Jonny Williams - now at Gillingham (p47)

Cafc43v3r

RC_CAFC said:

Could it be the first time someone on the calendar actually comes back before the year is out...

It's for the facts that don't sound true but are.

The Birmingham City manager is on the Charlton calendar, but not the Birmingham City one. 

thenewbie

Billy_Mix said:

thenewbie said:

I don't want him back, or Cousins or any other former player. Nothing to do with ability or fitness - I just don't think that going back and signing former players is a very good idea.

Adkins is Sandgaard's choice of manager, he was appointed because they seem to share a vision and a model for progressing the club and to me that means we draw a line under the past few years and make a completely fresh start.

No going back to former players. A brand new start with no baggage attached.

not even Josh Cullen?

Hardly a realistic prospect. But someone like him is definitely the kind of quality/potential to be looking for, but this time with the hope of a permanent signing if a loanee.

PrincessFiona

thenewbie said:

I don't want him back, or Cousins or any other former player. Nothing to do with ability or fitness - I just don't think that going back and signing former players is a very good idea.

Adkins is Sandgaard's choice of manager, he was appointed because they seem to share a vision and a model for progressing the club and to me that means we draw a line under the past few years and make a completely fresh start.

No going back to former players. A brand new start with no baggage attached.

SCP came back, more than one

cafcnick1992

CAFCsayer said:

cafcnick1992 said:

It never really happens though does it. He's obviously a good player but I can't remember him single handedly turning a game around for us. Cullen, Gallagher and Aribo did that regularly for us.

Guessing you missed the playoffs, then?

You realise you've sort of made my point? He never regularly did it - you've managed to remember one game and thrown it back at me?

List all the good games Josh, Connor and Joe had for us - there are too many to remember.

Cafc43v3r

cafcnick1992 said:

CAFCsayer said:

cafcnick1992 said:

It never really happens though does it. He's obviously a good player but I can't remember him single handedly turning a game around for us. Cullen, Gallagher and Aribo did that regularly for us.

Guessing you missed the playoffs, then?

You realise you've sort of made my point? He never regularly did it - you've managed to remember one game and thrown it back at me?

List all the good games Josh, Connor and Joe had for us - there are too many to remember.

List the chance we have of signing Josh, Connor and Joe - there are too few to messure. 

Valleysarr

The Jonny ship has sailed. Too much baggage.
He will get a Peterborough or Lincoln type gig 

thenewbie

PrincessFiona said:

thenewbie said:

I don't want him back, or Cousins or any other former player. Nothing to do with ability or fitness - I just don't think that going back and signing former players is a very good idea.

Adkins is Sandgaard's choice of manager, he was appointed because they seem to share a vision and a model for progressing the club and to me that means we draw a line under the past few years and make a completely fresh start.

No going back to former players. A brand new start with no baggage attached.

SCP came back, more than one

Yeah, I'm not saying that it can't be done, or shouldn't ever happen. I just don't think that signing former players is a good route to be taking right now.

I'd prefer a team that looks forward to a new start and however good a player may be, going back to players who left before just doesn't feel like it suits that.

Taxi_Lad

cafcnick1992 said:

CAFCsayer said:

cafcnick1992 said:

It never really happens though does it. He's obviously a good player but I can't remember him single handedly turning a game around for us. Cullen, Gallagher and Aribo did that regularly for us.

Guessing you missed the playoffs, then?

You realise you've sort of made my point? He never regularly did it - you've managed to remember one game and thrown it back at me?

List all the good games Josh, Connor and Joe had for us - there are too many to remember.

Joe??????  Ledley or Dodoo ?

cafcfan1990

thenewbie said:

SELR_addicks said:

thenewbie said:

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

Now I'll start by saying that I don't agree with how Bowyer handled things with the players last season, he was definitely too harsh and too public. However, it's very interesting to see what's happened with the players that he couldn't find a place for that some fans were begging to see get a run of games.

Jonny has now been released by Cardiff having not really made much of an impact a league up and he'll probably be looking around L1 again, or signing for a team as a back-up impact player, which is what he was for us.

