Energy Bills

ShootersHillGuru

kinveachyaddick said:

kinveachyaddick said:

Was always pretty clear that once Truss was confirmed as leader (or the ballots closed) she would announce some sort of price freeze. No matter how deluded she may be, if you have schoolteachers, police officers and other people in good, well-paid jobs unable to pay their energy bills then something has to give.

As expected the price freeze has been announced and a fairly considerable one according to initial reports. If she funds it with a windfall tax on the energy producers then personally will give her the benefit of the doubt on this issue at least

Where have you seen that announcement ? All I’ve seen is speculation or have I missed it.

se9addick

ME14addick said:

kinveachyaddick said:

kinveachyaddick said:

Was always pretty clear that once Truss was confirmed as leader (or the ballots closed) she would announce some sort of price freeze. No matter how deluded she may be, if you have schoolteachers, police officers and other people in good, well-paid jobs unable to pay their energy bills then something has to give.

As expected the price freeze has been announced and a fairly considerable one according to initial reports. If she funds it with a windfall tax on the energy producers then personally will give her the benefit of the doubt on this issue at least

More likely that the consumer will have the cost added to their bills over the next 10 - 20 years.

I think it will be via government borrowing, which of course we’ll pay back through taxation and cuts to services. There just won’t be a specific additional cost to your energy bills or a rise in taxation, because she fears the optics on either of those options would be bad. 

As @kinveachyaddick says, if she partially offsets the enormous cost of this scheme through a windfall tax on the energy producers alongside measures to make our energy market fit for purpose then I’ll be pleasantly surprised. 

kinveachyaddick

ME14addick said:

kinveachyaddick said:

kinveachyaddick said:

Was always pretty clear that once Truss was confirmed as leader (or the ballots closed) she would announce some sort of price freeze. No matter how deluded she may be, if you have schoolteachers, police officers and other people in good, well-paid jobs unable to pay their energy bills then something has to give.

As expected the price freeze has been announced and a fairly considerable one according to initial reports. If she funds it with a windfall tax on the energy producers then personally will give her the benefit of the doubt on this issue at least

More likely that the consumer will have the cost added to their bills over the next 10 - 20 years.

Not according to the Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/sep/06/liz-truss-expected-to-freeze-uk-energy-bills-at-2500-a-year

ME14addick

kinveachyaddick said:

ME14addick said:

kinveachyaddick said:

kinveachyaddick said:

Was always pretty clear that once Truss was confirmed as leader (or the ballots closed) she would announce some sort of price freeze. No matter how deluded she may be, if you have schoolteachers, police officers and other people in good, well-paid jobs unable to pay their energy bills then something has to give.

As expected the price freeze has been announced and a fairly considerable one according to initial reports. If she funds it with a windfall tax on the energy producers then personally will give her the benefit of the doubt on this issue at least

More likely that the consumer will have the cost added to their bills over the next 10 - 20 years.

Not according to the Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/sep/06/liz-truss-expected-to-freeze-uk-energy-bills-at-2500-a-year

The speculation has changed as the day has gone on. This morning the talk on the TV news programmes was that the cost would be paid by adding charges to the bills of consumers over the next 10 to 20 years. 

I guess we won't know for sure until Liz Truss announces it. 

twiggyaddick

ME14addick said:

kinveachyaddick said:

ME14addick said:

kinveachyaddick said:

kinveachyaddick said:

Was always pretty clear that once Truss was confirmed as leader (or the ballots closed) she would announce some sort of price freeze. No matter how deluded she may be, if you have schoolteachers, police officers and other people in good, well-paid jobs unable to pay their energy bills then something has to give.

As expected the price freeze has been announced and a fairly considerable one according to initial reports. If she funds it with a windfall tax on the energy producers then personally will give her the benefit of the doubt on this issue at least

More likely that the consumer will have the cost added to their bills over the next 10 - 20 years.

Not according to the Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/sep/06/liz-truss-expected-to-freeze-uk-energy-bills-at-2500-a-year

The speculation has changed as the day has gone on. This morning the talk on the TV news programmes was that the cost would be paid by adding charges to the bills of consumers over the next 10 to 20 years. 

I guess we won't know for sure until Liz Truss announces it. 

