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Star Wars - The Rise Of Skywalker
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And this sounds like a better final film which was ignored
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/star-wars-9-rise-skywalker-leaked-script-duel-fates-colin-trevorrow-a9300661.html
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Yeah my mate told me about this a while ago, still would’ve had its problems but overall would’ve been a much better film. Rise of skywalker just didn’t make any sense, basically every scene was confusing rubbish.Rothko said:And this sounds like a better final film which was ignored
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/star-wars-9-rise-skywalker-leaked-script-duel-fates-colin-trevorrow-a9300661.html1 -
I blame JJ and Kennedy for that. If Johnson had been given all three films I think it would have been incredible. The flaws that exist in TLJ come down to Johnson trying to pick up a bunch of story threads that had not long term goal. What he did with some of those threads - Snoke, Ren, Rey - were great. Finn's arc was fine, albeit not brilliantly executed. Poe's arc made sense but needed to pay off in part 3. IMO the best films come from somebody's burning desire to tell a story, with a beginning, middle and end. Disney's sequel trilogy came from a burning desire to make money out of Star Wars, and the scripts reflected that.thenewbie said:
I can see both sides. If it had been a stand alone film, even one set in the Star Wars universe, but separate from the "main" story it would probably be much more widely accepted/liked.JiMMy 85 said:The Last Jedi is brilliant.
As a film I really like it. But having it be a follow up to The Force Awakens and with such a different view and approach to any other SW movies did not do it any favours.
I'm all for a bit of deconstruction and commentary in the right circumstances but I'm not sure the middle of a trilogy and part of an ongoing series/story was it.
Still, TLJ is a mature, classy piece of storytelling that challenged the audience.
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I honestly don't mean to offend you when I say what I am about to say, Kent. It's not my intention... I just find these kind of geek arguments against TLJ to be pathetic and whiny. For a start, that's not the premise of the film - it's a plot device. The concept of having fuel is perfectly reasonable, it doesn't break any internal logic rules. Not that I think it's worth getting into this.kentaddick said:
Except, the entire premise of the film is that they’re running out of fuel which has never ever ever been a thing in Star Wars. I mean, luke managed to fly a tiny x wing all the way to dagoba. Let’s forget snoke’s pathetic death. It just felt like a Star Wars film by some one who had never watched Star WarsJiMMy 85 said:The Last Jedi is brilliant.
And Snoke's death was the smartest thing anyone ever did in a Star Wars movie. It was so far from pathetic that I cannot take this argument seriously.
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I don't like TLJ, but Snoke's death was a great move and that fight scene afterwards was the best part of the movie. It set up a Kylo vs Rey storyline in the final film which would've been class had they not brought Palps back, which was rubbish.JiMMy 85 said:
I honestly don't mean to offend you when I say what I am about to say, Kent. It's not my intention... I just find these kind of geek arguments against TLJ to be pathetic and whiny. For a start, that's not the premise of the film - it's a plot device. The concept of having fuel is perfectly reasonable, it doesn't break any internal logic rules. Not that I think it's worth getting into this.kentaddick said:
Except, the entire premise of the film is that they’re running out of fuel which has never ever ever been a thing in Star Wars. I mean, luke managed to fly a tiny x wing all the way to dagoba. Let’s forget snoke’s pathetic death. It just felt like a Star Wars film by some one who had never watched Star WarsJiMMy 85 said:The Last Jedi is brilliant.
And Snoke's death was the smartest thing anyone ever did in a Star Wars movie. It was so far from pathetic that I cannot take this argument seriously.
Totally agree with Jimmy on his previous point that the lack of overarching storylines was the biggest issue. The prequels had there share of faults, but the overarching storylines were executed really well, especially in ROTS, and that's what brings people back to the films in a more positive light compared to their original release, something that won't happen with the Sequels.
Hoping/Wishing that Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni get prime creative control over the Star Wars content moving forward, I think they've proved they understand what the audience wants with the Mandalorian.6 -
TLJ is the only StarWars film I have only watched once.
