Use of Water Cannon (which personally I would add dye to) is more problematic than I thought.
From the BBC today
Dr Peter Shirlow, a public order expert at Queen's University Belfast, agrees that such kit can be a very useful way of containing rioters by directing them into a specific area.
But he warns that, because it has never been used in Great Britain before, the authorities would risk "sending out a message that we have lost control" and inflaming tensions "in a country that has never been comfortable with the idea of militarisation".
Other options suggested here are touched on in this article
Additionally, Peter Waddington, professor of social policy at University of Wolverhampton, who has studied policing and public order for 30 years, says getting hold of them at such short notice could be problematic.
"You don't magic water cannons out of nowhere," he adds. "There are six in Northern Ireland, but this is the marching season. I'm not sure the police there would be too keen to send them across."
These are the children of Blair and Brown -----------they know their "human rights" they know about "work in the comunity" ----------they know they have been moved to a place where the "law" cant actually hurt them.Hundreds and hundreds of lawyers are waiting to represent these children of Blair and Brown----at the tax payers expence---------who knows maybe even Mrs Blair might be one that well known Human Rights lawyer. In the very dark days of Northern Island there is a famous film of a copper reading the Riot Act to a mob of protesters.They took no notice so me moved aside and the Paras dealt with it-----violently with pic axe handles. I remeber flinching as i watched it-----not nice--------but Jesus wept i would have cheared the house down to have seen that last night. I was in 10 Para TA and those pic axe handles has a metal strip round the end-------you didnt get up once hit.
couldnt agree more, its a sad state of affairs that our children have decended to this, but this has been coming for a while, as a generation there is no respect for law/order/elders/right or wrong, once 'smacking' became outlawed/illegal it was always going to end this way, if people aren't taught right and wrong from a young age, how can you expect them to follow the rules/laws.....
you learn right from wrong as a child and mainly through being wrong and getting reprimanded for it, you think twice again the next time and so on and so on. I''m a grown adult and could easily beat the shit out of my old man, however if I'm in a situation where I'm close to be doing something I shouldn't instantly alarm bells ring in my head and that first thoguht is, chill out steve the old man will have a field day, which is rediculous at my age, but i'm sure i';m not the only one
We all know that they can go in as hard as they like usually. They are not stopped by any laws etc. Anyone who has been going to football for any length of time, knows they will crack skulls willingly when they need/want to - if anything a lot of them love it and in the past Im usually their biggest critic. If this was football they would had been a lot tougher.
Don’t get me wrong I know the number involved and sheers scale is a big difference, but even so, they would be going in a lot tougher!
The one reason they are not, is simple. We all know it – it’s the racial implications. I know we can’t mention race on here (which is almost as bad as the government burying their heads on the same issue for years). The fact we can’t mention it on here just shows how bad the problem has become, when people are scared to talk about the issue.
But - If the police are seen steaming in on a group of black protestors, beating the life out of them, then we all know what the reaction will be don’t we. And yes I know there is plenty of white low life out there too, but you get the point.
That's what I want to know, this is crazy. I can't believe this is happening. When I was little my Mum would give me a thick ear if i didn't offer an elderly person my seat on public transport, how the hell do these kids just run around like ferrel animals?!!
I have just spoken to my sister in Mottingham, she has told me that she has received messages from her grown up children and close friends, that police are in Eltham as they are expecting trouble today, Welling are expecting the same and to leave shops by 3pm and Woolwich offices are also being advised to close.
I'm posting this for no other reason than to inform....obviously where I am (Midlands) I cant confirm but I have no reason to doubt my sister (she's 48).Perhaps those of you closer to the scenes may be able to confirm as I believe that is what is needed for up-to-date information.
We all know that they can go in as hard as they like usually. They are not stopped by any laws etc. Anyone who has been going to football for any length of time, knows they will crack skulls willingly when they need/want to - if anything a lot of them love it and in the past Im usually their biggest critic. If this was football they would had been a lot tougher.
Don’t get me wrong I know the number involved and sheers scale is a big difference, but even so, they would be going in a lot tougher!
The one reason they are not, is simple. We all know it – it’s the racial implications. I know we can’t mention race on here (which is almost as bad as the government burying their heads on the same issue for years). The fact we can’t mention it on here just shows how bad the problem has become, when people are scared to talk about the issue.
But - If the police are seen steaming in on a group of black protestors, beating the life out of them, then we all know what the reaction will be don’t we. And yes I know there is plenty of white low life out there too, but you get the point.
Penge High Street getting ready for something. Increasing presence of community officers (that should help), shops closing including Sainsburys where people were panic buying and looking pretty scared.
