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England v Scotland - Match Thread

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  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,438
    Ormiston_Addick said:
    ValleyGary said:
    Thing is, the defensive formula is tried and tested in the Euros. Portugal won the last one with being hard to break down. Same with Greece. I’d love us to play open attacking football but we knew what we were getting with Southgate.
    You are right to an extent, you CAN win that approach but the current trend is going the other way.

    The Italians have two 3-0 wins under their belts, the Dutch have five goals in two games and the Germans just put four past the current holders.

    I could understand his approach if we were, like Greece in 2004, short up front but we have outstanding attacking players but Southgate has not set up the team to use them at all effectively.
    Southgate is no tactical mastermind and if we're this defensive against Scotland then it suggests we're going to struggle against a decent side.

    We're not creating chances and defensively are we particularly good?
  • walshiesleftfoot
    walshiesleftfoot Posts: 1,207
    Maybe this is why we did not win 
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,896
    DRAddick said:
    AndyG said:
    Souness hitting the nail on the head imo he is basically saying that the England players are not doing what the do for their clubs. Neville trying to defend the current approach wearing his FA team hat lol
    I think Neville made justified points. Our centre backs aren't good enough and need protection. Our defence is a weakness. That's a simple fact which people have been saying for a while now. They are prone to imploding and making stupid mistakes. Also said we don't really have a quality creative central midfielder, and when Souness argued this and Neville asked him to name one, he couldn't so reverted to "it's staggering England can't produce one" (not verbatum). 
    I'm not happy with the way we play, but the above points are valid.
    the lack of creative midfielders or our reluctance to play them has been the problem for 50 years - even the likes of foden and grealish, who gave me some optimism, have been put out on the wings - i'm sure that in spain or italy, their skills would have been directed into orchestrating things in the centre of the park but not in england - instead we put the powerful runners in there - same happened to scholes in lieu of gerrard and lampard and joe cole went the same way 
  • southamptonaddick
    southamptonaddick Posts: 4,054
    Southgate is more worried about losing than trying to win.
    In my view we've, as Charlton supporters, had the same problem with Bowyer.
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,896
    southamptonaddick said:
    Southgate is more worried about losing than trying to win.
    In my view we've, as Charlton supporters, had the same problem with Bowyer.
    agreed - that wasn't a game the other night - it was 90 minutes of trying not to lose 
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,896
    'we set up to stop john magiinn' or whatever his name is !!!!!!!!!
  • Cordoban Addick
    Cordoban Addick Posts: 5,448
    DOUCHER said:
    DRAddick said:
    AndyG said:
    Souness hitting the nail on the head imo he is basically saying that the England players are not doing what the do for their clubs. Neville trying to defend the current approach wearing his FA team hat lol
    I think Neville made justified points. Our centre backs aren't good enough and need protection. Our defence is a weakness. That's a simple fact which people have been saying for a while now. They are prone to imploding and making stupid mistakes. Also said we don't really have a quality creative central midfielder, and when Souness argued this and Neville asked him to name one, he couldn't so reverted to "it's staggering England can't produce one" (not verbatum). 
    I'm not happy with the way we play, but the above points are valid.
    the lack of creative midfielders or our reluctance to play them has been the problem for 50 years - even the likes of foden and grealish, who gave me some optimism, have been put out on the wings - i'm sure that in spain or italy, their skills would have been directed into orchestrating things in the centre of the park but not in england - instead we put the powerful runners in there - same happened to scholes in lieu of gerrard and lampard and joe cole went the same way 
    One or all of Iniesta, Xavi & Messi would have not made it as pros if they had been born in England.

     Things are getting better but even now  they would not be trusted to 'run' games.
  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 5,905
    It will be interesting in our next match if Southgate rests a few of his starters and plays some fringe players such as Sancho, DCL etc and they put in a performance. That would give him a headache re Kane, Sterling 
  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 13,167
    Ormiston_Addick said:
    ValleyGary said:
    Thing is, the defensive formula is tried and tested in the Euros. Portugal won the last one with being hard to break down. Same with Greece. I’d love us to play open attacking football but we knew what we were getting with Southgate.
    You are right to an extent, you CAN win that approach but the current trend is going the other way.