The Force Awakens was what it was, which was fair enough but after that the the sequals were a bit of a cluster.
Its almost like someone wrote the beginning, someone else read it and wrote the middle, then passed it back then the person had to try and correct all the things they thought were wrong.
It's not a bad film, it just does achieve anything or tell a gripping story.
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I mean... That is exactly what actually did happen so you're not wrong to get that impression.Cafc43v3r said:TLJ is the only StarWars film I have only watched once.
The Force Awakens was what it was, which was fair enough but after that the the sequals were a bit of a cluster.
Its almost like someone wrote the beginning, someone else read it and wrote the middle, then passed it back then the person had to try and correct all the things they thought were wrong.
It's not a bad film, it just does achieve anything or tell a gripping story.1 -
I know but it's so obviousthenewbie said:
I mean... That is exactly what actually did happen so you're not wrong to get that impression.Cafc43v3r said:TLJ is the only StarWars film I have only watched once.
The Force Awakens was what it was, which was fair enough but after that the the sequals were a bit of a cluster.
Its almost like someone wrote the beginning, someone else read it and wrote the middle, then passed it back then the person had to try and correct all the things they thought were wrong.
It's not a bad film, it just does achieve anything or tell a gripping story.0 -
Not overly fussed about flaws in plots. What I want from a Star Wars film is to switch off from reality, sit back and enjoy it and I certainly enjoyed TLJ.JiMMy 85 said:
I blame JJ and Kennedy for that. If Johnson had been given all three films I think it would have been incredible. The flaws that exist in TLJ come down to Johnson trying to pick up a bunch of story threads that had not long term goal. What he did with some of those threads - Snoke, Ren, Rey - were great. Finn's arc was fine, albeit not brilliantly executed. Poe's arc made sense but needed to pay off in part 3. IMO the best films come from somebody's burning desire to tell a story, with a beginning, middle and end. Disney's sequel trilogy came from a burning desire to make money out of Star Wars, and the scripts reflected that.thenewbie said:
I can see both sides. If it had been a stand alone film, even one set in the Star Wars universe, but separate from the "main" story it would probably be much more widely accepted/liked.JiMMy 85 said:The Last Jedi is brilliant.
As a film I really like it. But having it be a follow up to The Force Awakens and with such a different view and approach to any other SW movies did not do it any favours.
I'm all for a bit of deconstruction and commentary in the right circumstances but I'm not sure the middle of a trilogy and part of an ongoing series/story was it.
Still, TLJ is a mature, classy piece of storytelling that challenged the audience.
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I agree with this Dave. That’s why I said the Mandalorian was good, but not “ejaculation good”.DaveMehmet said:
Not overly fussed about flaws in plots. What I want from a Star Wars film is to switch off from reality, sit back and enjoy it and I certainly enjoyed TLJ.JiMMy 85 said:
I blame JJ and Kennedy for that. If Johnson had been given all three films I think it would have been incredible. The flaws that exist in TLJ come down to Johnson trying to pick up a bunch of story threads that had not long term goal. What he did with some of those threads - Snoke, Ren, Rey - were great. Finn's arc was fine, albeit not brilliantly executed. Poe's arc made sense but needed to pay off in part 3. IMO the best films come from somebody's burning desire to tell a story, with a beginning, middle and end. Disney's sequel trilogy came from a burning desire to make money out of Star Wars, and the scripts reflected that.thenewbie said:
I can see both sides. If it had been a stand alone film, even one set in the Star Wars universe, but separate from the "main" story it would probably be much more widely accepted/liked.JiMMy 85 said:The Last Jedi is brilliant.
As a film I really like it. But having it be a follow up to The Force Awakens and with such a different view and approach to any other SW movies did not do it any favours.
I'm all for a bit of deconstruction and commentary in the right circumstances but I'm not sure the middle of a trilogy and part of an ongoing series/story was it.
Still, TLJ is a mature, classy piece of storytelling that challenged the audience.