It feels like they are putting some feelers out to gauge public and media reactions. At different points it's been a freeze at the current rate funded by loans, current rate subsidised and paid for by taxpayer funds, then 2.5k at various funding options.

Rob7Lee

How does this potential Windfall tax relate to the previous one announced in May?

Manic_mania

to be honest, i'm more annoyed that this is being said now - how many people have been tearing their hair out about winter bills for weeks, and this possibility has been held back by the government until the new PM was announced - Shame on all of them. 

Covered End

Covered End said:

Rob7Lee said:

With the real potential of there being 'fuel' shortages this winter/January, maybe the government are foreseeing that and hoping people use less (because they can't afford to)...........

Quite possible, plus if the government say don't worry everyone we'll bail you out, a lot of people won't be saving up (if they could) for when the cost goes up again.
Not that I agree with that possible strategy.

Quite, it was always the most likely scenario.

Huskaris

Good news! I have been so careful with my energy consumption since the end of March that I am actually being sent a refund by EDF, I put it down to changing to LED lights and using less heating, and changing my flow temperature from when the prices went up. 

Vs the same period last year, I have cut my electricity by 25% and my gas usage by a huge 40%

So, on my £294 a month payments, I have been refunded £262. Brilliant. 

Bad news! They have just announced that my new monthly direct debit will be... £501, despite my total bill between April and August inclusive being just £995. 

Rob7Lee

Huskaris said:

Good news! I have been so careful with my energy consumption since the end of March that I am actually being sent a refund by EDF, I put it down to changing to LED lights and using less heating, and changing my flow temperature from when the prices went up. 

Vs the same period last year, I have cut my electricity by 25% and my gas usage by a huge 40%

So, on my £294 a month payments, I have been refunded £262. Brilliant. 

Bad news! They have just announced that my new monthly direct debit will be... £501, despite my total bill between April and August inclusive being just £995. 

£995 seems quite expensive as I'd have expected very little heating usage in that period, outside of April mine's been on for 2 days in that period and one of those was testing a new radiator.

MuttleyCAFC

Huskaris said:

Good news! I have been so careful with my energy consumption since the end of March that I am actually being sent a refund by EDF, I put it down to changing to LED lights and using less heating, and changing my flow temperature from when the prices went up. 

Vs the same period last year, I have cut my electricity by 25% and my gas usage by a huge 40%

So, on my £294 a month payments, I have been refunded £262. Brilliant. 

Bad news! They have just announced that my new monthly direct debit will be... £501, despite my total bill between April and August inclusive being just £995. 

Are you sure they haven't just looked at what you are paying and put it up accordingly? Without considering that you are paying too much. I was in arrears and they put mine up to an amount that was too much. I didn't mind as I didn't want to be in arrears but I am now quickly £500 in credit. I didn't want to change anything as I could see the incoming storm but I am half expcting them to put my existing amount up because quite frankly they are not the best communication wise and speaking to a competent person is not easy whereas a few years ago it was.

Huskaris

Rob7Lee said:

Huskaris said:

Good news! I have been so careful with my energy consumption since the end of March that I am actually being sent a refund by EDF, I put it down to changing to LED lights and using less heating, and changing my flow temperature from when the prices went up. 

Vs the same period last year, I have cut my electricity by 25% and my gas usage by a huge 40%

So, on my £294 a month payments, I have been refunded £262. Brilliant. 

Bad news! They have just announced that my new monthly direct debit will be... £501, despite my total bill between April and August inclusive being just £995. 

£995 seems quite expensive as I'd have expected very little heating usage in that period, outside of April mine's been on for 2 days in that period and one of those was testing a new radiator.

I love a bath unfortunately!

Huskaris

MuttleyCAFC said:

Huskaris said:

Good news! I have been so careful with my energy consumption since the end of March that I am actually being sent a refund by EDF, I put it down to changing to LED lights and using less heating, and changing my flow temperature from when the prices went up. 

Vs the same period last year, I have cut my electricity by 25% and my gas usage by a huge 40%

So, on my £294 a month payments, I have been refunded £262. Brilliant. 

Bad news! They have just announced that my new monthly direct debit will be... £501, despite my total bill between April and August inclusive being just £995. 

