Qatar World Cup - Non Football Related Thread

MrOneLung said:

MrOneLung said:

I think the hand over mouth has caused more of a reaction than wearing the armband anyway. 

But I still think that once they got on the plane any protest is pointless. Either boycott the country or embrace the different culture and customs 

Enbracing homoohobia?

PragueAddick said:

I think it's better now to do what the Danes are doing, trying to rouse other countries to oppose the election of Infantino, and proposing to actually leave FIFA. It looks like Germany may join them. If England joined in too, that would shake FIFA and encourage more countries. It may have unforeseen consequences but that's the level at which this has to be sorted out. I'm firmly in the camp now that relatively too much is being asked of the players in this respect.This has to sorted out by the men in suits (and they are all men), and ultimately by governments. 

I would love this to happen, but sadly I think the chances are less than slim.
The only people with the power to pull the brake on the Gravy train calling at every footballing nation in the world are mealy -mouthed, gutless milksops who are knee-deep in Bisto themselves. 
If players get the diktat that they are forbidden to wear a multi-hued arm band or a pair of fucking bootlaces, then what chance for the dismantling of a multi-national corporation that has in-house indemnity from substantiated accusations of serial malpractice?
The machinations of this WC leave a bad taste in the mouth, but...
the whistle blows and we are witness to the greatest of sports on this messed up planet. 
  

Stig said:

RodneyCharltonTrotta said:

ForeverAddickted said:

https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1595411046532947968?t=wPq8b5aFYBisr2MI3QQjCQ&s=19

Put an armband on. All of this halfway house (our hands are tied) is pathetic.  They're pampered multi-millionaires and FIFA are not ISIS ffs.

Hardly standing in front of the tank in Tiananmen square is it.

Utter spinelessness.  Either don't do anything at all but this halfway measley mouthed gesture is weak as piss.

I'm part way with you on this, in that I don't believe that posing for a photo would have been as effective as wearing the armband and risking a card (or worse). However, as someone who has personally done nothing to protest, I don't feel that it's up to me to criticise how other people choose to protest. I might like them to do something which may be riskier and more powerful, but if they don't want to that's their choice. Not only is it unfair to place such expectations on them, but it means you end up attacking the wrong people. It's Fifa who are to blame for this mess, yet it is the players who you are turning your anger on with your 'spinelessness', 'mealy mouthed' and 'weak as piss' comments. By focussing on the players, you end up demonising the wrong people.

Sure, it would have been nice for the German team to have worn their armbands, as it would for the other teams who say they believe in inclusivity, but they didn't so let's at least credit them with coming up with an alternative protest that has kept the focus on Fifa's corrupt bungling and kept people talking about the issue.

Sorry to clarify as I don't think I am making my point clearly....my point is that i don't expect anyone to do anything at all. They are footballers...they go to work to play football domestically and internationally and they are not or should not be role models or political tools.

However, my point being is when they (players and the FA) choose to politicise things ie rainbow laces/ corner flags and social media posts about equality etc then they are choosing to do that and admirably so.   Where it invites criticism is that when they actually have a position of power to really make a difference in an environment where it is needed they don't have the backbone to risk a yellow card.

What is the point in preaching in England to fans who in the vast main are not homophobic in a country where there is legislation to prevent/ punish such behaviour but then effectively doing nothing when you have the opportunity when it really matters?  

It points that such shows are nothing more than mere virtue signalling.

It would be the equivalent of players taking the knee and espousing anti racism messages in England each week and then not taking the knee before a game in apartheid South Africa in case they get booked.

I don't expect any footballer or football association to do any form of political protest....however if of their own volution they choose to do so with constant social media messaging on equality etc and rainbow flag and laces days domestically holding themselves out as staunch allies etc then surely it is highlighted as little more than meaningless virtue signalling to then be completely silent on the issue in an environment that really needs such protest.... in the context of the worst punishment for doing so will be a yellow card or minor sanction rather than any physical danger/ imprisonment. If they were going to get deported or imprisoned, I would understand the reluctance- but that is not what is going to happen. It would be a yellow card and even then would FIFA want the criticism and negative PR given it itself supposedly espouses equality etc.

I don't expect the FA, Kane or others to protest at all but if they do choose to get the kudos for rainbow flagging in England where it really isn't required to anywhere near the same extent as other parts in the world then they are open to criticism for it just being another corporate/ meaningless virtue signalling.  

They supposedly care enough about gay rights to change their laces and lap up the social media kudos in England each year and be thought of as great blokes/ great progressive footballing authorites...but not care enough to risk a yellow card on the world stage in a backwards country that criminalise homosexuality. 

Any such displays of "alliance" in England in future are just meaningless and naff. All style over substance.

R0TW said:

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1595680145217552384?s=20&t=hAeKe1GuJ_gPiv6SHNvxaA

Pretty much nails it for me

Can't listen to it at work but does John Fashanu talk about homophobia? 🤨

RodneyCharltonTrotta said:

Stig said:

RodneyCharltonTrotta said:

ForeverAddickted said:

https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1595411046532947968?t=wPq8b5aFYBisr2MI3QQjCQ&s=19

Put an armband on. All of this halfway house (our hands are tied) is pathetic.  They're pampered multi-millionaires and FIFA are not ISIS ffs.

Hardly standing in front of the tank in Tiananmen square is it.

Utter spinelessness.  Either don't do anything at all but this halfway measley mouthed gesture is weak as piss.