We all know the sad situation with Maddison, and now he's playing non-league and hopefully getting help with his health.

Deji didn't play a single minute for Adkins before being released and is now looking for a club.

All capable players on their day but it just seems like their day isn't coming around enough anymore and more teams than just us are seeing it. I wonder where they will all end up, but I don't think it will be anywhere near the level we want to be at going forward. Having said that, I'd love if we re-signed Jonny for the squad just because he's lovely.

How's Fosu, Magennis and Lapslie doing? 

Can't pick and choose players that Bowyer booted out the door. 

Well I can, because I'm referring to this season, particularly the players that Bowyer didn't make full use despite a lot of people being very vocal about wanting them to play more as the season wore on. That's why I also didn't mention Bogle, because he went on to Doncaster and did poorly again, but people were wanting him to play less, not more. I'm not trying to turn this into a 'Bowyer did nothing wrong' thread so you don't need to come in listing all his faults, we know what they are. I just found it interesting with those three because there were a lot who thought playing them was the answer to a lot of our problems with creativity and conceding goals, but I think it's starting to look like they're all just in a dip in their careers right now

I mean the fact that Williams went up to the Championship and didn't impress, doesn't mean Bowyer was right for binning him off in league one.

Plenty of fantastic players in League One have disappeared once they've moved up a league to the Championship. 

Do I think Adkins if he signed Williams would be able to get more consistency out of him than Bowyer did? Of course. 

But if the idea is still to gain promotion then surely that rules Williams out. Because if he doesn't have that extra step to shine in the Championship, that means he's going to have to be replaced when we go up as planned.

That space in the squad would be better served by someone who can step up to the Championship should we get promotion.

Have to gain promotion first. 

I remember Williams seemed to do alright at Wembley in the final. 

Yes but if the plan/expectation is promotion, we've got to plan accordingly. That's exactly my point. A squad that gets us promoted but needs to be upgraded/updated again to be Championship quality is not what we should be looking for. A squad that can hold its own in the Championship with a few tweaks IS what we need - and can be done, because Powell did exactly that.

Yes Powell was very good at building on the successful season before but there were still a few players who were exceptional in League 1 but failed to make the step up - Hollands, BWP and Taylor are the three that spring to mind. We should definitely be looking to sign a few that can make the step up, but the priority is getting out of this division, not worrying about staying up and competing in the Championship. 

thenewbie

cafcfan1990 said:

thenewbie said:

SELR_addicks said:

thenewbie said:

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

Now I'll start by saying that I don't agree with how Bowyer handled things with the players last season, he was definitely too harsh and too public. However, it's very interesting to see what's happened with the players that he couldn't find a place for that some fans were begging to see get a run of games.

Jonny has now been released by Cardiff having not really made much of an impact a league up and he'll probably be looking around L1 again, or signing for a team as a back-up impact player, which is what he was for us.

We all know the sad situation with Maddison, and now he's playing non-league and hopefully getting help with his health.

Deji didn't play a single minute for Adkins before being released and is now looking for a club.

All capable players on their day but it just seems like their day isn't coming around enough anymore and more teams than just us are seeing it. I wonder where they will all end up, but I don't think it will be anywhere near the level we want to be at going forward. Having said that, I'd love if we re-signed Jonny for the squad just because he's lovely.

How's Fosu, Magennis and Lapslie doing? 

Can't pick and choose players that Bowyer booted out the door. 

Well I can, because I'm referring to this season, particularly the players that Bowyer didn't make full use despite a lot of people being very vocal about wanting them to play more as the season wore on. That's why I also didn't mention Bogle, because he went on to Doncaster and did poorly again, but people were wanting him to play less, not more. I'm not trying to turn this into a 'Bowyer did nothing wrong' thread so you don't need to come in listing all his faults, we know what they are. I just found it interesting with those three because there were a lot who thought playing them was the answer to a lot of our problems with creativity and conceding goals, but I think it's starting to look like they're all just in a dip in their careers right now

I mean the fact that Williams went up to the Championship and didn't impress, doesn't mean Bowyer was right for binning him off in league one.