Are you sure they haven't just looked at what you are paying and put it up accordingly? Without considering that you are paying too much. I was in arrears and they put mine up to an amount that was too much. I didn't mind as I didn't want to be in arrears but I am now quickly £500 in credit. I didn't want to change anything as I could see the incoming storm but I am half expcting them to put my existing amount up because quite frankly they are not the best communication wise and speaking to a competent person is not easy whereas a few years ago it was.

I think you're probably right. I'll keep doing monthly meter readings and see how I get on. 

Rob7Lee

Huskaris said:

Rob7Lee said:

Huskaris said:

Good news! I have been so careful with my energy consumption since the end of March that I am actually being sent a refund by EDF, I put it down to changing to LED lights and using less heating, and changing my flow temperature from when the prices went up. 

Vs the same period last year, I have cut my electricity by 25% and my gas usage by a huge 40%

So, on my £294 a month payments, I have been refunded £262. Brilliant. 

Bad news! They have just announced that my new monthly direct debit will be... £501, despite my total bill between April and August inclusive being just £995. 

£995 seems quite expensive as I'd have expected very little heating usage in that period, outside of April mine's been on for 2 days in that period and one of those was testing a new radiator.

I love a bath unfortunately!

So does my wife, every day!

It's worth looking at your hot water tank and how long you have the water heating on for. Mine's a brand new megaflo and I've been surprised quite how well insulated it is. It's a big tank (about 330l) and I have it on for 30 minutes in the morning and 45 minutes in the evening (Gas boiler) and we have piping hot water - my monthly gas usage is about £25, we do have a Gas hob as well within that used every day.

I'm getting quotes for Solar and battery with the hope that after that my Gas usage will be zero outside of heating the house in Winter, the gas hob is being replaced with electric at the moment as we are having a new kitchen fitted.

Huskaris

Rob7Lee said:

Huskaris said:

Rob7Lee said:

Huskaris said:

Good news! I have been so careful with my energy consumption since the end of March that I am actually being sent a refund by EDF, I put it down to changing to LED lights and using less heating, and changing my flow temperature from when the prices went up. 

Vs the same period last year, I have cut my electricity by 25% and my gas usage by a huge 40%

So, on my £294 a month payments, I have been refunded £262. Brilliant. 

Bad news! They have just announced that my new monthly direct debit will be... £501, despite my total bill between April and August inclusive being just £995. 

£995 seems quite expensive as I'd have expected very little heating usage in that period, outside of April mine's been on for 2 days in that period and one of those was testing a new radiator.

I love a bath unfortunately!

So does my wife, every day!

It's worth looking at your hot water tank and how long you have the water heating on for. Mine's a brand new megaflo and I've been surprised quite how well insulated it is. It's a big tank (about 330l) and I have it on for 30 minutes in the morning and 45 minutes in the evening (Gas boiler) and we have piping hot water - my monthly gas usage is about £25, we do have a Gas hob as well within that used every day.

I'm getting quotes for Solar and battery with the hope that after that my Gas usage will be zero outside of heating the house in Winter, the gas hob is being replaced with electric at the moment as we are having a new kitchen fitted.

My gas excluding standing charge is about £45 a month in that period. That does also include filling a 700l hot tub 3 times in that period. 

Wife loves a bath too!

I'd love a megaflo. Water tank is very old. Hot water on for a lot (primarily because my tank is small so can't fill up for the day) but I'm happy with that I think. Like I said, I'd love a megaflo

MuttleyCAFC

Huskaris said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Huskaris said:

Good news! I have been so careful with my energy consumption since the end of March that I am actually being sent a refund by EDF, I put it down to changing to LED lights and using less heating, and changing my flow temperature from when the prices went up. 

Vs the same period last year, I have cut my electricity by 25% and my gas usage by a huge 40%

So, on my £294 a month payments, I have been refunded £262. Brilliant. 

Bad news! They have just announced that my new monthly direct debit will be... £501, despite my total bill between April and August inclusive being just £995. 