I'm part way with you on this, in that I don't believe that posing for a photo would have been as effective as wearing the armband and risking a card (or worse). However, as someone who has personally done nothing to protest, I don't feel that it's up to me to criticise how other people choose to protest. I might like them to do something which may be riskier and more powerful, but if they don't want to that's their choice. Not only is it unfair to place such expectations on them, but it means you end up attacking the wrong people. It's Fifa who are to blame for this mess, yet it is the players who you are turning your anger on with your 'spinelessness', 'mealy mouthed' and 'weak as piss' comments. By focussing on the players, you end up demonising the wrong people.

Sure, it would have been nice for the German team to have worn their armbands, as it would for the other teams who say they believe in inclusivity, but they didn't so let's at least credit them with coming up with an alternative protest that has kept the focus on Fifa's corrupt bungling and kept people talking about the issue.

Sorry to clarify as I don't think I am making my point clearly....my point is that i don't expect anyone to do anything at all. They are footballers...they go to work to play football domestically and internationally and they are not or should not be role models or political tools.

However, my point being is when they (players and the FA) choose to politicise things ie rainbow laces/ corner flags and social media posts about equality etc then they are choosing to do that and admirably so.   Where it invites criticism is that when they actually have a position of power to really make a difference in an environment where it is needed they don't have the backbone to risk a yellow card.

What is the point in preaching in England to fans who in the vast main are not homophobic in a country where there is legislation to prevent/ punish such behaviour but then effectively doing nothing when you have the opportunity when it really matters?  

It points that such shows are nothing more than mere virtue signalling.

It would be the equivalent of players taking the knee and espousing anti racism messages in England each week and then not taking the knee before a game in apartheid South Africa in case they get booked.

I don't expect any footballer or football association to do any form of political protest....however if of their own volution they choose to do so with constant social media messaging on equality etc and rainbow flag and laces days domestically holding themselves out as staunch allies etc then surely it is highlighted as little more than meaningless virtue signalling to then be completely silent on the issue in an environment that really needs such protest.... in the context of the worst punishment for doing so will be a yellow card or minor sanction rather than any physical danger/ imprisonment. If they were going to get deported or imprisoned, I would understand the reluctance- but that is not what is going to happen. It would be a yellow card and even then would FIFA want the criticism and negative PR given it itself supposedly espouses equality etc.

I don't expect the FA, Kane or others to protest at all but if they do choose to get the kudos for rainbow flagging in England where it really isn't required to anywhere near the same extent as other parts in the world then they are open to criticism for it just being another corporate/ meaningless virtue signalling.  

They supposedly care enough about gay rights to change their laces and lap up the social media kudos in England each year and be thought of as great blokes/ great progressive footballing authorites...but not care enough to risk a yellow card on the world stage in a backwards country that criminalise homosexuality. 

Any such displays of "alliance" in England in future are just meaningless and naff. All style over substance.

I agree with this with two caveats (1) not sure if the players were instructed by the FA in which case they didn't have much choice (2) the rainbow flagging still has a place in domestic football where homophobia sadly remains more prevelant than in wider society particulalry in a context where no playing professional footballer (I think) has come out. 

Gribbo said:

2010 - FIFA award Qatar the World Cup and the world condemns the decision and is outraged for about a week.
Next 12 years - The world goes quiet and Qatar stays as it is. A few thousand people die, directly or indirectly, as aresult of FIFA decision and the world doing nothing.
2022 - World Cup kicks off in Qatar as was the intention and people / players think they'll be allowed to get away with wearing rainbow coloured armbands and hats in protest, and actually think it'll make a blind bit of difference if they do.

There's an argument that you can make a bigger impact protesting out there but I agree during that 12 year period something should have been done (removing them as hosts).

Raith_C_Chattonell said:

I was frantically trying to think where Infantino got the idea of aligning himself to the Qataris, Arabs, Africans, Gays, the Disabled, migrant workers and later on - for good measure - Women.

Anyway it came to me.  Ich Bin ein Berliner.

In 1963 John F Kennedy made a speech of solidarity to the people of West Berlin, but possibly more importantly, a thinly disguised warning to the East Germans and Russians.  

Kennedy closes his speech with, “I am a Berliner”.  His words carried more gravitas than Infantino’s perceived victimisation over his ginger bonce I think.

(Closing lines from 1963).

Freedom is indivisible, and when one man is enslaved, all are not free. When all are free, then we look -- can look forward to that day when this city will be joined as one and this country and this great Continent of Europe in a peaceful and hopeful globe. When that day finally comes, as it will, the people of West Berlin can take sober satisfaction in the fact that they were in the front lines for almost two decades.

All -- All free men, wherever they may live, are citizens of Berlin.

And, therefore, as a free man, I take pride in the words --

"Ich bin ein Berliner."

I am a doughnut.  Not sure why you should take pride in that.

MrOneLung said:

MrOneLung said:

I think the hand over mouth has caused more of a reaction than wearing the armband anyway. 

But I still think that once they got on the plane any protest is pointless. Either boycott the country or embrace the different culture and customs 

You're asking people to embrace homophobia.  Nice.

KBslittlesis said:

I’m appalled & disgusted that they dragged John Fashanu into this discussion.
Honestly, wtf? 😳🤬

I’m sick and tired of media outlets trying to “both sides” these issues by platforming truly horrendous people. It keeps happening and coverage of this World Cup is the latest sorry example.

Wish I was in the pub n all