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England v Scotland - Match Thread
Comments
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It's not aggressive cause it's exactly how the Scottish talk about us, obsessed with seeing us fail. I've witnessed Scottish people celebrating English women's volleyball teams losing nevermind football. Scotland reminds me of Scousers in this country, desperate to completely detach themselves. Do you know how many Scottish people I know that had Croatia flags up and Iceland when we played both of those?se9addick said:
Fine, you can want anything you like, but talking about “shutting them the fuck up” is just unnecessarily aggressive.JiMMy 85 said:No thanks. Edit - to be clear, I’m perfectly calm. It’s entirely possible to be calm and want Scotland to get beaten hard.Surprised at how angry a small nation celebrating getting a great draw with their much larger rival is making some on here. It’s just a bit of fun.
The exact issue I have is Scotland's little sibling mentality, always feel sorry for themselves. The result proves that, people celebrating on the radio, social media over a draw when they have players capable of beating us on the day.
Absolutely obsessed with the English, Scotland don't even cross my mind till we play them or they mention us, I wouldn't dream of putting a flag up to represent the country their playing. Now after seeing how pathetic the reactions are for just shutting us out I imagine I'll be quite loud about it if they fail to beat Croatia12 -
First up, apologies for my hyperbolic tone seeming aggressive to you. It's just how I type, but I can see why you'd take that badly.se9addick said:
Fine, you can want anything you like, but talking about “shutting them the fuck up” is just unnecessarily aggressive.JiMMy 85 said:No thanks. Edit - to be clear, I’m perfectly calm. It’s entirely possible to be calm and want Scotland to get beaten hard.Surprised at how angry a small nation celebrating getting a great draw with their much larger rival is making some on here. It’s just a bit of fun.
Your second line there does, however, ignore my fundamental point which I will try and make again. I've happily supported all the home nations throughout my life. I cheered like mad when Houghton scored. I was sad when Bodin missed a penalty in 93. I was blown away - but really disappointed when Ronaldo ran through the Scottish defence in 98. I've ALWAYS wanted them all to succeed. But something in me changed when I saw that video of the Wales team celebrating the England team's demise a few years back. I couldn't understand the hatred. The players' friends, their colleagues, the people they play with because their own countries don't have quality leagues to play in - and yet they want to see them fail with the vitriol I personally have for Palace. It's mad to me.
Every time a tournament comes along, the prominent Scots, Irish and Welsh figures in broadcasting are at pains to point out how arrogant the English are, how they HATE to see us do well (just listen to Barry Glendenning on any episode of Football Weekly at The Guardian for a prime example), and how much they want to us get taken down a peg or two. To me, that attitude doesn't ring true. I don't even identify with the people playing for my country anymore, criticism of Wayne Rooney or Jordan Pickford isn't personal to me. But calling me/ my fellow supporters arrogant does grate, maybe more than it should. Because it's just not any more true of us than any other supporter base. We don't expect much at all, we have hope - which is exactly what any supporter should have at a tournament in order to enjoy themselves. It's like we're damned for daring to have hope. Like we should apologise for it.
It's a lazy, predictable approach to justify being a bit nasty.
It doesn't have to be that way, but that's the way many non-English Brits choose to be. And as such, I now hope to see Scotland and Wales, conversely, be taken down a peg or two themselves, as the arrogance shown by the Scottish fans since Friday has gone a lot further than anything I've seen or heard from any English people. And the Welsh are among the smuggest fans on the planet.
I'm not angry at celebrating. By all means, if you want to celebrate, fill your boots. I don't think there's much to celebrate from 1 point in 6, personally, which I suppose is why the celebrating has been in this manner. I don't think the Scots have shown an ounce of humility. Quite the opposite.
PS I think the 'small population' thing is a poor excuse for a country steeped in footballing culture underachieving. Success in football has never been directly related to population. The number one team on the planet has a population of 11m, for example. China and the USA have never won anything. It just doesn't cut it.
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I think a lot of the dislike of the English is down to history - won't be changing any time soon.
Most English people probably have ancestry from other UK countries so getting too worked up about it doesn't make a lot of sense.
