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POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic vs Southampton - Saturday 22nd November 2025 - 12:30pm Kick-Of
Comments
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Having stayed up most of the night watching the cricket i thought that was the worst bit of the day over.
CCharlton thought otherwise.
Then I queued for about 20 minutes to get into x bars only to be served a pint in a plastic glass.
Then I got soaked walking back to Charlton station.
Currently on train back to Chelsfield where I shall be outnumbered 3 to 1 when I say I want a curry and they all want a Chinese .
All of this on top of a poxy 12 30 kick off.
Sometimes I hate Saturdays11 -
We have been punching above our weight but today it really did look like a Division one team playing against a Premiership team. What mustn’t happen is heads dropping as our team spirit as much as anything keeps us in games. Fortress Valley was breached & ransacked today. We need to make ourselves horrible to play against again. It wasn’t until the 2nd half that if a defender got turned then we made sure the attacker got stopped one way or another.Even then it was never certain that another goal wasn’t coming for them albeit it was a mixture of our determination & them unable to maintain the level of the first half. It was far too easy for Southampton to play quick one two’s & get down our wings & create havoc. Armstrong was made to look like a Brazilian . He is a good player- but not that good ! Keeping things in perspective, we need to make sure we keep in this division, so the criteria must be don’t lose the next game. Stoke lost today so will be aiming to put that right against us. We need to stop them playing , keep things tight & personally I’ll be over the moon with a 0-0 draw. We need to show our character & I’m sure Nathan will be working hard to get in the players heads that this is a blip. This is where managers earn their money & so far we have bounced back from setbacks . I’m hoping for the same again.4
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I felt like he was one of the very, VERY few that could walk off the pitch feeling somewhat less embarrassed than the rest.bromleyjohn said:I don’t know if it’s me but why do I think miles leaburn doesn’t give a shit.22 -
Southampton were very good let's not take that away from them.
Looked like we were trying something different with the defensive setup. Probably because of the wingback situation it looked like a plan for Cov and Doc to drop into the backline more. The problem is their attackers were so fluid no one ever knew who was meant to be picking up who. Chaos from the off and there was a moment in the first 5 mins of Jones and Ramsay arguing over who was meant to pick someone up.
The other difference was that so far this season we have been excellent at winning the 2nd balls. We might not win the initial dual but always have the numbers pressing to win the 2nd. Probably a symptom of the above point with midfielders needing to drop into the backline but we were always outnumbered.
Left side was the massive weakness. We know Gilly has strengths and weaknesses at this level. His lack of pace is a problem. He works well with an Edwards/Bell ahead of him as a more defensive LWB. With Hernandez the gap between them was massive and so many attacks were started by expoiting that gap. Moving Gilly to LB/LWB was even more crazy! He was even more exposed. Should have been Ramsay LB, JRC RB.
Mad 8 minutes where we conceded a goal every 2 mins which given time for celebrations and restarts is weirdly impressive.
We've not had a side tear us open with such ease like that before. Was horrible to watch. Everything they tried came off.
Not convinced the changes made a difference tbh. JRC looked average at RB and terrible in CM. Apter hooked. He wasn't the problem but he wasn't solving it either. Clear Jones doesn't rate him. Wouldn't be surprised if we don't see him again.
Worried that both Leaburn and Jones appeared to be struggling at the end.
Bree back should help but desperately need some defensive reinforcements. Next 3 look tough games. Need to just battle our way through to January and hope we can strengthen the defence, particularly the left side.6 -
Probably because we were the Home team today compared to the Away team with IpswichSOTF said:Not sure if it was because of his history with them but we didn’t respect them anywhere near the same as Ipswich with our set up.
The better comparison would be Leicester, we didn't respect them when they came to the Valley either, and they had to rely on a wonder strike that day.
For the last year, there has always been a clear difference between how we setup for home games, compared to when we're on the road, even in the Championship we've continued on from looking more in control at the Valley, compared to what we do away from home.3 -
Not mentioned spending money or the difference in the value of players between the 2 teams. I'm talking about the style of play & formations. One of our best players in the Prem was Kinsella who cost peanuts.LargeAddick said:
Once we have been in and out of the Prem for a few seasons and can spend 20m on a CH, 20m on a keeper and god knows what else on others then we can expect to be more expansive too but we have a squad that cost us about 11m and you have to play to a way that suits what you have. Rome wasn't built in a day. A year ago we were outclassed at home by Crawley, today we were outclassed by a team in the PL last season. It is what it is, get over it.golfaddick said:
And the passes were forwards & on the floor....to players in space & already on the run.carly burn said:Their third was something else. Little triangles at the back with their keeper involved. Then completely split us in two with a couple of wonderful.passes. That right there was prem league versus bang average league one.
