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England v Scotland - Match Thread
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On the earlier suggestion that Maguire should partner Mings rather than Stones, they are both left sided players which doesn’t give the best balance to a defence.Granted Mings had a good game last night but if he loses his place to a fit Maguire he could feel hard done by however it would be the obvious thing to do IMO. Alternatively as Stones did ok I thought, play all three with attacking wing backs who actually attack 😏.0
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LOL. ITV just said Billy Gilmour was man of the match, then proceeded to show him receiving the ball three or four times and then playing it backwards. Wasn't that exactly what our midfielders were doing all night?10
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Mendonca In Asdas said:I wish we had an English manager who had managed a club that had finished consistently in the top 4 in the premier league, I know we did well in the World Cup in 2018, but we had a easy draw, Southgate is not in the same bracket as Sir Bobby Robson was.
Do you remember the 1988 Euro's when we lost all 3 games to the Republic of Ireland, Holland and Russia, in our Group ?
Robson redeemed his self at the 90 WC.
Agree great club manager.1 -
Apart from Euro 96 we’ve got a trash record in the Euros, Sir Bobby greatest English manager in my lifetime, managed Barcelona, a lot more adventurous than Southgate.soapboxsam said:Mendonca In Asdas said:I wish we had an English manager who had managed a club that had finished consistently in the top 4 in the premier league, I know we did well in the World Cup in 2018, but we had a easy draw, Southgate is not in the same bracket as Sir Bobby Robson was.
Do you mean the 1988 Euro's when we lost all 3 games to the Republic of Ireland, Holland and Russia, in our Group ?0 -
But if you watched the whole match he was man of the match and did more than any England player to deserve it.Off_it said:LOL. ITV just said Billy Gilmour was man of the match, then proceeded to show him receiving the ball three or four times and then playing it backwards. Wasn't that exactly what our midfielders were doing all night?1 -
He’ll have a great future in the game and did ok Dave after he got up to the pace of the game. Early doors I thought rather surprisingly for a 20 year old he was blowing out of his arse 😉.cafcdave123 said:
But if you watched the whole match he was man of the match and did more than any England player to deserve it.Off_it said:LOL. ITV just said Billy Gilmour was man of the match, then proceeded to show him receiving the ball three or four times and then playing it backwards. Wasn't that exactly what our midfielders were doing all night?1 -
Oh I was worried that he was going to be fucked by half time and have to come off but he seemed to weather that and get a second wind and I do believe that his MOTM was fully deserved.RedChaser said:
He’ll have a great future in the game and did ok Dave after he got up to the pace of the game. Early doors I thought rather surprisingly for a 20 year old he was blowing out of his arse 😉.cafcdave123 said:
But if you watched the whole match he was man of the match and did more than any England player to deserve it.Off_it said:LOL. ITV just said Billy Gilmour was man of the match, then proceeded to show him receiving the ball three or four times and then playing it backwards. Wasn't that exactly what our midfielders were doing all night?
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I must have been watching another game.RedChaser said:
He’ll have a great future in the game and did ok Dave after he got up to the pace of the game. Early doors I thought rather surprisingly for a 20 year old he was blowing out of his arse 😉.cafcdave123 said:
But if you watched the whole match he was man of the match and did more than any England player to deserve it.Off_it said:LOL. ITV just said Billy Gilmour was man of the match, then proceeded to show him receiving the ball three or four times and then playing it backwards. Wasn't that exactly what our midfielders were doing all night?
I thought he really struggled to start, kept giving the ball away.
No way he was MotM.
I’d have given it to McGinn.1 -
It's all about opinions of course, but I disagree.cafcdave123 said:
But if you watched the whole match he was man of the match and did more than any England player to deserve it.Off_it said:LOL. ITV just said Billy Gilmour was man of the match, then proceeded to show him receiving the ball three or four times and then playing it backwards. Wasn't that exactly what our midfielders were doing all night?
Anyway, my point was that IF he was Motm then why not show some good things that he did? Unless that was it?1 -
Fair comment mind you it is wasn’t difficult to be better than the English players with Pickford and Mings being the standouts for me.Off_it said:
It's all about opinions of course, but I disagree.cafcdave123 said:
But if you watched the whole match he was man of the match and did more than any England player to deserve it.Off_it said:LOL. ITV just said Billy Gilmour was man of the match, then proceeded to show him receiving the ball three or four times and then playing it backwards. Wasn't that exactly what our midfielders were doing all night?
Anyway, my point was that IF he was Motm then why not show some good things that he did? Unless that was it?1 - Sponsored links:
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Unless I'm mistaken, at HT all the panel were discussing how Gilmour was struggling badly.Off_it said:LOL. ITV just said Billy Gilmour was man of the match, then proceeded to show him receiving the ball three or four times and then playing it backwards. Wasn't that exactly what our midfielders were doing all night?
At FT it had turned on it's head and he was MOM.
