Wigan financial woes - up for sale again? p40

Rothko said:

https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2020/07/07/club-statement-wigan-warriors-and-wigan-athletic/

Sounds a very smart idea to have both Wigan Athletic and Wigan Warriors under the same ownership

LenGlover said:

The overriding factor is WHO has committed the offence and any negative repercussions or publicity arising for the ruling body if punishment is meted.

We see this in all walks of life now not just corrupt, incompetent bodies like the football governing bodies.

It will not surprise me in the slightest to see any punishment for Wigan deferred until next season and Sheffield Wednesday will probably walk away scot free.

You sound a bit like trump for blaming the world health organisation! 

Cafc43v3r said:

I actually have a lot of sympathy with the EFL here because they can't win, what ever they do. 

Do the fans, players and staff deserve -12 points, through no fault of there own?  Of course they don't.

At the same time if they wave the deduction not only would it open legal challenges from who ever gets relegated instead of them but it would say "the rules aren't the rules unless we say so on a case by case basis".

If you "let Wigan off" you open it up to a whole host of ways to abuse it.

Also if Wigan are such a well run club, how comes they can't complete the rest of the season with out a wip round?  The owner only withdrew funding, didn't empty the bank account, from what I understand.   If they can't play 5 games without a cash injection how were they well run? 

This.

In effect they are in the same position as they were at the start of the month. If they couldnt afford to pay wages then that that is mis-management. Nothing to do with Covid otherwise 91 other clubs would be doing the same thing.

Also? Covid hit the UK in March & the season stopped early in the month. All this was known before the new owners bought the club. 

I do think something dodgy has gone on......maybe there is a betting scam, maybe not. But the EFL rules are pretty clear  - if you enter into Administration there is a 12 point deduction. A bit like not satisfying the source & sustainability test. For that you have a transfer embargo. I didnt see us throw our toys out of the pram & appeal. We were massively hampered from January onwards with injuries & could have done with half a dozen new players. If we had strengthend then we wouldn't probably be sitting just outside the bottom 3.

Actions have consequences.

There are a lot of indebted clubs that would love the EFL to refuse to sanction Wigan as it would set a precedent and allow them to go into voluntary administration themselves. I wouldn't count on the EFL doing us any favours.

SantaClaus said:

There are a lot of indebted clubs that would love the EFL to refuse to sanction Wigan as it would set a precedent and allow them to go into voluntary administration themselves. I wouldn't count on the EFL doing us any favours.

I still wouldn't be supprised if dozens of league 1 and 2 clubs still do before the start of next season. 

stevexreeve said:

PragueAddick said:

stevexreeve said:

PragueAddick said:

stevexreeve said:

Politicians make company law and are totally responsible for this shit. 

Asking for enquiries and blaming other people is not what they need to be doing now.   

Lisa Nandy and Andy Burnham - sort this out - it's your fault.

It’s Andy Burnham’s fault?? The same Andy Burnham, an Everton fan, who is shown in the documentary “Hillsborough - never forgotten” as being the politician who returned to London and told his bosses that the people of Liverpool must be served justice? 

As for Lisa Nandy she has done her job as an MP. She has spoken out and got national attention for Wigan’s plight. I regret to say that in our case messrs Pennycook and Efford have been silent recently. But of course the latter is an effing Spanner. Maybe my mistake when writing to him was to emphasise the Romanian money launderer. Far more effective to point out that if Charlton go down or bust, the Spanners lose their 6 point guarantee. I will try that on him.

I have nothing against these two particularly and Andy Burnham is definitely one of our better politicians.

BUT I prefer leaders who stand up and say things like "This is OUR fault - WE must do something about it".

We have discovered that the EFL cannot do absolutely anything about bad owners except deduct points or expel the team from the league. 

Now we are suggesting that they don't do either of these things because "somebody" should have prevented the sale "somehow". So let's blame "somebody" for the problem.

This is OUR fault - WE must do something about it

If you mean OUR fault, as in all of us fans who just accept the whole shit structure of English football, rather than organising mass protests and harassing their politicians to get that structure changed, then I agree with you. I fear that that is not what you meant. Are you familiar for example with the Bill that Clive Efford tried and failed to get through Parliament, or all the reform work Damian Collins tried to push through when he was at DCMS? If not, then dont worry as I guess 95% of other Lifers are not either. And thats the problem. Politicians need to feel  popular pressure and support from voters for such changes, because after all they will be going against the interests fo entire countries ( Abu Dhabi) as well as Russian economic hustlers and very English pornbrokers.

Over the past few months, I've learnt that it appears possible to

1) Buy a company for nothing.

2) Lend money to the company.

3) Take all that money as salary / payments to yourself and spend it how you want.

4) Put the company into administration.

5) Claim the company owes you the money which you lent it!

The whole system seems wrong - not just football. Trying to blame the EFL or any organisation / individual  is pointless. We need to change the laws of the land to stop it happening.