Compared to our backwards & sideways passing to players standing still or with their backs to goal.
Look how many times they got the ball into the box....either running with it or by crossing it. Compare that to our offerings. Chalk & cheese.
Our team & current set up will only get us so far.0 -
Ohh and Apter getting hooked early enough to avoid getting a mark on the players marks thread! Brilliant from him on what is likely the lowest scoring day of the season. Keeps his average up.7
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got battered in the first halfDom_cafc said:Anyone else notice the fish didn’t come up on the screen10 -
Painful, depressing viewing today. Not like ourselves under NJ at all.
As others have correctly identified, Hernandez and Apter on each flank as WB was an absolute horror. I can only think that Southampton knew this was where we would be weakest and targeted this with ruthless aggression. Scienza was tearing us apart on one side and I think it was Fellows on the other side - every time they came forward in the first 10-15 they looked threatening. I haven't watched the highlights yet, but we were getting absolutely ripped to shreds. The combination of a central attacking 3 and two WBs who were effectively wingers were just too much to handle. We had absolutely no bite in the midfield, were second to everything and were just all over the place in the first half.
I'll have to watch it back to see who was at fault individually for the goals, but positionally, we were all at sea. Hernandez and Apter are both attack-minded wingers that cannot defend, so to that end, they were square pegs. I've had my suspicions that NJ thought Apter couldn't do this role, but injuries forced his hand and he's tried it again to disastrous effect. I genuinely feel sorry for the lad - he needs to be playing in the positions TC tends to occupy, but with someone behind him. He's trying to do something he can't do. In Hernandez, the howler at Wrexham already gave me concern but this just cemented it. He's just the same, can't defend. Against any quality, they both crumble if we are being pushed back.
Combined with this, our usual stable core of Docherty and Coventry were made to look slow and clueless. Coventry looked nowhere like his normal self. Docherty didn't do the one thing that he's supposed to be good at in controlling things off the ball. This game was crying out for a bit of a Dobson-style player - get stuck in and be up for the battle. Maybe the travel impacted Coventry with the international game, but what excuse has Docherty got? Southampton dominated in every aspect in the midfield, and our captain absolutely got shown up. I just don't rate him and we can't keep carrying his inability to do anything with the ball. Also got a concern over the pedestrian pace that Macca showed, and LJones was 100% hobbling at for the last 10-15mins minimum. Reinforcements are needed quickly, and we've got nothing much else left in our camp.
NJ definitely got it wrong today, and will undoubtedly be fuming. His hands are tied with the injuries we have, but we're lacking quality in cover for the areas that have perhaps made us look a little better than we are. It's an embarrassing result. That said, it doesn't undo all the good he has done, and with the value of their squad, that team should be making it very difficult for us in games like this. It's just gut-wrenching to see no fight and a capitulation to such a horrific extent at home. But what to do? We're still several weeks away from the window opening. Change the system? Park the bus with a box midfield to stop the rot? Stop forcing the square pegs into arguably the most demanding role in this system? Glad it's not me trying to figure that one out. Even as a former FM enjoyer, it's quite the conundrum.
We literally have the comically-apt Stoke on a cold Tuesday night. Need to see a better performance to stop the rot and get back to basics of being a difficult to break down side. I've got my tickets to Coventry and they'll be looking to exploit us in the same way. Definitely some tricky games to come against some decent sides in the next few weeks.
A sobering loss. Navigating these games until the window is going to need some patience from us, and some character from the squad.9 -
I thought Apter was far from the worse player out there.cantersaddick said:Ohh and Apter getting hooked early enough to avoid getting a mark on the players marks thread! Brilliant from him on what is likely the lowest scoring day of the season. Keeps his average up.
Hooking him of early looks like he was the scapegoat.