    The Italians have two 3-0 wins under their belts, the Dutch have five goals in two games and the Germans just put four past the current holders.

    I could understand his approach if we were, like Greece in 2004, short up front but we have outstanding attacking players but Southgate has not set up the team to use them at all effectively.
    The Italians have been excellent, but against two really poor teams who may as well not be there. The Dutch have 5 goals but they're a mess and were very, very lucky to come away with a win against a Ukraine team lacking in quality; being 2-0 up against Ukraine and allowing them to level is not a good look. Similarly Austria were despicably bad against them and honestly a good team would have scored more. The Germans did indeed just score 4 (two of them scored by Portugal themselves) past a messy Portugal team who took 84 minutes to score a deflected goal past Hungary. The same Germans who lost 1-0 against a France team that knows exactly how to play intelligent, pragmatic football and are the current World Champions for that reason, and held Germany at bay through strong defending, organisation and counter attacking. This tournament has been swinging in crazy directions from the start, but we're one of the few teams that haven't actually conceded yet, and that's really important along with being clinical and taking your chances when they do come up, which we were in one game and weren't in the other
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,438
    Garrymanilow said:
    Ormiston_Addick said:
    ValleyGary said:
    Thing is, the defensive formula is tried and tested in the Euros. Portugal won the last one with being hard to break down. Same with Greece. I’d love us to play open attacking football but we knew what we were getting with Southgate.
    You are right to an extent, you CAN win that approach but the current trend is going the other way.

    The Italians have two 3-0 wins under their belts, the Dutch have five goals in two games and the Germans just put four past the current holders.

    I could understand his approach if we were, like Greece in 2004, short up front but we have outstanding attacking players but Southgate has not set up the team to use them at all effectively.
    The Italians have been excellent, but against two really poor teams who may as well not be there. The Dutch have 5 goals but they're a mess and were very, very lucky to come away with a win against a Ukraine team lacking in quality; being 2-0 up against Ukraine and allowing them to level is not a good look. Similarly Austria were despicably bad against them and honestly a good team would have scored more. The Germans did indeed just score 4 (two of them scored by Portugal themselves) past a messy Portugal team who took 84 minutes to score a deflected goal past Hungary. The same Germans who lost 1-0 against a France team that knows exactly how to play intelligent, pragmatic football and are the current World Champions for that reason, and held Germany at bay through strong defending, organisation and counter attacking. This tournament has been swinging in crazy directions from the start, but we're one of the few teams that haven't actually conceded yet, and that's really important along with being clinical and taking your chances when they do come up, which we were in one game and weren't in the other
    We've managed one goal against two relatively poor teams and Italy six - they haven't conceded either. They've also created far more chances. 

    There would be more grounds for optimism if our first two opponents had been stronger.

    We simply have to play better.





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  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,033
    Braziliance said:

    Jesus wept, heroes that drew a game they needed to win. They remind me of Gillingham fans when we play them
    Oh for goodness sake, don’t be such a misery. England has 12 times the population of Scotland and, according to the FIFA rankings, a team 11 times better. Of course Scottish social media accounts are going to be very excitable. 

    England will be fine, I went to the Croatia v Czech Republic match at Hampden (and obviously watched the Scotland v Czech Republic match) and whilst they are a decent team I don’t think England will have too many problems beating them and winning the group. 
  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 13,167
    edited June 2021
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    Garrymanilow said:
    Ormiston_Addick said:
    ValleyGary said:
    Thing is, the defensive formula is tried and tested in the Euros. Portugal won the last one with being hard to break down. Same with Greece. I’d love us to play open attacking football but we knew what we were getting with Southgate.
    You are right to an extent, you CAN win that approach but the current trend is going the other way.

    The Italians have two 3-0 wins under their belts, the Dutch have five goals in two games and the Germans just put four past the current holders.