So it's down to us as voters if we want to do something about it. 

Sorry to rain on your parade but the problem is there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing any of 1 to 4.  In turn:

1.  Well not funds-free but you can set up a company for next to nothing. Plus the Companies House fee of £12.  You can even go for the seemingly prestigious PLC for a mere £12,500!
2.  Many small companies do not and cannot operate without being in receipt of loans from their directors.  (The hope being that down the road they will make a profit and the money will be repaid.)
3.  If the "assets" of the business are intangible and maybe only consist of the expertise of its staff/directors and precious little else it would be entirely appropriate to spend the money on expenses, salary, etc.
4. Yes, well, that facility has to be available for any number of legitimate reasons.  Like Covid-19 for example.

So, you can't really change these things.  Of course the problem comes when people manipulate facilities which have to be available to run almost any business.  You have to hope that various pieces of legislation act as a back-stop.

Then on to point 5.  Well good luck trying to claim any of the money back after the administrators/liquidators/Official Receiver have taken their not inconsiderable slice for the work they have undertaken.

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

1. Only being paid 20% of their wages has surely got to affect players morale and desire to win games.

Not necessarily, players may have loyalty to the fans or the town (yes it does exist), or might feel aggrieved by how the club has been treated and be extra motivated

And it's not as if it's a long period, in a month's time they'll be able to move to another club and what better way of showcasing your talent than by playing well in the remaining games. Play well, earning the respect of the Wigan fans, and earn a move to a richer club

bazjonster said:

https://talksport.com/radio/listen-again/1594112400/

Wigan 'administrator', Paul Stanley, on with White and Jordan. Starts at about  -12.30.

His boss Krasner has just been on BBC North West confirming that they have appealed and that three prospective owners have already provided them (the administrators) with proof of funds. Naturally any prospective owner will want the appeal lodged.

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Wigan Athletic administrator Gerald Krasner has said the club have appealed against their 12-point deduction for going into administration.

The Football League said the punishment would apply this season if Wigan avoided finishing in the bottom three.

"The only grounds we have for this is 'force majeure'. My reading of it is, that applied to anything outside what we could have expected," said Krasner.

"This situation was totally unexpected, so we believe this case applies."

Force majeure events are usually defined as certain acts, events or circumstances beyond the control of the involved parties, such as natural disasters, war or a pandemic.

Krasner confirmed 75 support staff were made redundant on Monday and that senior club executives have agreed to work for nothing until the situation is resolved.

He also said all furloughed staff were being paid in full on Tuesday, with the first-team squad getting 20% of their salaries.

So 2 thoughts here:

1. Only being paid 20% of their wages has surely got to affect players morale and desire to win games.

2. How can they claim force majeure when the owner took them over during the shut down and put them into admin when games had resumed?

Krasner is misinterpreting Force Majeure ... it cannot apply in these circumstances in the way he has outlined. 

stonemuse said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Wigan Athletic administrator Gerald Krasner has said the club have appealed against their 12-point deduction for going into administration.

The Football League said the punishment would apply this season if Wigan avoided finishing in the bottom three.

"The only grounds we have for this is 'force majeure'. My reading of it is, that applied to anything outside what we could have expected," said Krasner.

"This situation was totally unexpected, so we believe this case applies."

Force majeure events are usually defined as certain acts, events or circumstances beyond the control of the involved parties, such as natural disasters, war or a pandemic.

Krasner confirmed 75 support staff were made redundant on Monday and that senior club executives have agreed to work for nothing until the situation is resolved.

He also said all furloughed staff were being paid in full on Tuesday, with the first-team squad getting 20% of their salaries.

So 2 thoughts here:

1. Only being paid 20% of their wages has surely got to affect players morale and desire to win games.

2. How can they claim force majeure when the owner took them over during the shut down and put them into admin when games had resumed?

Krasner is misinterpreting Force Majeure ... it cannot apply in these circumstances in the way he has outlined. 

In fact, I see no way in which Force Majeure can apply at all. This appeal will fail. 

Double the penalty to -24 points.

Frivolous appeal.

What would stop esi putting us into administration, or any owner doing the same to reduce the debt, buy back for £1 and sell for £1m? Appeal the points deduction based on force majure

Henry Irving said:

Todds_right_hook said:

What would stop esi putting us into administration, or any owner doing the same to reduce the debt, buy back for £1 and sell for £1m? Appeal the points deduction based on force majure

Nothing but the 12 deduction which is why it seems very unlikely that Wigan will win any appeal.

Plus the club doesn't have that much debt and the wages are being paid even if we don't know by who?

I wouldn't have thought an administrator would sell it for £1 though Henners there's the lease, playing squad, the golden share will all be worth something no? Mind you that could get absorbed by the charge I thought Duchatelet took from ESI not to mention the former directors and the Administrator's fees.