Jones really doesn't like him does he.12 -
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Can't play 2 attacking wing backs at the same time that's for sure. I get we had no other options but can't be happening again. Bree back will help but have to find another solution.4
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lino offside flags correct, and I sit in a good place to see inAC stand.Sword65pf said:
And the Lino curbs side was worse!!LargeAddick said:Not been mentioned much but by God that ref was shit. Every challenge by us a booking, missed easy decisions for a couple of corners and on first look maybe a couple of pens on Jones and Knibbs, especially the Jones one. No improvement on the standard in League One0 -
I felt it was more because Scienza was terrorising us down that flankblackpool72 said:
I thought Apter was far from the worse player out there.cantersaddick said:Ohh and Apter getting hooked early enough to avoid getting a mark on the players marks thread! Brilliant from him on what is likely the lowest scoring day of the season. Keeps his average up.
Hooking him of early looks like he was the scapegoat.
Jones really doesn't like him does he.
Something had to be done about it though0 -
Hoping we can simply draw a line under it as a poor half and move on. Jones needs to take responsibility for some of it and not blame players. If he singles out a couple (unfairly) it could be the beginning of a bad run and players turning on him.2
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Did we have any one in midfield.Chunes said:They showed the gap in athleticism and technical ability. Some of our players really got shown up today, particularly in central midfield where they breezed past us at will.
I don't understand starting two wingers at wingback when they had that quality out wide. Only NJ will understand that one.
I'm sure many felt we'd take a tonking or two in this league. Probably better that it happened today rather than nearer the beginning of the season.1 -
Finally accepting something that has been obvious for months. On his bike in January, hopefully.aso914 said:Apter will make a good player but I don’t think it’s going to be for us he doesn’t suit our system and the recruitment behind him is mind boggling he is not a rwb he’s a pacy winger. I think he was seen as a project to replace small’s profile but he’s simply not a rwb.0 -
Attacking ? When did we do that ?😉☹️cantersaddick said:Can't play 2 attacking wing backs at the same time that's for sure. I get we had no other options but can't be happening again. Bree back will help but have to find another solution.4 -
Maybe watch it back, I think the positives are really a stretch, particularly TC and JRC.Alwaysneil said:Positives:
i thought Campbell, Leaburn and Rankin-Costello had good games along with Ramsay and Jones.
Negatives
Hernandez should not play on the left
Apter should not play where he has to be a WB
We desperately need Bell or Edwards back as with neither the lack of pace of Gilleshpey and to a lesser extent Jones are exposed. Is that where Fukuda plays?
All their goals were from our midfield/defense being pulled out of shape to try and cover for wing backs in the wrong place.0 -
He won't, neither physically or skilfully Championship level.MarcusH26 said:
I'd love to see him in his natural position or used as a No10. Started the season well but now seems to be completely out of favour. Still hope he can turn it around.LargeAddick said:I'm hoping I am not the only one with sympathy for Rob Apter? He's been shoehorned into a position to which he isn't suited and in a way been shafted in the process by NJ. He's a winger in the same way TC is a winger. I'm a bit baffled as to why he was signed if NJ isn't going to utilize him properly. If NJ isn't prepared to play him further forward then he's going to end up being an expensive mistake. But that is in no way Rob Apter's fault.
He was let down by far more experienced colleagues today as we were woeful all over the pitch yet it's him that was the fall guy.
I, for one, really feel for the lad.0 -
Although remember Bree too is carrying an injury.cabbles said:Overall, our progress since we’ve come back up has been good. We’ve seen a team work hard and fight against a lot of teams that are probably better footballing sides. Today is a day to forget but hopefully one that Jones and the team take a lesson from. I think Jones’ hands are tied with the injuries and the depth of capable talent at this level, and today was the starkest example that if we aren’t at it and giving 100%, we can get our backsides handed to us.Unfortunately, given the chasm down the left I think the next two games will be just as tough, it’s up to Jones to find something workable and I pray we can go in and frustrate both Stoke and Coventry and just hope the footballing Gods are on our side
I’m not sure what Hernandez brings to be honest and although he worked hard against WBA, he lost his head against Wrexham and is just not an option for wing back. Bree will be back on Tuesday which will give us some balance down the right at the very least, and if we’re going to insist on wing backs, it has to be Campbell.I would be tempted to get Anderson in the midfield alongside Coventry and have a holding two, play a back four with Ramsay at left back and see if that can at least bring some solidity on Tuesday. Apter, TC and Hernandez at wing backs are very square pegs in round holes
I’m not too seething given the manner of the defeat, but they do need to show more in the next two0 -
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As soon as Jones got one back and it went to 5-1 I was convinced we would win 7-6 after a brilliant last twenty minutes.Trouble is we didn’t go down to 10 men so it all fell apart.8
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No, want to see players who are physically and at a skill level necessary for the Champ, which he is not.golfaddick said:
That will be just like Charlton to get rid of an exciting attacking player. Like we did with Alfie May.ct_addick said:Apter is done…out on loan in Jan…gone in the summer
I despair. Do you want to see a load of journeyman like Docherty ?0 -
"but whereas physical effort and tiring out the other team can win you points, it doesn't work all that well against actual talent."ArmchairAddick said:Karim_myBagheri said:least for those there they got the rest of the afternoon to idk, try at least forget about what just happened. Plus it makes it easier for me to get a moody stream. so i also got sit through that shite.
