Energy Bills

valleynick66 said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

valleynick66 said:

MrWalker said:

Members of the G7 have agreed to impose a price cap on Russian oil in a bid to hit Moscow's ability to finance the war in Ukraine.

Finance ministers said the cap on crude oil and petroleum products would also help reduce global energy prices. The cap will be set at a level based on a range of technical inputs.

"We will continue to stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes," the G7 said.

At their virtual meeting, the finance ministers said the oil price cap plan was "specifically designed" to reduce Russian revenues and its ability to "fund its war of aggression". They also said they wanted to minimise the damaging economic fallout of the conflict, "especially on low and middle-income countries".

In the aftermath of Russia's invasion of Ukraine the price of oil soared and has remained at high levels, meaning Russia has increase its revenues from the fossil fuel despite its export volumes falling.

The EU plans to impose an embargo on Russian crude oil from 5 December. It will apply to crude shipped by tanker and most piped supplies.

China and India - major trading partners for Russia - may not follow G7 policy on Russian oil, analysts say. They have not joined the Western sanctions targeting Russia.

UK Chancellor Nadhim Zahawi said the G7 were "united against this barbaric aggression", adding the price cap would "curtail Putin's capacity to fund his war".

US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said a cap would also help fight inflation, which is on the rise in many of the world's economies.

The price cap helps achieve "our dual goals of putting downward pressure on global energy prices while denying Putin revenue to fund his brutal war in Ukraine", she said.

Surely this can’t be right. We aren’t talking to our fellow European colleagues to try and redress the market rises so some have said 😉

To be seen if it has any success. 

It’s a complex market it seems. 

Well there are only three EU countries in the G7 for a start and none of the dialogue would be going through Brussels. So no we aren’t talking to the EU or at least this doesn’t confirm that we are.

Colleagues I said. Not the EU as a body. 

Also I believe the EU are invited to the G7. 

The point remains that things do happen behind the scenes before it reaches the public domain. 

ME14addick said:

KingKinsella said:

If you want insight into energy markets BBC Radio 4 "In the briefing room" "Can we keep the lights on this Winter?" on yesterday. You may worry about affording energy- there may be NONE to buy.  Norway's electricity we buy is based on Hydroelectric power(dams) and lack of rain means the Norwegian government have an emergency meeting next week and may well reduce sales to UK . France is taking power from us due to ageing/faulty nuclear power stations. Gas also covered.
Our government needs to take urgent action, the only speedy source of energy is on-shore wind- big turbines can be built in 6 months, only voters don't like them. (They can be taken down quickly too)They should be told straight the alternative is a Putin victory. This government is wrapped up in navel gazing. UK has wasted wasted so much time ......

There is no need to worry Liz Truss says we will not have energy blackouts this winter
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/31/liz-truss-rules-out-energy-rationing-this-winter-at-final-tory-hustings

valleynick66 said:

ME14addick said:

KingKinsella said:

If you want insight into energy markets BBC Radio 4 "In the briefing room" "Can we keep the lights on this Winter?" on yesterday. You may worry about affording energy- there may be NONE to buy.  Norway's electricity we buy is based on Hydroelectric power(dams) and lack of rain means the Norwegian government have an emergency meeting next week and may well reduce sales to UK . France is taking power from us due to ageing/faulty nuclear power stations. Gas also covered.
Our government needs to take urgent action, the only speedy source of energy is on-shore wind- big turbines can be built in 6 months, only voters don't like them. (They can be taken down quickly too)They should be told straight the alternative is a Putin victory. This government is wrapped up in navel gazing. UK has wasted wasted so much time ......

There is no need to worry Liz Truss says we will not have energy blackouts this winter
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/31/liz-truss-rules-out-energy-rationing-this-winter-at-final-tory-hustings

So the question to Truss should have been ‘how can you assure that?’  

But we don’t. We get sound bites  only. Why don’t people put them on the spot in a better way? Then the frailty of the statements can be exposed. 

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

Liz Truss seems to have lost touch with reality.

seth plum said:

It isn’t difficult to understand at all. 

When people go to vote, put the cross on the paper, they’re not having their arms twisted, it is a quite deliberate action, and nobody can blame their vote on anybody else, and it is never a mystery, even if some find the outcome a surprise.
I don’t struggle to know how this country ended up with Johnson, and probably now Truss, it is because people positively want it, and want all that follows I’m afraid.
I really struggle with the notion that people were tricked, or believed any lies. If a politician promised that men would have the babies if you voted for them, you don’t have to believe them just because they say it, you can apply a bit of thought, and treat your vote as the very precious thing it is.

seth plum said:

MrOneLung said:

seth plum said:

It isn’t difficult to understand at all. 

When people go to vote, put the cross on the paper, they’re not having their arms twisted, it is a quite deliberate action, and nobody can blame their vote on anybody else, and it is never a mystery, even if some find the outcome a surprise.
I don’t struggle to know how this country ended up with Johnson, and probably now Truss, it is because people positively want it, and want all that follows I’m afraid.
I really struggle with the notion that people were tricked, or believed any lies. If a politician promised that men would have the babies if you voted for them, you don’t have to believe them just because they say it, you can apply a bit of thought, and treat your vote as the very precious thing it is.

Ok @seth plum what was the last ‘good’ we had in your opinion?

The last good what?
Government?

seth plum said:

SantaClaus said:

It's pretty hateful to suggest that men can't have babies Seth. We're not living in 2019 anymore

I didn't actually suggest that.
You might be interested in this science fiction book:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Left_Hand_of_Darkness

MrWalker said:

Just the same disbelief that 350 million Americans end up with their leaders and the UK ends up with Truss. 
How is it possible we end up with such desperately poor options?
Is this how democracy looks for the future?

https://youtu.be/fLJBzhcSWTk

Croydon said:

Bournemouth Addick said:

SantaClaus said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

The government is likely going to be spending a lot of money on getting the nation through this winter. Assuming they borrow the money. How will this or any other interventions impact on Sterling ?