Are you sure they haven't just looked at what you are paying and put it up accordingly? Without considering that you are paying too much. I was in arrears and they put mine up to an amount that was too much. I didn't mind as I didn't want to be in arrears but I am now quickly £500 in credit. I didn't want to change anything as I could see the incoming storm but I am half expcting them to put my existing amount up because quite frankly they are not the best communication wise and speaking to a competent person is not easy whereas a few years ago it was.

I think you're probably right. I'll keep doing monthly meter readings and see how I get on. 

It might be as simple as the fact you claimed your credit back and they haven't factored that in so on your current direct debit your on an even keel. Ot at least they think so. Although you would think they look at average usage.

Rob7Lee

Huskaris said:

Rob7Lee said:

Huskaris said:

Rob7Lee said:

Huskaris said:

Good news! I have been so careful with my energy consumption since the end of March that I am actually being sent a refund by EDF, I put it down to changing to LED lights and using less heating, and changing my flow temperature from when the prices went up. 

Vs the same period last year, I have cut my electricity by 25% and my gas usage by a huge 40%

So, on my £294 a month payments, I have been refunded £262. Brilliant. 

Bad news! They have just announced that my new monthly direct debit will be... £501, despite my total bill between April and August inclusive being just £995. 

£995 seems quite expensive as I'd have expected very little heating usage in that period, outside of April mine's been on for 2 days in that period and one of those was testing a new radiator.

I love a bath unfortunately!

So does my wife, every day!

It's worth looking at your hot water tank and how long you have the water heating on for. Mine's a brand new megaflo and I've been surprised quite how well insulated it is. It's a big tank (about 330l) and I have it on for 30 minutes in the morning and 45 minutes in the evening (Gas boiler) and we have piping hot water - my monthly gas usage is about £25, we do have a Gas hob as well within that used every day.

I'm getting quotes for Solar and battery with the hope that after that my Gas usage will be zero outside of heating the house in Winter, the gas hob is being replaced with electric at the moment as we are having a new kitchen fitted.

My gas excluding standing charge is about £45 a month in that period. That does also include filling a 700l hot tub 3 times in that period. 

Wife loves a bath too!

I'd love a megaflo. Water tank is very old. Hot water on for a lot (primarily because my tank is small so can't fill up for the day) but I'm happy with that I think. Like I said, I'd love a megaflo

It's worth looking at a megaflo or similar. I had all the plumbing done and new boiler and it wasn't hugely expensive, especially when I consider in Winter months I'm probably saving well over £250 a month on gas as the old boiler was very inefficient (probably more the way rates are going).

I also needed a big hot water tank as a family of four adults, means on average 1 or two baths and 3 or four showers. It also means everything is mains pressure and no water tanks in the loft to leak!

O you could cut a corner and just get a bigger tank, they aren't expensive.

Fanny Fanackapan

MuttleyCAFC said:

Huskaris said:

Good news! I have been so careful with my energy consumption since the end of March that I am actually being sent a refund by EDF, I put it down to changing to LED lights and using less heating, and changing my flow temperature from when the prices went up. 

Vs the same period last year, I have cut my electricity by 25% and my gas usage by a huge 40%

So, on my £294 a month payments, I have been refunded £262. Brilliant. 

Bad news! They have just announced that my new monthly direct debit will be... £501, despite my total bill between April and August inclusive being just £995. 

Are you sure they haven't just looked at what you are paying and put it up accordingly? Without considering that you are paying too much. I was in arrears and they put mine up to an amount that was too much. I didn't mind as I didn't want to be in arrears but I am now quickly £500 in credit. I didn't want to change anything as I could see the incoming storm but I am half expcting them to put my existing amount up because quite frankly they are not the best communication wise and speaking to a competent person is not easy whereas a few years ago it was.

I've used the online EDF "Chat" feature recently & once an Advisor joins the conversation ( after the robot fails to understand the problem!) I've found that satisfactory answers are given to issues .

The added bonus is that you can save the conversation which is very useful should you have the need to refer back to what was actually "said". 

MuttleyCAFC

Yes, I find the E-on chat feature is the best way and it is similar. Good luck trying to ring somebody.

