Jonny Williams - now at Gillingham (p47)

ElliotCAFC said:

Dazzler21 said:

What if we signed Cullen or Bielik or Bauer or any number of previous players that are significant improvements on what we have?

No, no former players allowed ever.

If we signed Cullen back we might as well get Steve Brown back in defence etc etc 

I agree - I was always against re-signing Killer because I just knew it wouldn't work out.

Oh wait .....

killerandflash said:

thenewbie said:

I don't want him back, or Cousins or any other former player. Nothing to do with ability or fitness - I just don't think that going back and signing former players is a very good idea.

Adkins is Sandgaard's choice of manager, he was appointed because they seem to share a vision and a model for progressing the club and to me that means we draw a line under the past few years and make a completely fresh start.

No going back to former players. A brand new start with no baggage attached.

A bit of a generalisation. If we re-signed Phillips, Gomez, Konsa, Lookman and Gudmundsson this summer, I doubt anyone would be complaining!

Yes because established premiership players are falling over themselves to sign for us aren't they....

There’s a difference between Cullen who is an obvious step up in quality; to resigning say Cousins who’s career has been on a downward trend ever since he left us, and it isn’t clear he’s better then what we have 

killerandflash said:

thenewbie said:

killerandflash said:

thenewbie said:

I don't want him back, or Cousins or any other former player. Nothing to do with ability or fitness - I just don't think that going back and signing former players is a very good idea.

Adkins is Sandgaard's choice of manager, he was appointed because they seem to share a vision and a model for progressing the club and to me that means we draw a line under the past few years and make a completely fresh start.

No going back to former players. A brand new start with no baggage attached.

A bit of a generalisation. If we re-signed Phillips, Gomez, Konsa, Lookman and Gudmundsson this summer, I doubt anyone would be complaining!

Yes because established premiership players are falling over themselves to sign for us aren't they....

But you didn't qualify it by saying "no going back to players who are a bit injury prone or have struggled elsewhere"

I'm not looking just to re-sign previous players, but I wouldn't rule them out. A number of the players who played for us in 2018/19 and 2019/20 and have left are BETTER than the ones we have now. There's a reason why they got us promoted and had us comfortably midtable in the Championship before ESI screwed us up.

Okay that's fair. Of all the former players LIKELY to be in a position for us to sign again, I would not sign any of them. The players who have improved are now too good for us. The players who have not, aren't good enough that I would have them back over trying new players without the baggage.

If we resign Williams & Chucks, we'd have good options from the bench!

Rothko said:

There’s a difference between Cullen who is an obvious step up in quality; to resigning say Cousins who’s career has been on a downward trend ever since he left us, and it isn’t clear he’s better then what we have 

but the criteria should be whether he is better than what we have, not has he played for us before.

It's an artificial barrier to say "no players who've been here before".

Does Cousins improve us?  Can we afford him?  Does he want to come? Do we want him?   That's all that matters

Dazzler21 said:

What if we signed Cullen or Bielik or Bauer or any number of previous players that are significant improvements on what we have? Players that have and are doing it in the league above and are still well within prime.

If those players that improve us and want to sign are available, then sign them.

Bielik and Bauier would suit the negative idea of us signing crocks, both missed huge chunks of last season through injury. Cullen I'd have back in an instant. Also, Bielik and Cullen were never 'our' players, both were loanees, different from us re-signing players contracted to us who were released or sold because they were not much good or wanted away.

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

Now I'll start by saying that I don't agree with how Bowyer handled things with the players last season, he was definitely too harsh and too public. However, it's very interesting to see what's happened with the players that he couldn't find a place for that some fans were begging to see get a run of games.

Jonny has now been released by Cardiff having not really made much of an impact a league up and he'll probably be looking around L1 again, or signing for a team as a back-up impact player, which is what he was for us.

We all know the sad situation with Maddison, and now he's playing non-league and hopefully getting help with his health.

Deji didn't play a single minute for Adkins before being released and is now looking for a club.

All capable players on their day but it just seems like their day isn't coming around enough anymore and more teams than just us are seeing it. I wonder where they will all end up, but I don't think it will be anywhere near the level we want to be at going forward. Having said that, I'd love if we re-signed Jonny for the squad just because he's lovely.

How's Fosu, Magennis and Lapslie doing? 

Can't pick and choose players that Bowyer booted out the door. 

