard me amongst others emailing and speaking about this exact situation.
Wether it is of any 'effect' to speak to any media organisation depends on what you say , or omit to comment on. You can always decline to comment.
I am not her to defend media companies, but remember our Chairman is involved with one, and Michael Grade is chairman of ITV and former bbc chairman, I would have thought more than capable of advising Charlton in this issue.
As we discussed privately at the time, i saw no pressing need to rush it out. I felt it would have been advantageous to wait a day or two for the outcome of the Palace game, and to see what was publicly revealed the following day at the AGM. The result and outcome of those two events could considerably have impacted on both the content and the tone of the public release.
But that is just my opinion. Not saying one is right and the other is wrong, we just see things differently, that's all. Anyhow, we're side-issuing here.
As for the 'there might not have been a meeting had that statement not been released', then i actually find that quite worrying. I thought the whole mantra of the Forum in its initial remit was to liaise regularly with the top echelons of the club ?
Despite our lowly league position and the natural misery that causes, and yes I have been down in the dumps as well, I feel we need to lift our eyes to the horizon a little and reaffirm that we support a fantastic club, not just fantastic but a unique one as well!!
We should not let our concerns over timing and tone, deflect from the fact that there is not another club in the UK and possibly the world that has as mature an attitude towards it's fans as ours does. To have pioneered a Fans Director and then to have moved on to forming a Fans Forum with direct access to the Board is something to celebrate, not denigrate. That the dialogue may be a little less than deferential in a sign of the strength of the clubs relationship with it's fans not a weakness.
With regard to the "Statement of Intent" document specifically, when ten people meet and produce a document that all can sign up to, there are going to be tensions around content, timing and style; but could another ten of us produce a better document? I would have written the document differently, but would my version be any better than what was produced?I could decide that now was not right the right time to present it, but when would be the right time?
I take very much on board LAs comment that refusing to have a dialogue with the press would probably signal something to hide. By the same token, refusing to acknowledge the concerns of the Fans Forum with regard to the way things are, would also look like there were things to hide.
I'd ask people to consider now who would we rather be supporting: a club who has a mature, robust and healthy dialogue with it''s fans, openly encouraged by the Board; or a club who's fans are ripping out seats from their own ground and physically fighting amongst themselves? Would we rather support a club with people like Derek Chappell and Richard Murray at the helm; or one with Rupert Lowe in charge?
We all dislike "spin" and use of words like "demise" are the kind of words that journalists use to spice up a story. Lets just recognise the spin and let the story be told. Our story, despite the troubles of the last few years, tells of a club and fans in respectful but robust dialogue, an excellent team spirit with results now starting to turn our way, playing dare I say it "the Charlton way".
We have much to hold on to and feel proud, despite our lowly league position.
While I have utmost respect for your difference in perspective, please do not make up quotes on my behalf. I don't think you'll find the phrase 'there might not have been a meeting had that statement not been released' anywhere in my previous post. I was indicating that, by waiting for the 'right time', there may not have been a meeting scheduled for next week to address our call for the 'Statement of Intent'. Why turn that into a (dare I say) negative assumption that this would mean no meetings of any form?
I also don't understand how the Crystal Palace result would have changed the content. I don't see that Matt Spring's goal addressed the issues we have raised around relegation, administration and long-term financial strategy.
Let's see how things go next week. And, more importantly, whether we like what we hear or not, let's all start to back the strategy which will take us out of this current mess (aka 'temporary low point').
"It's a warning to the likes of Hull, Stoke and West Brom of what can happen if you get relegated from the Premier League."
I'll even go as far as to say, that little pearl of wisdom will tumble out of Lee Dixon's mouth.
*sits and waits for Football Focus*
We're a story, surely even the most completely blinkered and whiny amongst you can see that? We used to be good, now we're shit, the question's why. Rather than have Man U on each week, the BBC has tried to do a feature on a club that's outside the top flight and our change of circumstances and the background behind it is an interesting story for proper football fans.
If you don't like that, switch over to Soccer AM and watch a slag instructing a bunch of c*nts to kick a ball at a hole while a shit indie drummer lurks in the background trying - and failing - to look as cool as he can during his brief snatch of fame.
Particularly when you open your comment with: "What is it about today's society that compels people to complain..."
MOG rolling about on the floor for Brian Marwood was funny too.
What a good post.
Ken from Bexley> It was me that you had the conversation with earlier in the week and i have since spoken to the Charlton Live boys, discussed that no one had been approached by the club except for Steve Waggott who had agreed to go on the show but no date had been decided. Since then I have put steps in place for Steve Waggott and Richard Murray to both be part of the show in less than a months time. Not bad considering this was in place yesterday 3 days after our conversation. I said that the club would consider it, as they do always attend fans events when asked CADSA, City Addicks, Fans Forum etc, Its more a case of when they can make it not a case of if they would actually do it.
Miserable old git
I am sure all fans will be glad to hear informed comment from Richard and Steve.
As we discussed, and which you have seen in my posts on the Charlton web site I think this is an important issue for the club, as we both agreed.
I see it as a constructive way forward, and to clear the air and focus on the job ahead i.e. winning and avoiding the drop.
After all we all want the best for the club, I appreciate your help as I am sure the vast majority of fans do
Don't be a prick. It is unnecessary and takes away from the points you are making.