We all know that they can go in as hard as they like usually. They are not stopped by any laws etc. Anyone who has been going to football for any length of time, knows they will crack skulls willingly when they need/want to - if anything a lot of them love it and in the past Im usually their biggest critic. If this was football they would had been a lot tougher.
Don’t get me wrong I know the number involved and sheers scale is a big difference, but even so, they would be going in a lot tougher!
The one reason they are not, is simple. We all know it – it’s the racial implications. I know we can’t mention race on here (which is almost as bad as the government burying their heads on the same issue for years). The fact we can’t mention it on here just shows how bad the problem has become, when people are scared to talk about the issue.
But - If the police are seen steaming in on a group of black protestors, beating the life out of them, then we all know what the reaction will be don’t we. And yes I know there is plenty of white low life out there too, but you get the point.
Given how few police were out yesterday, it seems quite clear that the tactics were to try and contain the situation (as best they could), grab the cctv images and identify and pick them up later.
They've also said they wanted to avoid inciting the situation.
If anyone watched that video of the police getting charged in Woolwich, what do you think would've happened if they'd charged back and swung their batons? They'd have been surrounded, isolated and would've had the absolute crap kicked out of them.
That being said, I've seen at least four videos on the news this morning of police giving some people a good whack with their batons. But that was only where it made sense.
I think reacting to this mindless violence with mindless violence will not only be tragic and inflammatory but most importantly futile. Cracking heads with pick axe handles sounds a reasonable option and would IMHO turn what we currently are seeing into a full blown war. The perpetrators must not be allowed to get away with their actions however, so the police need to organise snatch squads in order to take out as many looters as possible from the situation coupled with severe sentencing policy from the from the courts. The police are limited in numbers so must target their action to achieve maximum impact. At the moment we are seeing them spread too thinly to be effective and therefore impotent. I believe it's now damage limitation for this "round" of rioting. Making sure that violent civil unrest in the future is not an easy option is now in the hands of the politicians and judges by creating a statement in sentencing those who now get put in front of the courts. I am not hopeful.
Comments
Use of Water Cannon (which personally I would add dye to) is more problematic than I thought.
From the BBC today
Dr Peter Shirlow, a public order expert at
Queen's University Belfast, agrees that such kit can be a very useful
way of containing rioters by directing them into a specific area.
But he warns that, because it has never been used in Great
Britain before, the authorities would risk "sending out a message that
we have lost control" and inflaming tensions "in a country that has
never been comfortable with the idea of militarisation".
Other options suggested here are touched on in this article
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14459127
Additionally, Peter Waddington, professor of social policy at
University of Wolverhampton, who has studied policing and public order
for 30 years, says getting hold of them at such short notice could be
problematic.
"You don't magic water cannons out of nowhere," he adds.
"There are six in Northern Ireland, but this is the marching season. I'm
not sure the police there would be too keen to send them across."
couldnt agree more, its a sad state of affairs that our children have decended to this, but this has been coming for a while, as a generation there is no respect for law/order/elders/right or wrong, once 'smacking' became outlawed/illegal it was always going to end this way, if people aren't taught right and wrong from a young age, how can you expect them to follow the rules/laws.....
you learn right from wrong as a child and mainly through being wrong and getting reprimanded for it, you think twice again the next time and so on and so on. I''m a grown adult and could easily beat the shit out of my old man, however if I'm in a situation where I'm close to be doing something I shouldn't instantly alarm bells ring in my head and that first thoguht is, chill out steve the old man will have a field day, which is rediculous at my age, but i'm sure i';m not the only one
We all know that they can go in as hard as they like usually. They are not stopped by any laws etc. Anyone who has been going to football for any length of time, knows they will crack skulls willingly when they need/want to - if anything a lot of them love it and in the past Im usually their biggest critic. If this was football they would had been a lot tougher.
Don’t get me wrong I know the number involved and sheers scale is a big difference, but even so, they would be going in a lot tougher!
The one reason they are not, is simple. We all know it – it’s the racial implications. I know we can’t mention race on here (which is almost as bad as the government burying their heads on the same issue for years). The fact we can’t mention it on here just shows how bad the problem has become, when people are scared to talk about the issue.
But - If the police are seen steaming in on a group of black protestors, beating the life out of them, then we all know what the reaction will be don’t we. And yes I know there is plenty of white low life out there too, but you get the point.
Think I'm gonna come home and take the family to sheppey for a couple of days
NF are marching not sure how true that bit is but its what i have been told
http://twitter.com/#!/search/@itsBARBZbabes
https://www.facebook.com/people/Jenna-Major/100000132288227?sk=wall
They've also said they wanted to avoid inciting the situation.
can't confirm but know someone who works in a chemist in lee and they have been told to shut up the shop.
"it was free so we took it innit, its cos of da rich ppl, they got businesses theyre rich, its their fault"
JESUS.