    I could understand his approach if we were, like Greece in 2004, short up front but we have outstanding attacking players but Southgate has not set up the team to use them at all effectively.
    The Italians have been excellent, but against two really poor teams who may as well not be there. The Dutch have 5 goals but they're a mess and were very, very lucky to come away with a win against a Ukraine team lacking in quality; being 2-0 up against Ukraine and allowing them to level is not a good look. Similarly Austria were despicably bad against them and honestly a good team would have scored more. The Germans did indeed just score 4 (two of them scored by Portugal themselves) past a messy Portugal team who took 84 minutes to score a deflected goal past Hungary. The same Germans who lost 1-0 against a France team that knows exactly how to play intelligent, pragmatic football and are the current World Champions for that reason, and held Germany at bay through strong defending, organisation and counter attacking. This tournament has been swinging in crazy directions from the start, but we're one of the few teams that haven't actually conceded yet, and that's really important along with being clinical and taking your chances when they do come up, which we were in one game and weren't in the other
    We've managed one goal against two relatively poor teams and Italy six - they haven't conceded either. They've also created far more chances. 

    There would be more grounds for optimism if our first two opponents had been stronger.

    We simply have to play better.

    Sure, we should have played better against Scotland, but the narrative always shifts around Croatia based on our results against them. At the World Cup it was 'England lose against the first good team they come up against'. Now when we actually beat them they're a poor side. They might have lost a couple of players since we last played them but they're not a poor side by any stretch and they were one of the tougher second seeds to draw. The Scotland match was disappointing but to be honest I wasn't surprised with all the hysteria that had been whipped up leading into the match. Derbies are weird and you don't expect to have to play them in an international tournament. Scotland were unrecognisable compared to their previous game and were bang up for it, and we didn't step up to them creatively. We were excellent against Croatia though, we controlled the game, nullified their threats, were clinical when it counted and never looked like losing the lead. Let's not pretend that that was a bad showing just because we didn't win against Scotland
  • soapboxsam
    soapboxsam Posts: 23,229
    I know I'm an analysis geek when I watch football like I was when I was managing or coaching but the criticism of James not getting forward doesn't hold water when he was under instructions as the main dangers from Scotland were identified as Robertson and Tierney bombing forward in tandem down the left. James had a remit to temper his normal attacking runs and this was his primary job on the night. 

    Shaw had licence to get forward which he did on numerous occasions even though he messed up when he was clear in the box in 2nd half.  Unfortunately England players had the shackles on, and we were inhibited and when your two main strikers are subdued we became mediocre and made a spirited Scotland team look half decent. 

    Why Gareth didn't do a double sub of Calvert-Lewin and Sancho after 65-70 minutes remains a mystery, to wrestle back some momentum as Sterling and Kane were ineffective on the night.

    We have some fantastic young talent and Southgate needs to find a way to get the best out of Foden, Mount and the prodigal  Grealish. Plus our good attacking full backs getting forward to create chances.

    4 points from two games is fine. Yes it would have been better if we had drawn with Croatia and beaten Scotland for local rivalry.

    Carpe Diem Gareth Southgate.
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,438
    Garrymanilow said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    Garrymanilow said:
    Ormiston_Addick said:
    ValleyGary said:
    Thing is, the defensive formula is tried and tested in the Euros. Portugal won the last one with being hard to break down. Same with Greece. I’d love us to play open attacking football but we knew what we were getting with Southgate.
    You are right to an extent, you CAN win that approach but the current trend is going the other way.

    The Italians have two 3-0 wins under their belts, the Dutch have five goals in two games and the Germans just put four past the current holders.