To me, most of the Star Wars productions have been good, switch your brain off, entertainment. Nothing more. I know they’re culturally important and many people are mega-fans, but I just don’t get why, for a lot of people, every Star Wars related production has to be either absolutely brilliant or absolute shit.In my opinion, pretty much the whole franchise sits somewhere in between. (Some better that others, obviously!)0 - Sponsored links:
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Glad its a standalone series, interested in seeing more of the underground criminal networks etc0
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I cannot even think of one mediocre, never mind brilliant character form the second sequel. Whilst as the prequal had LOADS.
I liked the rathtars, porgs and occasionally Maz Kanata, but that was it.0 -
Kind of reluctant to be drawn into this for fear of claims of bias, but from a strictly personal point of view I think BB8, Kylo, Snoke, Zorri Bliss and Babu Frik are all worth a mention and character arc expansion.PopIcon said:I cannot even think of one mediocre, never mind brilliant character form the second sequel. Whilst as the prequal had LOADS.
I liked the rathtars, porgs and occasionally Maz Kanata, but that was it.0 -
Sat down and watched the phantom menace yesterday, think it gets a really bad press especially in comparison to rise of skywalker. Sure it has its problems - the dialogue is absurdly clunky and the cgi shots haven’t aged well (surprise surprise) and every alien character seems to be a racist stereotype, but at its core it’s got a really cool villain, interesting politics, adds some lore that makes some sense and is emotionally involving. I mean it’s all excecuted very poorly but you feel like there’s a good movie in there if only some one but George lucas wrote and directed it. Rise of skywalker was a mess - it reminded me of another jj Abrams project - LOST, in which the final season basically rendered everything before it pointless and it felt like they just forgot what the character’s motivations were.PopIcon said:I cannot even think of one mediocre, never mind brilliant character form the second sequel. Whilst as the prequal had LOADS.
I liked the rathtars, porgs and occasionally Maz Kanata, but that was it.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2zZFtq13c4&t
This illustrates all my problems with rise of skywalker.0 -
kentaddick said:
Sat down and watched the phantom menace yesterday, think it gets a really bad press especially in comparison to rise of skywalker. Sure it has its problems - the dialogue is absurdly clunky and the cgi shots haven’t aged well (surprise surprise) and every alien character seems to be a racist stereotype, but at its core it’s got a really cool villain, interesting politics, adds some lore that makes some sense and is emotionally involving. I mean it’s all excecuted very poorly but you feel like there’s a good movie in there if only some one but George lucas wrote and directed it. Rise of skywalker was a mess - it reminded me of another jj Abrams project - LOST, in which the final season basically rendered everything before it pointless and it felt like they just forgot what the character’s motivations were.PopIcon said:I cannot even think of one mediocre, never mind brilliant character form the second sequel. Whilst as the prequal had LOADS.
I liked the rathtars, porgs and occasionally Maz Kanata, but that was it.
Well. I got Disney plus just now due to me and my youngest trying to.get through the excruciating stream I'd found that was stop/start.
We both loved the first Mandalorian series.
He's been asking me about Leia and Luke's parents. We've watched 4-9 together but I was loathed to go back to the prequels. But now I've signed up we have decided we are going to watch the job lot back to back.0 -
TPM also had possibly the best lightsaber battle of the entire franchisekentaddick said:
Sat down and watched the phantom menace yesterday, think it gets a really bad press especially in comparison to rise of skywalker. Sure it has its problems - the dialogue is absurdly clunky and the cgi shots haven’t aged well (surprise surprise) and every alien character seems to be a racist stereotype, but at its core it’s got a really cool villain, interesting politics, adds some lore that makes some sense and is emotionally involving. I mean it’s all excecuted very poorly but you feel like there’s a good movie in there if only some one but George lucas wrote and directed it. Rise of skywalker was a mess - it reminded me of another jj Abrams project - LOST, in which the final season basically rendered everything before it pointless and it felt like they just forgot what the character’s motivations were.PopIcon said:I cannot even think of one mediocre, never mind brilliant character form the second sequel. Whilst as the prequal had LOADS.