It's a case of everything has to be black or white, there's no place for grey.
So it's decided Gilmour is the talking point and therefore he has to be struggling or brilliant, he can't be average or there's no talking point.
Exactly like England, we're either the best and looking to win the tournament or we're utter shite and the manager should be sacked.
The reality is of course we're not in the best 4 in the Euros and Southgate believes he has a plan for us to be more successful than our ranking.
We'll see if he's right or not, no one knows.5 -
Exactly, which is why Southgate is trying a different approach.Mendonca In Asdas said:
Apart from Euro 96 we’ve got a trash record in the Euros.soapboxsam said:Mendonca In Asdas said:I wish we had an English manager who had managed a club that had finished consistently in the top 4 in the premier league, I know we did well in the World Cup in 2018, but we had a easy draw, Southgate is not in the same bracket as Sir Bobby Robson was.
Do you mean the 1988 Euro's when we lost all 3 games to the Republic of Ireland, Holland and Russia, in our Group ?2 -
Souness hitting the nail on the head imo he is basically saying that the England players are not doing what the do for their clubs. Neville trying to defend the current approach wearing his FA team hat lol1
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Kane hasnt played well but this dropping deep nonsense leaves no outlet to create chances. This is best attacking team we have had in a long time and we have to play to our strengths and go for it.
Tbh Gareth Southgate is the main issue. Lucked into an England job he didnt deserve on merit and only got it because hes an "FA man".
Said it before and I will say it again that even if we were to win it then he should go because these talented players wont reach there full potential with him in charge.1 -
I think you’re stuck with him because you do have a large enough pool of quality that it would take some going to have a winless run that would lead the fa to sack him and as long as he’s getting you out the group stages they’re unlikely to sack him if you end up going out to the likes of Germany or Portugalking addick said:Kane hasnt played well but this dropping deep nonsense leaves no outlet to create chances. This is best attacking team we have had in a long time and we have to play to our strengths and go for it.
Tbh Gareth Southgate is the main issue. Lucked into an England job he didnt deserve on merit and only got it because hes an "FA man".
Said it before and I will say it again that even if we were to win it then he should go because these talented players wont reach there full potential with him in charge.0 -
I think Neville made justified points. Our centre backs aren't good enough and need protection. Our defence is a weakness. That's a simple fact which people have been saying for a while now. They are prone to imploding and making stupid mistakes. Also said we don't really have a quality creative central midfielder, and when Souness argued this and Neville asked him to name one, he couldn't so reverted to "it's staggering England can't produce one" (not verbatum).AndyG said:Souness hitting the nail on the head imo he is basically saying that the England players are not doing what the do for their clubs. Neville trying to defend the current approach wearing his FA team hat lol
I'm not happy with the way we play, but the above points are valid.2 -
If we win the Euros for the first time in our history we should sack the manager. 'kin 'ell.2
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Agreed.DRAddick said:
I think Neville made justified points. Our centre backs aren't good enough and need protection. Our defence is a weakness. That's a simple fact which people have been saying for a while now. They are prone to imploding and making stupid mistakes. Also said we don't really have a quality creative central midfielder, and when Souness argued this and Neville asked him to name one, he couldn't so reverted to "it's staggering England can't produce one" (not verbatum).AndyG said:Souness hitting the nail on the head imo he is basically saying that the England players are not doing what the do for their clubs. Neville trying to defend the current approach wearing his FA team hat lol
I'm not happy with the way we play, but the above points are valid.0 -
Totally agree with this sentiment.AndyG said:
Than watch that style of football then yes I would. Let me put it this way, if Southgate had the mentality last night to say to his team just keep getting forward and attack, you think Scotland would be able to live with that for 90 mins ? They were totally comfortable with sitting back watching the ball go sideways and backwards in front of them, ok they might have scored on a breakaway but so what if we are scoring 2 or 3 more than them. It's just boring mate I said the same last season when Charlton were doing the same thing it's just shite even if you win 1-0Covered End said:
You would rather we had better performances but lost the first 2 games and were already out of the competition?AndyG said:
I think you are missing the point mate. Nobody is saying the current points total is bad, they are saying the performances are turgid. The worse thing that could happen has happened imo, England have qualified for the next round playing this brand of shite. We will lose to the first decent team we face but the FA will say oh well unlucky chaps we move on and nothing changes before the WC. People are frustrated because they are watching players who week in week play a totally different brand of football are being coached to be negative. I personally would much rather have lost the 2 games so far if the performances had been better.Covered End said:
This.ValleyGary said:It’s out the way, it’s done. They need to really sit down and analyse the performance and Southgate needs to realise that Grealish has to start. He’s direct, he makes stuff happen.Can’t stand the overreaction tho. Philips is now shit after being a revelation. Kane, albeit poor in both games, is now overrated. Fucking hell, there’s a weird stigma around England where fans have zero patience and expect everything all the time. They wouldn’t for their club sides.
