[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]I'm teetotal and set down all game.
But it's ok to be old, miserable and abuse the team
I agree listening to moaners (whatever age incidentally!) is irritating.
It just seems that we have countless discussions about our "crap" away support and yet when we take reasonable numbers a section (namely the old) are abused and criticised.
I've met a fair few of you now and know that you're good lads and lasses but anybody of a certain age or older reading this thread could be discouraged from attending away games in my humble opinion.
Geez what a bizzare thread this is.....you should go back and read it...
Ive sat here for the last 10 minutes or so and to be honest this thread has really deteriorated. We have fans moaning about the lack of away support, we have fans moaning at the fans who attend, but dont sing, we have fans moaning about the manager, we have fans moaning about individual players. Im not happy with our current form, but Im not going to go over the top.....I attend games, home and away...Im not a singer, Im not an oldun, Im not a youngun.....I just support my team, and thats Charlton. Lets all just stop and get a grip guys...we all support our team in our own ways...the very fact that we attend means we care. I stopped reading the fans views on the OS because I was so sick of the bickering, lets not let this excellent site go down the same road
There is not singing and then there is not supporting.
Unfortunately, the latter was applicable on Saturday in my opinion.
Before this season i sat in the Lower West for close to 10 years and although there was not singing it was obvious people cared. They'd give out the occasional "Come on you addicks" and "come on boys lets do this".
There was nothing like that on saturday. Just shhhhhhhhh.
As other have said, it's the people, like the man infront who sat in front of me, arms folded moaning like Charlie Block without his nurse.
But next to me, was a bloke in his 70's who was giving the ref grief, on his feet, singing along and backing the side, give me people like him, instead of the prick infront of me
People have been going to football and slagging off their own team/players for years. Its not a generational thing as many younger people do it now too. Its also ludicrous to compare with the atmosphere before all seaters.
I would far prefer to stand. I would far prefer terraces. I wish I could stand on the old East terrace now.
But in an all seater when the arrogant bastard in front of you stands for most of the game and I cant see a fecking thing I have really only got 3 choices
1) stand also and block the person behind me (child/younger/older person maybe - on Saturday it was a combination) or
2) try and enter a rational discussion with the guy in front who has already decided hes far too important and hes going to do precisely what he wants when he wants and feck everybody else.or
3) Sit down and miss most of the important moments of the game (I missed their first goal on that basis)
Clearly it would be an improvement to have standing areas or a choice of zoned areas.
I think my preferred choice at the moment is to not bother going at all. People were more thoughtful to each other in the past than they are now.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't think this thread is about standing, I've got it more as a thread for people to sound off about the large number of people at Portman Road who came, not to support the team, but to slag the team off
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't think this thread is about standing, I've got it more as a thread for people to sound off about the large number of people at Portman Road who came, not to support the team, but to slag the team off
Someone who has claimed to Read the Thread but has clearly not read it it all me thinks. Very well summarised Rothers anyway !
It sounds to me as if we had a clash of 'cultures' within a small area. I would have found a bunch of perpetually moaning whingers as much a pain as the bloke in front of me.
Where I sat was well natured and nobody was particularly slagging off the team (except maybe the bloke standing in front of me)
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]I'm teetotal and set down all game.
But it's ok to be old, miserable and abuse the team
I agree listening to moaners (whatever age incidentally!) is irritating.
It just seems that we have countless discussions about our "crap" away support and yet when we take reasonable numbers a section (namely the old) are abused and criticised.
I've met a fair few of you now and know that you're good lads and lasses but anybody of a certain age or older reading this thread could be discouraged from attending away games in my humble opinion.
and possibly why some others, young or old may not go themselves due to the non-atmosphere/encouragement of the team in times of need!
it works both ways len. I'm not having a go at anyone here, and I didn't have a go at anyone at the match on Saturday, i don't see what the point is, I was just surprised at how different people behave/act when supporting their team. Yes, they were all supporting the team by being there, but apart from the numbers there, they were doing little to encourage them.
we're not having a fall out on this thread, its just a discussion about the type of following we had on Saturday. No one has mentioned standing or the atmosphere at an away game before seats got introduced, everyone can sit down and shout encouragement to the team.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite] a thread for people to sound off about the large number of people at Portman Road who came, not to support the team, but to slag the team off
First of all, I wasn't there, so don't know what I'm talking about before anyone else says it.
I can't really believe that people will honestly bother to spend time and money to travel to Ipswich with the premeditated intention of slagging the team off. Everyone just seems too quick to criticise - either the team on the day if it doesn't go well in the first 10-15 minutes, or their fellow supporters for not behaving the same as them. It's a vicious circle created by the disappointment at where we currently find ourselves, and people have different ways of expressing it, but none of it is particularly pleasant.
For the record, I am a long term supporter but not old and I shout and sing my head off at matches and don't boo, although I'm not adverse to the odd moan on here!
whilst I don't agree that we were as 'unlucky' as the official site suggests, we certainly weren't as bad as we were at Blackpool. it was an improved performance of sorts, and they were battling to get something, it just didn't happen. there were people moaning and groaning before half time. I doubt they set off on their day out with the intention of having a moan, but they were wrong to set out thinking it was going to be a stroll in the park.