I liked the rathtars, porgs and occasionally Maz Kanata, but that was it.5 -
Easily!! - Was talking to a mate about this recently, the one between Obi-Wan and Anakin was good, but it felt too choreographed at timesLonelyNorthernAddick said:
TPM also had possibly the best lightsaber battle of the entire franchisekentaddick said:
Sat down and watched the phantom menace yesterday, think it gets a really bad press especially in comparison to rise of skywalker. Sure it has its problems - the dialogue is absurdly clunky and the cgi shots haven’t aged well (surprise surprise) and every alien character seems to be a racist stereotype, but at its core it’s got a really cool villain, interesting politics, adds some lore that makes some sense and is emotionally involving. I mean it’s all excecuted very poorly but you feel like there’s a good movie in there if only some one but George lucas wrote and directed it. Rise of skywalker was a mess - it reminded me of another jj Abrams project - LOST, in which the final season basically rendered everything before it pointless and it felt like they just forgot what the character’s motivations were.PopIcon said:I cannot even think of one mediocre, never mind brilliant character form the second sequel. Whilst as the prequal had LOADS.
I liked the rathtars, porgs and occasionally Maz Kanata, but that was it.
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Its one of those two for sure - I think the absolutely epic score for Dual of the Fates could be the decider. Don't think they could have rounded off ROTS better though myselfForeverAddickted said:
Easily!! - Was talking to a mate about this recently, the one between Obi-Wan and Anakin was good, but it felt too choreographed at timesLonelyNorthernAddick said:
TPM also had possibly the best lightsaber battle of the entire franchisekentaddick said:
Sat down and watched the phantom menace yesterday, think it gets a really bad press especially in comparison to rise of skywalker. Sure it has its problems - the dialogue is absurdly clunky and the cgi shots haven’t aged well (surprise surprise) and every alien character seems to be a racist stereotype, but at its core it’s got a really cool villain, interesting politics, adds some lore that makes some sense and is emotionally involving. I mean it’s all excecuted very poorly but you feel like there’s a good movie in there if only some one but George lucas wrote and directed it. Rise of skywalker was a mess - it reminded me of another jj Abrams project - LOST, in which the final season basically rendered everything before it pointless and it felt like they just forgot what the character’s motivations were.PopIcon said:I cannot even think of one mediocre, never mind brilliant character form the second sequel. Whilst as the prequal had LOADS.
I liked the rathtars, porgs and occasionally Maz Kanata, but that was it.2 - Sponsored links:
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If you read the plagueus novel the phantom menace suddenly becomes much better.3
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I did read it and does really add to it, and to Sheev's Machiavellian characteristics. Not canon anymore though I don't thinkCafc43v3r said:If you read the plagueus novel the phantom menace suddenly becomes much better.0 -
Snoke is possibly the most pointless character featured in the Star Wars universe. His arc was at best weak. The other dark protagonist Kylo had no character depth either. The prequels had Darth Maul, Darth Tyranus/Count Dooku, General Grievous and Jango Fett.Pavoren007 said:
Kind of reluctant to be drawn into this for fear of claims of bias, but from a strictly personal point of view I think BB8, Kylo, Snoke, Zorri Bliss and Babu Frik are all worth a mention and character arc expansion.PopIcon said:I cannot even think of one mediocre, never mind brilliant character form the second sequel. Whilst as the prequal had LOADS.
I liked the rathtars, porgs and occasionally Maz Kanata, but that was it.
The prequels have a lot of issues, but the lack of interesting and diverse characters isn't one of them.