Plenty of fantastic players in League One have disappeared once they've moved up a league to the Championship. 

Do I think Adkins if he signed Williams would be able to get more consistency out of him than Bowyer did? Of course. 

But if the idea is still to gain promotion then surely that rules Williams out. Because if he doesn't have that extra step to shine in the Championship, that means he's going to have to be replaced when we go up as planned.

That space in the squad would be better served by someone who can step up to the Championship should we get promotion.

Have to gain promotion first. 

I remember Williams seemed to do alright at Wembley in the final. 

Yes but if the plan/expectation is promotion, we've got to plan accordingly. That's exactly my point. A squad that gets us promoted but needs to be upgraded/updated again to be Championship quality is not what we should be looking for. A squad that can hold its own in the Championship with a few tweaks IS what we need - and can be done, because Powell did exactly that.

Yes Powell was very good at building on the successful season before but there were still a few players who were exceptional in League 1 but failed to make the step up - Hollands, BWP and Taylor are the three that spring to mind. We should definitely be looking to sign a few that can make the step up, but the priority is getting out of this division, not worrying about staying up and competing in the Championship. 

I disagree. If TS is serious about the five year plan we've got to stop trying to build a brand new squad every season. I'm not saying that this season should have a squad that can hold its own in the Championship, but I do think that it should be one that would only require minor changes to reach that level instead of another churn of players next season.

cafcfan1990

thenewbie said:

cafcfan1990 said:

thenewbie said:

SELR_addicks said:

thenewbie said:

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

SELR_addicks said:

Garrymanilow said:

Now I'll start by saying that I don't agree with how Bowyer handled things with the players last season, he was definitely too harsh and too public. However, it's very interesting to see what's happened with the players that he couldn't find a place for that some fans were begging to see get a run of games.

Jonny has now been released by Cardiff having not really made much of an impact a league up and he'll probably be looking around L1 again, or signing for a team as a back-up impact player, which is what he was for us.

We all know the sad situation with Maddison, and now he's playing non-league and hopefully getting help with his health.

Deji didn't play a single minute for Adkins before being released and is now looking for a club.

All capable players on their day but it just seems like their day isn't coming around enough anymore and more teams than just us are seeing it. I wonder where they will all end up, but I don't think it will be anywhere near the level we want to be at going forward. Having said that, I'd love if we re-signed Jonny for the squad just because he's lovely.

How's Fosu, Magennis and Lapslie doing? 

Can't pick and choose players that Bowyer booted out the door. 

Well I can, because I'm referring to this season, particularly the players that Bowyer didn't make full use despite a lot of people being very vocal about wanting them to play more as the season wore on. That's why I also didn't mention Bogle, because he went on to Doncaster and did poorly again, but people were wanting him to play less, not more. I'm not trying to turn this into a 'Bowyer did nothing wrong' thread so you don't need to come in listing all his faults, we know what they are. I just found it interesting with those three because there were a lot who thought playing them was the answer to a lot of our problems with creativity and conceding goals, but I think it's starting to look like they're all just in a dip in their careers right now

I mean the fact that Williams went up to the Championship and didn't impress, doesn't mean Bowyer was right for binning him off in league one.

Plenty of fantastic players in League One have disappeared once they've moved up a league to the Championship. 

Do I think Adkins if he signed Williams would be able to get more consistency out of him than Bowyer did? Of course. 

But if the idea is still to gain promotion then surely that rules Williams out. Because if he doesn't have that extra step to shine in the Championship, that means he's going to have to be replaced when we go up as planned.

That space in the squad would be better served by someone who can step up to the Championship should we get promotion.

Have to gain promotion first. 

I remember Williams seemed to do alright at Wembley in the final. 

Yes but if the plan/expectation is promotion, we've got to plan accordingly. That's exactly my point. A squad that gets us promoted but needs to be upgraded/updated again to be Championship quality is not what we should be looking for. A squad that can hold its own in the Championship with a few tweaks IS what we need - and can be done, because Powell did exactly that.