Weegie, the bloke in front of me, was on the teams back within 10 minutes, didn't react when Halford hit the bar, and got worse and worse until Inspector Sands really lost it just before there second goal.
There is a real problem with peoples lack of patience at the moment, it's chronic at the Valley, but never been that bad away from home, just on Saturday, that same Valley mentality made it to Portman Road, and it was really really sad
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]Weegie, the bloke in front of me, was on the teams back within 10 minutes, didn't react when Halford hit the bar, and got worse and worse until Inspector Sands really lost it just before there second goal.
There is a real problem with peoples lack of patience at the moment, it's chronic at the Valley, but never been that bad away from home, just on Saturday, that same Valley mentality made it to Portman Road, and it was really really sad
Sounds a bit like the bloke who sits behind me at The Valley! He also natters incessantly to his neighbour about his son's park team, gets the rules wrong most of the time, and doesn't seem to know who half our players are, even though he claims to have been going for years! Of course, if I try to gently inform him about the rules or the players, he completely ignores it, as what could a female possibly know about football?? So I do know what you mean and it is very frustrating...
Ipswich had fans behind both goals scored twice and still the atmosphere was worse than the Valley (on an average not sort of losing to Colchester/QPR/Preston or winning against Palace/Stoke kind of basis). In fact winning against Ipswich kind of day.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't think this thread is about standing, I've got it more as a thread for people to sound off about the large number of people at Portman Road who came, not to support the team, but to slag the team off
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't think this thread is about standing, I've got it more as a thread for people to sound off about the large number of people at Portman Road who came, not to support the team, but to slag the team off
Spot on Rothko!!
Its also about tolerance of how others behave at a match. As I said earlier people have been whingeing and moaning for years. The difference now is with all seater stadiums you cant get easily get into the area which suits your preference be that whingeing/singing/not singing/standing/drinking cocoa/doing make up/eating peanuts (my preference)/farting (another favourite)/sleeping. And as I said before there was none of this disgraceful whingeing where I was.
In my opinion, this is all being blown completely out of proportion.
Things aren't going great at the moment, and when that happens people react in different ways. Not just in football, but in all aspects of life. And when its not going well, that's when it sometimes turns into internal disagreements; We've seen it on here in the last month or so, and it appears NLA had a similar thing at the game on Sat. These things have ALWAYS happened, its heat of the moment stuff and shouldn't be dragged out of proportion. For example, me and Rothko had a big row at a game with each other over something similar long before we actually met.
As for the singing / staying quiet thing, this also will always happen. Those that want to make a racket can't understand why people would travel to a game and not get involved, those who don't sing perhaps don't really understand the identity / unity aspect gained when you are collectively vocal, or the positive influence it can sometimes have in changing a game. Perhaps singing football songs becomes childish to you as you get older, i don't know.
There has to be an acceptance on both parts that both groups exist, and bickering between both is harmful to all. Those that don't wish to be vocal should be more tolerant of those who are, or move themselves away, and those who are shouldn't be critical of the other camp. Both can create further division. A couple of people in front of us were joining in the singing, we're not with us, but were shouting out things like 'sing up you c**ts'. That really will do nothing to improve situations.
People will always 'moan' at football, that will never change. The way to counter it is to hope others join you in being vocally supportive, not by directing your efforts into slating the moaners. Make your point and leave it at that, because when those situations escalate, no one normally comes away with any credit, or enjoyment.
In summary, people on all aspects have to be more tolerant of others.
Comments
I agree listening to moaners (whatever age incidentally!) is irritating.
It just seems that we have countless discussions about our "crap" away support and yet when we take reasonable numbers a section (namely the old) are abused and criticised.
I've met a fair few of you now and know that you're good lads and lasses but anybody of a certain age or older reading this thread could be discouraged from attending away games in my humble opinion.
:-)
Ive sat here for the last 10 minutes or so and to be honest this thread has really deteriorated. We have fans moaning about the lack of away support, we have fans moaning at the fans who attend, but dont sing, we have fans moaning about the manager, we have fans moaning about individual players. Im not happy with our current form, but Im not going to go over the top.....I attend games, home and away...Im not a singer, Im not an oldun, Im not a youngun.....I just support my team, and thats Charlton. Lets all just stop and get a grip guys...we all support our team in our own ways...the very fact that we attend means we care. I stopped reading the fans views on the OS because I was so sick of the bickering, lets not let this excellent site go down the same road
I think this is where the gripe is to be fair Tel. The people I came across on Saturday didnt do that....
Unfortunately, the latter was applicable on Saturday in my opinion.
Before this season i sat in the Lower West for close to 10 years and although there was not singing it was obvious people cared. They'd give out the occasional "Come on you addicks" and "come on boys lets do this".
There was nothing like that on saturday. Just shhhhhhhhh.