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I enjoyed LOST until it became clear that the writers didn't even know where it was heading.kentaddick said:
Sat down and watched the phantom menace yesterday, think it gets a really bad press especially in comparison to rise of skywalker. Sure it has its problems - the dialogue is absurdly clunky and the cgi shots haven’t aged well (surprise surprise) and every alien character seems to be a racist stereotype, but at its core it’s got a really cool villain, interesting politics, adds some lore that makes some sense and is emotionally involving. I mean it’s all excecuted very poorly but you feel like there’s a good movie in there if only some one but George lucas wrote and directed it. Rise of skywalker was a mess - it reminded me of another jj Abrams project - LOST, in which the final season basically rendered everything before it pointless and it felt like they just forgot what the character’s motivations were.PopIcon said:I cannot even think of one mediocre, never mind brilliant character form the second sequel. Whilst as the prequal had LOADS.
I liked the rathtars, porgs and occasionally Maz Kanata, but that was it.0 -
Two problems with this - the final season didn't render everything pointless (although I personally didn't really like the flash sideways idea it didn't undermine anything, quite the opposite), and JJ left LOST 5 years before it ended. But I do agree JJ has a tendency to come up with great concepts but not have a good idea for how they will resolve themselves.kentaddick said:
Sat down and watched the phantom menace yesterday, think it gets a really bad press especially in comparison to rise of skywalker. Sure it has its problems - the dialogue is absurdly clunky and the cgi shots haven’t aged well (surprise surprise) and every alien character seems to be a racist stereotype, but at its core it’s got a really cool villain, interesting politics, adds some lore that makes some sense and is emotionally involving. I mean it’s all excecuted very poorly but you feel like there’s a good movie in there if only some one but George lucas wrote and directed it. Rise of skywalker was a mess - it reminded me of another jj Abrams project - LOST, in which the final season basically rendered everything before it pointless and it felt like they just forgot what the character’s motivations were.PopIcon said:I cannot even think of one mediocre, never mind brilliant character form the second sequel. Whilst as the prequal had LOADS.
I liked the rathtars, porgs and occasionally Maz Kanata, but that was it.
Also, largely agree on TPM. It's certainly got more going for it story-wise than anything JJ managed to do.0 -
I agree with pretty much everything you have said. I also think they got a lot of the casting wrong.kentaddick said:
Sat down and watched the phantom menace yesterday, think it gets a really bad press especially in comparison to rise of skywalker. Sure it has its problems - the dialogue is absurdly clunky and the cgi shots haven’t aged well (surprise surprise) and every alien character seems to be a racist stereotype, but at its core it’s got a really cool villain, interesting politics, adds some lore that makes some sense and is emotionally involving. I mean it’s all excecuted very poorly but you feel like there’s a good movie in there if only some one but George lucas wrote and directed it. Rise of skywalker was a mess - it reminded me of another jj Abrams project - LOST, in which the final season basically rendered everything before it pointless and it felt like they just forgot what the character’s motivations were.PopIcon said:I cannot even think of one mediocre, never mind brilliant character form the second sequel. Whilst as the prequal had LOADS.
I liked the rathtars, porgs and occasionally Maz Kanata, but that was it.
The prequels are generally considered bad for nostalgia reasons. I could write 5000 word thesis on the subject.
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The soundtrack for the second half of Season 2 is on Spotify - would highly recommend a listen as I'd count some of the themes as amongst the best in Star Wars1
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It's not Canon, but "legend" but nothing since has over written it. Great book the best of the star wars ones I have read.LonelyNorthernAddick said:
I did read it and does really add to it, and to Sheev's Machiavellian characteristics. Not canon anymore though I don't thinkCafc43v3r said:If you read the plagueus novel the phantom menace suddenly becomes much better.1 -
I've watched both series of The Mandalorian is the last 2 weeks- really enjoyed it, felt like a space western in the best possible way, like a sci-fi version of The Searchers or True Grit etc, one gunslinger travelling with a youngster & meeting friend & foe along the way etc.
Think it was hugely helped by Din's lack of knowledge of the rest of the Star Wars universe.2 -
The more time passes from RoS the more I look forward to them getting away from the Skywalker saga. It's such a huge sandbox to tell stories in, there's no need to tie them down to a such a small bunch of people! Especially as JJ has fucked it now.4