So many ridiculous OTT comments.
We've 4 points from 2 games & haven't conceded a goal, even though the majority don't rate our defenders or keeper highly.
I can't agree with the comments of jealousy and wish Scotland was their team.
This is the Scotland that have to win their last game to qualify and we are already qualified barring some disaster.
Will Scotland be having an open top bus celebration round Glasgow this evening?
The aim of the group games is to get through to the next round and we've almost certainly achieved it after 2 games.
Boring boring boring. I honestly think pretty much any league manager could get more out of this team than is being achieved at the moment. Southgate got lucky at the last WC in that the draw was kind to us as soon as we faced someone half decent we were out
Do you feel the same about Charlton as you do about England?
Are you hoping we play wide open football again this season and let in 2,3,4 goals most games at home and lose more than we win?
Personally, I'm hoping we're set up to win/draw games and get promoted.
Everyone would prefer wonderful attacking football and winning every game, but in the real world that doesn't happen.
No offence AndyG, but I reckon everyone that says they would rather play attacking football and lose would not be saying that when it actually happens.
Personally given the choice, I'm delighted that we're still in the competition rather than having looked great but been eliminated by Croatia and Scotland.
Boring, lethargic, lacking in ideas ......I've never watched a game of Walking Football but our " young guns" gave me a decent idea of what to expect with their passing at the back.
Surely these young players that are so lauded in the press & by their clubs, should be busting a gut to show GS that they should be in his World Cup plans next year ! But, IF they were playing under orders of course......
Still stick by my decision of club over country & last night's performance did nothing to change that one iota.2 -
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If you agree with BG getting man of the match last night or not he’s had pretty impressive competition debutsHis first appearance’s in- Premier League- FA Cup- Champions League- EurosMan Of The Match in all.
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England can only play better going forward - they have to show a bit more ambition.0
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So glad someone else has said this.KBslittlesis said:
I must have been watching another game.RedChaser said:
He’ll have a great future in the game and did ok Dave after he got up to the pace of the game. Early doors I thought rather surprisingly for a 20 year old he was blowing out of his arse 😉.cafcdave123 said:
But if you watched the whole match he was man of the match and did more than any England player to deserve it.Off_it said:LOL. ITV just said Billy Gilmour was man of the match, then proceeded to show him receiving the ball three or four times and then playing it backwards. Wasn't that exactly what our midfielders were doing all night?
I thought he really struggled to start, kept giving the ball away.
No way he was MotM.
I’d have given it to McGinn.Thought he was ok and nothing more. If he was five years older they wouldn’t have been raving about his performanceMcGinn was much better.2 -
Jesus wept, heroes that drew a game they needed to win. They remind me of Gillingham fans when we play them11 -
The reason they are not doing what they do for their clubs is because they are surrounded by quality foreign players, put 11 English players in a team and we are average at best. Saw a poster further back saying we are supposed to be the 4th best team in the world. Laughable, we have won one major tournament and that was 55 years ago.AndyG said:Souness hitting the nail on the head imo he is basically saying that the England players are not doing what the do for their clubs. Neville trying to defend the current approach wearing his FA team hat lol0 -
So we’re agreed, England are a overrated, bang average team?Braziliance said:
Jesus wept, heroes that drew a game they needed to win. They remind me of Gillingham fans when we play them0 -
I forgot about this, it does explain Kane’s performances.
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Overrated? Who exactly rates us? I don't know any nation that rates us and even our fans don't expect much, all the coming home talk is very much tongue in cheek.cafcdave123 said:
So we’re agreed, England are a overrated, bang average team?Braziliance said:
Jesus wept, heroes that drew a game they needed to win. They remind me of Gillingham fans when we play them
We have had an insane amount of excellent players in my lifetime, only maybe France, Germany, Brazil have matched us? Yet I've watched all of them win multiple tournaments & the best for us was a world cup semi final run where we every game was winnable, even the semi. Good players, crap mentality, usually due to crap managers.
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You are right to an extent, you CAN win that approach but the current trend is going the other way.ValleyGary said:Thing is, the defensive formula is tried and tested in the Euros. Portugal won the last one with being hard to break down. Same with Greece. I’d love us to play open attacking football but we knew what we were getting with Southgate.
The Italians have two 3-0 wins under their belts, the Dutch have five goals in two games and the Germans just put four past the current holders.
I could understand his approach if we were, like Greece in 2004, short up front but we have outstanding attacking players but Southgate has not set up the team to use them at all effectively.8 -
That's 6 sentences, all with an exclamation mark. Are you sure that's not shouting in written form?cafc_se7 said:Not shouting at all mate! Phillips was one of our better players on Sunday, out of position!All Rice did was go sideways and backwards! Don’t see the fascination with Rice at all! Phillips role in a Bielsa side is dropping deep to collect the ball and passing forward at speed! Rice is so pedestrian!6