    I could understand his approach if we were, like Greece in 2004, short up front but we have outstanding attacking players but Southgate has not set up the team to use them at all effectively.
    The Italians have been excellent, but against two really poor teams who may as well not be there. The Dutch have 5 goals but they're a mess and were very, very lucky to come away with a win against a Ukraine team lacking in quality; being 2-0 up against Ukraine and allowing them to level is not a good look. Similarly Austria were despicably bad against them and honestly a good team would have scored more. The Germans did indeed just score 4 (two of them scored by Portugal themselves) past a messy Portugal team who took 84 minutes to score a deflected goal past Hungary. The same Germans who lost 1-0 against a France team that knows exactly how to play intelligent, pragmatic football and are the current World Champions for that reason, and held Germany at bay through strong defending, organisation and counter attacking. This tournament has been swinging in crazy directions from the start, but we're one of the few teams that haven't actually conceded yet, and that's really important along with being clinical and taking your chances when they do come up, which we were in one game and weren't in the other
    We've managed one goal against two relatively poor teams and Italy six - they haven't conceded either. They've also created far more chances. 

    There would be more grounds for optimism if our first two opponents had been stronger.

    We simply have to play better.

    Sure, we should have played better against Scotland, but the narrative always shifts around Croatia based on our results against them. At the World Cup it was 'England lose against the first good team they come up against'. Now when we actually beat them they're a poor side. They might have lost a couple of players since we last played them but they're not a poor side by any stretch and they were one of the tougher second seeds to draw. The Scotland match was disappointing but to be honest I wasn't surprised with all the hysteria that had been whipped up leading into the match. Derbies are weird and you don't expect to have to play them in an international tournament. Scotland were unrecognisable compared to their previous game and were bang up for it, and we didn't step up to them creatively. We were excellent against Croatia though, we controlled the game, nullified their threats, were clinical when it counted and never looked like losing the lead. Let's not pretend that that was a bad showing just because we didn't win against Scotland
    Switzerland and Turkey were made to look poor by Italy but neither were seen as poor sides prior to the tournament. We have to acknowledge that some teams have played better than us up to now. 

    I'm sure we can improve but I think we've looked pretty ponderous and I don't understand the way the team was set up against Scotland.




  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 13,167
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    Garrymanilow said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    Garrymanilow said:
    Ormiston_Addick said:
    ValleyGary said:
    Thing is, the defensive formula is tried and tested in the Euros. Portugal won the last one with being hard to break down. Same with Greece. I’d love us to play open attacking football but we knew what we were getting with Southgate.
    You are right to an extent, you CAN win that approach but the current trend is going the other way.

    The Italians have two 3-0 wins under their belts, the Dutch have five goals in two games and the Germans just put four past the current holders.

    I could understand his approach if we were, like Greece in 2004, short up front but we have outstanding attacking players but Southgate has not set up the team to use them at all effectively.
    The Italians have been excellent, but against two really poor teams who may as well not be there. The Dutch have 5 goals but they're a mess and were very, very lucky to come away with a win against a Ukraine team lacking in quality; being 2-0 up against Ukraine and allowing them to level is not a good look. Similarly Austria were despicably bad against them and honestly a good team would have scored more. The Germans did indeed just score 4 (two of them scored by Portugal themselves) past a messy Portugal team who took 84 minutes to score a deflected goal past Hungary. The same Germans who lost 1-0 against a France team that knows exactly how to play intelligent, pragmatic football and are the current World Champions for that reason, and held Germany at bay through strong defending, organisation and counter attacking. This tournament has been swinging in crazy directions from the start, but we're one of the few teams that haven't actually conceded yet, and that's really important along with being clinical and taking your chances when they do come up, which we were in one game and weren't in the other
    We've managed one goal against two relatively poor teams and Italy six - they haven't conceded either. They've also created far more chances. 

    There would be more grounds for optimism if our first two opponents had been stronger.

    We simply have to play better.

    Sure, we should have played better against Scotland, but the narrative always shifts around Croatia based on our results against them. At the World Cup it was 'England lose against the first good team they come up against'. Now when we actually beat them they're a poor side. They might have lost a couple of players since we last played them but they're not a poor side by any stretch and they were one of the tougher second seeds to draw. The Scotland match was disappointing but to be honest I wasn't surprised with all the hysteria that had been whipped up leading into the match. Derbies are weird and you don't expect to have to play them in an international tournament. Scotland were unrecognisable compared to their previous game and were bang up for it, and we didn't step up to them creatively. We were excellent against Croatia though, we controlled the game, nullified their threats, were clinical when it counted and never looked like losing the lead. Let's not pretend that that was a bad showing just because we didn't win against Scotland
    Switzerland and Turkey were made to look poor by Italy but neither were seen as poor sides prior to the tournament. We have to acknowledge that some teams have played better than us up to now. 