Lincsaddick

I took a punt last September and went for an EDF fixed tariff until October 2024 .. this doubled my monthly payments and was almost double the unit rate for both gas and electric .. even so it turns out to have been a worthwhile move .. I am supposing that even if the Govt freeze prices tomorrow, the new price will still be above what I'm paying now

AND .. I am sure that this has been raised before .. the electric price is fixed to the cost of the gas which is used to drive the power station turbines .. this means that nuclear and 'windmill' etc. electric, produced at a much cheaper cost than gas generated electricity  is sold to the grid at a greatly inflated price over what are its production costs, ALSO, every consumer is paying a green levy to pay to support 'green energy'

Presumably Liz lll's proposals will sort out these anomalies as well as allowing for new Nth Sea gas and oil wells and reopening or building gas storage facilities. Fracking must be a last resort, BUT if the Ukrainian situation goes on for years and years, this might have to  looked at again

Rob7Lee

Massively subsidise Solar and the electricity problem will greatly reduce. I'm looking at it, with batteries I can likely reduce my use of the grid by around 60% (depending on batteries I go for it could be more or less) and also sell them some! It's just a decent outlay to start with. If the Government subsided a fair chunk I wouldn't even be considering if worthwhile or not I'd be booking it in.

Gary Poole

Rob7Lee said:

Huskaris said:

Rob7Lee said:

Huskaris said:

Rob7Lee said:

Huskaris said:

Good news! I have been so careful with my energy consumption since the end of March that I am actually being sent a refund by EDF, I put it down to changing to LED lights and using less heating, and changing my flow temperature from when the prices went up. 

Vs the same period last year, I have cut my electricity by 25% and my gas usage by a huge 40%

So, on my £294 a month payments, I have been refunded £262. Brilliant. 

Bad news! They have just announced that my new monthly direct debit will be... £501, despite my total bill between April and August inclusive being just £995. 

£995 seems quite expensive as I'd have expected very little heating usage in that period, outside of April mine's been on for 2 days in that period and one of those was testing a new radiator.

I love a bath unfortunately!

So does my wife, every day!

It's worth looking at your hot water tank and how long you have the water heating on for. Mine's a brand new megaflo and I've been surprised quite how well insulated it is. It's a big tank (about 330l) and I have it on for 30 minutes in the morning and 45 minutes in the evening (Gas boiler) and we have piping hot water - my monthly gas usage is about £25, we do have a Gas hob as well within that used every day.

I'm getting quotes for Solar and battery with the hope that after that my Gas usage will be zero outside of heating the house in Winter, the gas hob is being replaced with electric at the moment as we are having a new kitchen fitted.

My gas excluding standing charge is about £45 a month in that period. That does also include filling a 700l hot tub 3 times in that period. 

Wife loves a bath too!

I'd love a megaflo. Water tank is very old. Hot water on for a lot (primarily because my tank is small so can't fill up for the day) but I'm happy with that I think. Like I said, I'd love a megaflo

It's worth looking at a megaflo or similar. I had all the plumbing done and new boiler and it wasn't hugely expensive, especially when I consider in Winter months I'm probably saving well over £250 a month on gas as the old boiler was very inefficient (probably more the way rates are going).

I also needed a big hot water tank as a family of four adults, means on average 1 or two baths and 3 or four showers. It also means everything is mains pressure and no water tanks in the loft to leak!

O you could cut a corner and just get a bigger tank, they aren't expensive.

I’m looking at doing this and adding an immersion heater with a switch that will get it to heat the water when the solar is generating and use gas if required when not. This should give me more use of the solar I generate without getting a battery. That may be worth you considering.

valleynick66

Rob7Lee said:

Massively subsidise Solar and the electricity problem will greatly reduce. I'm looking at it, with batteries I can likely reduce my use of the grid by around 60% (depending on batteries I go for it could be more or less) and also sell them some! It's just a decent outlay to start with. If the Government subsided a fair chunk I wouldn't even be considering if worthwhile or not I'd be booking it in.

That's the problem. Payback is closer to 10 years (I guess) for most so its not a sensible investment for most without significant subsidy. You cant really base on todays energy prices given its so volatile and we don't know where prices will stabilise to / revert to either in my opinion.

Maybe we will see massive investment in solar in our fields etc. (despite that not being like by all) and on commercial property etc as a quicker way of creating energy supplies for the country as a whole & as a step in creating more energy security. Who knows what we will learn tomorrow.