Yes Powell was very good at building on the successful season before but there were still a few players who were exceptional in League 1 but failed to make the step up - Hollands, BWP and Taylor are the three that spring to mind. We should definitely be looking to sign a few that can make the step up, but the priority is getting out of this division, not worrying about staying up and competing in the Championship. 

I disagree. If TS is serious about the five year plan we've got to stop trying to build a brand new squad every season. I'm not saying that this season should have a squad that can hold its own in the Championship, but I do think that it should be one that would only require minor changes to reach that level instead of another churn of players next season.

Of course, I'm not saying we should build a brand new squad. We definitely need players who can help us get promoted and then be able to make the step up. But we also cannot rule out signing players who we feel might not make the step up if we feel they'll have a strong season in League 1. I also think a rebuild like that is almost impossible in one summer. Expecting us to sign a load of players this summer who are capable of playing the league above is unrealistic, why would they choose us if they can get a championship move? 

thenewbie

It's not necessarily all about having every single player being Championship standard but getting a team that can do more as a team and have a nucleus of players that can be held together is definitely possible. Powell did it and was only undone by poor ownership, which we have to hope won't befall Adkins!

cafcfan1990

thenewbie said:

It's not necessarily all about having every single player being Championship standard but getting a team that can do more as a team and have a nucleus of players that can be held together is definitely possible. Powell did it and was only undone by poor ownership, which we have to hope won't befall Adkins!

Powell also signed players capable of getting us promoted but not longer term aspirations - Hughes, Taylor, Hollands, Euell, Hayes. Lets walk before we can run. 

Chunes

Addicktion said:

FYI for everyone saying he's always injured...he didn't miss a game for us in the 20/21 season for injury according to transfer market and I personally don't remember one? Although I'll happily caveat that by him not getting on the pitch enough as he was always on the bench...

Yeah, he made only 6 starts that season and the rest were from the bench. Doesn't disprove a history of injuries. He's completed 90 minutes just once in the past year. And he's just gone to Cardiff and got injured again.

I may be wrong but I also seem to remember that he returned from the Covid break overweight and unfit, and was left out of the squad for a number of weeks.

Charltonstu

I think we can do better than bringing Johnny back 

hoof_it_up_to_benty

He's  not effective enough on a regular basis and is too injury prone.  I expected  more of him when he was signed and I found him frustrating to watch.

I wish him well in his career.

blackpool72

Johnny was a bit of a mystery to me. 
Whenever he was on the bench I couldn't wait for him to come on.
Whenever he started I couldn't wait for him to be subbed 

Scoham

Interview with The Athletic. I’m not a subscriber, if anyone is would be interesting to know what he says about his time with us.

https://theathletic.com/2617641

MattF

Scoham said:

Interview with The Athletic. I’m not a subscriber, if anyone is would be interesting to know what he says about his time with us.

https://theathletic.com/2617641

Absolutely nothing, it's mostly about his love for Palace with their Amazon documentary due out

cafctom

MattF said:

Scoham said:

Interview with The Athletic. I’m not a subscriber, if anyone is would be interesting to know what he says about his time with us.

https://theathletic.com/2617641

Absolutely nothing, it's mostly about his love for Palace with their Amazon documentary due out

Changed my mind. Hope we don’t fucking sign him. 

PragueAddick

cafctom said:

MattF said:

Scoham said:

Interview with The Athletic. I’m not a subscriber, if anyone is would be interesting to know what he says about his time with us.

https://theathletic.com/2617641

Absolutely nothing, it's mostly about his love for Palace with their Amazon documentary due out

Changed my mind. Hope we don’t fucking sign him. 

Its a crap article. The downside of their policy of assigning reporters to cover certain clubs. 

Scoham

PragueAddick said:

cafctom said:

MattF said:

Scoham said:

Interview with The Athletic. I’m not a subscriber, if anyone is would be interesting to know what he says about his time with us.

https://theathletic.com/2617641

Absolutely nothing, it's mostly about his love for Palace with their Amazon documentary due out

Changed my mind. Hope we don’t fucking sign him. 

Its a crap article. The downside of their policy of assigning reporters to cover certain clubs. 