This. There's every chance we're already heading into a full blown currency crisis. Bailing out energy users by borrowing or quantitative easing could turn a very dangerous situation into a  catastrophy.

What's the answer then? Let them lose their house? Let them burn furniture first? Die? 

Profit cap and windfall tax across all major energy providers. 

ShootersHillGuru said:

se9addick said:

bobmunro said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

MrWalker said:

Members of the G7 have agreed to impose a price cap on Russian oil in a bid to hit Moscow's ability to finance the war in Ukraine.

Finance ministers said the cap on crude oil and petroleum products would also help reduce global energy prices. The cap will be set at a level based on a range of technical inputs.

"We will continue to stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes," the G7 said.

At their virtual meeting, the finance ministers said the oil price cap plan was "specifically designed" to reduce Russian revenues and its ability to "fund its war of aggression". They also said they wanted to minimise the damaging economic fallout of the conflict, "especially on low and middle-income countries".

In the aftermath of Russia's invasion of Ukraine the price of oil soared and has remained at high levels, meaning Russia has increase its revenues from the fossil fuel despite its export volumes falling.

The EU plans to impose an embargo on Russian crude oil from 5 December. It will apply to crude shipped by tanker and most piped supplies.

China and India - major trading partners for Russia - may not follow G7 policy on Russian oil, analysts say. They have not joined the Western sanctions targeting Russia.

UK Chancellor Nadhim Zahawi said the G7 were "united against this barbaric aggression", adding the price cap would "curtail Putin's capacity to fund his war".

US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said a cap would also help fight inflation, which is on the rise in many of the world's economies.

The price cap helps achieve "our dual goals of putting downward pressure on global energy prices while denying Putin revenue to fund his brutal war in Ukraine", she said.

What does the first part of the above actually mean ? By that I mean for the consumer ?

I'm really not sure how this will work. Russia has oil, the G7 have put a cap on its price (which presumably means they won't pay more for Russian oil) and then Russia sells the oil to India and China for the global market rate. In the meantime the G7 have to buy oil on the global market.

What could possibly go wrong?

It strikes me as only symbolic as the cap has been timed to take effect from the point when none of the G7 are buying Russian oil anymore anyway. 

It’s not symbolic. EU countries will now only be able to by Russian oil if it is transported by sea and is sold at or below the price cap. There is still need for EU countries to import Russian oil. That dependence is reducing but won’t be completely negated by this winter. If Russia continues to block gas exports via Nord Stream during the winter months then the economies of Germany and Italy in particular will be hit. Unlikely that energy rationing will not be required. Similarly in the U.K. where a large proportion of our energy in imported from Norway who are struggling to produce the hydro generated electricity due to the drought. Very different reasons but quite possibly a similar outcome.

se9addick said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

se9addick said:

bobmunro said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

MrWalker said:

Members of the G7 have agreed to impose a price cap on Russian oil in a bid to hit Moscow's ability to finance the war in Ukraine.

Finance ministers said the cap on crude oil and petroleum products would also help reduce global energy prices. The cap will be set at a level based on a range of technical inputs.

"We will continue to stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes," the G7 said.

At their virtual meeting, the finance ministers said the oil price cap plan was "specifically designed" to reduce Russian revenues and its ability to "fund its war of aggression". They also said they wanted to minimise the damaging economic fallout of the conflict, "especially on low and middle-income countries".

In the aftermath of Russia's invasion of Ukraine the price of oil soared and has remained at high levels, meaning Russia has increase its revenues from the fossil fuel despite its export volumes falling.

The EU plans to impose an embargo on Russian crude oil from 5 December. It will apply to crude shipped by tanker and most piped supplies.

China and India - major trading partners for Russia - may not follow G7 policy on Russian oil, analysts say. They have not joined the Western sanctions targeting Russia.

UK Chancellor Nadhim Zahawi said the G7 were "united against this barbaric aggression", adding the price cap would "curtail Putin's capacity to fund his war".

US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said a cap would also help fight inflation, which is on the rise in many of the world's economies.

The price cap helps achieve "our dual goals of putting downward pressure on global energy prices while denying Putin revenue to fund his brutal war in Ukraine", she said.

What does the first part of the above actually mean ? By that I mean for the consumer ?

I'm really not sure how this will work. Russia has oil, the G7 have put a cap on its price (which presumably means they won't pay more for Russian oil) and then Russia sells the oil to India and China for the global market rate. In the meantime the G7 have to buy oil on the global market.

What could possibly go wrong?

It strikes me as only symbolic as the cap has been timed to take effect from the point when none of the G7 are buying Russian oil anymore anyway. 

It’s not symbolic. EU countries will now only be able to by Russian oil if it is transported by sea and is sold at or below the price cap. There is still need for EU countries to import Russian oil. That dependence is reducing but won’t be completely negated by this winter. If Russia continues to block gas exports via Nord Stream during the winter months then the economies of Germany and Italy in particular will be hit. Unlikely that energy rationing will not be required. Similarly in the U.K. where a large proportion of our energy in imported from Norway who are struggling to produce the hydro generated electricity due to the drought. Very different reasons but quite possibly a similar outcome.

That’s not true - Hungary for sure aren’t going to be importing Russian oil only by sea, doubt they’ll even adhere to the price cap if Russia refuse to sell below market rate.