Gary Poole

valleynick66 said:

Rob7Lee said:

Massively subsidise Solar and the electricity problem will greatly reduce. I'm looking at it, with batteries I can likely reduce my use of the grid by around 60% (depending on batteries I go for it could be more or less) and also sell them some! It's just a decent outlay to start with. If the Government subsided a fair chunk I wouldn't even be considering if worthwhile or not I'd be booking it in.

That's the problem. Payback is closer to 10 years (I guess) for most so its not a sensible investment for most without significant subsidy. You cant really base on todays energy prices given its so volatile and we don't know where prices will stabilise to / revert to either in my opinion.

Maybe we will see massive investment in solar in our fields etc. (despite that not being like by all) and on commercial property etc as a quicker way of creating energy supplies for the country as a whole & as a step in creating more energy security. Who knows what we will learn tomorrow.

You could have the amount paid for what is generated track the capped price at a slightly lower level. With high inflation and interest rates relatively low in comparison money sitting in the bank is in real terms losing value.

ShootersHillGuru

Rob7Lee said:

Massively subsidise Solar and the electricity problem will greatly reduce. I'm looking at it, with batteries I can likely reduce my use of the grid by around 60% (depending on batteries I go for it could be more or less) and also sell them some! It's just a decent outlay to start with. If the Government subsided a fair chunk I wouldn't even be considering if worthwhile or not I'd be booking it in.

That’s the rub though isn’t it. It’s a fabulous idea that should be a no brainer for everyone but the reality is that for most households in the U.K. it’s basically a pipe dream. The government must address this with huge investment in subsidies but Truss has already hinted that her policy going forward will be opening up more oil / gas fields and building more nuclear power stations. Last thing the government want is the nation’s households being self sufficient. 

valleynick66

Money in the bank invariably loses value. 

But can you be sure the amount paid for your excess energy will in future be at the sort of level suggested? I’m cynical it will be further down the line  

ShootersHillGuru

valleynick66 said:

Money in the bank invariably loses value. 

But can you be sure the amount paid for your excess energy will in future be at the sort of level suggested? I’m cynical it will be further down the line  

The cap will never drop below the £2500 mark that’s for sure.

valleynick66

ShootersHillGuru said:

valleynick66 said:

Money in the bank invariably loses value. 

But can you be sure the amount paid for your excess energy will in future be at the sort of level suggested? I’m cynical it will be further down the line  

The cap will never drop below the £2500 mark that’s for sure.

Not sure I follow? The unknown for me is whether the current payback for excess energy on solar will always be at a rate that is comparable to today and helps justify the upfront investment. 

Gary Poole

valleynick66 said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

valleynick66 said:

Money in the bank invariably loses value. 

But can you be sure the amount paid for your excess energy will in future be at the sort of level suggested? I’m cynical it will be further down the line  

The cap will never drop below the £2500 mark that’s for sure.

Not sure I follow? The unknown for me is whether the current payback for excess energy on solar will always be at a rate that is comparable to today and helps justify the upfront investment. 

There is a real issue here the rate paid is not a fair one and there is no free market to shop elsewhere. If this was addressed far more people would take it up.

valleynick66

ShootersHillGuru said:

Rob7Lee said:

Massively subsidise Solar and the electricity problem will greatly reduce. I'm looking at it, with batteries I can likely reduce my use of the grid by around 60% (depending on batteries I go for it could be more or less) and also sell them some! It's just a decent outlay to start with. If the Government subsided a fair chunk I wouldn't even be considering if worthwhile or not I'd be booking it in.

That’s the rub though isn’t it. It’s a fabulous idea that should be a no brainer for everyone but the reality is that for most households in the U.K. it’s basically a pipe dream. The government must address this with huge investment in subsidies but Truss has already hinted that her policy going forward will be opening up more oil / gas fields and building more nuclear power stations. Last thing the government want is the nation’s households being self sufficient. 

That’s a bit of a stretch. 

We can’t be without some central infrastructure and hopefully more green sources generally. 

Subsidies AND long term investment is ideal assuming it adds up financially (sufficiently) for all stakeholders.