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Exactly how I feel at this moment. As bad as the performance was, this is tournament football and 4 points from the first two games is very respectable, regardless of the opposition.JiMMy 85 said:
First up, apologies for my hyperbolic tone seeming aggressive to you. It's just how I type, but I can see why you'd take that badly.se9addick said:
Fine, you can want anything you like, but talking about “shutting them the fuck up” is just unnecessarily aggressive.JiMMy 85 said:No thanks. Edit - to be clear, I’m perfectly calm. It’s entirely possible to be calm and want Scotland to get beaten hard.Surprised at how angry a small nation celebrating getting a great draw with their much larger rival is making some on here. It’s just a bit of fun.
Your second line there does, however, ignore my fundamental point which I will try and make again. I've happily supported all the home nations throughout my life. I cheered like mad when Houghton scored. I was sad when Bodin missed a penalty in 93. I was blown away - but really disappointed when Ronaldo ran through the Scottish defence in 98. I've ALWAYS wanted them all to succeed. But something in me changed when I saw that video of the Wales team celebrating the England team's demise a few years back. I couldn't understand the hatred. The players' friends, their colleagues, the people they play with because their own countries don't have quality leagues to play in - and yet they want to see them fail with the vitriol I personally have for Palace. It's mad to me.
Every time a tournament comes along, the prominent Scots, Irish and Welsh figures in broadcasting are at pains to point out how arrogant the English are, how they HATE to see us do well (just listen to Barry Glendenning on any episode of Football Weekly at The Guardian for a prime example), and how much they want to us get taken down a peg or two. To me, that attitude doesn't ring true. I don't even identify with the people playing for my country anymore, criticism of Wayne Rooney or Jordan Pickford isn't personal to me. But calling me/ my fellow supporters arrogant does grate, maybe more than it should. Because it's just not any more true of us than any other supporter base. We don't expect much at all, we have hope - which is exactly what any supporter should have at a tournament in order to enjoy themselves. It's like we're damned for daring to have hope. Like we should apologise for it.
It's a lazy, predictable approach to justify being a bit nasty.
It doesn't have to be that way, but that's the way many non-English Brits choose to be. And as such, I now hope to see Scotland and Wales, conversely, be taken down a peg or two themselves, as the arrogance shown by the Scottish fans since Friday has gone a lot further than anything I've seen or heard from any English people. And the Welsh are among the smuggest fans on the planet.
I'm not angry at celebrating. By all means, if you want to celebrate, fill your boots. I don't think there's much to celebrate from 1 point in 6, personally, which I suppose is why the celebrating has been in this manner. I don't think the Scots have shown an ounce of humility. Quite the opposite.
PS I think the 'small population' thing is a poor excuse for a country steeped in footballing culture underachieving. Success in football has never been directly related to population. The number one team on the planet has a population of 11m, for example. China and the USA have never won anything. It just doesn't cut it.
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Expectations as an England fan are pretty low.Addick_and_Chips said:
Exactly how I feel at this moment. As bad as the performance was, this is tournament football and 4 points from the first two games is very respectable, regardless of the opposition.JiMMy 85 said:
First up, apologies for my hyperbolic tone seeming aggressive to you. It's just how I type, but I can see why you'd take that badly.se9addick said:
Fine, you can want anything you like, but talking about “shutting them the fuck up” is just unnecessarily aggressive.JiMMy 85 said:No thanks. Edit - to be clear, I’m perfectly calm. It’s entirely possible to be calm and want Scotland to get beaten hard.Surprised at how angry a small nation celebrating getting a great draw with their much larger rival is making some on here. It’s just a bit of fun.
Your second line there does, however, ignore my fundamental point which I will try and make again. I've happily supported all the home nations throughout my life. I cheered like mad when Houghton scored. I was sad when Bodin missed a penalty in 93. I was blown away - but really disappointed when Ronaldo ran through the Scottish defence in 98. I've ALWAYS wanted them all to succeed. But something in me changed when I saw that video of the Wales team celebrating the England team's demise a few years back. I couldn't understand the hatred. The players' friends, their colleagues, the people they play with because their own countries don't have quality leagues to play in - and yet they want to see them fail with the vitriol I personally have for Palace. It's mad to me.
Every time a tournament comes along, the prominent Scots, Irish and Welsh figures in broadcasting are at pains to point out how arrogant the English are, how they HATE to see us do well (just listen to Barry Glendenning on any episode of Football Weekly at The Guardian for a prime example), and how much they want to us get taken down a peg or two. To me, that attitude doesn't ring true. I don't even identify with the people playing for my country anymore, criticism of Wayne Rooney or Jordan Pickford isn't personal to me. But calling me/ my fellow supporters arrogant does grate, maybe more than it should. Because it's just not any more true of us than any other supporter base. We don't expect much at all, we have hope - which is exactly what any supporter should have at a tournament in order to enjoy themselves. It's like we're damned for daring to have hope. Like we should apologise for it.