Well I can, because I'm referring to this season, particularly the players that Bowyer didn't make full use despite a lot of people being very vocal about wanting them to play more as the season wore on. That's why I also didn't mention Bogle, because he went on to Doncaster and did poorly again, but people were wanting him to play less, not more. I'm not trying to turn this into a 'Bowyer did nothing wrong' thread so you don't need to come in listing all his faults, we know what they are. I just found it interesting with those three because there were a lot who thought playing them was the answer to a lot of our problems with creativity and conceding goals, but I think it's starting to look like they're all just in a dip in their careers right now

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

Now I'll start by saying that I don't agree with how Bowyer handled things with the players last season, he was definitely too harsh and too public. However, it's very interesting to see what's happened with the players that he couldn't find a place for that some fans were begging to see get a run of games.

Jonny has now been released by Cardiff having not really made much of an impact a league up and he'll probably be looking around L1 again, or signing for a team as a back-up impact player, which is what he was for us.

We all know the sad situation with Maddison, and now he's playing non-league and hopefully getting help with his health.

Deji didn't play a single minute for Adkins before being released and is now looking for a club.

All capable players on their day but it just seems like their day isn't coming around enough anymore and more teams than just us are seeing it. I wonder where they will all end up, but I don't think it will be anywhere near the level we want to be at going forward. Having said that, I'd love if we re-signed Jonny for the squad just because he's lovely.

How's Fosu, Magennis and Lapslie doing? 

Can't pick and choose players that Bowyer booted out the door. 

Well I can, because I'm referring to this season, particularly the players that Bowyer didn't make full use despite a lot of people being very vocal about wanting them to play more as the season wore on. That's why I also didn't mention Bogle, because he went on to Doncaster and did poorly again, but people were wanting him to play less, not more. I'm not trying to turn this into a 'Bowyer did nothing wrong' thread so you don't need to come in listing all his faults, we know what they are. I just found it interesting with those three because there were a lot who thought playing them was the answer to a lot of our problems with creativity and conceding goals, but I think it's starting to look like they're all just in a dip in their careers right now

I mean the fact that Williams went up to the Championship and didn't impress, doesn't mean Bowyer was right for binning him off in league one.

Plenty of fantastic players in League One have disappeared once they've moved up a league to the Championship. 

Do I think Adkins if he signed Williams would be able to get more consistency out of him than Bowyer did? Of course. 

But if the idea is still to gain promotion then surely that rules Williams out. Because if he doesn't have that extra step to shine in the Championship, that means he's going to have to be replaced when we go up as planned.

That space in the squad would be better served by someone who can step up to the Championship should we get promotion. We have to stop looking at building a squad for this season and think of building a squad for the next 2-3 seasons - and there's not many if any former players that I genuinely feel fit that category.

SELR_addicks said:

thenewbie said:

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

Now I'll start by saying that I don't agree with how Bowyer handled things with the players last season, he was definitely too harsh and too public. However, it's very interesting to see what's happened with the players that he couldn't find a place for that some fans were begging to see get a run of games.

Jonny has now been released by Cardiff having not really made much of an impact a league up and he'll probably be looking around L1 again, or signing for a team as a back-up impact player, which is what he was for us.

We all know the sad situation with Maddison, and now he's playing non-league and hopefully getting help with his health.

Deji didn't play a single minute for Adkins before being released and is now looking for a club.

All capable players on their day but it just seems like their day isn't coming around enough anymore and more teams than just us are seeing it. I wonder where they will all end up, but I don't think it will be anywhere near the level we want to be at going forward. Having said that, I'd love if we re-signed Jonny for the squad just because he's lovely.

How's Fosu, Magennis and Lapslie doing? 

Can't pick and choose players that Bowyer booted out the door. 

Well I can, because I'm referring to this season, particularly the players that Bowyer didn't make full use despite a lot of people being very vocal about wanting them to play more as the season wore on. That's why I also didn't mention Bogle, because he went on to Doncaster and did poorly again, but people were wanting him to play less, not more. I'm not trying to turn this into a 'Bowyer did nothing wrong' thread so you don't need to come in listing all his faults, we know what they are. I just found it interesting with those three because there were a lot who thought playing them was the answer to a lot of our problems with creativity and conceding goals, but I think it's starting to look like they're all just in a dip in their careers right now

I mean the fact that Williams went up to the Championship and didn't impress, doesn't mean Bowyer was right for binning him off in league one.

Plenty of fantastic players in League One have disappeared once they've moved up a league to the Championship. 

Do I think Adkins if he signed Williams would be able to get more consistency out of him than Bowyer did? Of course. 

But if the idea is still to gain promotion then surely that rules Williams out. Because if he doesn't have that extra step to shine in the Championship, that means he's going to have to be replaced when we go up as planned.

That space in the squad would be better served by someone who can step up to the Championship should we get promotion.

Have to gain promotion first. 

I remember Williams seemed to do alright at Wembley in the final. 