Or "booooo" and "get him off he's crap" etc etc.
But next to me, was a bloke in his 70's who was giving the ref grief, on his feet, singing along and backing the side, give me people like him, instead of the prick infront of me
I didnt realise you were next to Henry.......
People have been going to football and slagging off their own team/players for years. Its not a generational thing as many younger people do it now too. Its also ludicrous to compare with the atmosphere before all seaters.
I would far prefer to stand. I would far prefer terraces. I wish I could stand on the old East terrace now.
But in an all seater when the arrogant bastard in front of you stands for most of the game and I cant see a fecking thing I have really only got 3 choices
1) stand also and block the person behind me (child/younger/older person maybe - on Saturday it was a combination) or
2) try and enter a rational discussion with the guy in front who has already decided hes far too important and hes going to do precisely what he wants when he wants and feck everybody else.or
3) Sit down and miss most of the important moments of the game (I missed their first goal on that basis)
Clearly it would be an improvement to have standing areas or a choice of zoned areas.
I think my preferred choice at the moment is to not bother going at all. People were more thoughtful to each other in the past than they are now.
It should be
"We are Charlton,
We are Charlton,
We are Football Kings!"
At West Ham maybe that is what you sing but not at Charlton.
Someone who has claimed to Read the Thread but has clearly not read it it all me thinks. Very well summarised Rothers anyway !
Where I sat was well natured and nobody was particularly slagging off the team (except maybe the bloke standing in front of me)
and possibly why some others, young or old may not go themselves due to the non-atmosphere/encouragement of the team in times of need!
it works both ways len. I'm not having a go at anyone here, and I didn't have a go at anyone at the match on Saturday, i don't see what the point is, I was just surprised at how different people behave/act when supporting their team. Yes, they were all supporting the team by being there, but apart from the numbers there, they were doing little to encourage them.
we're not having a fall out on this thread, its just a discussion about the type of following we had on Saturday. No one has mentioned standing or the atmosphere at an away game before seats got introduced, everyone can sit down and shout encouragement to the team.
First of all, I wasn't there, so don't know what I'm talking about before anyone else says it.
I can't really believe that people will honestly bother to spend time and money to travel to Ipswich with the premeditated intention of slagging the team off. Everyone just seems too quick to criticise - either the team on the day if it doesn't go well in the first 10-15 minutes, or their fellow supporters for not behaving the same as them. It's a vicious circle created by the disappointment at where we currently find ourselves, and people have different ways of expressing it, but none of it is particularly pleasant.
For the record, I am a long term supporter but not old and I shout and sing my head off at matches and don't boo, although I'm not adverse to the odd moan on here!
There is a real problem with peoples lack of patience at the moment, it's chronic at the Valley, but never been that bad away from home, just on Saturday, that same Valley mentality made it to Portman Road, and it was really really sad
Sounds a bit like the bloke who sits behind me at The Valley! He also natters incessantly to his neighbour about his son's park team, gets the rules wrong most of the time, and doesn't seem to know who half our players are, even though he claims to have been going for years! Of course, if I try to gently inform him about the rules or the players, he completely ignores it, as what could a female possibly know about football?? So I do know what you mean and it is very frustrating...
Spot on Rothko!!
Its also about tolerance of how others behave at a match. As I said earlier people have been whingeing and moaning for years. The difference now is with all seater stadiums you cant get easily get into the area which suits your preference be that whingeing/singing/not singing/standing/drinking cocoa/doing make up/eating peanuts (my preference)/farting (another favourite)/sleeping. And as I said before there was none of this disgraceful whingeing where I was.
Things aren't going great at the moment, and when that happens people react in different ways. Not just in football, but in all aspects of life. And when its not going well, that's when it sometimes turns into internal disagreements; We've seen it on here in the last month or so, and it appears NLA had a similar thing at the game on Sat. These things have ALWAYS happened, its heat of the moment stuff and shouldn't be dragged out of proportion. For example, me and Rothko had a big row at a game with each other over something similar long before we actually met.
As for the singing / staying quiet thing, this also will always happen. Those that want to make a racket can't understand why people would travel to a game and not get involved, those who don't sing perhaps don't really understand the identity / unity aspect gained when you are collectively vocal, or the positive influence it can sometimes have in changing a game. Perhaps singing football songs becomes childish to you as you get older, i don't know.
There has to be an acceptance on both parts that both groups exist, and bickering between both is harmful to all. Those that don't wish to be vocal should be more tolerant of those who are, or move themselves away, and those who are shouldn't be critical of the other camp. Both can create further division. A couple of people in front of us were joining in the singing, we're not with us, but were shouting out things like 'sing up you c**ts'. That really will do nothing to improve situations.
People will always 'moan' at football, that will never change. The way to counter it is to hope others join you in being vocally supportive, not by directing your efforts into slating the moaners. Make your point and leave it at that, because when those situations escalate, no one normally comes away with any credit, or enjoyment.
In summary, people on all aspects have to be more tolerant of others.