    I'm sure we can improve but I think we've looked pretty ponderous and I don't understand the way the team was set up against Scotland.

    Turkey were touted as dark horses for some reason but they’ve been absolute ball bag this tournament. Wales were there for the taking in the second half and Turkey still managed to give them a pen and another goal while barely troubling the keeper. Switzerland are a totally average team, always have been. They’ve got to the Euros round of 16 once ever, and their best World Cup performance was in 1954. Italy have been good against them for sure, but they’re also a pair of teams who haven’t turned up this tournament and aren’t very good. Certainly not the level of Croatia. We’ve had one good performance one bad, and we’ve still got 4 points. Hopefully we’ll play better going forward 
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,438
    Garrymanilow said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    Garrymanilow said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    Garrymanilow said:
    Ormiston_Addick said:
    ValleyGary said:
    Thing is, the defensive formula is tried and tested in the Euros. Portugal won the last one with being hard to break down. Same with Greece. I’d love us to play open attacking football but we knew what we were getting with Southgate.
    You are right to an extent, you CAN win that approach but the current trend is going the other way.

    The Italians have two 3-0 wins under their belts, the Dutch have five goals in two games and the Germans just put four past the current holders.

    I could understand his approach if we were, like Greece in 2004, short up front but we have outstanding attacking players but Southgate has not set up the team to use them at all effectively.
    The Italians have been excellent, but against two really poor teams who may as well not be there. The Dutch have 5 goals but they're a mess and were very, very lucky to come away with a win against a Ukraine team lacking in quality; being 2-0 up against Ukraine and allowing them to level is not a good look. Similarly Austria were despicably bad against them and honestly a good team would have scored more. The Germans did indeed just score 4 (two of them scored by Portugal themselves) past a messy Portugal team who took 84 minutes to score a deflected goal past Hungary. The same Germans who lost 1-0 against a France team that knows exactly how to play intelligent, pragmatic football and are the current World Champions for that reason, and held Germany at bay through strong defending, organisation and counter attacking. This tournament has been swinging in crazy directions from the start, but we're one of the few teams that haven't actually conceded yet, and that's really important along with being clinical and taking your chances when they do come up, which we were in one game and weren't in the other
    We've managed one goal against two relatively poor teams and Italy six - they haven't conceded either. They've also created far more chances. 

    There would be more grounds for optimism if our first two opponents had been stronger.

    We simply have to play better.

    Sure, we should have played better against Scotland, but the narrative always shifts around Croatia based on our results against them. At the World Cup it was 'England lose against the first good team they come up against'. Now when we actually beat them they're a poor side. They might have lost a couple of players since we last played them but they're not a poor side by any stretch and they were one of the tougher second seeds to draw. The Scotland match was disappointing but to be honest I wasn't surprised with all the hysteria that had been whipped up leading into the match. Derbies are weird and you don't expect to have to play them in an international tournament. Scotland were unrecognisable compared to their previous game and were bang up for it, and we didn't step up to them creatively. We were excellent against Croatia though, we controlled the game, nullified their threats, were clinical when it counted and never looked like losing the lead. Let's not pretend that that was a bad showing just because we didn't win against Scotland
    Switzerland and Turkey were made to look poor by Italy but neither were seen as poor sides prior to the tournament. We have to acknowledge that some teams have played better than us up to now. 

    I'm sure we can improve but I think we've looked pretty ponderous and I don't understand the way the team was set up against Scotland.

    Turkey were touted as dark horses for some reason but they’ve been absolute ball bag this tournament. Wales were there for the taking in the second half and Turkey still managed to give them a pen and another goal while barely troubling the keeper. Switzerland are a totally average team, always have been. They’ve got to the Euros round of 16 once ever, and their best World Cup performance was in 1954. Italy have been good against them for sure, but they’re also a pair of teams who haven’t turned up this tournament and aren’t very good. Certainly not the level of Croatia. We’ve had one good performance one bad, and we’ve still got 4 points. Hopefully we’ll play better going forward 
    Croatia and Scotland weren't very good against us however you want to dress it up. For a team supposedly ranked 4th in the world we've shown little or no evidence of it.