Clicking on the authors name he covers Palace for them and also writes for the SLP.

https://theathletic.com/author/matt-woosnam/

cafctom

No doubt that documentary is going to spend half its time trying to project their exaggerated  “South London and Proud” nonsense.

Don’t think I can bring myself to sit through it.

PragueAddick

Scoham said:

PragueAddick said:

cafctom said:

MattF said:

Scoham said:

Interview with The Athletic. I’m not a subscriber, if anyone is would be interesting to know what he says about his time with us.

https://theathletic.com/2617641

Absolutely nothing, it's mostly about his love for Palace with their Amazon documentary due out

Changed my mind. Hope we don’t fucking sign him. 

Its a crap article. The downside of their policy of assigning reporters to cover certain clubs. 

Clicking on the authors name he covers Palace for them and also writes for the SLP.

https://theathletic.com/author/matt-woosnam/

Yep I guessed as much, (not the SLP bit). Cravenly designed to promote this stripey film. 

You'd never know from that article that there was actually an S2 of Sunderland til I die, and that in the very final episode of that otherwise mangled series, they managed by clever editing to show how Williams came back to haunt them, and turned the game in our favour (whereas McGeady didnt). I'm sure that Jonny himself would have been pleased by that edit, but we will never know. We do know, though, that whatever other failures people might level at him- or Bowyer - he was the right sub, at the right time, and played a big role in getting us promoted and giving us a fantastic day. For that alone, I wish him the very very best.

Exiled_Addick

Scoham said:

PragueAddick said:

cafctom said:

MattF said:

Scoham said:

Interview with The Athletic. I’m not a subscriber, if anyone is would be interesting to know what he says about his time with us.

https://theathletic.com/2617641

Absolutely nothing, it's mostly about his love for Palace with their Amazon documentary due out

Changed my mind. Hope we don’t fucking sign him. 

Its a crap article. The downside of their policy of assigning reporters to cover certain clubs. 

Clicking on the authors name he covers Palace for them and also writes for the SLP.

https://theathletic.com/author/louis-mendez/

Didn't know @LouisMend had a new job.

MuttleyCAFC

I'd have Williams back because he is a good player for league one. He needs a bit of love but I like his game.

Charltonparklane

MuttleyCAFC said:

I'd have Williams back because he is a good player for league one. He needs a bit of love but I like his game.

He was shite to be fair last season

MuttleyCAFC

He was poorly managed last season. He won't have become a poor player overnight.

Cafc43v3r

Charltonparklane said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

I'd have Williams back because he is a good player for league one. He needs a bit of love but I like his game.

He was shite to be fair last season

No he wasn't.  He was played out of position for half of it.

Like Gilbey has proved playing in the right position, in the right role, makes a massive difference.  Almost every league 1 player is either very good at something and not great at anything else or OK at most things without being excellent at anything.

If Stockley or Wyke were as good with their feet as they are with their head they would probably cost more than Kane and Haaland! 

Williams is an outstanding 10 by league 1 standards and a good one by championship standards.  He is absolutely rubbish by league 1 standards at doing anything else.  If you don't play him as a 10 he isn't worth having.  

As a wise man once said you don't sign Picasso and expect him to play the piano. 

lordromford

Cafc43v3r said:

Charltonparklane said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

I'd have Williams back because he is a good player for league one. He needs a bit of love but I like his game.

He was shite to be fair last season

No he wasn't.  He was played out of position for half of it.

Like Gilbey has proved playing in the right position, in the right role, makes a massive difference.  Almost every league 1 player is either very good at something and not great at anything else or OK at most things without being excellent at anything.

If Stockley or Wyke were as good with their feet as they are with their head they would probably cost more than Kane and Haaland! 

Williams is an outstanding 10 by league 1 standards and a good one by championship standards.  He is absolutely rubbish by league 1 standards at doing anything else.  If you don't play him as a 10 he isn't worth having.  

As a wise man once said you get sign Picasso and expect him to play the piano. 

Wasn’t there a Tommy Cooper gag where he held up a violin and a painting saying he had a Stradivarius and a Picasso - unfortunately Stradivarius couldn’t paint and Picasso was rubbish at making violins - then he smashed them together.
😂