It's a lazy, predictable approach to justify being a bit nasty.
It doesn't have to be that way, but that's the way many non-English Brits choose to be. And as such, I now hope to see Scotland and Wales, conversely, be taken down a peg or two themselves, as the arrogance shown by the Scottish fans since Friday has gone a lot further than anything I've seen or heard from any English people. And the Welsh are among the smuggest fans on the planet.
I'm not angry at celebrating. By all means, if you want to celebrate, fill your boots. I don't think there's much to celebrate from 1 point in 6, personally, which I suppose is why the celebrating has been in this manner. I don't think the Scots have shown an ounce of humility. Quite the opposite.
PS I think the 'small population' thing is a poor excuse for a country steeped in footballing culture underachieving. Success in football has never been directly related to population. The number one team on the planet has a population of 11m, for example. China and the USA have never won anything. It just doesn't cut it.3 -
I may be one of few on CL who watched the game sober and just with the lad. I saw Shaw on numerous occasions get forward after doing one, two's in Scotland's half. No one else's seemed to notice ? As I said earlier James had a different remit from the management because of Robertson and Tierney.
The paradox is Southgate needs to set the team to win against The Czech Republic and create more chances and score goals despite our long term longevity in the tournament possibly being extended by drawing and being second in the group.2 -
Cuts both ways as well we are all mongrels on this island. I understand the cult of the underdog and the industry built around it in the media, but some of the one way vitriol eminating from our fellow British subjects is as predictable as it is boring.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:I think a lot of the dislike of the English is down to history - won't be changing any time soon.
Most English people probably have ancestry from other UK countries so getting too worked up about it doesn't make a lot of sense.0 -
I watched in a pub that was probably slightly more Scot fans than English. I have to say they were all a good laugh, good banter between both sets of fans. Chatted to many of them after the game and many drinks were bought for each other. I'm sure everyone in this thread that has a hatred of our cousins from the north have legitimate reasons for doing so and it isn't based on ideas of how one side views the other.
I'm all for rivalry, it's part of what makes football so great to follow but sometimes it goes too far and hatred for someone who follows another team or is from another country is a dangerous thing. This isn't just aimed at English fans goes for anyone really. By all means support your team, join in the chanting and banter but after the game let's just all have a beer and have a laugh together, a much more enjoyable way to live than carrying hatred in your hearts.12 -
I don’t hate them.I just want to crush them in each and every sporting arena.There is a difference.7
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I completely agree with this but I don't think it's unfair to want Scotland to lose at all. Yes hatred is dangerous, I certainly do not hate Scotland or Wales, either as people or as a sporting rival. But I do want both teams to lose and I make no apology for that. I was in the pub Friday and there was only two groups of Scottish fans but I had a chat with one of them outside after the game. They were a good laugh and there was no trouble whatsoever, but I would certainly enjoy them exiting the tournament on Tuesday.colthe3rd said:I watched in a pub that was probably slightly more Scot fans than English. I have to say they were all a good laugh, good banter between both sets of fans. Chatted to many of them after the game and many drinks were bought for each other. I'm sure everyone in this thread that has a hatred of our cousins from the north have legitimate reasons for doing so and it isn't based on ideas of how one side views the other.
I'm all for rivalry, it's part of what makes football so great to follow but sometimes it goes too far and hatred for someone who follows another team or is from another country is a dangerous thing. This isn't just aimed at English fans goes for anyone really. By all means support your team, join in the chanting and banter but after the game let's just all have a beer and have a laugh together, a much more enjoyable way to live than carrying hatred in your hearts.
I think generally the Scots are a good laugh but they mostly want us to fail. I don't see that as hatred but at the same time it's not particularly friendly so see no harm in feeling exactly the same.1 - Sponsored links:
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Shaw did get forward. For me, Chilwell has a bit more quality. I would have agreed about second place a few games ago, but it seems Group F is up in the air so it is hard to know what is best, so probably best we win and build up a head of steam and see where that gets us. It is possible we will have secured a place in the last 16 by then so nothing to lose by having a go. If Switzerland don't beat Turkey and Belgium beat Finland before we play.soapboxsam said:I may be one of few on CL who watched the game sober and just with the lad. I saw Shaw on numerous occasions get forward after doing one, two's in Scotland's half. No one else's seemed to notice ? As I said earlier James had a different remit from the management because of Robertson and Tierney.