    Italy along with several other teams have played better football than us and Southgate as a tactician leaves a lot to be desired. 

    We can undoubtedly play better but at present we carry little attacking threat and I question how well we can defend against better against better teams?


  • Croydon
    Croydon Posts: 12,726
    edited June 2021
    .
  • Braziliance
    Braziliance Posts: 8,353
    edited June 2021
    se9addick said:
    Braziliance said:

    Jesus wept, heroes that drew a game they needed to win. They remind me of Gillingham fans when we play them
    Oh for goodness sake, don’t be such a misery. England has 12 times the population of Scotland and, according to the FIFA rankings, a team 11 times better. Of course Scottish social media accounts are going to be very excitable. 

    England will be fine, I went to the Croatia v Czech Republic match at Hampden (and obviously watched the Scotland v Czech Republic match) and whilst they are a decent team I don’t think England will have too many problems beating them and winning the group. 
    Misery? I wouldn't even bother commenting had they beat us. A draw is something to celebrate if it wins you a title or secures extra time in a tournament. Where you need 3 points and your whole country is just more pleased their rival didn't win it's pathetic.

    Let's not act like they're a team of non league players. They're stacked with premier League players and nowhere near the underdog made out to be, I would argue their squad is on par with Croatia almost and better than Czech Republics. Hardly San Marino drawing to us, then I could understand the celebrations 
  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 13,167
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    Garrymanilow said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    Garrymanilow said:
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    Garrymanilow said:
    Ormiston_Addick said:
    ValleyGary said:
    Thing is, the defensive formula is tried and tested in the Euros. Portugal won the last one with being hard to break down. Same with Greece. I’d love us to play open attacking football but we knew what we were getting with Southgate.
    You are right to an extent, you CAN win that approach but the current trend is going the other way.

    The Italians have two 3-0 wins under their belts, the Dutch have five goals in two games and the Germans just put four past the current holders.

    I could understand his approach if we were, like Greece in 2004, short up front but we have outstanding attacking players but Southgate has not set up the team to use them at all effectively.
    The Italians have been excellent, but against two really poor teams who may as well not be there. The Dutch have 5 goals but they're a mess and were very, very lucky to come away with a win against a Ukraine team lacking in quality; being 2-0 up against Ukraine and allowing them to level is not a good look. Similarly Austria were despicably bad against them and honestly a good team would have scored more. The Germans did indeed just score 4 (two of them scored by Portugal themselves) past a messy Portugal team who took 84 minutes to score a deflected goal past Hungary. The same Germans who lost 1-0 against a France team that knows exactly how to play intelligent, pragmatic football and are the current World Champions for that reason, and held Germany at bay through strong defending, organisation and counter attacking. This tournament has been swinging in crazy directions from the start, but we're one of the few teams that haven't actually conceded yet, and that's really important along with being clinical and taking your chances when they do come up, which we were in one game and weren't in the other
    We've managed one goal against two relatively poor teams and Italy six - they haven't conceded either. They've also created far more chances. 

    There would be more grounds for optimism if our first two opponents had been stronger.

    We simply have to play better.

    Sure, we should have played better against Scotland, but the narrative always shifts around Croatia based on our results against them. At the World Cup it was 'England lose against the first good team they come up against'. Now when we actually beat them they're a poor side. They might have lost a couple of players since we last played them but they're not a poor side by any stretch and they were one of the tougher second seeds to draw. The Scotland match was disappointing but to be honest I wasn't surprised with all the hysteria that had been whipped up leading into the match. Derbies are weird and you don't expect to have to play them in an international tournament. Scotland were unrecognisable compared to their previous game and were bang up for it, and we didn't step up to them creatively. We were excellent against Croatia though, we controlled the game, nullified their threats, were clinical when it counted and never looked like losing the lead. Let's not pretend that that was a bad showing just because we didn't win against Scotland
    Switzerland and Turkey were made to look poor by Italy but neither were seen as poor sides prior to the tournament. We have to acknowledge that some teams have played better than us up to now. 