Yes but if the plan/expectation is promotion, we've got to plan accordingly. That's exactly my point. A squad that gets us promoted but needs to be upgraded/updated again to be Championship quality is not what we should be looking for. A squad that can hold its own in the Championship with a few tweaks IS what we need - and can be done, because Powell did exactly that.

thenewbie said:

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

Now I'll start by saying that I don't agree with how Bowyer handled things with the players last season, he was definitely too harsh and too public. However, it's very interesting to see what's happened with the players that he couldn't find a place for that some fans were begging to see get a run of games.

Jonny has now been released by Cardiff having not really made much of an impact a league up and he'll probably be looking around L1 again, or signing for a team as a back-up impact player, which is what he was for us.

We all know the sad situation with Maddison, and now he's playing non-league and hopefully getting help with his health.

Deji didn't play a single minute for Adkins before being released and is now looking for a club.

All capable players on their day but it just seems like their day isn't coming around enough anymore and more teams than just us are seeing it. I wonder where they will all end up, but I don't think it will be anywhere near the level we want to be at going forward. Having said that, I'd love if we re-signed Jonny for the squad just because he's lovely.

How's Fosu, Magennis and Lapslie doing? 

Can't pick and choose players that Bowyer booted out the door. 

Well I can, because I'm referring to this season, particularly the players that Bowyer didn't make full use despite a lot of people being very vocal about wanting them to play more as the season wore on. That's why I also didn't mention Bogle, because he went on to Doncaster and did poorly again, but people were wanting him to play less, not more. I'm not trying to turn this into a 'Bowyer did nothing wrong' thread so you don't need to come in listing all his faults, we know what they are. I just found it interesting with those three because there were a lot who thought playing them was the answer to a lot of our problems with creativity and conceding goals, but I think it's starting to look like they're all just in a dip in their careers right now

I mean the fact that Williams went up to the Championship and didn't impress, doesn't mean Bowyer was right for binning him off in league one.

Plenty of fantastic players in League One have disappeared once they've moved up a league to the Championship. 

Do I think Adkins if he signed Williams would be able to get more consistency out of him than Bowyer did? Of course. 

But if the idea is still to gain promotion then surely that rules Williams out. Because if he doesn't have that extra step to shine in the Championship, that means he's going to have to be replaced when we go up as planned.

That space in the squad would be better served by someone who can step up to the Championship should we get promotion. We have to stop looking at building a squad for this season and think of building a squad for the next 2-3 seasons - and there's not many if any former players that I genuinely feel fit that category.

Did no one watch the 1st 3 months of when we were in the championship?

When Williams had other championship, or better, players round him? 

Personally I wouldn't bring him back, but it's not up me. 

Cafc43v3r said:

thenewbie said:

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

Now I'll start by saying that I don't agree with how Bowyer handled things with the players last season, he was definitely too harsh and too public. However, it's very interesting to see what's happened with the players that he couldn't find a place for that some fans were begging to see get a run of games.

Jonny has now been released by Cardiff having not really made much of an impact a league up and he'll probably be looking around L1 again, or signing for a team as a back-up impact player, which is what he was for us.

We all know the sad situation with Maddison, and now he's playing non-league and hopefully getting help with his health.

Deji didn't play a single minute for Adkins before being released and is now looking for a club.

All capable players on their day but it just seems like their day isn't coming around enough anymore and more teams than just us are seeing it. I wonder where they will all end up, but I don't think it will be anywhere near the level we want to be at going forward. Having said that, I'd love if we re-signed Jonny for the squad just because he's lovely.

How's Fosu, Magennis and Lapslie doing? 

Can't pick and choose players that Bowyer booted out the door. 

Well I can, because I'm referring to this season, particularly the players that Bowyer didn't make full use despite a lot of people being very vocal about wanting them to play more as the season wore on. That's why I also didn't mention Bogle, because he went on to Doncaster and did poorly again, but people were wanting him to play less, not more. I'm not trying to turn this into a 'Bowyer did nothing wrong' thread so you don't need to come in listing all his faults, we know what they are. I just found it interesting with those three because there were a lot who thought playing them was the answer to a lot of our problems with creativity and conceding goals, but I think it's starting to look like they're all just in a dip in their careers right now

I mean the fact that Williams went up to the Championship and didn't impress, doesn't mean Bowyer was right for binning him off in league one.

Plenty of fantastic players in League One have disappeared once they've moved up a league to the Championship. 

Do I think Adkins if he signed Williams would be able to get more consistency out of him than Bowyer did? Of course. 