The paradox is Southgate needs to set the team to win against The Czech Republic and create more chances and score goals despite our long term longevity in the tournament possibly being extended by drawing and being second in the group.0 -
It's all about opinions but I don't think Chilwell is a better player than Shaw. Same standard this season. As long as they are given licence to attack who ever gets the nod I don't mind. Just don't play Trippier again at LB.0
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Southgate confirms Kane will start against Czech’s1
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Very little in it I agree. Personally I would have gone with Chilwell because I think he ended the season so strongly. He's also better going forward, so the preferred option against the weaker sides where we should be dominating possession. It was hardly the reason we didn't win on Friday though.soapboxsam said:It's all about opinions but I don't think Chilwell is a better player than Shaw. Same standard this season. As long as they are given licence to attack who ever gets the nod I don't mind. Just don't play Trippier again at LB.0 -
MrOneLung said:Southgate confirms Kane will start against Czech’s
https://twitter.com/henrywinter/status/1406636659865698309?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1406636659865698309%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsimb.org.uk%2Fboard%2Fread.php%3F210522771052277msg-1052277
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Man thinks player that has played in the Champions League for the past number of years has never been in a 'big tournament'.
Jesus christ. Sancho quality-wise is probably one of our top 3 players. And he's talking about him like he's 18 year old Walcott.6 -
Heard Klinsmann talking about Sancho today - very impressed by him.SELR_addicks said:
Man thinks player that has played in the Champions League for the past number of years has never been in a 'big tournament'.
Jesus christ. Sancho quality-wise is probably one of our top 3 players. And he's talking about him like he's 18 year old Walcott.0 -
‘When have you ever won anything with kids….’SELR_addicks said:
Man thinks player that has played in the Champions League for the past number of years has never been in a 'big tournament'.
Jesus christ. Sancho quality-wise is probably one of our top 3 players. And he's talking about him like he's 18 year old Walcott.1 -
Starts Foden both games but Sancho isn't experienced enough?ValleyGary said:
‘When have you ever won anything with kids….’SELR_addicks said:
Man thinks player that has played in the Champions League for the past number of years has never been in a 'big tournament'.
Jesus christ. Sancho quality-wise is probably one of our top 3 players. And he's talking about him like he's 18 year old Walcott.
Man hasn't got a clue about the players he's talking about.4 -
Klinsmann seemed quite surprised Sancho hadn't been given a start...SELR_addicks said:
Starts Foden both games but Sancho isn't experienced enough?ValleyGary said:
‘When have you ever won anything with kids….’SELR_addicks said:
Man thinks player that has played in the Champions League for the past number of years has never been in a 'big tournament'.
Jesus christ. Sancho quality-wise is probably one of our top 3 players. And he's talking about him like he's 18 year old Walcott.
Man hasn't got a clue about the players he's talking about.0 - Sponsored links:
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Yeah he’s chatting out his arse on this one.SELR_addicks said:
Starts Foden both games but Sancho isn't experienced enough?ValleyGary said:
‘When have you ever won anything with kids….’SELR_addicks said:
Man thinks player that has played in the Champions League for the past number of years has never been in a 'big tournament'.
Jesus christ. Sancho quality-wise is probably one of our top 3 players. And he's talking about him like he's 18 year old Walcott.
Man hasn't got a clue about the players he's talking about.1 -
Bloke's a moron. Plain and simple. Why even pick him if you're never going to use him?0
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Same Sancho that has been linked with 8-9 figure moves, played in champions leagues games and one of the most soughted after talents in the world?
Dinosaur of a manager, Bellingham fair enough even then I could disagree, but Sancho?11 -
Sounds like an excuse to shoehorn in his favourite Sterling. I thought we were passed all that nonsense.7
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Is Jadon Sancho the player who improves exponentially because he’s not playing, taking over from Grealish?1
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No he's just a very good player in one of the best sides in Europe.Rothko said:Is Jadon Sancho the player who improves exponentially because he’s not playing, taking over from Grealish?
With all due respect to Grealish, Sancho has proved it on bigger stages than him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fJebQIySik
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Chilwell, Grealish and Sancho all struggling to get a game.
He’s made some really bad selections so far.0 -
It was a major talking point before the tournament how way out of form Sterling and Rashford were. Both have appeared so far. Sancho hasn’t had a sniff.8