    I'm sure we can improve but I think we've looked pretty ponderous and I don't understand the way the team was set up against Scotland.

    Turkey were touted as dark horses for some reason but they’ve been absolute ball bag this tournament. Wales were there for the taking in the second half and Turkey still managed to give them a pen and another goal while barely troubling the keeper. Switzerland are a totally average team, always have been. They’ve got to the Euros round of 16 once ever, and their best World Cup performance was in 1954. Italy have been good against them for sure, but they’re also a pair of teams who haven’t turned up this tournament and aren’t very good. Certainly not the level of Croatia. We’ve had one good performance one bad, and we’ve still got 4 points. Hopefully we’ll play better going forward 
    Croatia and Scotland weren't very good against us however you want to dress it up. For a team supposedly ranked 4th in the world we've shown little or no evidence of it.

    Italy along with several other teams have played better football than us and Southgate as a tactician leaves a lot to be desired. 

    We can undoubtedly play better but at present we carry little attacking threat and I question how well we can defend against better against better teams?

    But did Croatia not look bad because we did a job on their creative lynchpin and squeezed the life out of them? If Italy made the teams they played look bad did we not too? I think there’s elements of both poor performance and being controlled in all the games, though Croatia are recent World Cup finalists and the other two are very much not at that level.  But I suppose that’s everyone’s right to see things their way. I guess we’ll see how we defend against better teams and if our attacking improves. I think we’ll probably look better as a counter attacking team anyway so I’m looking forward to us going up against a good side. There’s plenty who reckon Deschamps hasn’t got a clue tactically but he’s a World Cup winner, so maybe we’ll just see how things go
  • JiMMy 85
    JiMMy 85 Posts: 10,189
    I think we’re too defensive and not good enough defensively to deal with the big sides, thus we are  doomed to fail. I just hope we have some fun along the way. 
    What really bothers me is that I don’t know a single Englishman who is being arrogant. In fact we never are. We expect more than we often get, sure, but we don’t think we’re entitled to win anything. We look at the quality countries and know we don’t measure up. 
      
    Yet the Welsh/ Scots cite our arrogance as a reason to hate us. Which, to me, is a lazy, unjustified excuse for them being arseholes. 

    Scotland think drawing with England is a moral
    victory, and while I usually want to see the home nations succeed (they are, after all, England-based players by and large) but it’s their arrogant streak that causes issues. I hope Croatia stuff the Scots to shut them the fuck up. 
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  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,033
    JiMMy 85 said:
    I think we’re too defensive and not good enough defensively to deal with the big sides, thus we are  doomed to fail. I just hope we have some fun along the way. 
    What really bothers me is that I don’t know a single Englishman who is being arrogant. In fact we never are. We expect more than we often get, sure, but we don’t think we’re entitled to win anything. We look at the quality countries and know we don’t measure up. 
      
    Yet the Welsh/ Scots cite our arrogance as a reason to hate us. Which, to me, is a lazy, unjustified excuse for them being arseholes. 

    Scotland think drawing with England is a moral
    victory, and while I usually want to see the home nations succeed (they are, after all, England-based players by and large) but it’s their arrogant streak that causes issues. I hope Croatia stuff the Scots to shut them the fuck up. 
    Christ, calm down. 
  • JiMMy 85
    JiMMy 85 Posts: 10,189
    edited June 2021
    No thanks. Edit - to be clear, I’m perfectly calm. It’s entirely possible to be calm and want Scotland to get beaten hard. 
  • PopIcon
    PopIcon Posts: 5,970
    The England fans who booed were an embarrassment. Due to my heritage I have sat in both the home and away ends at Wembley in an England(mum) v Scotland(dad) match. It pains me to say, but the behaviour by English fans is on a different level of wankerish.