But if the idea is still to gain promotion then surely that rules Williams out. Because if he doesn't have that extra step to shine in the Championship, that means he's going to have to be replaced when we go up as planned.

That space in the squad would be better served by someone who can step up to the Championship should we get promotion. We have to stop looking at building a squad for this season and think of building a squad for the next 2-3 seasons - and there's not many if any former players that I genuinely feel fit that category.

Did no one watch the 1st 3 months of when we were in the championship?

When Williams had other championship, or better, players round him? 

Personally I wouldn't bring him back, but it's not up me. 

Think people's only memories are after Bowyer basically bullied him for months into submission and the bench. 

Big shock he didn't seem to perform for his manager after that. 

FYI for everyone saying he's always injured...he didn't miss a game for us in the 20/21 season for injury according to transfer market and I personally don't remember one? Although I'll happily caveat that by him not getting on the pitch enough as he was always on the bench...

Bowyer asked him to have more effect in the final third and the two games he scored, he was benched the next game. At the time everyone on here was calling it insane so I don't get why there's so much hate towards him given he's shown he can improve on that side of the game he lacked but wasn't given a fair opportunity to consistently prove it and it seems like there were some issues behind the scenes which may have affected performances.

I'd take him back in a heartbeat, provides us something different we don't have and missed after he left when we struggled to break teams down. Remember he supposedly took a paycut to join us after palace released him and was a quality player for us before his knee injury against Derby. Seems like a player that would relish playing under Nigel and one I'd like to see.

Fortune 82nd Minute said:

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

Now I'll start by saying that I don't agree with how Bowyer handled things with the players last season, he was definitely too harsh and too public. However, it's very interesting to see what's happened with the players that he couldn't find a place for that some fans were begging to see get a run of games.

Jonny has now been released by Cardiff having not really made much of an impact a league up and he'll probably be looking around L1 again, or signing for a team as a back-up impact player, which is what he was for us.

We all know the sad situation with Maddison, and now he's playing non-league and hopefully getting help with his health.

Deji didn't play a single minute for Adkins before being released and is now looking for a club.

All capable players on their day but it just seems like their day isn't coming around enough anymore and more teams than just us are seeing it. I wonder where they will all end up, but I don't think it will be anywhere near the level we want to be at going forward. Having said that, I'd love if we re-signed Jonny for the squad just because he's lovely.

How's Fosu, Magennis and Lapslie doing? 

Can't pick and choose players that Bowyer booted out the door. 

Well I can, because I'm referring to this season, particularly the players that Bowyer didn't make full use despite a lot of people being very vocal about wanting them to play more as the season wore on. That's why I also didn't mention Bogle, because he went on to Doncaster and did poorly again, but people were wanting him to play less, not more. I'm not trying to turn this into a 'Bowyer did nothing wrong' thread so you don't need to come in listing all his faults, we know what they are. I just found it interesting with those three because there were a lot who thought playing them was the answer to a lot of our problems with creativity and conceding goals, but I think it's starting to look like they're all just in a dip in their careers right now

I mean the fact that Williams went up to the Championship and didn't impress, doesn't mean Bowyer was right for binning him off in league one.

Plenty of fantastic players in League One have disappeared once they've moved up a league to the Championship. 

Do I think Adkins if he signed Williams would be able to get more consistency out of him than Bowyer did? Of course. 

I'm really not sure that is correct.

Williams was one of our best players in the first dozen or so games. Bowyer used him correctly, just playing him in the Saturday games and then resting him for the midweek games.

It all want wrong when Williams went off to play for Wales and played on the Saturday and Wednesday. For some strange reason - particularly given how Bowyer had been sensibly protecting him - Bowyer then picked him to play the next Sturday against Derby. 3 games in 8 days was too much for him and he went off injured after only about 20 minutes. It was the start of his injury problems with us that he never really fully got over.

I'd re-sign him tomorrow. Maybe its a bit sentimental but i honestly don't think you will get a more skillful player for nothing. And I can only imagine Adkins would man-manage him a damn sight better than Bowyer did. I obviously have no idea if this is true but the stories that abounded that Bowyer had reduced him to tears in the dressing room doesn't imply to me that Bowyer had a clue how to deal with a sensitive individual.

Was talking more his spell for Cardiff than with us. 

Agree he was great with us when managed properly. 

thenewbie said:

I don't want him back, or Cousins or any other former player. Nothing to do with ability or fitness - I just don't think that going back and signing former players is a very good idea.

Adkins is Sandgaard's choice of manager, he was appointed because they seem to share a vision and a model for progressing the club and to me that means we draw a line under the past few years and make a completely fresh start.

No going back to former players. A brand new start with no baggage attached.

not even Josh Cullen?