I know our tactics were horrific, defensively too far forward and midfield not joining in on any press but those three ridiculously expensive players they have at the front were good in that first half.This is key I think. The fact is there aren't that many players of that quality amongst the teams in the Champ (imo). Yes, we did make it far too easy for them, but whereas physical effort and tiring out the other team can win you points, it doesn't work all that well against actual talent.In the first few minutes, I was thinking "Saints don't really seem to go in for many tackles or put much effort in". And that of course is because they didn't have to. They have enough talent in their squad who can pick the ball up and make something (all be it we made it far too easy for them) without having to get physical.
One of the truest comments I have read on here @Armchair Addick - therein lies our problem unless and until we can get some more talent in of our own!2 -
As well he should after the 30 mins today, that was Matt Penney levelsct_addick said:Apter is done…out on loan in Jan…gone in the summer0 -
The midfield issue was partly down to the wingbacks. In the first half it was clearly Cov and Doc’s job to cover the LWB space when Hernandez wasn’t there. Problem is that left us hideously open in the middle.
Then we were playing a back 5 with a winger at RWB, a CM at RCB, a RB/RCB as CB, a CB at LCB and a LCB at LWB. None of our back 5 were playing in a natural position for them, it was madness6 -
Apter wasn’t doing his job defensively, he was scapegoated because NJ was probably trying to limit the goals against by replacing him with someone more defence minded, the fact the replacement was utterly useless and can’t run, how long was he on before he got cramp? At this stage of the season seems odd and a worry. The game had gone and getting pumped by 8 rather than the 5 would have been a lot worse obviously.blackpool72 said:
I thought Apter was far from the worse player out there.cantersaddick said:Ohh and Apter getting hooked early enough to avoid getting a mark on the players marks thread! Brilliant from him on what is likely the lowest scoring day of the season. Keeps his average up.
Hooking him of early looks like he was the scapegoat.
Jones really doesn't like him does he.4 -
Although he man marked marked their 13 to make him less effective at least, something we should have done from the start.Sword65pf said:Oh also, I just don’t get the Rankin-Costello signing at all, he doesn’t even look like a footballer, think we learned today why we’ve not seen much of him, feel sorry as much as you like for Apter but if he doest’t do the job he’s being asked to do wether he likes it or not he deserves to be hooked.0 -
Id go as far to say that they did so much homework on our press that they knew exactly how Campbell would be highest up and the likley positions of Doc and Cov in such a scenario. They drew us in and executed it brilliantly.golfaddick said:
And the passes were forwards & on the floor....to players in space & already on the run.carly burn said:Their third was something else. Little triangles at the back with their keeper involved. Then completely split us in two with a couple of wonderful.passes. That right there was prem league versus bang average league one.
Compared to our backwards & sideways passing to players standing still or with their backs to goal.
Look how many times they got the ball into the box....either running with it or by crossing it. Compare that to our offerings. Chalk & cheese.
Our team & current set up will only get us so far.4 -
He couldn’t keep up with him, he was poor on and off the ball.getting cramp after the amount of minutes he played was embarrassing and a bit bizarre really considering he should be up to speed like everyone else.Southbank said:
Although he man marked marked their 13 to make him less effective at least, something we should have done from the start.Sword65pf said:Oh also, I just don’t get the Rankin-Costello signing at all, he doesn’t even look like a footballer, think we learned today why we’ve not seen much of him, feel sorry as much as you like for Apter but if he doest’t do the job he’s being asked to do wether he likes it or not he deserves to be hooked.0 -
From the start Apter and Handnandez were being found out, no criticism of either, totally out of position, by the time Nathan changed it we were three down. Is this time to panic, absolutely not, we have a system of playing that is 23 points successful, we are are a better side with our wing backs fully fit, Apter is a winger and so is Handnandez, the only things I would question, is our options in midfield and help for Miles up front. P.S fair play to Saints, bloody brilliant performance.2