    I have zero bias as I am split down the middle on loyalty. 
  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,454
    I've listened to about 4 different podcasts giving post mortems on Fridays game.
    Broad sheet journalists
    Former players
    Islington hipsters
    Geordies
    Scousers Jocks all amongst the panels.
    Every one on a complete downer. You'd think we've lost 5-0.
    And another thing, every one of them has a different reason for why we lost, sorry,drew!
    .
    I think people need to calm down. It's tournament football, we've got 4 points against a team that knocked us out of the world cup and another one whose sole purpose in life is getting one over the English.

    At least save the wrist slitting for later in the tournament ffs.
  • JiMMy 85
    JiMMy 85 Posts: 10,189
    carly burn said:
    I've listened to about 4 different podcasts giving post mortems on Fridays game.
    Broad sheet journalists
    Former players
    Islington hipsters
    Geordies
    Scousers Jocks all amongst the panels.
    Every one on a complete downer. You'd think we've lost 5-0.
    And another thing, every one of them has a different reason for why we lost, sorry,drew!
    .
    I think people need to calm down. It's tournament football, we've got 4 points against a team that knocked us out of the world cup and another one whose sole purpose in life is getting one over the English.

    At least save the wrist slitting for later in the tournament ffs.
    Podcasts have made me realise precisely how much journalists live in the moment. In order to have a point to make they can only really care about the last game. Because really, for the most part, they should only have something to say when the season  ends! 
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,033
    edited June 2021
    JiMMy 85 said:
    No thanks. Edit - to be clear, I’m perfectly calm. It’s entirely possible to be calm and want Scotland to get beaten hard. 
    Fine, you can want anything you like, but talking about “shutting them the fuck up” is just unnecessarily aggressive.

    Surprised at how angry a small nation celebrating getting a great draw with their much larger rival is making some on here. It’s just a bit of fun. 
  • SouthWest_Addicks
    SouthWest_Addicks Posts: 6,307
    PopIcon said:
    The England fans who booed were an embarrassment. Due to my heritage I have sat in both the home and away ends at Wembley in an England(mum) v Scotland(dad) match. It pains me to say, but the behaviour by English fans is on a different level of wankerish.

    I have zero bias as I am split down the middle on loyalty. 
    Can you clarify please. When you mean booed? Are you referring to the knee or at the final whistle. Thank you. 
  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 5,905
    Listening to talksport this morning for a couple of hours without exception every single pundit was saying the same thing regarding England. Pretty much the same as most are saying on here. Tbh some were more forthright saying the 2 performances so far are just embarrassing. I had to laugh at one question one was asked " what will be the iconic picture from these championships from an England perspective? Every tournament has one so what will be this ones ? Answer was when someone gets a picture of an England full back past the halfway line !! 😂😂😂😂
  • SouthWest_Addicks
    SouthWest_Addicks Posts: 6,307
    se9addick said:
    JiMMy 85 said:
    No thanks. Edit - to be clear, I’m perfectly calm. It’s entirely possible to be calm and want Scotland to get beaten hard. 
    Fine, you can want anything you like, but talking about “shutting them the fuck up” is just unnecessarily aggressive.

    Surprised at how angry a small nation celebrating getting a great draw with their much larger rival is making some on here. It’s just a bit of fun. 
    The result didn’t bother me, it was the performance which angered me. Absolute embarrassment by England. 
  • soapy_jones
    soapy_jones Posts: 21,350
    SouthWest_Addicks said:
    se9addick said:
    JiMMy 85 said:
    No thanks. Edit - to be clear, I’m perfectly calm. It’s entirely possible to be calm and want Scotland to get beaten hard. 
    Fine, you can want anything you like, but talking about “shutting them the fuck up” is just unnecessarily aggressive.

    Surprised at how angry a small nation celebrating getting a great draw with their much larger rival is making some on here. It’s just a bit of fun. 
    The result didn’t bother me, it was the performance which angered me. Absolute embarrassment by England. 
    Spot on.  As if we don't have enough experience following Charlton of not showing up to the party?

    Oh well, on we go.

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